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Niveus |
Posted:
Jul 6 2004, 11:39 AM
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 76 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
in my quests i made 3 rules 1) every time on of the channlers in a bond gains level they make a will save vs the other channlers in a bond whoever has the highest gains control of the bond and a check is also made whenever the channler needs to make a will save for madness 2) Balance scale the rating every time a madness rating is rolled it is divided equally among all the Warders and Aes Sedai if the number will not divide evenly 1 point goes to the one in control of the bond and all other memebers make a will save and the madness goes from lowest to highest untill all are gone. 3) whoever is being compelld gains a +1 vs compulsion for every 5 points of madness on the one in control of the bond -------------------- ![]() |
Zinuk |
Posted:
Jul 12 2004, 07:26 PM
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 51 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
To add an element to this debate, here is a quote from the end of CoT, Chap 30, p 811 (paperback edition):
So it is possible that the wife bond was designed without the compulsion element but that, afterwards, some Asha'man figured out how to put the compulsion element in it, not changing the need to perform the kiss to weave the bond: if Aes Sedai figured out how to put the compulsion element in it, there is no reason why Asha'man shouldn't be able to figure it out too. This, of course, still doesn't explain why Rand can't be controlled by the compulsion aspect of the bond. I'd like also to mention that RJ speaks of the bond in the "Question of week" available here. For easy reference, here is what he says:
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shaun |
Posted:
Jul 13 2004, 03:01 PM
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Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 23 Member No.: 81 Joined: 7-February 04 ![]() |
None of you even came close to as why Alanna couldn't
compell Rand. He was holding on to the source when she tried, once that
didn't work she didn't think of trying again as she thought it wouldn't
work. I can't remember the exact quote, partly because I am no good at
remembering names, but when one of the male forsaken traveled to see the
one that uses compulsion on all her servants he held onto sadin so she
couldn't use compulsion on him. (possibly Bk 6, not sure though) he said
something like
I am not sure of the exact wording of the first bit but it gives the gist of it, though the bold part I am pretty sure is word perfect. Just don't let any PC's know (or if you are one forget it) just whenever a PC tries to use compulsion on annother channeler make sure that they know you are making a secret dice roll (you could even chek the two characters caracter sheets if you realy want to keep them guessing), ignore the result of the roll you made and work it out on weather the recipiant is embrasing the source or not. By the way I think the proposed way to bond the Asha'man was to justremove any of the sharing emotions, bar effects if they die on you etc. elements so that all that was left was posibly sencing their direction/distance and the ability to compell them easily | ||
Aleshandre |
Posted:
Jul 13 2004, 04:21 PM
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 179 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Well, the mystery is solved then. Male
channeler/warders can be compelled unless they are holding Saidin.
Likewise, Female channelers can't be compelled through the bond if they
are holding Saidar, but since all of the Aes Sedai who were bonded were
ordered (and compelled) not to channel, except under specific
circumstances, so since those circumstances are controlled, every order
given through the compulsion aspect is done while the women are not
holding Saidar. Thus, logically, both bonds are identical, but they appear
to be different to all people who have been involved in those bonds.
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Sharn Penndroen |
Posted:
Jul 13 2004, 06:55 PM
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 287 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Shaun, if you didn't notice, The Great Skwid gave a
link to the FAQ. If you read that FAQ it presents what you said as a
theory. It sites, Sammel (I think) when he visites Grendal. He
talks about her being good with Compulsion and he continues holding
Saidin. He says that it would afford him some protection. That is his
belief and it is probably accurate being that he is from the Age of
Legends. Here is the actual quote you were thinking about and the extra
bit from the FAQ that Skwid gave us.
As I've said before, I do not believe this to be a sufficient explaination as to why Rand is not compelled by Alana. It probably has a lot to do with ta'vern. Rand is not always holding Saidin. We don't know that Alana has tried to compell him again, but it is probable that she tried more than just once. This quote was also talking about Compulsion in general and not just that element of the Warder Bond. Keep in mind that theories are only theories, until RJ makes them fact. This post has been edited by Sharn Penndroen on Jul 13 2004, 07:00 PM -------------------- It's like the blank stares of a million pairs of
blind eyes. | ||
Zarozynia |
Posted:
Jul 13 2004, 09:25 PM
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 230 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
well, my male channeler is officially bonded, he
totally walked into that one. ![]() ![]() Basically, what I'm looking at right now is that its a normal warder bond, with a few added benefits, for him anyways. Each time that he levels, I'm going to split his madness rating between the two of them, as it seems like she would go mad as well, and her sanity (in the beginning) might keep him from going mad, at least for a little while. I'm allowing for her to try to control him, but with his high will save, it wil be fairly difficult (I assume). Although if he keeps rolling 1s when he has to roll for something like this, she'll have him eating out of her hand in no time! ![]() I love the "truthfullness" of the Aes Sedai, really I do! -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource with backgrounds, feats, house rules, a vit/wound point system and an Age of Legends campaign setting (in the works) |
Zinuk |
Posted:
Jul 13 2004, 09:53 PM
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 51 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
Maybe it doesn't explain everything about Rand, but it's the best explanation so far. At least, it solves the Asha'man warder bond matter. As for ta'veren coming in, someone will have to ask RJ, hoping the answer is not RAFO ![]() ----------------------------------------
In fact, if you read carefully what is said, you come to the FAQ's conclusion. Here's the exact quote (TPoD, Chap 26, pp 586-587 paperback):
It makes it pretty clear that there are 2 versions: the one for the wifes and the one with the "extra bit" i.e. one with and one without compulsion, just like the Aes Sedai version of the bond (see my previous post). This is confirmed in an interview available at Dragonmount:
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In fact, the quote I gave in my last post is from Maigan Sedai, and, just after Egwene truns down this proposion (permanent compulsion in the bond), she suggests the following (CoT, Chap , p 811 paperback):
Contrary to the permanent compulsion aspect of the bond, she is not sure, as she uses a lot of "should" and "would": she doesn't know if what she is suggesting is really possible. It is just pure speculation. | ||||||||||||
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