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Llewin |
Posted: Aug 27 2004, 08:04
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
Agreed... So, DO we have myths about our actions and
does Rand's age have any myths about theirs? ![]() |
Axel |
Posted: Aug 27 2004, 09:42
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 332 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
It flat out doesn't work. Look, right now we are
considering ourselves as in the 1st Age and them the 3rd. That explains
how they remember us. However if there are 7 ages then we are remembering
them with surprising detail even 4-6 Ages later (depending on whether you
want to count theirs and ours) This brings memory of themselves pretty
damn close, only 2 Ages off. If you count that we may even have scattered
remnants of the AoL.... As for names, need I draw obvious conclusions: Artur Hawkwing = King Arthur Stone of Tear & Callandor = The Sword and the Stone Hawkwing's Empre = Alexander's Empire Age of Legends = Golden Age of Camelot -------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Two Rivers Wolfbrother |
Posted: Aug 27 2004, 09:58
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![]() Great Fang ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 551 Member No.: 20 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Arthur and Alexander were two very different
people. Age of Legends is Camelot? I always understood it was a lot more modern than that. Didn't Hawkwing and everything happen a lot sooner than to be myths? Isn't the Stone of Tear up as we read the books? This post has been edited by Two Rivers Wolfbrother on Aug 27 2004, 10:01 PM -------------------- This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai.
Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as
wolves. Current Projects: Encounters Handbook Tome of the One Power Homepage: Town Center Productions It's funny! Please check out the funny short films and sketches, such as Pink Avenger, the Sockies, and Kenny getting shot with a paintball gun. Check out my Wheel of Time RPG Website! It's not as funny as Town Center Productions, but it's updated frequently, so check it out often. Newest Features: Alternate Rules: Sanity Towns and Locals: The Tuatha'an I My TRW WoT Yahoo! Group! This is where I let the people know when I update my WoT site and also let them know what's coming up. |
Two Rivers Wolfbrother |
Posted: Aug 27 2004, 09:58
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![]() Great Fang ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 551 Member No.: 20 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Sorry, double post. This post has been edited by Two Rivers Wolfbrother on Aug 27 2004, 10:01 PM -------------------- This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai.
Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as
wolves. Current Projects: Encounters Handbook Tome of the One Power Homepage: Town Center Productions It's funny! Please check out the funny short films and sketches, such as Pink Avenger, the Sockies, and Kenny getting shot with a paintball gun. Check out my Wheel of Time RPG Website! It's not as funny as Town Center Productions, but it's updated frequently, so check it out often. Newest Features: Alternate Rules: Sanity Towns and Locals: The Tuatha'an I My TRW WoT Yahoo! Group! This is where I let the people know when I update my WoT site and also let them know what's coming up. |
Two Rivers Wolfbrother |
Posted: Aug 27 2004, 09:58
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![]() Great Fang ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 551 Member No.: 20 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Whoa, triple post? This post has been edited by Two Rivers Wolfbrother on Aug 27 2004, 10:02 PM -------------------- This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai.
Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as
wolves. Current Projects: Encounters Handbook Tome of the One Power Homepage: Town Center Productions It's funny! Please check out the funny short films and sketches, such as Pink Avenger, the Sockies, and Kenny getting shot with a paintball gun. Check out my Wheel of Time RPG Website! It's not as funny as Town Center Productions, but it's updated frequently, so check it out often. Newest Features: Alternate Rules: Sanity Towns and Locals: The Tuatha'an I My TRW WoT Yahoo! Group! This is where I let the people know when I update my WoT site and also let them know what's coming up. |
Two Rivers Wolfbrother |
Posted: Aug 27 2004, 09:59
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![]() Great Fang ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 551 Member No.: 20 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
What the crap? This post has been edited by Two Rivers Wolfbrother on Aug 27 2004, 10:02 PM -------------------- This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai.
Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as
wolves. Current Projects: Encounters Handbook Tome of the One Power Homepage: Town Center Productions It's funny! Please check out the funny short films and sketches, such as Pink Avenger, the Sockies, and Kenny getting shot with a paintball gun. Check out my Wheel of Time RPG Website! It's not as funny as Town Center Productions, but it's updated frequently, so check it out often. Newest Features: Alternate Rules: Sanity Towns and Locals: The Tuatha'an I My TRW WoT Yahoo! Group! This is where I let the people know when I update my WoT site and also let them know what's coming up. |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Aug 27 2004, 10:37
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
This is one reason that I am suggesting that we accept that there might be another Age between the Age of Legends and the Age of Illusions. It is very much possible. There are even a few events that can qualify for key events for the Age (eg; the Trolloc Wars, the War of the Hundred Years, the Consolidation, etc.). With this in mind, that places us at Age -3 from AoI and it places the AoI at Age -3 from us, making it less of a stretch that they may have myths of us and us of them. -------------------- | ||
Guest |
Posted: Aug 28 2004, 01:10
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Unregistered ![]() |
I don't mean to sound like a spoiled sport but is it
even remotely possible that the reason they have myths about us is because
Robert Jordan wanted give us something to relate to? I mean how
interesting would the 'man who flew to the moon' or 'merica' references be
if we couldn't catch on to them? |
Zinuk |
Posted: Aug 30 2004, 07:15
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 71 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
That the references are here for us is one thing,
that they are inconsistent with the universe is another - and I don't
think RJ would make such a mistake. The world he invented is just too
coherent for that. One thing we seem to have forgotten here is that during some Ages, like the Age of Legend for example, or during our Age, there stops to be loss of information, because it becomes very easy to keep track of everything (Internet, TV, ... or whatever; you get the idea). This means that, during some Ages, myths and legends can survive far longer than just 1 or 2 Ages. The one problem we still have is the Stone Age. Unless oral tradition is strong enough to prepetuate myths like Arthur etc., it seems unlikely that anything would survive. Another thing I would like to point out is that chess-like game that Moridin plays. It seems that Rand inspired the design of one of the piece, which means that some myths can survive a whole cycle of the 7 Ages, although their origin would be long forgotten. |
Llewin |
Posted: Aug 30 2004, 07:25
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
can you quote out of the book what piece you are talking about? ![]() | ||
Zinuk |
Posted: Aug 30 2004, 09:24
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 71 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
From what we know of what will happen to Rand, there is little doubt as to what the Fisher refers to. But, of course, it comes from a myth so old that everything about it was long forgotten even during the AoL. The only way Moridin could figure out anything about it was his access to 3rd Age knowledge, which is precisely the Age from which the myth comes from. | ||
Llewin |
Posted: Aug 30 2004, 09:33
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
Ok the blood on his hand over his side is obvious,
how about the bandage over his eyes? i thought the losing an eye thing was
mat's prophecy? |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Aug 30 2004, 09:37
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Okay, first, the fact that Moridin was able to figure
out that Rand inspired the original design of the Fisher comes in part
from the fact that he a) is from the AoL, so it is possible for the
"shadow of a shadow" of a myth to exist there, thus any who are from that
age would logically have access to that knowledge and ![]() -------------------- |
Llewin |
Posted: Aug 30 2004, 09:56
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
Ok, so how does rand being the origin of a myth from
7 ages ago jive with the idea that the events of each age don't exactly
match with each turning... We should believe that in every age of illusions that passes the dragon is injured in his side? |
Axel |
Posted: Sep 1 2004, 12:55
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 332 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
I have an Idea. One so radical many of you may find
it hard to accept. I propose that there are Half-Ages. Things we're going
to invent right now to reconcile all our problems. There are only 7 Ages
and Half-Ages combined. A very rough outline: 0 Age- Creation and stuff that precedes humanity .5 Age- Devolopment of human culture before the Power (first half of 1st age 1 Age- Power is discovered 2 Age- AoL 2.5 Age- between Breaking and Trolloc Wars (first half of 3rd Age) 3 Age- between Trolloc Wars and Final Battle 4 Age- stuff 5 Age- civilization collapses The difference between an Age and a Half-Age is this: A Half-Age turning is typically ignored (our numbering now works out) and is not marked by so dramatic a change as an Age (which is why it goes unremarked) -------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Sep 1 2004, 01:14
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Okay, first, Moridin knows about the shadow of a shadow of a myth, because he is from the age prior to the AoI (2 prior if you agree with me that there should be another age between the AoL and AoI). What he knows isn't as significant as what he doesn't know. He doesn't know the actual orgin of the Fisher. He doesn't know why it is called the fisher, or why the piece is designed the way it is. He suspects that its source is Rand from an earlier turning of the Wheel, but he does not know that. Moridin is the only one who has even an inkling of an idea that the two may be connected, so the myth has been long forgotten, since the game ceased to exist during the AoL and the myth that inspired it had been long forgotten before Moridin learned the game. Second, the major events of each turning must be similar and may even be identical in any 2 given turnings. Indeed, it is possible that with the infinite number of turnings of the wheel that there must be exact repitition of any given major event. It is possible that each turning resulted in Rand being wounded in his side, or that the instance that inspired the Fisher he was. Given that each time the Dragon is spun out, he is a leader of armed combat and that there are a limited number of places on the body to take wounds and the comparitive size of the torso, compared to other parts of the body, it is probable that each turning would result in a wound to either the left or right side. -------------------- | ||
Axel |
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 02:33
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 332 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
We know he has to die (actually no we don't. All
we're given is: "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul." this only implies
death) and you are right, the most probable place for him to be hit is the
torso. And that's assuming that all turnings of the Wheel are not
identical... wait.... How about this: We abandon the question of forgetting, what if: Every 2 turnings of the Wheel results in direct repetition. What if we are not part of the turning with randland but are instead on the second turning? In major events their 7 Ages resemble ours, but are not identical. After ours is over theirs will repeat, then ours, then theirs. If we stretch the bounds of rememberance this might just cover our paradox and free us of the restraints of including ourselves in their Turning. -------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Llewin |
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 07:09
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
Hmmm... Axel, not sure what the 2 turnings thing
would do to make it more acceptable to stretch the bounds of remembrance
though... If we stretch them a bit without the duplication theory you
propose it still gets rid of the paradox. As Ale mentioned the only shadow of a myth we have evidence of being in the age which it brought about is the Fisher, which is not truly in that age as it belongs to the memory of a man from the 2nd age who is only able to make the connection because he lived beyond his age. So long as MYTH is forgotten (which even in the case of the Fisher the myth has been forgetten long enough that Moridin is only able to conjecture about possibility) by the time the age that created it comes again there is no paradox as i see it. ~llewin |
Entropic_existence |
Posted: Sep 5 2004, 07:43
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Breaker-of-horses-and-men ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 226 Member No.: 22 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Exactly, the whole opening sequence only says and
finally myth is long forgotten by the time the age that gave it's birth
comes again. It doesn't say that Myth vanishes once the next age hits. So
I really don't see why there is a paradox.
-------------------- What is dead can never
die. |
Niveus |
Posted: Sep 6 2004, 01:23
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
I think its symbolic it says blinding his eyes not that he his blind simular to how Justice is always sculpted as having a blindfold/bandage over her eyes thus making her blind -------------------- ![]() | ||
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