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MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 07:10
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
I was looking through Urban Arcana and the preview of
the Advanced Player's Guide (from S&SS), and it gave me some ideas.
I'm talking bout the alternate spellcasting sections, mostly in the APG
preview. Now, it seems more like the books in this one, and i've been
working some kinks here and there. Basically, its a spellcasting system
that replaces slots with a skill check. This lets you cast weaves just as
the warrior fights with a sword, or the wanderer picks a pocket. Any comments are more than welcome. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Channeling (or Weaving. not sure here yet) [Wis] You have learned how to weave the One Power into tangible weaves. Check: Whenever you wish to cast a weave, make a Channeling check. The DC is 10 + the weave's level. If successful, you cast the weave; if you fail, the weave does nothing, as per weave failure. As slots are removed, the highest level weave you can cast is equal to half your channeler levels (round down). Wilders may cast cross-talent weaves of 1st and 2nd level only when they can normally cast that level of a weave (aka 2nd and 4th levels, respectively). While this might limit a bit in the beginning, the versatility more than makes up for it. Special: Channelers suffer a form of mental Strain when casting weaves. Every time a weave is cast, regardless of whether it succeeded or not, you suffer subdual damage equal to the level of the weave cast (including overchanneling increases). Affinities still work as per the book; having all the affinities allows you to cast that weave as if it was one level lower, while having none has you cast it as if it was one level higher. The Save DC stays at the actual weave's level, regardless. Note that while linking, all members in the link suffer the subdual damage cast. Overchanneling If you use the skill-based spellcasting, or a slot pool/mana point system, overchanneling is changed a little. For both systems, you may overchannel to cast a weave at 1, 2, or 3 levels higher than you normally could as if you were "casting a weave 1-3 levels higher than slot." This also include casting cross-talent weaves. Example: Nora, a level 4 initiate, can only cast 2 level weaves in her talents, or 0 level weaves in other talents. If her talent is in Healing, she may overchannel to cast a 3rd, 4th, or 5th level weave with the respective Concentration check DCs. She may also attempt to channel a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level weave of a talent she doesn't know, with the same Concentration checks. Regardless of overchanneling, a channeler may not cast weaves higher than allowed by her primary channeling ability. If you're using Slot Pool/Mana Point system, the first part of the overchanneling ability (cast a 0, 1st, or 2nd level weave with no slots/points left) are handled as normal. In a skill-based system, there's no need for this rule. Angreals/Linking In either system, the weave level increase for using angreals or linking is changed. Now, channeling through a angreal or a link increases the level of the weaves you're able to cast. Example: Nora (from the previous example) normally can cast only 2nd level weaves without overchanneling. However, using a +2 angreal or in a circle with 7-13 othwe women, she can now cast 4th level weaves. In the skill-based system, angreals and linking also serve another purpose. The weave level increase also reduces the strain by the same amount. So if Nora would cast a 4th level weave through her angreal/link, she would only suffer 2 points of subdual damage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like i said, it's rough, and i need some comments to fine-tune it. I was trying to figure out a system for overchanneling penalties when failing a Channeling check by 10 or more, but... i'm lost on that. I'm trying to keep it as KISS as i can as well. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Terraism |
Posted: May 15 2004, 08:02
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13 Member No.: 145 Joined: 14-May 04 ![]() |
So it's a wisdom-based skill? Alright. Figure a 1st level initiate, 17 Wis (+3) mod. 4 ranks, and Skill Emphasis. A total bonus of +10 to their check. Meaning they can't fail to weave 0-level weaves, and have a 5% chance of failing 1st. Ok, sounds good to me. But how about a 10th level Initiate, 19 Wis? 13 ranks, skill emphasis, and +4 mod. That's a +20 to their check; they can't fail to channel a weave - any weave. Now, while the weave level cap limits that, what's the point of there being a skill check if you can't fail it? (Note that skills do *not* automatically fail on a 1 or succeed on a 20.) Note - this means that, at 10th level, a channeler need never put points into this skill again. Except for overchanneling. So let's say 12th level, so that the total bonus is +22. Meaning up to 13th level weaves, no failure chance. If they don't want to blow a feat on Skill Emphasis, stop at 15th level.
Bad idea. At first level, it seems appropriate - they can weave 0-level weaves all day, since they take no damage - and take one subdual per 1st. Assuming a 1st level Initiate, 12 Con, they'd have 5 hp. So they can channel 5 1st level weaves. If she's got a 17 Wis (as our earlier example,) she'd only be able to channel two weaves by the book. So seems fair - more power, but more drawback. Now let's look at a 20th level Initiate. 14 Con, even, to be generous. Average hit points are 91 - 4 at first, 2.5/level after that (47), and 40 Con. Now let's see how many weaves they can channel - let's see if they can match a "by-the-book" level 20 Initiate. 19 Wisdom, a level 20 Initiate, by the book, can channel 5 0th-4th level spells, and 4 5th-9th. Top down, this skill method: - 4 9th, takes 36 subdual damage. 55 HP left. - 4 8th, takes 32 subdual damage. 23 HP left. - 4 7th, takes 28 subdual damage. Unconscious. And this assumes they're at full health - probably not the case, if there's combat involved (which is when this'd come into play.) Now, I'll grant that they *are* a bit more versatile - they *could* chose to channel nine ninth level weaves. But overall, they're weaker - they can't channel as much as a by the book channeler, and it costs them more to do so. If you like that feel, by all means, go for it. But there are problems. -------------------- - Terra Chocolate: God's way of saying "no hard feelings" to those of us who aren't getting any. | ||||
Zarozynia |
Posted: May 15 2004, 08:19
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 201 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
my feeling is that a channeler who channeled nine
ninth level weaves should be unconscious unless they are immensely
powerful. Channeling is exhausting. By the core book this isn't
represented at all, I applaud your effort to do so. I'm not certain that I like the skill check as is, due to what has been stated already, but I do like the subdual damage idea. If I wasn't already trying out Prime Paladin's fatigue based system, I'd give that one a run for its money. -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog |
MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 08:43
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
*nods* i hear ya. Like i said, this is preliminary.
Now, another skill-check thing i saw once that's a bit more hard-core is
15 + (2 x weave level). This means that a 0-level weave'll be a DC of 15,
a 1st level weave dc 17, up to 9th level (dc 33) or beyond (casting a
full, all-out as far-back-as-possible balefire, a 13th level weave, will
be a dc of 41, high but not impossible). That means a 1st level initiate
with +10 bonus will miss on a 5% chance, a 1st level weave at 10%, and
scaling up. and like you said, you gotta look at weave caps, which only
angreal and linking can break. And i'm with Zar. I think the subdual damage is probably the easiest way of regulating Strain on the character. without some kind of balance, the character can weave all day and never break a sweat. Also, if you can channel 9 9th level weaves, then you should be unconscious afterwards. Plus, once you get up there, if you don't have even a +1 angreal, then something's not right. Remember that in these rules, angreal reduces strain by it's rating. Even rand with his +3 male angreal couldn't cast 9 balefires without passing out. By the book, Morraine cast like 20-30 heal weaves, and even with an angreal, she passed out when she healed Rand. it might not be as game-effective, but it surely is book-accurate. Plus, i am working on requirements for a feat that reduces strain by half. It's either gonna be a feat, or a class benefit for Initiates/Wilders. You also have to realize by the time that you're up there, if you're female, you're going to have a Warder. Hit Point transferance is nothing to slouch on. (btw, if you think this is bad on subdual damage, check out some of the Deadlands D20 books. In Wierd Wars, the fatigue is 3 x spell level, with 0 level spells dealing 1 subdual damage! ![]() This post has been edited by MagusRogue on May 15 2004, 08:48 PM -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Terraism |
Posted: May 15 2004, 09:49
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13 Member No.: 145 Joined: 14-May 04 ![]() |
Point - and it is more in line with the novels - but I don't think that physical constitution, represented by subdual damage, is the right way to do it. Unless I seriously misremember (which *is* possible, 'cause it's been a while,) strength in the One Power was never linked to physical stamina. Which is what this does. Though, was channeling harder if the individual was wounded? That'd lend some credence to the idea. One alternate method may be to force a Will save after channeling - and take no damage (or half, your call,) if it's passed. Something like that might throw mental prowess back into the equation.
I've seen them. I think I'm more used to D&D's "balance everything for combat" methodology than I'd like. And you're right - my point was that the mechanics are *harsh* on channelers. As I said, though, if you'd like that feel, it should work (though I would raise the DC - probably to the 15 + 2 x level mechanic.)
Unless you're a Red, or not an Aes Sedai at all, or it just doesn't fit your personality...
I'd make it a feat. Probably with high prereqs, or else everyone would take it. Something like this, maybe. Strong in the Power [Channeling] Your strength in the Power makes for easier channeling. Prerequisites: Primary channeling stat 19+ Benefit: Subdual damage from channeling is reduced to 1/2 the weave's level (rounded up.) Normal: Subdual damage from channeling is equal to the weave's level. Because of the high stat requirement, it's available at fourth level, at the very earliest, and only to very strong characters. I wouldn't make it a class ability, since everyone would eventually get it then - in which case there's no point to not just having it be the default rule. -------------------- - Terra Chocolate: God's way of saying "no hard feelings" to those of us who aren't getting any. | ||||||||
MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 09:53
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Thanks for the advice. yeah, i think i will raise the
DC to 15 + (2 x level) thingie. and harsh rules keep things in line. A
channeler in this system will be able to channel more lower-level weaves
with relative ease and little pain (especially with angreal) but
higher-end weaves'll drain the channeler quickly.
-------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 09:58
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Let;s see...
Strength in the one power was a mental thing, correct. HOWEVER, channeling always took it's toll on the body. according to the books, the more you weave, and the stronger the weave you cast, the more draining it is. You don't often see too many higher-end aes sedai tire out however, as they (in the abstract, arbitrary system that is D&D) have more hit points, and thus are more comfortable channeling and in the end it means that they can last longer than, say, a novice. Remember when in the earlier books, it was tiring just making a ball of light for Egwene? then later she could make the earth explode without a sweat? that's what we're talking bout here.
not really sure on this one. As i said, while your strength is determined by your soul, if you will, the energy comes from your body. It eventually comes to the point where channeling 10 minutes is more tiring that weilding a sword for an hour.
touche. ![]()
I kinda like it. but the way i was going to have it was at like 8th or 10th level. It'll make you decide whether to multiclass to get stronger stuff, or take a few more base channeler levels to get a price cut. This post has been edited by MagusRogue on May 15 2004, 10:03 PM -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. | ||||||||
Terraism |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:08
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13 Member No.: 145 Joined: 14-May 04 ![]() |
Fair enough - it has been a while since I've read the books (going to start again soon, actually, but it's been over two years since I've read any now, and things are going hazy. ![]() ![]()
I'm not sure I get you here - do you mean you were going to make it an Initiate/Wilder ability granted at 8th or 10th level? Thus meaning that they need to stick with the core class longer (not go prestige, that is) to get it? -------------------- - Terra Chocolate: God's way of saying "no hard feelings" to those of us who aren't getting any. | ||||||
MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:11
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
correct. Was going to stick it at a core level of 8 ot 10. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. | ||||
Terraism |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:31
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13 Member No.: 145 Joined: 14-May 04 ![]() |
If you go that route, where you place it depends, I suppose, on how powerful you think it is. I'd actually place it at level 11 for Initiates - meaning that if someone wants that ability, they'll never be able to "max out" in any of the channeling prestige classes. I think it's probably a fair trade-off. Maybe 12th or 10th level for Wilders - it depends on whether you find Wilders to be stronger or weaker than Initiates. I think I might adopt a modified version of this system, though - but I'm going to go with the feat route. I'll definitely need to work with the prereqs, though - as is, it's rather difficult to get, but one of the "anyone who can, takes it" feats. Which is very much counter to good design practices. I'm just seriously lacking in ideas for prereqs. Hm. -------------------- - Terra Chocolate: God's way of saying "no hard feelings" to those of us who aren't getting any. | ||
MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:39
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
That's the reason why i made it a class feature
instead of a feat. It's harder to decide to give up a couple levels in a
channeling prc for it than it is to give up a bonus feat (as this is a
channeling feat, it's within the initiate/wilder bonus feats list). Making
it linked to their primary channeling attribute is going to cause some
problems, because anyone worth their salt will be pumping ability points
into thier PCA to have access to stronger weaves. That goes without
question. Now... I'd actually make it have sone Con-based requirements. I'd definately make it have Endurance as a prereq, as this feat means you don't tire as easily, and that's EXACTLY what Endurance is for. Besides, it's an odd-ball prerequisite, all the more to make channelers reconsider taking the feat. I might also give it a BAB and/or Channeling Skill Rank prerequisite, to enforce that it's something that should come with time handling weaves. that's my .02 cents. glad you like the system and might use it. always great to stroke my over-blown ego. ![]() -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Darius Earthbinder |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:43
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 33 Member No.: 146 Joined: 15-May 04 ![]() |
why not give chanellers their wisdom modifier + power
level from angreal as damage resistance when
chanelling. WARNING SPOILERS FOR BOOK 10 Rand +Nyneave (okay Bloody powerful possibly not a great example) + the Chodan Kal MAnage to chanell enough power to make the world take notice and it takes them an entire day before they pass out. Just an idea |
MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:45
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
thing is, i already have it that angreal use reduces
the damage. The choken dal, for instance, when used together reduces
Strain damage by 10 points, more than most weaves do. Though i forgot to
put in that angreals can never reduce damage below 1. no matter what,
unless you're weaving 0-level weaves, its gonna tire you out. i was also thinking of limiting Strain-less 0-level weaves to your Caster Level + Primary Channeling Ability Modifer (int for Initiates, wis for Wilders) per day, each one after that gives you 1 point of damage. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Zifnab |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:50
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 249 Member No.: 125 Joined: 3-April 04 ![]() |
I like that idea... -------------------- Playing: Jen Farthen I use the word "totally" too much. I need to change it up and use a word that is different but has the same meaning. "Mitch, do you like submarine sandwhiches?" "All-encompassingly..." | ||
MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:52
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
hrm... perhaps. but.... that might make it too easy
for them to avoid channeling damage though. i'll have to sit on it and see
what others think. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: May 15 2004, 10:55
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Something else i was thinking about. Channeling is
never without difficulties. I was thinking, perhaps, that when making a
Channeling skill check, if you roll a nat 1, you must immediately make a
Fortitude save, dc 20 + weave level. Fail and consult the Overchanneling
Failure table to see how fubared you are. On the flip, a nat 20 allows you
to cast without any damage, as you wove it so well that it was no sweat.
*something i stole from the Deadlands d20 spellcasting systems. always
prefered a skill-based spell system anyhow*
-------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
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