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> Warders cloaks vs sneak attacks, question for the board
anime_pk
Posted: Sep 2 2004, 03:03 PM
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I DM a wot d20 campain and the subject of sneak attacks came up.
I recently read up on sneak attacks in d20 on the wizards site and discovered this:
To perform a sneak attack the attacker must have a clear view of the target,
any concelment even fog (20% miss chance) ruins the sneak attack.
I realize the warders cloak doesn't provide a miss chance % ,however it does prevent a clear view of the target (-10 to spot the wearer and a +2 defense bonus)
So i humbly ask the boards help in making my decision.
What do you think?
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Niveus
Posted: Sep 2 2004, 05:46 PM
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providing the wanderer has spotted the warder the sneak attack would work but you mustv see what you attack so if they fail the spot check (they only have a rough idea where the warder is)


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anime_pk
Posted: Sep 2 2004, 06:21 PM
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Ok,I can see a spot check if the wearer is hiding/moving silently.
How about if he is in plain view (spotted) and the sneak attack is from behind?
Since a sneak attack seeks vital points to be effective,could an attacker see where to strike with such precision through the color shifting cloak?

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Niveus
Posted: Sep 2 2004, 06:26 PM
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I would say make a spot check even when in plain sight otherwise the attack would fail and deal normal damage only

In the books even when in plain sight lan look like a disembodied head while wearing the cloak

This post has been edited by Niveus on Sep 2 2004, 06:27 PM


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Sep 2 2004, 09:10 PM
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I think technically, if you follow the rules, the sneak attack should be allowed.
However, I personally thing that it shouldn't, or at least some checks should be made. Maybe an alternate or house rule should be made that Warder's cloaks also provide some kind of miss chance (like 30% or something). Don't base these things on the Warders themselves if you go this route, though. Base it on the cloak itself. How well-hidden would Rodrik the chubby innkeeper be wearing one? Would you be able to sneak attack him with the cloak on?
I personally think that no, you wouldn't, if he used it right.


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anime_pk
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 12:43 AM
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I think they let out the miss chance for game balance,so i'm reluctant to put it in.
However the spot check sounds good.
even in plain sight the cloak seems to have an almost predator like cloaking (no pun intended) effect.
Thanks.
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Axel
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 02:52 AM
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I don't know. When he is first introduced Rand thinks of Lan's cloak (this being back when Rand was still a fun character) as having a sickening effect if you look at it too long. This would, to me, appear to say that the cloak is no better than camouflage, if you know what you're looking at it doesn't work. And if you're trying a sneak attack then the advantage of the cloak is eliminated.


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Llewin
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 03:09 AM
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The cloak is made of fancloth, the material Moridin is wearing when he watches the shaido jump through hoops for ... was it Sammael or Demandred, i dont remember...anyway, in that scene you could see *nothing* of him accept his eyes because he was effectively wearing a ninja-suit of fancloth, which again is what the cloaks are made of. Now, the cloaks are not as effective as the suit of fancloth because of a few reasons, 1. they dont cover the entire body, 2. they are loose and flowing so move with the wind, detracting from their ability to hide that which is inside them.


Now as for game balance... The cloak already adds to defence and i see no reason for them to make it harder for backstab sort of attack than any normal cloak would, simply because any cloak would make the details of the wearers body potentially hard to see.

~llewin
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anime_pk
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 04:54 AM
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wink.gif Interesting ,I had forgotten the history behind the cloaks orgins.
I wonder could a ninja like suit of fancloth be made by the aes sedai today or can they only produce the cloaks.
It sounds like the original full body suits would provide a miss chance % thus negating a sneak attack.
Perhaps they can ,but no one has thought of it yet or they just issue it for covert ops?
That wouldn't prevent the forsaken from issuing one or two out though....Hmmm
darkfriend theif taker types from attacking the party with invisibility one night.
Anyway,if the cloak is no more effective than a camo suit when in motion it would not provide protection from sneak attacks.
I only ask because i have clever players and when one becomes a warder soon he will think of this on his own.
Thanks guys this board is awesome,after the wizards board dropped wot i began to despair.
biggrin.gif I need not have worried.


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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 02:54 PM
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I'm not advocating a change or anything, but if a GM did decide to give the cloak a % miss chance, than he/she should remove the Defense bonus, since the reasoning for it is the same as the reasoning for the % miss chance. You could have one or the other, but not both. The thing is a % miss is much better than a defense bonus because a higher attack bonus doesn't overcome it, then again I would say that Blindfighting Feat would negate its effect. All up to the GM in the long run, just thought I'd point those things out.


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Llewin
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 06:29 PM
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Good point, Sharn. I totally agree.

As to whether the AS make the fancloth 'ninja suits'. There is no indication that they do so in the Book Canon but that doesnt mean it couldnt happen in your campaign. I had a pair of Algai'd'siswai who wanted to become warders as our campaign progressed and were planning on having cadin sor made of fancloth for them to wear..... now that's just wrong. biggrin.gif
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