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> Critical Hits and Misses
Ultimo Aliento
Posted: Jun 9 2004, 02:47 PM
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Hmm , my "troupe" itīs a ex-muchkin group ,so since I started to play D20 , 20 is always a critic , and 1 is always something truly truly horrible.

Normally , when a 20 is rolled , we just use the critic stats for the weapon , the GM say something nasty like "your blow cut his head , blood spill in the room and yada yada yada yada" , then whe face the next roll.

And . . . thatīs never help to improve the game , since the players are almost always waiting for a 1 or a 20 , they miss sometimes part of the history , and itīs always strange seeing a bunch of people screaming "oh please ! gimme a 20 please please !!!!" to a dice rolleyes.gif

And the 1īs are worse . . . if a player dont have luck in a day , his character pass from a hero to a corpse in seconds , and normally itīs no a proudly dead for the player.

So . . . i think that the next time i would use the WOT mechanics . . . that could help , and at least , i would not have to think 6 o 8 times in a game , how to describe a hero that fall of his horse and stab himself biggrin.gif



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Zarozynia
Posted: Jun 9 2004, 04:48 PM
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Talked about it with my players on Monday night, since it was originally their idea so I wanted to check and see if they continued to want to have me do this in the game. The experienced players jumped all over it, and said that they are missing this aspect of combat in their current games.

And a funny anecdote, my players had to kill some trolloc babies the other night, I was having the babies doing 1d4-1 bite damage, and I critted but did not confirm on my players ankle (I was pretty much playing up the whole they're kind of like really ugly puppies ankle biter idea) - we were laughing at the ridiculousness of it all. Because I run in a vit/wound point system the most this little guy was going to do for damage was 3 wound points which normally wouldn't have made a difference, minus the fact that it was in his ankle which would probably made it pretty difficult to walk for the next couple of days. It would have been intensely amusing to see a baby trolloc hamstring one of my players. biggrin.gif


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strycher
Posted: Jun 9 2004, 08:20 PM
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In my group, we are using a chart that one player had from 20 (?) years ago. I think maybe from Dragon magazine? It is critcal hits and fumbles. It has d% check for severity. It also breaks into multiple charts based on weapon type (ranged, edged, bashing...)

I have been a part of this group since the 2nd Ed D&D days. We used this chart and it was good for adding lots of "flavor" to those crits. The ranges of % could award double or triple damage or so. Sometimes it would describe a hit location. Also, it gave a chance for any hit to be lethal! The auto lethal damages were very rare (1 or 2 %), and this only after getting a crit. So, could a simple dagger cut someone's jugular? Sure. But the chance was very slight.
More often the charts give details like "hits arm/leg. Use of limb limited", or something.

Citical misses ranged from simply missing (large percentage) to Reflex checks or slip and fall, drop weapon, etc. Strike an ally was also a chance on these charts.

--- Although as a player, I can't stand when it happens, I do understand that on a "crit fumble" it is possible for anyone to accidently hit their friend. As to the argument that the friend "gets a chance to dodge", I disagree. When combat is occuring, any awareness of your allies is usually only their position. You aren't planning on Dodging them! So, when your buddy critcally fumbles, I think it very possible that you are caught unaware, and therfore are hit by your bud.
Now, the chart does have varying ranges for each of these possibilities. And I think it even has "Hit Ally- ally gets Reflex save or take damage", as compared to "Hit Ally - ally takes damge (no save)". So both intances of "hit ally" might be possible. Or it might be a DMs decision.

Alas, I don't have a copy of these charts, I could probably borrow them, and post them if there is interest.
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With all of that description - please allow me to vent. (just ignore the rest, unless you want to pat my back and say "It'll be OK".....)

My group has decided to go whole hog with these charts. With this, they are "dropping" the d20 crit rules. By this I mean, the differences between weapons of having different crit mulitpliers and crit ranges.
With this rule change, weapons only differ with their raw damage.

So our group decided to vote. I was surprised that I was the only person out of 6 who wanted to preserve the d20 rules. Using the %crit charts was opitonal in my opinion. I think the one argument against me was "simplifying" the game. Using the % chart and ignoring the crit ranges/multipliers was easier in their eyes!

So now, there is no difference between a battleaxe and a longsword! None! They are both simply 1d8 dmg slashing weapons. Both have a Crit range=20. Both have same percentage chance (based on Crit table) of doing x2 or x3 or some other damage.

Maybe its just me, but I liked the way the sword had better chance of getting the Crit (19-20), but was only 2x. The battleaxe got a crit 1/2 the time, but did 3x!
This kind of makes sense in my limited combat knowledge.
This also gives some reason (in game terms) as to why the PC would choose one weapon over the other!
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Zarozynia
Posted: Jun 9 2004, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (strycher @ Jun 9 2004, 06:20 PM)

Maybe its just me, but I liked the way the sword had better chance of getting the Crit (19-20), but was only 2x. The battleaxe got a crit 1/2 the time, but did 3x!
This kind of makes sense in my limited combat knowledge.
This also gives some reason (in game terms) as to why the PC would choose one weapon over the other!

I'm having the same issue with my game. We play on a vit/wound system so we had to covert all of the weapons in the core rule book to due wound point damage rather than hit point damage. We followed the rules that are in one of the Wizard's books (I dont even remember which one, because I dont have it) that make a x1 or x2 damage due normal damage and a x3 due normal damage with an increased crit range by one and a x4 damage (is there such a thing in WoT, not even certain) would due normal damage on an increased crit range by 2 etc. It works in terms of doing wound point damage, but does make the sword and the axe equal, just as you are talking about. They both crit on the 19-20 and do 1d8 damage. I'm not super happy with this, but haven't found a better way of dealing with it.


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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jun 9 2004, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (strycher @ Jun 9 2004, 06:20 PM)
--- Although as a player, I can't stand when it happens, I do understand that on a "crit fumble" it is possible for anyone to accidently hit their friend. As to the argument that the friend "gets a chance to dodge", I disagree. When combat is occuring, any awareness of your allies is usually only their position. You aren't planning on Dodging them! So, when your buddy critcally fumbles, I think it very possible that you are caught unaware, and therfore are hit by your bud.

Umm... look here armor doesn't care if it is friend or foe, it deflects a blow. (that rhymes) Plus everyone gets the base 10 regardless of being aware or not. So worse case senario you use the Flatfooted Defense.

But I still would say they get their full defense, they are aware of their friend swinging a 10 pound axe head around. They will be looking out for it, if for nothing else to make sure they don't get in the way of it.

I'm sorry but I just think it is ridiculous to give an automatic hit to an ally because of your fumble. Just because you are off your game doesn't mean he is.

I'll stand by that.


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Entropic_existence
Posted: Jun 10 2004, 02:00 AM
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I agree Sharn, at worst the allies are caught flat-footed for some reason. In mine the ally who has the potential to be hit always has his defense bonus. Of course for some reason those dice are nasty and if the guy gets a critical fumble, gets the percentage for a chance to hit an ally...he usually hits, and does max damage lol. Funny how dice work that way.


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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Jun 13 2004, 01:33 AM
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I was just messing around online and found this....I hope you guys like... biggrin.gif

Critical hits

Critical Misses


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bmtc
Posted: Jul 10 2004, 08:40 PM
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when one of my characters rolls a natural one, I have them roll again to see if they beat the target's defense a second time (like critical hits)

If they don't then I assume that the heat of the battle, and the target's shifty movement, etc., has thrown them off in some way. Sometimes they fall on the floor because they put too much force into it, sometimes they accidentally hurt themselves, sometimes they open themselves up to an attack of opportunity... it just depends on the situation.

Critical hits though I have go by the rules, double damage. I don't modify them any. (although that is an idea)
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Niveus
Posted: Jul 11 2004, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE (Zarozynia @ Jun 5 2004, 06:04 PM)
I was curious as to how people deal with critical hits and misses (beyond the obvious success double damage and automatic failures). I've found a copy neat tables on line that have you roll a d10 and from there it determines what the hit/miss does, if anything. Do any of you use anything like this in your games, or have you in the past? Is it worth it?

My thought is that it sounds like fun, making battle more personalized and interesting.

On critical hits I ask my players if they wish to deal max damage or double damage.

On criticle misses I do a number of things

I altered the rules slightly to allow more interesting combat. if they roll higher then 1 on the second roll (to confirm Critical Misses) I follow 1.) if they roll another 1, I follow 2.)

1.) If the target is in a clump of people etc.. I make the goup (minus the original target) make relfex saves to see if they avoid the attack, the lowest roll gets hit.
If the target is alone I pick an object near them and have the attack hit it instead (rock, tree etc..)

2.) I make the Attacker make a reflex save versus their AC but at a -5. if they hit they wound them selves (the weapon backfires etc..)if they miss It flies off in a random direction roll die 8 (1) N (2) NE (3) E (4) SE (5) S (6) SW (7) W (8) NW and pick the closest target that direction (if the closet target is the original Target it flies off harmlessly). if the weapon has sufficant range the player makes another attack roll as per normal against the new target.

this seems complicated but I've used for so long that I do it with out thinking



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