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> Slayer, The Luc/Isam Conundrum
Freya
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 04:10 PM
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At this stage of Jordan's writing, noone is advancing the plot. lol.

But, seriously, just because you dislike complex explanations, doesn't mean Luc and Isam won't have a complex explanation. Not all things are simple. I don't see how you can ignore written evidence that Perrin was able to tie Lord Luc and Isam as one person. They both had the same odd smell, and when Perrin injured Isam in the Tel'aran'rhiod, Luc was hurt in the same fashion. Then there is the prophecy. All of these things are tantamount to Jordan smacking us over the head saying, "You get it yet?"

Granted, Slayer has mostly been annoying, but his POV was good as Sa_Sara mentioned. But, as Brigette mentioned, Slayer seems tied to the Tower of Ghenji, which is rumored to be tied to the *finn, which is very very likely to involve Perrin's involvement in the near future.

*shrug* It never hurts to pay attention to characters now, before they come center-stage and you are left scratching your head saying, "Who is this person again?"
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Axel
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 05:46 PM
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What the hell is POV?!

Yes its easy to see that Luc/Slayer/ and Isam are all the same person. Which was my point. Until Jordan specfically says otherwise I'm sticking with the simplest explanation: Isam is the only one who exists, Luc is a convenient alias, and Slayer is his form in Tel'aran'rhiod.


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Zarozynia
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 05:59 PM
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I understand what you're saying here Axel about the thousands of rumors that people are circulating on line that are speculations about what has happened to characters, how to deal with things. I however, do not believe that the Luc/Isam thing is one of them.

My must supporting evidence:

Luc came to the mountains of doom,
Isam waited in the passes,
The hunt is now begun, the shadow's hounds now course, and kill.
One did live
And one did die,
But both are.
The Time of change has come
Blood feeds blood
Blood calls blood
Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.

Pg. 105-106, The Great Hunt, paperback version

This is part of the dark proficy that was scrawled on the walls of Fal Dara when Fain was rescued. The rest, as you stated, was mostly about Lanfear, and the watchers at Falme.

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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 06:05 PM
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No one is obsessed about the "most complicated explanation." It is the only explaination given the evidence. It has all but been spelled out to anyone that has been paying even the slightest attention to the character. You have admitted to barely knowing the character exists, so I think it is fair to assume you are hardly an expert on the matter. The next time you read through the series, make note of the character and you'll see what we are all talking about. Seriously, Axel.


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Axel
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 06:53 PM
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If he were important I'd have noticed him. I'm not exagerating in the least when I say that at this point Bella has accomplished more than Isam. If anything I'm downplaying Bella's importance.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 07:37 PM
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He will, however, undoubtably, be very important in the next book. Hell, what's book 12 (11? *hard to keep count*) called? Knife of Dreams. Who uses the dreams to kill people and things? Slayer. and, besides, he hasn;'t DONE anything, true. But he IS important, not because of what he DOES, but instead because of what he IS. He is an insanely important character to both Rand and Lan. In fact, i bet lan has to kill his cousin, as in book 2 it's mentioned in quite a long essay about Isam being in line for the kingship, and Lan being in the way, and all that jazz.


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Sa_sara
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 08:03 PM
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okay Axel...how about WoT reader's 101? You obviously need it. This isn't meant to be mean, but you keep asking questions that no one else here has ever and probably will ever ask because the answers are so simple that almost everyone comes in knowing them. Those that don't...catch on by now.

1. POV = Point of View...the segment of the story which is told by the internal throughts of that character. Slayer has one of the most imformative and interesting POVs in the books in my own humble opinion.

2. Yes...Bela shows up more than Slayer being as she's the horse of the Dragon Reborn, ridden by not one but TWO Amyrlins, Min (the Dragon's girlfriend 1 of 3), etc. but Slayer is infinitely more important. Slayer doesn't soh up because he's the assassin of evil...he gets more done if no one sees him...and how do you know what he has or hasn't accomlished!? He's ticked off Perrin, killed various people and Perrin's dead wolf friends, he's potentially revealed important information about the Tower of Ghenjei, he's tried to kill Rand...an event which would doom the world, and about fifty other things...forgive me, but Bela just gets ridden by important people. Slayer kills important people. There is a difference. Slayer wins.

3. Please stop trying to be an expert on this subject. It appears from what you've said that you've never read Winter's Heart. If you did, you've ignored everything Slayer did in it (a big chunk of a chapter). He has betrayed that there's a non-forsaken summoning him, that he has to and wants to kill Rand (in Luc the uncle mindset no less!), that he also wants to kill Min (putting to death a theory by some very fringey fans that she's a darkfriend).
Forgive me if I seem rude, this would be the result of frustration. I'd say that having orders and wishes to kill the Dragon Reborn, the MAIN CHARACTER of the books whom the fate of the world depends on, makes one important in the books (...but then, I'm only a history major with a minor in psychology...what do I know about the importance of anything!? I only read case studies and reports on things that happened in the past and what triggered horrible world events and deaths of millions or what factor or life experience caused an individual to become a mass murderer...what the heck do I know about what's important in the social and world scheme of things!? If I can do detective work and add things up in real life studies to figure out why things happen how they do...surely you can do the same for a work of fiction in which the evidence is thrown into your face screaming for you to get it).

4. Enough of this "you're going for the most complicated explaination" nonsense. It's the only explaination. If you can't get it from RJ smacking us constantly upside the head with proof in the texts...why are you reading the books? He makes EVERYTHING complicated and if you haven't noticed that by now, I don't understand why you didn't give up on reading the books a long time ago.

Forgive me...I'm kind of frustrated and restraining myself mightily because I'm a Mod and I'm supposed to be cool and composed...


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Slayer II The Computer OF DOOM: (Slayer-Isam& Slayer-Luc) Yes! Free up that drive space so I can kill more efficiently! (Slayer-Luc) We'll go after my nephew when I'm running fast enough!
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Axel
Posted: Sep 17 2004, 12:11 AM
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If it doesn't appear in the books themselves I'm not interested in it. As far as I'm concerned about so called "experts" on ANY book, they don't need to exist. If its not clearly communicated in the pages then it doesn't need to be considered. This for your site: spits on the ground.

And as for what appears in the books: if it doesn't advance the plot in any way I ignore it. So far the only things that Slayer has done to advance the plot in any way he has done in the guise of Slayer. As if that were enough things are told from his point of view ONLY ONCE and in that occassion he does ONLY ONE THING and that is to consider mudering two UNIDENTIFIED sleeping figures. Forgive me if a single asshole who thinks about killing two people he can't even bother to NAME doesn't make me care. Especially when I'm looking for something IMPORTANT to happen. They've already had plenty of characters do plenty of things that DIDN'T MATTER AT ALL. Ex: The character reffereced at the begining of CoT, and probably the most interesting thing to happen in the whole damn book. I don't remember his name, I just call him Napoleon. He didn't do a damn thing, he sticks in my mind for that reason alone, he appeared once to do something that had NO EFFECT on the plot in ANY way. I'm sorry, but if it isn't important enough to be mentioned more than ONCE I'm not going to remember it or care about it. I can think of several things that got more coverage than Slayer, here's a small list:
Bella
Nynevae's staff
Moraine's staff
Mat's hat
Mat's knives
Thom's flute and harp
Thom's cloak
Thom's limp
Geofram Bornhald
Julin's hat


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Sa_sara
Posted: Sep 17 2004, 01:11 AM
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Everything mentioned by everyone but you so far has been accurate...excuse my French...well...actually I can't do that.
I must simply say that Axel, you're full of something and it's not intelligence or wit...and you lack the ability to take hints.
So please, stop flooding threads with your made-up junk. You think you're cute, but you're not.


Since the true topic of this thread (the template) has moved to Quillion's thread, I declare this thread...closed.

PS: On another note...
Magus, I like your theory on what book 11's title means!

This post has been edited by Sa_sara on Sep 17 2004, 01:15 AM


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Slayer II The Computer OF DOOM: (Slayer-Isam& Slayer-Luc) Yes! Free up that drive space so I can kill more efficiently! (Slayer-Luc) We'll go after my nephew when I'm running fast enough!
QUOTE
(Insert witty comment here)

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-- Also Courtesy of Slayer II, Computer OF DOOM

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