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> "Unravelling", A scholalry inquiry
Lariane Sedai
Posted: May 27 2004, 11:46 PM
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I am Leriane Sedai of the Red Ajah, and I am curious about the lost art of Unravelling weaves.
Seriously, though, OOC, the book doesn't mention specific rules for unravelling even though it is clearly an ability that exists within the novels, and I have a gaming session in about a week that may require it (a certain fellow Red has been inquiring). I am also well aware that it has probably been covered somewhere else in these archives, but... what can I say? I'm no Brown!
Just a little pressed for time, I would really appreciate anyone's house rules or official statements gleaned regarding unravelling. Even how you approach it in your own game would be much rewarded...
Sincerely,
Leriane Sedai.


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Freya
Posted: May 28 2004, 02:03 PM
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There is a paragraph about unraveling under the Concentration skill description. This, of course, is unraveling like what Aviendha and Elayne did with the Gateways to avoid being followed. Not cutting weaves in combat situations.

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Aleshandre
Posted: May 28 2004, 03:23 PM
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How about this:

Unravelling the Web (lost)

Talent: Warding

Affinities: air, earth, water, fire, spirit

This weave causes any weave of an equal or lesser level to unravel as though they never existed, negating the effects of the target weave.

Levels (5-10)

Notes: This is the weave that the ter'angreal worn by the former damane at the Battle of Shadar Logoth (the Cleansing) had. The weave is apparently inverted by default and it appears to be a passive weave, since Cyndane saw no web, when her's broke appart. It should be able to be tied off like other wards.


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Mantyluoto
Posted: May 28 2004, 03:40 PM
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you could also add the table for overchannelling if they fail to make a weave sight cheak vs some considerably high DC.

Its not supposed to be easy biggrin.gif


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Lariane Sedai
Posted: May 29 2004, 01:57 AM
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My sentiments exactly, Mantyluoto. In the books, Egwene describes unravelling as trying to keep a grip on an eel bathed in grease - which brings me to the next stage of my request. I lack all the resources I need at my disposal (namely all the books) and would be deeply indebted to anyone who could post, word for word, quotes or descriptions from the books concerning unravelling a weave. it is normally used to describe the unravelling of tied off weaves such as open gates, and wards, not cutting weaves as they are created, which would take Rand with a Sa'angreal to accomplish.
Thank you very much, all of you - I shall continue to frequent these forums, finding them to my liking...


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Primal Paladin22
Posted: May 29 2004, 02:32 AM
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Actually cutting weaves as they are created is something that all the Forsaken can do. Many of the modern channelers can to. I would say all the Ashaman and probably most of the damane, and Aes Sadie to. Maybe even some of the Athan'miere as they have obviusly come into cantact with more enemies who may channel over the centuries than most shorebound, I'm thinking Ilse of Mad Men.


Check out those web books, they have a pretty comprehensive list of most everybody's house rules it seems and they are very well presented.


Peace
J


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Lariane Sedai
Posted: May 29 2004, 01:28 PM
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You say, but I wish for examples - you've admitted yourself elsewhere that balance interests you little - well balance interests ME a lot. I can't quite recall the Forsaken cutting weaves so much as shielding or severing an opponent already embraced and weaving - but I would love you to PROVE me wrong. I don't mean to be confrontational, but I just need something definitive - if you could help, that would be nice.
Sincerely,
Lariane Sedai of the Red Ajah.


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Darius Earthbinder
Posted: May 29 2004, 01:55 PM
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off the top of my head i cannot remember where it happens but..
Lanfear cuts the weaves of air that rand is using to hold her to the wall in tear

during the *spoilers*




Cleansing of the source both forsaken and rands defenders are throwing weaves and cutting them.


Also the ability to unravel a tied off thread is only posessed by the Aiel wise ones until avihenda does it elayne just knew it was dangerous and not to be attempted.


My gaming take on it is this:
1. to cut a weave you must know it, whether by just learing it by weave sight check or by already knowing it (eg a female channeler being held by harden air knows the effect and can cut the weave)
2. to unravel a weave requires a feat
e.g. Untying the Weave
Preq. Tie off weave
with this feat you may untie a tied off weave you can see (weavsight check) you need to make a concentration check equal to the save DC for the weave.
if you fail you take damage as listed for an untrained attempt
Normal: you may make an attempt to untie a weave the Concentration DC is 2x the save DC if you succeed the weave ends, if you fail the weave twists and slides off into something dangerous dealing damage as follows
Level Damage Radius
0...........2d6...........self
1...........3d6...........5ft
2...........4d6...........20ft
3...........5d6...........50ft
4...........6d6...........200ft
5...........7d6...........1/2mile
6...........8d6...........1mile
7...........9d6...........5miles
8...........10d8.........15 miles
9...........11d10........50 miles
10.........12d12........100 miles
11.........15d12........200 miles
12.........death.........3miles 10d6 1 mile
13.........death.........10miles 10d6 5 miles 5d6 1 mile

the person attempting to tie off the weave also takes the same amount of damage to all their mental stats (INT,WIS,CHA)
a reflex save can be made for 1/2 damage
hardness applies.
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Entropic_existence
Posted: May 30 2004, 12:14 AM
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New Spring, the fight between Moriane and Merean on the private balcony of the Aesdaishar palace, pretty much the entire time is spent slicing apart each others weaves. Incidentally you don't need to know a weave in order to slice it apart. I think the battle between Lanfear and Rand mentioned slicing with razor thing flows of Spirit? Maybe I'm mistaken and they were slicing weaves made of spirit. During the fight between Moriane and Meran I believe Moriane was usinf flows of air laced with fire and possibly another one of the flows.

Note that since slicing of weaves as they are being woven has been seen between men and women you don't need to necessarily even have to be able to see the weave (men can't see weaves of Saidar and women can't see weaves made of Saidin.) the Slicing of weaves in my opinion is pretty common. Unravellling on the other hand is considered quite dangerous as far as I know. Don't think the Aes Sedai even attempted it but apparently the Wise Ones have. And if you mess up in the unravelling bad things happen, since the weave can collapse into almost anything. Explosions and such predominate I would imagine. smile.gif


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Primal Paladin22
Posted: May 30 2004, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE
You say, but I wish for examples - you've admitted yourself elsewhere that balance interests you little - well balance interests ME a lot.


Yea I thik that game balance is useful with new players and for new GM's. I get the impression that you, Lariane are neither. I think that for exsperianced and mature gamers game balance is a take it or leave it kind of thing. I have played in and ran alot of comic book games and a little Rifts stuff. YOu wind up with players who's characters are so varyied in power level that it gets a little crazy but you just have to remember that each PC has a thing that he does good and the way to let your players have the best time is to know what that thing is and let the character do it. It took me a little while to get to that point but when you have a Captain America type character adventuring with a Thor type character you have to make it fun for both of them.

As for examples, they are all over the series. It is really cool because you wind up with this titanic struggle when two channelers meet, way different that your typical D20 mage dual. One example is Rand and Lanfear (Fires of Heaven, I think chapter 52.) I can remember other times, a thing about staggering back as if struck always acompanies it.

May the light shine on you always Lariane Aes Sedai.


Peace
J


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Lariane Sedai
Posted: May 30 2004, 11:33 PM
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Thanks very much guys - it is becoming increasingly apparent to me that unravelling and cutting are two very different things - thanks for the help. Also, apologies to you, Primal Paladin - I was a little confrontational and fully accept that there are a myriad of ways to run an RPG; I think that it largely depends on the players. I would still maintain, however (What? I'm a Red!) that game balance is an incredibly useful tool in keeping the players interested and running a campaign. Some people might prefer more free form styles of play - I read some of the Rifts books, and decided to ensure that several of my players in particular never EVER set eyes on some of the psychic classes (Mind Melter?) because Rifts is a power gamers dream. While it is versatile and can incorporate nearly any type of encounter (mmmm... swords vs minguns...) I would be of the opinion that it would be very easy for certain people to abuse. As you would say, though... Peace.


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Primal Paladin22
Posted: May 31 2004, 12:18 AM
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Oh yeah, no sweat. I use game balance, but only as a tool, just like cliffhangers and mysterious deaths. I hope you have amny good and balanced games, but don't be afraid to be a munchkin and always remember that anything the PC's do you as the GM can do better, or at least at a higher level laugh.gif laugh.gif . Thanks for your contribution to the boards, I look forward to many more saucy and distingiushly "red" encounters.


Peace
J




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"Me... I'm doom on two legs, and you... you're a fish among sharks." - said the submission fighter "Lancelot" to an arrogant and unnamed scrub.
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