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> Scourge of the Shadow, help balancing my player's creation
bmtc
Posted: Jul 7 2004, 07:12 PM
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Okay, one of my players plans on raising an army to fight in the blight. I think this prestige class is still a little overpowered for having such low requirements, and I need help fixing it for him.

Scourge of the Shadow
Prerequisites: Member of the army for 2 months, weapon focus, Combat Expertise, great fortitude, base attack +5,
Ride: 4 Ranks
Listen: 4 Ranks
Wilderness Lore: 6 Ranks
Spot: 6 Ranks

class skills: Wilderness lore, knowledge(blight), heal, listen, spot, move silently, hide, ride, craft,

proficiencies: Simple, Martial, Shields, Light

Hit Die: d8

Skill points per level: 4 + int

BAB: Good (as armsman)

Fort Save: Good (as armsman)
Ref Save: Medium (as armsman)
Will Save: Low (as armsman)

Def Bonus: Good (as wanderer)

Reputation: Medium (as Armsman)

Special Abilities:
1. Favored Enemy: Trolloc
2. Blight Knowledge
3. Favored Enemy: Myrddraal
4. Blight Nemesis
5. Survivor(Blight)
6. At Home in the Blight
7. Favored Enemy: Draghkar
8. Furthered Blight Knowledge
9. Bonus Feat
10. Favored Enemy: Blight Creatures and Shadowspawn

Special for Channelers
every third level counts as a channeler level, (and at every one of these third levels weavesight, concentration, and composure are class skills)
At lvl 4, they may take quickened embrace instead of blight nemesis
At lvl 9, they may take blight channeler instead of a bonus feat

Blight Channeler: When casting against shadowspawn or creatures of the Blight, weave save DC increases by 1

Favored Enemy:Each favored enemy gives +1 Attack/ +1 Damage on attacks versus that favored enemy and all favored enemies before that. So, at
Level 1: +1 Att/Dmg v. Trollocs
Level 3: +2 Att/Dmg v. Trollocs, +1 Att/Dmg v. Myrddraal
Level 7: +3 Att/Dmg v. Trollocs, +2 Att/Dmg v. Myrddraal, +1 Att/Dmg v. Draghkar
Level 10: +4 Att/Dmg v. Trollocs, +3 Att/Dmg v. Myrddraal, +2 Att/Dmg v. Draghkar, +1 Att/Dmg v. all other shadowspawn or creatures of the blight

Blight Knowledge: +2 bonus to knowledge (Blight), and blight track (Only works when in the blight)

Blight Nemesis: Whenever a shadowspawn or a creature of the blight comes into threatened area, it must make a will save (DC=reputation + blight blighter lvl + cha modifier) or it becomes frightened

Survivor(Blight): +1 Fortitude and +2 Wilderness Lore in the Blight. Does not stack with the Survivor background feat.

At Home in the Blight: +1 Defense in the Blight

Furthered Blight Knowledge: +2 knowledge(blight), also +1 to all saves when in the blight, and +2 to tracking in the blight


New feats available to this class and levels at which they are available are:

(These feats may be taking as standard feats when leveling up, or as the class bonus feat)

Bucker Compatablility(lvl 1): When wearing only a buckler to give equipment bonus, bucker defense bonus stacks with class defense bonus

Nature's Warrior(Blight) (lvl 3): add half your dexterity bonus to your attack rolls when fighting in the blight. This stacks with your strength bonus. (Note: this does not grant bonuses to fighting animals outside the blight, nor is it restricted to humanoid opponents when inside the blight)


Bonus Feat: The Scourge of the Shadow may choose bonus feats from the following list: (Bucker Compatablility, Nature's Warrior(Blight), Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, The Dark One's Own Luck, Dodge, Mobility*, Spring Attack*, Whirlwind Attack*, Endurance, Improved Critical, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery*, Trample*, Ride-by-attack*, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot*, Precise Shot*, Rapid Shot*, Shot on the Run*, Power Attack, Cleave*, Great Cleave*, Track, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting*, Weapon Focus)

This post has been edited by bmtc on Jul 18 2004, 12:19 AM
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Niveus
Posted: Jul 7 2004, 08:51 PM
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im not sure as to what is woring with the class but it seems very unbalanced

try modifieing exsisting feats

give them natures warrior (blight), Shadow Spawn Hunter, survivior (blight), and anything else you can think of then start adding brand new feats



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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Jul 7 2004, 08:52 PM
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Yeah, I think Blight Blighter's WAY too powerful. Maybe if he got, like, Favored Enemy or something, then that'd be better. What else is he gonna be fighting except Blight creatures and Shadowspawn? It's like having a Base Attack Bonus progression better than +1 per level.


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Freya
Posted: Jul 7 2004, 09:27 PM
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I agree with TRW concerning something like Favored Enemy. In my mind, it would be a cross between DnD Favored Enemy and the Shadowspawn Hunter feat. ie, at 1st level, gain Favored Enemy (Trollocs) giving +1 attack/damage against Trollocs. At level 3, gain Favored Enemy (Myrdraal) giving +1 attack/damage against Myrdraal, etc. Each new Favored Enemy increases the previous Favored Enemies...ie, At 3rd level, upon gaining Favored Enemy (Myrdraal), the previous Favored Enemy (Trollocs) increases to +2 attack/damage. and so on. Other options for Favored Enemy follow the Shadowspawn Hunter progression...perhaps throw in darkfriends or Dreadlords for a 9th level option.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think there should be a channeler progression for this. If a channeler wants to sacrifice the time to join this breed of fighter, then they are going to have to give up something, and that is their channeler progression.

As for the Nemesis ability...I can see Scourge's gaining morale bonuses against Shadowspawn, especially if other Scourges are fighting also, but for the Shadowspawn to be scared of them? I don't see it. Shadowspawn won't give one fig that the puny human infront of them is a renowned Shadowspawn Hunter...reputation won't matter to them. I can see something like the Veteran of the Blight has, the Dark Aura (+4 Intimidate) they have from having the stink of death and shadow-creatures on them.

And lastly, when do these feats add in? Just as options for their level-based feats at 8th, 12th, 16th, etc?

Also, what kind of weapons/armor proficiencies does this PrC grant?
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bmtc
Posted: Jul 8 2004, 06:54 PM
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simple and martial weapons proficiencies, shield proficiency, and light armor proficiencies.


The feats are just available feats to take in the progression. Basically we wanted to cram a lot of abilities in, but didn't have room for them... lol

THANK YOU WHOEVER SAID BLIGHT BLIGHTER WAS OVERPOWERED!! FInally someone agrees with me.

I posted this class on Wheel of Time EZ Board and nobody brought that up, and that part is the part that I think is the most overpowered.

However, I do want to mention that, in my campaign at least, there is as much people fighting people as people fighting shadowspawn.

Oh, and the channeler level deal is because the leader is a channeler, and so he figures he could spend some time training folks who were in his army, and even perhaps have a special channeler division or something like that. (He is quite ambitious, although I have yet to see him gather more than one channeler and 5 non channelers... he hopes to get sanctioned by the Dragon Reborn... I say good luck to him, but it hasn't happened yet...)

Okay, give me a bit to discuss your ideas with my player and we will put up an edited version soon.

This post has been edited by bmtc on Jul 8 2004, 06:57 PM
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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jul 8 2004, 07:14 PM
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Yeah, I would also be more specific with the requirements. I like that it has a RPing requirement. In my campaigns that is implicit. But 4 ranks in any 4 class skills is lame. Weapon Focus is the only feat requirement. +5 BAB is a token requirement, most everyone going into this class is going to have that by level 5 without putting any effort into it. Seriously, as a general rule PrC work best if you are heavy on requirement and heavy on abilities they gain.

This PrC has half of the equation, it is heavy on the abilities. My advice: give some more heavy requirements. Atleast 3 feats, and one of those should not be something that any armsman would take (like weapon focus). Alertness would fit. Maybe Endurance or something that isn't so grand to normally take. The point is to make someone specialize, and they should sacrifice a little to do so. Sometimes that means taking feats that they normally wouldn't.

And be specific with which skills they must take ranks in. This is specialized class, and it hardly stands to reason that the character shouldn't have to specialize his skills to acquire this class.

Also when you say "member of the army for 2 months." I would be a little more specific: "member of a borderland army for 2 months."

Just my advice. I didn't see this on the EZboard site or I would have posted there too. I spend more time here.


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bmtc
Posted: Jul 8 2004, 07:46 PM
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ok, edit is up,

oh, and mentioned army is the blighter of the blight army that he wants to create

This post has been edited by bmtc on Jul 8 2004, 07:46 PM
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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Jul 9 2004, 08:25 AM
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I still dunno. It seems like someone shouldn't be BETTER in the Blight than in the Westlands or wherever. For example, At Home in the Blight. I dunno, it's just me though.


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Freya
Posted: Jul 9 2004, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (Two Rivers Wolfbrother @ Jul 9 2004, 06:25 AM)
I still dunno. It seems like someone shouldn't be BETTER in the Blight than in the Westlands or wherever. For example, At Home in the Blight. I dunno, it's just me though.

*shrugs*

Look at it like they are over-specialized in knowing that region, and that region only. The bonuses don't apply anywhere else so they are only somewhat useful. And their knowledge of other regions will suffer as a result.

I guess a suggestion to the GM then would be to occassionally take them out of their element. As the leader of this group, your PC might need to visit multiple other nations to recruit and 'speak up' the new army they are forming. Or to personally handle specific difficulties that occur in supply lines, recruiting, disputes, etc. Don't make the mistake of letting them camp permanently in the Blight...that would be ludicrious and no sane Randlander would do it willingly. Moraine and Lan successfully did it in Eye of the World, but neither made the mistake of 'getting comfortable' or 'feeling at home.'

As for At Home in the Blight...they gain +1 Def when in the Blight. Blight blighter no longer gives a Defense bonus, so AHinB only gives a +1 Def period. Granted, that's still nice, but not as unbalanced as when Blight blighter granted def bonuses.

As well, I agree with Sharn about a non-common feat as one of the feat pre-reqs...like Endurance or a Skill Emphasis (KS:Blight) or Great Fortitude.
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bmtc
Posted: Jul 9 2004, 05:42 PM
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ok, I added great fortitude as a prerequisite.

Oh, and trust me, they will be outside the blight plenty... but it will be when they are inside it that they really shine, in being among the few who have a chance at travelling through there safely. (and I could imagine that they might be dumb enough to try to camp there as a last resort, but they are almost sure to be attacked at night by, like the campsite itself or something horrible like that)
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Deryl
Posted: Jul 13 2004, 12:20 PM
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The way the prestige class is right now, it is not focused enough.

Take out the whole channeler things. Your PrC is a fighter based class and should normally attract armsmen and woodsmen. I see no reason, why channelers should get extra benefits. If you select a multi-class approach, you must be aware of the extra time, that your character needs to achieve specialisation in any kind of PrC.

I am also not convinced of the favored enemy feat. It seems rather unlikely, that anyone should get enough experience in fighting Myrdraal, that he can develop a special fighting style giving him that much extra bonus. Another option would be, to give this PrC a morale bonus when fighting shadowspawn as an army depending on the level of its leader. This would highlight the army spirit and elite status of this force.

I think also, that the reputation should be high. Certainly any army of this type will be famous all over the world.

As a principle guideline keep in mind, that a PrC is a very specialised, focused version of a normal class. The player choosing this path will have to sacrifice flexibility and a wide skill and feat scope for powerful specialised features.


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