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phrostphyre |
Posted: Sep 20 2004, 11:56
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Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 11 Member No.: 187 Joined: 20-September 04 ![]() |
Why? This is how I see it... ![]() Anyone powerful enough to create Cuendillar can probably Earth Delve for a chunk of iron themselves. Bring it to the surface and fashion it in to a long narrow blade, sharpened by the one power. Remember that Cuendillar is unbreakable so it doesn't matter how thin or fragile the weapon looks. Imagine a ruler, made from metal, sharpened and turned to Cuendillar.. simplistic I know, but casting a hollow shell to then pour molten bronze in to is going to create a pretty thick blade. Failing that, the same chap goes to a weaponsmiths, purchases a rapier and turns it in to Cuendillar. Job done. ![]() |
drothgery |
Posted: Sep 21 2004, 12:36
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 180 Member No.: 25 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Leane Sharif, who's quite weak by Aes Sedai standards
in her post-Healed from Stilling form, is quite adept at making
heartstone. This post has been edited by drothgery on Sep 21 2004, 12:36 AM -------------------- |
Llewin |
Posted: Sep 21 2004, 03:16
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
part of the reason swords are made the shape they are
made (even today) is because they require a certain shape and the
sharpening needs to have a certain degree to it or else they do not work
they way they are intended to. a razor blade may cut wonderfully but a
superlong razorblade would not cleave the way a bastardsword
would. secondly, rapiers were intended as primarily piercing weapons, were rarely used for slashing historically, and were made out of highly refined steel not iron. |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 04:32
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
okay, Niveus, going to be a pain in the butt here
about something... I like the way that you've written this up. And I will write it up multiple ways BUT what I need to know, is whether your damage reduction is correct at only a 4/-. Basically, was looking over the DR for Starwars armor and the DR for most medium armor is just what you have listen BUT my understanding of the type of the armor that you are trying to create is that it should have the DR of heavy armor while only having the heaviness of medium armor. The few heavy armors listed have DRs of 6 and 7. I could very well be misinterpreting what you are trying to do with your cuellindar coating on lighter armor underneath...but as is, all that you created was medium armor. a thought anyways. ![]() -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Niveus |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 04:40
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
yeah i thought it was a little low too but i only own
3.0 DMG and players so i was kinda winging it BAM I'll kick it up a notch! lol -------------------- ![]() |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 06:42
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
eh... if it grants both a Defense bonus AND DR, then
4/- is actually high. As the rule in the Unearthed Arcana book goes, Armor
as DR grants DR equal to half the armor bonus (round down) and a Defense
bonus equal to the old armor bonus - DR. Defense bonus from Armor is not
compatable with Defense Bonus from Class, unless you have Armor
Compatability. Another look, as I have ran into the ground by now, is Adamantium, the special metal, that grants a DR 3/- to heavy armors and reduces armor check penalties by -1 to represent the masterwork quality (all adamantine suits are masterwork) as well as the full armor bonus. Thus, an Adamantine Full Plate Armor grants a +8 defense bonus, DR 3/- (remember, dr is ignored by energy damage of any kind, as well as spell damage), -5 armor check penalty, Speed 20ft, Run x3, and weighs 50 lb (i think). So, if you want this suit of armor to still grant a FULL defense bonus, you kinda need to lower the DR. otherwise it's a bit too much. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 06:02
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
oh and a problem with cuendillar weapons. As pointed
out, it doesn't matter how strong the blade is, just how it's built. In
fact, a cuendillar blade won't really do much at all, less than a normal
steel one. Part of the slashing ability is the blade's ability to give and
bend slightly. If you improperly temper a blade to the point where it's as
rigid as possible, then that blade's gonna shatter the first time it hits
metal armor. Cuendillar is likewise too rigid. While it won't shatter, it
won't go as deeply either due to the reverb. *is an apprentice blacksmith*
-------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Llewin |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 06:41
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
Exactly what Magus said ![]() Mag are you in SCA, where did you start learning smithing? ![]() |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 06:44
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
Actual Magus, the way that I'm doing DR is that it's
entirely DR not both, per Starwars armor rules. So that bonus will be fine
for me. I'm going to write it up as either/or not both. So it shouldn't be
a problem. Niveus, another thought, when looking through Starwars. What if we re-lowed the DR to say 4 and then said that the DR on the armor goes up when hit with energy weapons (which most weapons in the AoL are), each time adding a plus one for a certain amount of time, to a max bonus of +8. That seems to better represent the fact that cuellidar gets stronger when you try to do something to it. This post has been edited by Zarozynia on Sep 22 2004, 06:48 PM -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 06:54
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I have always had a problem with the assumption that
cuendillar is somehow lighter than the iron that is used in its making.
There are no statements to indicate whether it is lighter or heavier than
iron or steel. clearly, it is significantly stronger, but it is quite
possible that it is heavier not lighter. Operating on the logical
assumption (since no mention was made of it being significantly lighter or
significantly heavier), Cuendillar would be about the same weight as the
iron. On that basis, Cuendillar weapons would be just as effective as any
steel weapon. The only stipulation that I would make is that the weapon is
indestructible. I would not give them any bonus to attack or to damage.
-------------------- |
Niveus |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 07:18
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
yes i see your point the best possible way to deal
with Cuendillar is to say it has inifnate hardness and as a result it will
ignore all hardness in any other material but in game terms this is a little too powerful unless we lay ground rules that show how even while clad in Cuendillar you can be harmed first question yes culindar is indestructible fine but if i crush a can im not destroying the aliminium im just bending it so if i arms of air someone and then crush them??? -------------------- ![]() |
Llewin |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 07:23
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
well i'm not sure about changing the shape of the
cuendillar because i think part of the indestructability is being locked
in to the particular atomic bonding it was in when it was created from the
base-metal.. however if we're talking damaged by the OP... fire? lightning? cold? removing air? there are a lot of non-direct assaults that would still hurt someone inside heartstone armor.. if we're talking about hurting with a weapon... no matter what kind of armor you have, it still has places it doesnt cover. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 07:29
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
doesn't adamantine weapons ignore all hardness,
except for other things made of adamantine? You know, in effect, all
cuendillar is IS adamantine. And with serious effort, you can break
cuendillar. just takes ALOT. Remember, in dnd that adamantine has a
hardness of 20 or 30, and 40 hp per inch. That's pretty close to
indestructable to me, as ANY weapon in Wheel of Time won't be able to do
20 points of damage, let alone 30 if the latter is correct, and even
weaves have a hard time doing enough damage to beat that kind of hardness.
Like I said, I see Cuendillar as simply being Adamantine by another name
and color. edit: just looked up adamantine. Yup, it ignroes all hardnesses less than 20 if made into a weapon. Hardness 20, increases the hp of all weapons, armor, and shields its made of by 1/3. So... lets do some math. Take the strongest crit weapon you can (a scythe. 2d4, x4 crit). At the most, even with power attack and a strenght of 18 and weapon specialize, you'll do (8 + 4 str + 10 power attack +2 weapon spec) 24 hp, barely enough to scratch an armor made of adamantine. And that's a pretty heroic attack. On a crit, at the most, is 48 (32 + 4 str + 10 power attack + 2 spec), which is enough to destroy most weapons. However, the chances of doing that much damage is pretty high. I don't like the idea of things being, no matter what, indestructable. Otherwise, you can make a siege tower of cuendillar, use arrow slits, and take out the Blight. This post has been edited by MagusRogue on Sep 22 2004, 07:35 PM -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Llewin |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 07:31
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
I guess what we need to decided is do we want
cuendillar as a weapon/armor to be as close to the descriptions given by
RJ in the books as possible or do we want it to be playably
used... from what we can tell according to RJ it is 100% indestructable, excepting it seems, by the taint of the DO? Now that's just conjecture related to the seals disintegrating over time... *edited for spelling* This post has been edited by Llewin on Sep 22 2004, 07:34 PM |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 07:37
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
*nods up to my edit* as i said, with no crit but best
damage roll, a person can do 4 points of damage to something made of
cuendillar. with a crit, thats 28. That's still a pretty damn near
indestructable item. I like KISS, but i also like a tad bit of balance.
-------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 08:26
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
If you want balance, don't allow Cuendillar armor or
weapons. That is as simple as it gets.
-------------------- |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 22 2004, 11:39
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
true. *G* I guess, if you want realism, that
Cuendillar Weapons Ignore Hardness/DR, and Cuendillar Armor grants DR
based on the armor category. Regardless, against sunder attempts,
Cuendillar is invincible. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Llewin |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 12:07
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
Well yes, very true, unless we make the current armor
that made in the age rand is alive in super heavy or some such thing so
that its nearly impossible to move in... |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 03:19
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 383 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Frankly, I think the more common mentality of the War
of Power in combat wasn't to necessarily have the biggest armor, but to
not be seen at all. With the one power, balefire, and shock lances, you
didn't really want to rely on armor anyway. That's why the one instance in
the book where we have a soldier mentioned he is wearing fancloth not
heartstone armor. I suppose you could have heavy soldiers, but what good
would it be when a channeler could just put a mountain on top of them.
Best to not be seen at all. Just my opinion on the matter, and why I won't allow heartstone armor in my campaign. I understand that it is possible to make, and if a player could explain to me how his channeler was going to make it, and the channler could make heartstone, then I would work out the mechanics. But I don't believe that will ever happen. Not anytime soon atleast. -------------------- Not all that is gold, glitters. Not all who wonder
are lost. - Tolkein |
Llewin |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 06:26
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
You make a good point, Sharn. Lets even look at the
world today, which is not nearly as advanced as the Age of Legends would
have been... the only 'heavy' troops we really have now adays are those
who drive or ride in vehicles... everyone else wears basic lightly armor
helmets and vests and camoflage... Running around in gleaming white armor
on a field of battle where laser rifles, balls of fire, and giant sho-cars
firing even bigger lasers etc are around wouldnt be wise would
it? However, that said, there's no reason to assume that no one would use cuendillar as a defensive measure and so coming up with a well balanced concept on its creation and implimentation is a great idea, and one that fits this entire board's exact purpose as I understand it ![]() ~llewin |
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