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> Slayer, The Luc/Isam Conundrum
Zarozynia
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 02:13 AM
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Has anybody made stats on Slayer? And if so, how did you go about it? With two different characters for Luc and Isam, combining both of their abilities, etc.?


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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 04:04 AM
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Steve did a Slayer Template on the old board.

It was pretty well done.

I'll e-mail that bum and get him to post it here.


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Sa_sara
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 06:25 PM
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*nods* but I would use two stat sets -- Isam's in T'A'R and Luc's in the waking world...that's for certain. They are different personalities (therefore their INT, WIS, CHA would certainly differ) that are concious of the other personality in POVs but not the same conciousness...though both are evil and meshed together in shadowtwisted form occupying Luc's corporeal form with two souls.


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Slayer II The Computer OF DOOM: (Slayer-Isam& Slayer-Luc) Yes! Free up that drive space so I can kill more efficiently! (Slayer-Luc) We'll go after my nephew when I'm running fast enough!
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Zarozynia
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 07:00 PM
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so which one of the two is the dreamwalker? Does it matter? So possibly noble/dai'dore for Luc and armsman for Isam or noble/armsman. But do they get anything for being shadow tainted? What should they get?

I would love to see this template!

biggrin.gif


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Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing experiment in writing/illustration/mythology

Photographia

Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog

Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource
* Developing a Character: The Aiel
* Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat
* Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section
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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 08:26 PM
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Neither one is a dreamwalker. It is a gift given by the Darkone to enter the dream world physically. Islam's body is dead and he lives on in Lord Luc's body. In the real world he looks like Lord Luc. In the spirit world he can choose which to be. Islam is the one that likes to kill wolves.

I've contacted Steve to put his Template up here. I can't remember exactly how it all works (it's complicated) and I don't want to mess it up by guessing.


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Axel
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 11:57 PM
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Uh, why have we drawn these conclusions? Why can't Slayer just be one person? His real name is Isam, in the world of dreams he is known as Slayer, and in the real world his alias is Lord Luc. Why does it need to be any more complicated?


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Zarozynia
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 12:29 AM
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because he is Lord Luc, of Andor. You know, Tigraine's brother who ran away to the blight? that caused her to leave, which caused the whole succession?

you know, from the trolloc profecy in The Great Hunt about Luc and Isam and how they meld together into one?


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Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing experiment in writing/illustration/mythology

Photographia

Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog

Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource
* Developing a Character: The Aiel
* Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat
* Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section
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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 05:14 AM
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We know these things because he was two distinct people before hand. Luc is Rand's uncle. Islam was Lan's cousin. Went to blight. Islam was put into Luc's body with Luc by some crazy DO thingy. And yeah the prophesy thingy.


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drothgery
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 03:43 PM
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The WoT FAQ entry on Luc/Isam/Slayer may be of some use.

http://www.darkfriends.net/wheel/1_dark/1.4_whats-up-dark/1.4.02_slayer.html


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MagusRogue
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 07:41 PM
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The reason why it can't be simple, is simply because it's not simple.... *blinks at my wording* Erm ok. Anyhow, Slayer is two personalities, mixed into one body, by the DO's hand. And both personalities have been corrupted to all get-out. Luc still think's he's a Lord, while Islam is just one sadistic bastard.


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Sa_sara
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 08:32 PM
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well...Luc is pretty sick too.
Isam loves killing the souls of dead wolves and has no delusions about himself that we know about
Luc loves killing anyone who can channel and his own family members and insists that he's the king of Andor (which can't have kings)

I'd say that Isam is sadistic...but Luc is meglomaniac, mentally ill, and also sadistic
two sadists...but one is significantly nuttier


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Slayer II The Computer OF DOOM: (Slayer-Isam& Slayer-Luc) Yes! Free up that drive space so I can kill more efficiently! (Slayer-Luc) We'll go after my nephew when I'm running fast enough!
QUOTE
(Insert witty comment here)

-- Courtesy of Your Unofficial Gaming Geek Princess
-- Also Courtesy of Slayer II, Computer OF DOOM

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Axel
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 08:49 PM
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And we know that he's Luc how? Just because he claims his name is Lord Luc means nothing. Anyone can claim to be anyone! I could claim to be Napoleon Bonaparte, what difference would it make?! Lord Luc is a convenient alias for Isam, nothing more. He choice Luc because there was 0 chance of Luc showing up and proving him wrong.
Honestly you guys need to get into the first rule of physics: Seek The Simplicity. or KISS: Keep It Simple, Stupid


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Sa_sara
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE
And we know that he's Luc how? Just because he claims his name is Lord Luc means nothing.

Axel...Have you ever read the books?
Luc is Luc...
1. Because Dark Prophecy identifies him (if the Dark One says he's Luc...odds are he's not Asmodean instead).
2. Because in his POV in Winter's Heart he thinks about how fun it would be to kill Rand and Min using the word "nephew" to refer to Rand...Rand only has ONE uncle we know about...and his name is Luc. If he had any other uncles, they would have told him while he was in the Waste.
3. Luc went into the Blight, Slayer came out of it in accordance with said Dark Prophecy...how many Slayers are there? ONE. How many lost Andoran princes are there ONE. The Dark One can't make bodies, he has to steal them...however, Luc and Isam being princelings pledged to the sword in their infancy...their souls were useful too. Especially Luc's since Isam died as a toddler and had no real life experience.

Isam doesn't possess his body without Luc being around because:
He wouldn't think of Rand as a nephew in the POV
In the POV Luc wouldn't consider letting Isam take over the body to hunt wolves if Isam weren't a seperate entity that Luc can supress

And of course we've seen demonstrated here as well that Isam is a valid personality (because Luc-Slayer thinks to himself about Isam-Slayer) as well as Luc.

This post has been edited by Sa_sara on Sep 15 2004, 09:57 PM


--------------------
Slayer II The Computer OF DOOM: (Slayer-Isam& Slayer-Luc) Yes! Free up that drive space so I can kill more efficiently! (Slayer-Luc) We'll go after my nephew when I'm running fast enough!
QUOTE
(Insert witty comment here)

-- Courtesy of Your Unofficial Gaming Geek Princess
-- Also Courtesy of Slayer II, Computer OF DOOM

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Guest
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 09:52 PM
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Also, remember what he looks like in the real world. That's NOT Isam's body, not by a long shot. Isam resembles his cousin to the T. An older, colder Lan. Luc looks like he could be rand's uncle without a doubt. Now, we know that Slayer cannot channel. So how does he look like Luc in the real world, but can choose either form in Tel? Furthermore, he can willingly change personalities. Says so in the book where he kills that old couple, thinking its rand and min (i do believe). He said that Luc would take more pleasure out of it. quote me if i miss-quoted it.

as Sa-Sara said, they're one and the same, fused by the Dark One according to prophecy. Two enter the Blight, one comes out but both still survive.
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MagusRogue
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 09:53 PM
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That was me, btw.


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Axel
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 10:50 PM
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What, I'm supposed to have read the books so many times I can memorize all these obscure, useless bits of knowledge? I only read them through twice and the last time was a while back. All I remember from the Dark Prophecy is that it mentioned Lanfear (because she was actually important at some point near the prophecy's appearance) And as for Isam, I only remember him thinking of one person as his nephew, and that's Lan. He doesn't mention Rand as far as I can remember.


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drothgery
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 11:07 PM
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Isam is Lan's cousin. Luc is Rand's (and Galad's) uncle.


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Sa_sara
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 12:23 AM
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QUOTE (Axel @ Sep 15 2004, 08:50 PM)
What, I'm supposed to have read the books so many times I can memorize all these obscure, useless bits of knowledge? I only read them through twice and the last time was a while back. All I remember from the Dark Prophecy is that it mentioned Lanfear (because she was actually important at some point near the prophecy's appearance) And as for Isam, I only remember him thinking of one person as his nephew, and that's Lan. He doesn't mention Rand as far as I can remember.

Okay...to address your response...

1. I've only read the books through ONCE. If I can remember something well enough to reference it (I'll admit, I check my books or a summary before writing it down here but I at least remember what was said/done), someone who has read it twice has no excuse but bad memory for not remembering something that was considered significant in the way of POVs...Slayer's POV was filled with answers to questions we've had since he showed up.

2. What drothgery said -- Luc is Rand's uncle, Isam is Lan's COUSIN...it mentions this fact about fifteen times in any given book.

3. It's hardly obscure...it's one of the better known things in the books, at least in the WoT groups I've been in/heard of. (half jokingly) Most people pay attention to Slayer because his POV regards something other than clothing choices and it's a refreshing break from furniture descriptions (sorry...bad RJ writing jokes in there...).

4. Why remember things? Because the plot makes a lot more sense if you do and it makes you look considerably more intelligent when you try to talk about it on these boards. If you can't remember...look it up!


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Slayer II The Computer OF DOOM: (Slayer-Isam& Slayer-Luc) Yes! Free up that drive space so I can kill more efficiently! (Slayer-Luc) We'll go after my nephew when I'm running fast enough!
QUOTE
(Insert witty comment here)

-- Courtesy of Your Unofficial Gaming Geek Princess
-- Also Courtesy of Slayer II, Computer OF DOOM

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Llewin
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 01:12 AM
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To toss somethin else in there with Sa Sara's reply... if you've 'only read the books twice' and dont find the variety of POV and plot twists interesting dont post like you know it all and your opinion is Canon.....

*edit* sorry that reply really ticked me off, Axel... Look if you're going to come across implying that everyone and their uncle is an idiot for suggesting something that doesnt make sense to you, you better make good and certain that you've got your facts straight and stop shooting from the hip... You're more likely to hit your foot than anyone else...like you did in this post... i hope that little toe grows back btw.... lol *end edit*



Thank you,

Llewin

This post has been edited by Llewin on Sep 16 2004, 01:14 AM
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Axel
Posted: Sep 16 2004, 03:04 PM
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I'm not insulting anyone, I'm just wondering why everyone is obsessed with the most complex explanation possible.

As for Isam being important. I'm sorry but I can only remember the twit popping up a few times. As Slayer in Perrin's dreams. Slayer is, although significant, hardly something you get alot of information about. He's seen constantly out of the corner of the eye or at a great distance. Then there's Luc. We see him AT ONLY ONE POINT throughout the course of the books, and that is during the seige of Emond's Field, where he occasionally pops up just so he can piss off Perrin and look like a hero. Then we see Isam who appears only once, and then looking at someone's sleeping form contemplating homicide. Forgive me if I don't think this ass is important right now, BUT HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING. If he does something in the next book worthy of note then I'll recognize him. But if a person doesn't find some way to actually advance the plot, I'm not going to pay attention to him. At this point, however, Bella has managed to advance the plot more than Isam.


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