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> Weaves in Tel'aran'rhiod, or casting in your dreams
Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 03:37 PM
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Okay, I've got a question for those weave geniuses. smile.gif

I thought that I remember somewhere that the only "element" that you can weave in your sleep is Spirit. So in Tel'aran'rhiod can one only cast with Spirit?

I'm assuming that if one enters Tel'aron'rhiod physically that he can cast normally. Rand and the Forsaken do it.

What if you were asleep, and some one that entered physically pulled you into tel'aran'rhiod. They could cast normally, but you could not. But would you be able see the weaves cast and learn them?

Can anyone clear this up?


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Aleshandre
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 04:43 PM
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Assuming that the person channeling is of the same gender, yes. When Nyn had Moggy on the adam, she saw the weaves that she made her perform.


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Guest_Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 07:25 PM
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Were they there physically or did they dream themselves there? If they dreamed themselves there then I guess you can channel more than just Spirit while sleeping. Yes? No?
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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 07:27 PM
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Sorry, I wasn't logged in. That was me asking the question.


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Freya
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 08:09 PM
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You can only weave Spirit in the 'waking' world while you are asleep. ie, Weave a Spirit sheild to keep your dreams from affecting others...cannot be tied-off, but can be maintained while asleep. See New Spring for a description of Moraine doing just that.

But, in the Tel'aran'rhiod, you can weave as normal. The big 'un-doable' thing is weaving in the Tel'aran'rhiod and affecting the Real World...like Egwene did in the Stone of Tear.

This post has been edited by Freya on Feb 13 2004, 08:11 PM
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Xythlord
Posted: Feb 14 2004, 06:20 PM
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Hiya Freya,

Could you please refresh my memory and tell me when was it that Egwene's channeling affected the waking world from TAR. Book and chapter would be fine. I am not challenging your assumption just wanting to re-read that section as if it were true then I would have to change some aspects of my WoT RPG Bible.

Xyth dry.gif
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KSBsnowowl
Posted: Feb 14 2004, 07:22 PM
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Hey Xyth,
The part she is referring to is in the Stone of Tear near the end of TDR, where the BA had captured the wonder girls. Egwene dreamed herself into TAR to see what she could do/learn outside of their cell. When she was in the hallway outside the cell, she saw the black sister guarding their door starting to weakly show up in TAR. (the black sister was dosing off while playing with one of the dream ter'angreal). While the black sister was still only half asleep (and thus only partly in TAR) Egwene wove a shield and cut her off from the source. (and maybe bound her in air too?)

She opened the cell door, and then woke back up (forgetting that you can't affect physical things in the real world from TAR). Almost immedeately after this Mat came down the hall, confused why the black sister was just sitting there staring at him with her eyes only half open, and freed the wonder girls.

Sorry I can't give a page number, I don't have room for all my books at college sad.gif


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Freya
Posted: Feb 16 2004, 08:18 PM
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Yeah, KSB is right, but put the emphasis on the wrong event. The big thing was that Egwene weaved Earth into the lock on the cell door, affecting the real world lock, opening the door and allowing them to escape.

Shielding and Binding in Air the Black sister was very cool, but not so incredible because the Black sister was using a Dream ter'angreal at the time. The effect was certainly unexpected.
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drothgery
Posted: Feb 16 2004, 08:41 PM
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Err... the girls didn't physically get out of the cell until Mat and Jullin let them out (though they probably wouldn't have been able to take the key from Amico if Egwene hadn't dealt with her in T'A'R).


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Freya
Posted: Feb 16 2004, 09:00 PM
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Just because Matt physically opened the door doesn't mean that Egwene didn't open the lock via the Power in the Tel'aran'rhiod.

She opened the lock in the Dreaming and it affected the real world.
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drothgery
Posted: Feb 16 2004, 09:48 PM
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They couldn't open the door and walk out after Egwene woke up (and were still shielded in the waking world until Nynaeve slugged Amico). The lock was opened via conventional means (Mat took the key from the unconcious Amico).

This post has been edited by drothgery on Feb 16 2004, 09:49 PM


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Freya
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 12:35 AM
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*sigh*

<sheepish apology>I concede my point. I was the one that was mistaken. </sheepish aplology>

The important thing is living things can be affected in the Tel'aran'rhiod and the effect will still exist in the waking world (shielding and binding the Black sister). Non-living things, like the metal lock, cannot.
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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 04:14 AM
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QUOTE (Freya @ Feb 16 2004, 01:35 PM)
*sigh*

<sheepish apology>I concede my point. I was the one that was mistaken. </sheepish aplology>

The important thing is living things can be affected in the Tel'aran'rhiod and the effect will still exist in the waking world (shielding and binding the Black sister). Non-living things, like the metal lock, cannot.

Only if they're asleep, and thus touching Tel'Aran'Rhiod. Otherwise, the two worlds are seperate. However, when a human goes to sleep, and they dream themselves into Tel'Aran'Rhiod, it works. You cannot channel on what you cannot see, and you cannot see people in TAR unless they're dreaming.


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/AJ
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 08:10 PM
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Couple of Quotes (all PB versions)
Just to clear it up: tDR

p655
"[Egwene] woke up to all her bruises and aches and thirst, to the wall of the cell against her back, staring tightly at the tightly shut cell door. 'Of course. What happens to living things is real when they wake. What [Egwene] did to stone or iron or wood has no effect in the waking world.'"

But I think a much more interesting moment is in tGH. Rand sleeps in the abandoned inn of a village near Falme on Toman Head and dreams, of Ba'alzamon.

p587
"[Rand] rolled to his other side, and Ba'alzamon was standing beside the chair with the pure white length of the Dragon's banner in his hands...Rand's saddlebags lay by his feet, buckles undone, flap thrown back where the banner had been hidden."

p588
"Ba'alzamon tossed the banner to the floor and put his hands on the chair back; wisps of smoke rose from between his fingers."

p589
"Ba'alzamon was gone... His saddlebags stood...with the buckles done up...bulging with the...Dragon's banner... But on the chair back, tendrils of smoke still rose from the charred impressions of fingers."

Anyone wanna start hazzarding guesses at how Ba'alzamon almost set fire to the decidedly-not-flesh-and-blood wood of poor Rand's chair from Tel??? :)

Apart from that I know of no instances where actions in Tel' have effected the Real World. We know, though, that people can channel anything if they are in Tel (as Egwene had proved in the above example) but Moiraine states that only Spirit can be weaved (and held) when actually sleeping.

I have a wacky suggestion I might throw in here :) If a powerful (non-channeling) Dreamwalker can alter her appearance, from easy bits like clothing, through to hair, height, stature, and even on to gender. Is it possible for them to alter themselves to be able to channel?

Ok, ok, far out, very unlikely. But, what if a powerful (female) Dreamwalker knows the essence of the channeling ability (gleaned from seeing/achieving healing of Gentling or Stilling)? Could they alter someone to be able to channel in Tel' or, even weirder, could a woman like Egwene alter her own abilities to be able to channel Saidin (male half).

Thoughts, suggestions, and general slatings please :)

/AJ


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Targul
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 11:20 PM
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I would think that in the Dream World a powerful dreamer should be able to do just about anything. Sure I think that they could give themselves the ability to channel but then again not really. I think that they should be able to make channeling like effects out of their enviroment but would it give them the ability to channel outside of the Dream world I would say no. And I would also say no to Egwene being able to change to channeling saidin. These are intrinsic characteristics of a character's soul if you will. Take Aran'gar for example male, channels saidin but outward appearance is that of a woman.

That's just my opinon.


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