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> The Nature of the Fain, or.. do we have stats for Padan Fain?
Campin
Posted: Nov 16 2004, 10:13 AM
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So what is the community consensus on Pagan Fain’s stats?

I think I will throw in a younger Fain in my Campaign and was thinking about his Special Abilities, you know that freaky cool stuff not covered in the WoT core rulebook.

The Fain Abilities:

1. Sense Ta'veren and not only sense it but Track a Ta'veren the same way a Sniffer tracks violent people so such a powerful Ta'veren like Rand could be easily followed around the world.

My logic for why he never expressed an interest Tracking Mat or Perrin is simply that he is stuck in Rands orbit like everyone else.

2. Measure the Power (pg. 189 PotD) in male channellers so with this power and the one above he could gather the clues he needed to find the Dragon Reborn.

Fain was picked to be The Dark One's Hound because they knew that the Dragon Reborn was in West Andor (I think), but it still took Fain may years before locating them and my guess is that because the 3 boys never became Ta'veren until just before the whole attack on Winternight then if he could Measure the Power he would realize that Rand is the one.

Now Fain after the episode at Shadar Logoth, well I have a theory about Mordeth, I think he was Ta'veren. How else could a single person affect the pattern of so many in such a drastic way like how Mordeth corrupted the people of Aridhol?
When Mordeth merged with Fain I think he became Ta'veren, weaker than the 3 boys but still Ta'veren....

What you think? Plausible?


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Nov 16 2004, 11:36 AM
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I think this is a very good start and direction, but...

I don't think Fain has any ability to sense ta'veren more than other people would. I think he knew Rand was who he was by other means, though not sure what those other means are.

You could be right about the three boys not becoming ta'veren until after they left. And I think you're dead-on about Mordieth being ta'veren.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Nov 16 2004, 04:13 PM
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the biggest problem I have with his stats is they don't include the Dagger of Shadar Logoth in it..... that thing was wicked..... and it has to be a fast-acting disease.... like an incubation period of 1 minute or soemthing...


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Llewin
Posted: Nov 16 2004, 07:15 PM
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i just finished reading through the passage in eye of the world where moiraine interogates Fain and reports to the group... fain was only actively hunting the dragon for 3 years before the attack on winternight. before that he was a high ranking darkfriend but thats all. no super special abilities. he was picked because ishy had some idea where rand was (EG west Andor) and fains trading circuit brought him to those regions... for all we know ishy may have picked up some other wandering dark-friend merchants and peddlers too but fain happened to be the one who had good information when his mind was..."sifted through"

which on a side note indicates another ability with the one power... reading someones mind... sifting through memories or feelings or some such thing.
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Zarozynia
Posted: Nov 16 2004, 08:20 PM
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My thoughts on Fain are that he would have two templates on him. One is the dark ones hound, which probably has been used through history in times of need by the dark one and would only be given to a high level darkfriend, and another to represent the melding of his body with that of Mordeth. I meant to write these up when I used him in my campaign, but I got in way over my head with the whole Two Rivers interactions with the WCs, Slayer, Perrin et al and everything else.

Anybody who wanted to write up a Dark One's Hound template, I would love to see it. I want to use it for my AoL campaign setting.


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Campin
Posted: Nov 16 2004, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE (MagusRogue @ Nov 16 2004, 02:13 PM)
the biggest problem I have with his stats is they don't include the Dagger of Shadar Logoth in it..... that thing was wicked..... and it has to be a fast-acting disease.... like an incubation period of 1 minute or soemthing...

Never gave the Dagger much thought because it's equipment, a magic item, but equipment. Also can't really comment since the last time I ready the books was 6 years ago (I'm in the process of re-reading them, still on the first one though smile.gif) and don't remember much except it made Mat a bit of a downer.

But could it also be +1 power-wrought for the purpose of what Fain could hurt with it? Along with the disease...

QUOTE
i just finished reading through the passage in eye of the world where moiraine interogates Fain and reports to the group... fain was only actively hunting the dragon for 3 years before the attack on winternight. before that he was a high ranking darkfriend but thats all. no super special abilities. he was picked because ishy had some idea where rand was (EG west Andor) and fains trading circuit brought him to those regions... for all we know ishy may have picked up some other wandering dark-friend merchants and peddlers too but fain happened to be the one who had good information when his mind was..."sifted through"


Like I stated above it has been a while since I read through all the books and I only made it to Book 8, Path of Daggers. But I though that Fain had to travel to Shayol Ghul and pledge himself when he was chosen as the Dark One's Hound, so I just kinda imagined he was granted some kind of power to help he complete his task. I also vaguely recall reading some passage somewhere where Fain states that he could Follow Rand anywhere...



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Pheylorn
Posted: Nov 16 2004, 11:36 PM
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Rather than adding a template to a dark-friend like Padan Fain, My friend and I came up with a prestige class called 'Shadowsouled'. It includes various 'gifts' from the dark one and ive used it in my campaign and found it to be very effective. If you'd like I could post it here, just give me the go ahead.


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Campin
Posted: Nov 17 2004, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (Pheylorn @ Nov 16 2004, 09:36 PM)
Rather than adding a template to a dark-friend like Padan Fain, My friend and I came up with a prestige class called 'Shadowsouled'. It includes various 'gifts' from the dark one and ive used it in my campaign and found it to be very effective. If you'd like I could post it here, just give me the go ahead.


Yes, Please... if you could list these "gifts".

I just read the chapter where Rand goes to see Logain as he is paraded around Caemlyn and yea have to agree, No Ta'veen Sensing abilities for you Mr. Fain, no indeed.

But I’m still convinced he had something to make his life easier, something that tipped him off to the 3 boys... what could that be? huh.gif

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Llewin
Posted: Nov 17 2004, 02:02 AM
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OK fain did have some ability to 'sense' the three boys, though he really was only after Rand, he just hadnt developed the ability to differentiate the *exact* ...i dont know... "smell"? of the Dragon... The three boys are super powerful ta'veren, all born within 3 weeks of one another...and we *think* all of them are mentioned in the prophecies of the dragon. There is evidence that mat is mentioned atleast once and that means most likely so is perrin and possible even others who are included in min's 'you are all involved' viewings...

However, the point i was trying to make is that a 'younger' paddan fain wouldnt have those special 'dark one's hound' abilities...he was only set to hunt the boys and given those abilities 3 years before he found them. thats my point smile.gif

now there's nothing to say that fain wouldnt have OTHER typical darkfriend abilities... moiraine says he did some REALLY dispicable stuff and RJ indicates that the REALLY bad darkfriends could 'sense eachother' and 'sense those the dark one had an interest in' etc... sense the evil of shadar logoth... etc etc...
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Pheylorn
Posted: Nov 17 2004, 02:07 AM
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Alright here it is, I appreciate any input people wish to offer.

Shadowsworn:
Hit Dice: d6

Requirements: To qualify to become a shadowsworn, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Bluff 4 ranks, Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 4 ranks
Special: Must have sworn to the service of the Shadow and have made a personal sacrifice to the Dark One. This usually takes the form of a quest or a blood sacrifice of someone close to the supplicant.

Class Skills: The shadowsworn's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Pick Pocket (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spot (Wis).
Skill points at each level: 4 + Intelligence modifier

Class Features: All of the following are class features for the shadowsworn.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Shadowsworn are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armour. Note that some armour types incur armour check penalties to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble.

Gift of the Shadow: In exchange for the shadowsworn’s unwavering loyalty and devotion, the Dark One awards him with unusual gifts and powers, with which he may better serve the Shadow's cause. At 1st level and every third level thereafter, the shadowsworn gains a dark gift, from the list below. Players may choose their gifts, or they may be granted specific or randomly determined gifts, at the GM's discretion.

Dark Fortitude*: The shadowsworn possesses unnatural endurance and tolerance for pain, and gains damage reduction 1/-. However, the shadowsworn’s newfound invulnerability makes him less sensitive and cautious, imposing a –2 penalty on Reflex saves.

Dark One's Hound: To aid in the tracking and pursuit of individuals the Dark One deems worthy of attention, the shadowsworn gains the scent ability.

Eyes of the Shadow: The shadowsworn gains darkvision up to a distance of 60 feet. However, the shadowsworn suffers a -1 penalty to all attack rolls when in bright sunlight, or when exposed to the light weave cast at 2nd level or higher.

Frightful Presence: The shadowsworn's presence is very unsettling. Any opponent who comes within 30 feet of the shadowsworn must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier). An opponent who fails the save is stricken with fear and is shaken, suffering a -2 penalty to all attacks, saves, and skill checks for 2d4 rounds. Those who successfully save against the shadowsworn's frightful presence are thereafter immune to the effect for one day. This ability is active as long as the shadowsworn is conscious and cannot be suppressed, which can greatly impede social interaction, and forces a –4 penalty to Animal Empathy, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Perform checks.

Reject the Power: Weaves of the One Power wash off the shadowsworn like water. The shadowsworn gains weave resistance 10 + class level. This immunity is drawn as much from the shadowsworn’s own inner strength as it is from the Dark One, and as such drains the recipient of 2 points of Wisdom permanently when it is granted. These points cannot be restored by any means, unless the shadowsworn renounces the Dark One and returns to the Light. This power cannot be suppressed, and thus applies even to beneficial weaves.

Sneak Attack*: A cunning and opportunistic fighter, the shadowsworn can take advantage of an enemy who has let his guard down to devastating effect. If the shadowsworn can catch an opponent who is unable to defend himself effectively from the attack, the shadowsworn can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Basically, any time the shadowsworn's target would be denied his Dexterity bonus to Defence (whether he actually has a bonus or not), or when the shadowsworn flanks a target, the shadowsworn deals an additional 2d6 damage. Should the shadowsworn score a critical hit, the extra sneak attack damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks only count as sneak attacks if the target is within 30 feet. The shadowsworn can't strike with deadly accuracy from beyond this range.
With a sap or an unarmed strike, the shadowsworn can make a sneak attack that deals subdual damage instead of normal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals normal damage to deal subdual damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty, because he must make optimal use of his weapon in order to execute a sneak attack. A shadowsworn can only sneak attack a living creature with a discernable anatomy, such as humans, torm, or trollocs. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The shadowsworn must also be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. The shadowsworn cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. If a shadowsworn gets a sneak attack bonus from another source (such as wanderer levels), the bonuses to damage stack.

Talons: The nails of the shadowsworn grow sharp and hard as iron, allowing him to make two claw attacks that deal 1d6 damage each. These claws also grant the shadowsworn a +2 bonus to Climb checks.
Tough Hide*: The shadowsworn's skin grows leathery and tough, granting him a +1 natural armour bonus to Defence. The shadowsworn moves more stiffly than before however, and suffers a –2 penalty to Balance, Escape Artist, Jump, and Tumble checks.

Wasting Touch: The merest touch from the shadowsworn may infect a target with a foul wasting disease. Upon a successful melee touch attack by the shadowsworn, the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Constitution modifier). If the target fails, he is inflicted with disease. This illness has an incubation period of 1d4 days, after which it deals 1d4 temporary Constitution damage until the victim shakes off the disease or is cured. Variants on this disease are possible, on the GM's prerogative. The shadowsworn cannot suppress this ability, and thus must shun physical contact with anyone to whom he does not wish to spread this disease.
*This gift may be taken more than once. Its effects stack.

Madness: The terrible grip the Dark One possesses over a shadowsworn's life, and the monstrous acts that he must continually commit in his master's name take quite a toll on what was, in all likelihood, an already unbalanced mind, driving the shadowsworn to the depths of madness. Like male channelers, a shadowsworn gains a Madness rating. The GM rolls 1d6 secretly to determine the starting rating. Every time the shadowsworn advances in this prestige class, the GM rolls an additional 1d6 and adds the result to the Madness rating. As the madness is due to the Dark One's tainted hold on the shadowsworn, he may eventually succumb to the vile wasting sickness that also afflicts male channelers.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level and every third level thereafter, the shadowsworn receives a bonus feat. These bonus feats must be drawn from the following list: Blind-Fight, The Dark One's Own Luck, Dodge, Heroic Surge, Improved Initiative, Infamy, Low Profile, Persuasive, Sharp-Eyed, or Stealthy.

Great Fortitude: At 3rd level, the shadowsworn gains the bonus feat Great Fortitude.

Level | Base Attack | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Defence | Reputation |
1 | +0 | +1 | +1 | +0 | Gift of The Shadow; Madness | +1 | +1 |
2 | +1 | +2 | +2 | +0 | Bonus Feat |+2 | +1 |
3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | +1 | Great Fortitude | +2 | +2 |
4 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +1 | Gift of The Shadow | +2 | +2 |
5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | +1 | Bonus Feat | +3 | +3 |
6 | +4 | +3 | +3 | +2 | | +3 | +3 |
7 | +5 | +4 | +4 | +2 | Gift of The Shadow | +4 | +4 |
8 | +6 | +4 | +4 | +2 | Bonus Feat | +4 | +4 |
9 | +6 | +4 | +4 | +3 | | +4 | +5 |
10 | +7 | +5 | +5 | +3 | Gift of The Shadow | +5 | +5 |



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Campin
Posted: Nov 19 2004, 05:05 AM
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Pheylorn,

I have to agree with Zarozynia that I think that this Shadowsworn would be better represented as a template not a Prestige class...

But these gift ideas are great! smile.gif I really like the idea of giving them madness; it just makes sense for those who gaze into the abyss. The trigger conditions should not be as sever as those for male channellers or at least they should get a bonus to the will save. Also no rotting disease...

For creating Padan Fain I took Dark Fortitude, the Dark Ones Hound (Scent) & Measure the Power +12 (makes sense for my campaign) then gave him the Madness. I figure for a Template the 2 to 1 deal worked, that is 2 power for the madness than for ever additional power add 1d6 to madness…



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This post has been edited by Campin on Nov 19 2004, 05:06 AM
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Niveus
Posted: Nov 19 2004, 10:38 AM
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just to let you know there are stats for Fain at the end of the core rule book in the mini adventure "What Follows in Shadow" they dont mention any dark powers he is just a 10 level wanderer mind you these stats are before he gets the dagger..


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Nov 19 2004, 10:45 AM
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I think this is actually a good Prestige Class. It's got good progression, good balance, and the gifts are well thought-out. Just my opinion. I think it'd be a good template too, but maybe wolfbrother should be a template, and it isn't.


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Pheylorn
Posted: Nov 19 2004, 05:36 PM
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Thanks Wolfbrother, I appreciate that. Im very happy with the class and its nice to hear such feedback.


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Nov 19 2004, 11:20 PM
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Although I'd change the prerequisites. Maybe Bluff should be 8 ranks, and the Base Attack Bonus should not be there. I could see channelers being Shadowsworn, and the BAB sorta discourages them, and Wanderers and Nobles (two popular darkfriend choices) don't qualify until 6th level at LEAST. Also, I could make a woodsman who would qualify for this after 4th level. Maybe require a feat, such as Infamy or Skill Emphasis (Bluff). I like the special requirement though.


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Pheylorn
Posted: Nov 20 2004, 08:11 PM
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Well the skill requirements are low simply because the class is meant to be taken by anyone from any walk of life. The Dark One doesnt discriminate by class, if an Armsmen or an Algai'd'siswai wanted to sacrifice their soul to him he would accept, so the class is meant to be open for that reason. I can see lowering the Base Attack bonus requirement, that wouldnt be a problem. What about replacing one of the skill requirements for Intimidate? its appropriate enough and every class gets it so it would be a good level limit. Let me know what you think.


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Nov 20 2004, 08:57 PM
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I could see Intimidate as a prereq. I still stand by requiring 8 ranks in at least one skill though.

True the Dark One takes people from all walks of life, but these seem like his elite. Bottom line, too, is that it's a Prestige Class, and it's generally accepted that you need to be at least 5th level overall to qualify for a prestige class. To make this possible, 8 ranks in one skill, +5 BAB, and other things can be done to ensure that it will happen. Anyone can follow the Dark, but these are people who have special gifts and are following a specific course.


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Pheylorn
Posted: Nov 21 2004, 07:06 PM
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Alrighty, then we just make Intimidate a required skill instead of Hide, and we make the requirement 8+ ranks. Simple.


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Nov 21 2004, 10:01 PM
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Simple! I like it.


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