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Zinuk |
Posted:
Jul 29 2004, 09:31 AM
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 62 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
Lanfear didn't sense the DO. She sensed a power that seemed to be usable by both male and female. As the only thing that attracted her is power, she though it could give channelers even more power, so she sought to tap it. And, doing so, she bored the prison. But it was only an accident. She had no idea of what she was really doing. She was only satisfying her hunger for power.
Before the bore in the DO's prison, Lanfear and all other Forsaken didn't torture people for pleasure (well, perhaps Semirhage did, but that was because she was a masochist). They were certainly not the best intented person in the world (Semirhage was a masochist, Lanfear wanted power, ...) but if the DO had not set free, they would never have done all the horrors they did, because it would never had been allowed. And if they are reborn in the next Age, say the fourth Age, and that the DO's prison is whole again, they would not know the prison even exist, so how could they work to free him? And how could people be Darkfriends if they don't even know that the DO exists? Even people that could get really evil under the right circumstances could be "normal" people under other circumstances, even if there is an evil in them that only asks to express itself. Thus, if the prison is whole, the DO would have no influence whatsoever, even indirectly. But this doesn't mean that men can't be evil. Just that their evil is not due to the DO. And this also mean that this evil can be contained by an utopian society (like the AoL). | ||||
Axel |
Posted:
Jul 29 2004, 06:33 PM
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 245 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
He could have plenty of effect indirectly. Remember
that in the form of Myth stories can be passed about 2 Ages after it
happened. The DO is a little hard to forget, his direct influence isn't
needed for people to be darkfriends, they just need to think they are.
Through the Fourth Age the people would remember Tarmon Gaidon, they would
remember the Dark One's existance. Another important point: even without
the DO's direct influence shadowspawn can continue to exist. Trollocs have
their own society, they could easily continue without any intervention by
the DO. The biggest difference is that they'd probably kill all Mydraal at
birth. -------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Aleshandre |
Posted:
Jul 29 2004, 06:51 PM
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 211 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Correction, Semirhage was a sadist, not a massochist.
Sadists like to hurt others, massochists like to hurt themselves.
-------------------- |
Zinuk |
Posted:
Jul 29 2004, 10:15 PM
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 62 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
Oops! I always mix them up. Sorry for that.
What I was saying only concerned Ages where the DO's existence has been forgotten. It was implicit in what I was saying, but you are right, I should have mentioned it. As for the 4th Age, I was thinking exactly the same thing: it would be an age where the world tried to forget the DO, by exterminating shadowspawns, healing the blight and killing all Darkfriends. Besides this very important task, there would be the problem of channelers: Asha'man vs Aes Sedai; everything depends on how Black and White Tower are going to interact between each other. And there is also the matter of the Seanchan. For all these matter, though, I fear that we don't have enough info until we read the last book of the series, which means waiting at least something like 3 or 4 years ![]() | ||||
Entropic_existence |
Posted:
Jul 30 2004, 12:05 AM
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Breaker-of-horses-and-men ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Member No.: 22 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
On the Ogier issues (yes I have the BBoBa) Ogier are
definitly NOT constructs, at least not from the Age of Legends. The guide
specificall states on page 191:
If they were genetically engineered it would need to be in an earlier age but personally I think they came through Portal Stones. -------------------- What is dead can never
die. | ||
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted:
Jul 30 2004, 09:36 PM
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 311 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I agree with your thoughts on that E_E. I believe
that either, 1) they all leave a world at one point in the turning of the
wheel and go to some other world only to return at a later Age. Or 2)
continuing with the timeline I laid out, they are killed off along with
all human kind before dinosaurs come around, and eventually arrive from
another world like Adam and Eve did maybe later than them, or maybe they
were came with them when they "fell" from Eden. They were probably the
gardeners of Eden. -------------------- It's like the blank stares of a million pairs of
blind eyes. |
Aleshandre |
Posted:
Jul 30 2004, 10:20 PM
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 211 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Bear in mind that each turning of an Age would be
dependant on 2 factors; 1) A major event that marks the "official" end of
the age and 2) The death of all people with living memory of the major
event. In an era where there are people who live hundreds of years at a
time, an Age can last for thousands of years, not including the major
event. -------------------- |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted:
Jul 30 2004, 10:47 PM
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 311 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Yep, that is why I sited things like the Flood or
similar events as things marking the end of an Age. I guess according to
your guidlines, it would require the death of Noah and his sons and their
wives before you could really say the Age ends, but that is sort of a
technicality. -------------------- It's like the blank stares of a million pairs of
blind eyes. |
Aleshandre |
Posted:
Jul 31 2004, 01:06 AM
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 211 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Right, like you could say that the Sealing of the
Bore Marked the end of the Age of Legends, or the opening of it in the
first place, or the Breaking, but the true end of the Age of Legends was
when the last Aes Sedai who lived during the Age of Legends died.
-------------------- |
amylrins_peril |
Posted:
Aug 8 2004, 06:51 AM
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Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15 Member No.: 114 Joined: 12-March 04 ![]() |
I almost hate to jump in on this one ... but since my
feet are wet, I might as well go all the way in ... and drown. 1. Randland IS earth ... but time and the perception of time is not linear (such as it is in western civilization). This is the biggest hurdle to overcome when talking about the Ages. It doesn't translate well into our thought processes. That's why the legends of Arthur/Artur Hawkwing and all those stories of Mosk the Giant/Russia and Annya the Great Counselor/Ann Landers occur both in the past and the future. 2. The DO is here to stay. Whether he "touches" the world in the same way is debatable. It was human arrogance and pride that "set him free." But the fact is the failings and sin of humanity already existed to be exploited. So no matter whatever happens at the end of the Third Age, human suffering won't end. Hopefully, there will be at least be party before the Wheel Turns Again. 3. My best guess (for whatever it is worth): The Illusions -- the ability to channel -- will be lost to the Fourth Age. Our romantic notions of magic and the supernatural will be replaced by an age of Reason. (What we've got right now.) Science will supplant the supernatural until the next great confrontation with the DO, thus rolling into the Fifth Age. The fact is Rand is preparing the world for the age of reason, which is why he is assembling the world's great thinkers and inventors into these colleges. Matt is preparing for the invention of gunpowder, and all that it portends. And "Lord" Perrin is trying to dislodge the notion of a privileged aristocracy, paving the way for republican or representative government. Now, will someone please throw me a life preserver before I go under? |
Entropic_existence |
Posted:
Aug 8 2004, 09:04 PM
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Breaker-of-horses-and-men ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Member No.: 22 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I agree....for the most part. Although I think the
4th Age (personally) is going to be a mix of the One Power and technology
and the ability to channel will be lost likely in the 5th Age or so. But
it's just my opinion and conjecture and based more on preference than any
logic or reasoning ![]() -------------------- What is dead can never
die. |
Axel |
Posted:
Aug 10 2004, 12:07 AM
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 245 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
Hold it! We've hit a major snag. Our first assumption
is that there are 7 Ages because of the 7 spokes on the Wheel (although we
are ignoring the statements that the snake consuming its own tail
{infinity} is an older symbol of eternity) However we also feel reasonably
certain that no event could be remembered more than 3 Ages. The snag is
this: we find references in WoT of our time while we also recognize
elements of our own history and legend in it. This can't possibly work
out, otherwise one age or another is remembering things that it
deffinitely shouldn't be able to. Taking our assumption that the oldest
myth possible is 3 Ages previously (-2 Age) then for the 3rd age to
remember us and us them there can only be 4 Ages.
-------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Entropic_existence |
Posted:
Aug 10 2004, 03:47 AM
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Breaker-of-horses-and-men ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Member No.: 22 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I'm of the belief that our current time is the Age
before the Age of Legends, or perhaps the one before that (this is the one
I favour). That hardly precludes the 3rd Age of having some mythological
story based on events from our Age. The Serpent of infinity predates the
Wheel of Time yes, but I hardly see how that can possibly detract from
assuming there are 7 Ages because there are seven spokes. What other
reason would there be for 7 spokes on the Wheel? For that matter if it was
irelevant why would they point out that there are seven spokes? Of course since time is circular really there is no set number of Ages... -------------------- What is dead can never
die. |
Aleshandre |
Posted:
Aug 10 2004, 03:18 PM
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 211 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
One thing that has not been mentioned is that
although "the myth is long forgotten when the Age that brought it comes
again" it doesn't mean that the myth is forgotten the age after it becomes
myth. The myth could last until just until the one age prior to the age of
its birth. In other words, The myth of Age 0 would last from Age +3 until
Age -2, then be lost by Age -1 thus being long forgotten by the begining
of Age 0 (remember that Age +3 is also Age -4).
-------------------- |
Axel |
Posted:
Aug 12 2004, 02:54 AM
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 245 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
But remember: the Age +2 is pretty much the maximum
lenght anything can be remembered. Even if we go as far as Age +3 that
still leaves us at least an Age short. I propose the possibility that the
7 spokes don't actually mean anything.
-------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted:
Aug 12 2004, 05:57 AM
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 311 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
The do mean something. We don't know what kind of
understanding of the wheel that people (or a person) had at some point. It
is probable that the symbols of the wheel and the serpent are much older
than just two ages. It could be that someone, perhaps with some Talent
gained a great understanding for the wheel and this is where the the
symbol of the Wheel was developed. That's the way that I think it
happened. -------------------- It's like the blank stares of a million pairs of
blind eyes. |
Targul |
Posted:
Aug 12 2004, 06:18 AM
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![]() Aran'shadar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 153 Member No.: 69 Joined: 29-January 04 ![]() |
Last paragraph page 13 of the BBOBA.
-------------------- I was that which others did
not want to be. I went where others feared to go, and did what others failed to do. I asked nothing from those who gave nothing, and reluctantly accepted the fact of eternal loneliness... Should I fall I have seen the face of terror, felt the stinging cold of fear, and enjoyed the sweet taste of a moments love. I have cried, pained, and hoped... But most of all I have lived times others were to say were "Best Forgotten". At least some day I will be able to say that I was proud of what I was... A United States Marine. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted:
Aug 12 2004, 03:40 PM
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 311 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
You can't just jump on here like a cowboy and site
pages and books. ![]() -------------------- It's like the blank stares of a million pairs of
blind eyes. |
Axel |
Posted:
Aug 13 2004, 02:52 AM
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 245 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
Yeah don't own the stinking book of bad art. If it
ain't in the books themselves I can't look it up.
-------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Entropic_existence |
Posted:
Aug 13 2004, 03:28 AM
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Breaker-of-horses-and-men ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Member No.: 22 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
That's the gist of it anyway. So I don't think you can propose or argue anything against it, given the BBOBA is canon. -------------------- What is dead can never
die. | ||
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