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Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 03:37
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 239 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Okay, I've got a question for those weave geniuses. ![]() I thought that I remember somewhere that the only "element" that you can weave in your sleep is Spirit. So in Tel'aran'rhiod can one only cast with Spirit? I'm assuming that if one enters Tel'aron'rhiod physically that he can cast normally. Rand and the Forsaken do it. What if you were asleep, and some one that entered physically pulled you into tel'aran'rhiod. They could cast normally, but you could not. But would you be able see the weaves cast and learn them? Can anyone clear this up? -------------------- I like swords. |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 04:43
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 130 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Assuming that the person channeling is of the same
gender, yes. When Nyn had Moggy on the adam, she saw the weaves that she
made her perform. -------------------- |
Guest_Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 07:25
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Unregistered ![]() |
Were they there physically or did they dream
themselves there? If they dreamed themselves there then I guess you can
channel more than just Spirit while sleeping. Yes? No? |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 07:27
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 239 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Sorry, I wasn't logged in. That was me asking the
question. -------------------- I like swords. |
Freya |
Posted: Feb 13 2004, 08:09
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 54 Member No.: 32 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
You can only weave Spirit in the 'waking' world while
you are asleep. ie, Weave a Spirit sheild to keep your dreams from
affecting others...cannot be tied-off, but can be maintained while asleep.
See New Spring for a description of Moraine doing just that. But, in the Tel'aran'rhiod, you can weave as normal. The big 'un-doable' thing is weaving in the Tel'aran'rhiod and affecting the Real World...like Egwene did in the Stone of Tear. This post has been edited by Freya on Feb 13 2004, 08:11 PM |
Xythlord |
Posted: Feb 14 2004, 06:20
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Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 12 Member No.: 94 Joined: 14-February 04 ![]() |
Hiya Freya, Could you please refresh my memory and tell me when was it that Egwene's channeling affected the waking world from TAR. Book and chapter would be fine. I am not challenging your assumption just wanting to re-read that section as if it were true then I would have to change some aspects of my WoT RPG Bible. Xyth ![]() |
KSBsnowowl |
Posted: Feb 14 2004, 07:22
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 125 Member No.: 35 Joined: 17-January 04 ![]() |
Hey Xyth, The part she is referring to is in the Stone of Tear near the end of TDR, where the BA had captured the wonder girls. Egwene dreamed herself into TAR to see what she could do/learn outside of their cell. When she was in the hallway outside the cell, she saw the black sister guarding their door starting to weakly show up in TAR. (the black sister was dosing off while playing with one of the dream ter'angreal). While the black sister was still only half asleep (and thus only partly in TAR) Egwene wove a shield and cut her off from the source. (and maybe bound her in air too?) She opened the cell door, and then woke back up (forgetting that you can't affect physical things in the real world from TAR). Almost immedeately after this Mat came down the hall, confused why the black sister was just sitting there staring at him with her eyes only half open, and freed the wonder girls. Sorry I can't give a page number, I don't have room for all my books at college ![]() -------------------- Patterns in the Weave: Aermon, son of
Hamiel, son of Kamm, Male Ogier Wanderer 1 This Ogier left on a Grove-tour with his Greatfather, and he hopes to replenish the decimated Groves. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. Duty is as heavy as a mountain, death as light as a feather. |
Freya |
Posted: Feb 16 2004, 08:18
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 54 Member No.: 32 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Yeah, KSB is right, but put the emphasis on the wrong
event. The big thing was that Egwene weaved Earth into the lock on
the cell door, affecting the real world lock, opening the door and
allowing them to escape. Shielding and Binding in Air the Black sister was very cool, but not so incredible because the Black sister was using a Dream ter'angreal at the time. The effect was certainly unexpected. |
drothgery |
Posted: Feb 16 2004, 08:41
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 126 Member No.: 25 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Err... the girls didn't physically get out of the
cell until Mat and Jullin let them out (though they probably wouldn't have
been able to take the key from Amico if Egwene hadn't dealt with her in
T'A'R). -------------------- |
Freya |
Posted: Feb 16 2004, 09:00
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 54 Member No.: 32 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Just because Matt physically opened the door doesn't
mean that Egwene didn't open the lock via the Power in the
Tel'aran'rhiod. She opened the lock in the Dreaming and it affected the real world. |
drothgery |
Posted: Feb 16 2004, 09:48
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 126 Member No.: 25 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
They couldn't open the door and walk out after Egwene
woke up (and were still shielded in the waking world until Nynaeve slugged
Amico). The lock was opened via conventional means (Mat took the key from
the unconcious Amico). This post has been edited by drothgery on Feb 16 2004, 09:49 PM -------------------- |
Freya |
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 12:35
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 54 Member No.: 32 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
*sigh* <sheepish apology>I concede my point. I was the one that was mistaken. </sheepish aplology> The important thing is living things can be affected in the Tel'aran'rhiod and the effect will still exist in the waking world (shielding and binding the Black sister). Non-living things, like the metal lock, cannot. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 04:14
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 703 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Only if they're asleep, and thus touching Tel'Aran'Rhiod. Otherwise, the two worlds are seperate. However, when a human goes to sleep, and they dream themselves into Tel'Aran'Rhiod, it works. You cannot channel on what you cannot see, and you cannot see people in TAR unless they're dreaming. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. | ||
/AJ |
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 08:10
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![]() Newbie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5 Member No.: 85 Joined: 8-February 04 ![]() |
Couple of Quotes (all PB versions) Just to clear it up: tDR p655 "[Egwene] woke up to all her bruises and aches and thirst, to the wall of the cell against her back, staring tightly at the tightly shut cell door. 'Of course. What happens to living things is real when they wake. What [Egwene] did to stone or iron or wood has no effect in the waking world.'" But I think a much more interesting moment is in tGH. Rand sleeps in the abandoned inn of a village near Falme on Toman Head and dreams, of Ba'alzamon. p587 "[Rand] rolled to his other side, and Ba'alzamon was standing beside the chair with the pure white length of the Dragon's banner in his hands...Rand's saddlebags lay by his feet, buckles undone, flap thrown back where the banner had been hidden." p588 "Ba'alzamon tossed the banner to the floor and put his hands on the chair back; wisps of smoke rose from between his fingers." p589 "Ba'alzamon was gone... His saddlebags stood...with the buckles done up...bulging with the...Dragon's banner... But on the chair back, tendrils of smoke still rose from the charred impressions of fingers." Anyone wanna start hazzarding guesses at how Ba'alzamon almost set fire to the decidedly-not-flesh-and-blood wood of poor Rand's chair from Tel??? :) Apart from that I know of no instances where actions in Tel' have effected the Real World. We know, though, that people can channel anything if they are in Tel (as Egwene had proved in the above example) but Moiraine states that only Spirit can be weaved (and held) when actually sleeping. I have a wacky suggestion I might throw in here :) If a powerful (non-channeling) Dreamwalker can alter her appearance, from easy bits like clothing, through to hair, height, stature, and even on to gender. Is it possible for them to alter themselves to be able to channel? Ok, ok, far out, very unlikely. But, what if a powerful (female) Dreamwalker knows the essence of the channeling ability (gleaned from seeing/achieving healing of Gentling or Stilling)? Could they alter someone to be able to channel in Tel' or, even weirder, could a woman like Egwene alter her own abilities to be able to channel Saidin (male half). Thoughts, suggestions, and general slatings please :) /AJ -------------------- |
Targul |
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 11:20
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![]() Aran'shadar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 148 Member No.: 69 Joined: 29-January 04 ![]() |
I would think that in the Dream World a powerful
dreamer should be able to do just about anything. Sure I think that they
could give themselves the ability to channel but then again not really. I
think that they should be able to make channeling like effects out of
their enviroment but would it give them the ability to channel outside of
the Dream world I would say no. And I would also say no to Egwene being
able to change to channeling saidin. These are intrinsic characteristics
of a character's soul if you will. Take Aran'gar for example male,
channels saidin but outward appearance is that of a woman. That's just my opinon. -------------------- Wait, if I DID evil, and you guys here
ARE evil. Then shouldn't you be showering me with rewards and
concubines, etc.? This is Hell we're big on irony here. Then I'm sure you'll appreciate what is going to occur. I'm dead, so this is some egoscopic projection of myself? Correct, but I hardly see what... So without any fleshy meats to slow me down, how long do you REALLY think it'll take for me to usurp your entire kingdom? I have the entire legions of Hell at my command Enjoy it while you can, Skippy. -Black Mage in Hell (8-bit theater style) |
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