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> Classes Revised, For the first time EVER!
Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: May 21 2004, 08:36 AM
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Great Fang
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To put it simply, these are the core Wheel of Time classes based on and (hopefully) balanced with classes from Dungeons and Dragons. I'm not claiming I did anything original here. In fact, it should be obvious to most people I based these on other classes.
For Defense bonus, if you're gonna have it, I'd recommend the Defense chart in Unearthed Arcana. Column A is for Algai'd'siswai and Initiate, Column B is for Wanderer, Wilder and Woodsman, and Column D is for Armsman and Noble.
As for Reputation, the Unearthed Arcana system should be fine. Use Column B for Algai'd'siswai, Wilder, and Woodsman classes, use Column C for Armsman, Initiate, and Wanderer classes, and Column D for Noble.
On a side note, I think the Sanity system in UA is superior to WoT's Madness system.
I intend to write other classes beyond these, and maybe I'll even rewrite the Prestige Classes so they are compatible with regular D&D as well. i'm not saying with this post that Wheel of Time classes need to be added to D&D, but I do think that the classes in D&D are a lot more refined and better planned. Other classes I'm mulling over: Dai'dore, Mariner, and Scholar, plus any others I may think of.
Some of the class abilities that are in the book aren't written out. You know what they do. I'll write them out later. I don't have the book in front of me right now, or else I would.
Also, sorry this looks so crappy. I posted it at three in the morning and I was tired, so I just said, "They'll figure it out." I have it saved as an rtf file if anyone wants me to email it to them once it's been refined by the general assembly here.


A NOTE ON CHANNELERS

The initiate and wilder are the channeler classes. They use weave points, and the number of weave points a channeler has increases as she gains in level.
I would recommend using the vitalizing system on pg 156 of Unearthed Arcana to reflect channeler fatigue. I'll work out more specific rules for that later.
Should a character cross-class between initiate and wilder, you add the number of weave points that class provides. Consult the following list for maximum weave level no matter what the character's class or combination of classes is.

Table: Maximum Weave Level
Channeler Level Max Weave Level
1 1st
2 1st
3 2nd
4 2nd
5 3rd
6 3rd
7 4th
8 4th
9 5th
10 5th
11 6th
12 6th
13 7th
14 7th
15 8th
16 8th
17 9th
18 9th
19 9th
20 9th

This is how much a weave costs in weave points.

Table: Maximum Weave Level
Weave Level Weave Points Cost
0 0*
1th 1
2th 3
3th 5
4th 7
5th 9
6th 11
7th 13
8th 15
9th 17
10th 19
11th 21
12th 23
13th 25
* Level 0 weaves cost no points to use. If a channeler is capable of channeling 0-level weaves, she can channel a number of 0-level weaves each day equal to three + the number of weave points gained by her primary channeling class at 1st level. After that, each level 0 weave costs a point to cast.

And here are some new channeling feats.

Extra Weave Points (Channeling)
You gain more weave points.
Benefit: You gain 2 more weave points.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once, but each time after the first grants only one additional weave point.

Great Capacity (Channeling)
You have the capacity to channel more weaves than other channelers.
Benefit: The weave point cost of individual weaves is reduced by one. This cannot reduce the weave point cost of a weave below one, and does not affect the number of 0-level weaves that can be cast per day.

Power Surge (Channeling)
You can overchannel better and more safely than other channelers.
Benefit: You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Concentration checks when overchanneling, and a +1 on the Fortitude save to avoid damage from failed overchanneling attempts.

Quicken Weave (Channeling)
You can channel weaves more quickly than other channelers.
Benefit: Channeling a quickened weave is a free action. You can perform another action, even channeling another weave, in the same round as you cast a quickened weave. You may cast only one quickened weave per round. A weave whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened.
Using this feat increases the weave point cost of the weave by 6. The weave?s total cost cannot exceed your channeler level.
Channeling a quickened weave doesn?t provoke an attack of opportunity.

Strong in the One Power (Channeling)
You are very strong in the One Power, and have the potential to be a very potent channeler.
Benefit: You gain one weave point at each level increase more than members of that class would normally be allowed. For example, Kassendra, a 1st-level initiate with this feat going on to 2nd level would gain 3 weave points instead of 2, making her total weave points per day 5.
Special: You may only take this feat at 1st level.

ALGAI'D'SISWAI

I decided to base this on the monk. Monks are good in unarmed combat, can move quickly, and get a bonus to their AC, all triats I felt fit the algai'd'siswai. I brought the Base Attack Bonus up to the same level as a fighter's, and to counterbalance that, I took away a lot of special abilities, gave them only ones that I consider somewhat weaker than the monk's (Dance the Spears progression). If you want a more powerful variant of this class, perhaps replace Dance the Spears with Bonus Feats.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills
The algai'd'siswai?s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Algai'd'siswai
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus Unarmed Damage1 AC Bonus Unarmored Speed Bonus
1st +1 +0 +1 +0 Flurry of blows, unarmed strike ?1/?1 1d4 +0 +0 ft.
2nd +2 +0 +2 +0 Dance the spears +2, evasion +0/+0 1d4 +0 +0 ft.
3rd +3 +1 +2 +1 +1/+1 1d4 +0 +10 ft.
4th +4 +1 +2 +1 Uncanny dodge +2/+2 1d4 +0 +10 ft.
5th +5 +1 +3 +1 +4/+4 1d4 +1 +10 ft.
6th +6/+1 +2 +3 +2 Dance the spears +4 +5/+5/+0 1d4 +1 +20 ft.
7th +7/+2 +2 +4 +2 +6/+6/+1 1d6 +1 +20 ft.
8th +8/+3 +2 +4 +2 Improved evasion +7/+7/+2 1d6 +1 +20 ft.
9th +9/+4 +3 +4 +3 +9/+9/+4 1d6 +1 +30 ft.
10th +10/+5 +3 +5 +3 Dance the spears +6 +10/+10/+5 1d6 +2 +30 ft.
11th +11/+6/+1 +3 +5 +3 +11/+11/+11/+6/+1 1d6 +2 +30 ft.
12th +12/+7/+2 +4 +6 +4 Greater flurry +12/+12/+12/+7/+2 1d6 +2 +40 ft.
13th +13/+8/+3 +4 +6 +4 +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 1d8 +2 +40 ft.
14th +14/+9/+4 +4 +6 +4 Dance the spears +8 +14/+14/+14/+9/+4 1d8 +2 +40 ft.
15th +15/+10/+5 +5 +7 +5 +15/+15/+15/+10/+5 1d8 +3 +50 ft.
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +7 +5 Improved uncanny dodge +16/+16/+16/+11/+6 1d8 +3 +50 ft.
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +8 +5 +17/+17/+17/+12/+7 1d8 +3 +50 ft.
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +8 +6 Dance the spears +10 +18/+18/+18/+13/+8 1d8 +3 +60 ft.
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +8 +6 +19/+19/+19/+14/+9 1d8 +3 +60 ft.
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +9 +6 Hide in plain sight +20/+20/+20/+15/+10 1d8 +4 +60 ft.
1 The value shown is for Medium algai'd'siswai. See Table: Small or Large Algai'd'siswai Unarmed Damage for Small or Large algai'd'siswai.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the algai'd'siswai.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Algai'd'siswai are proficient with all simple weapons except swords. Algai'd'siswai are not proficient with any armor but are with bucklers.
When wearing armor, using a shield other than a buckler, or carrying a medium or heavy load, an algai'd'siswai loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the algai'd'siswai adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a algai'd'siswai gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five algai'd'siswai levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the algai'd'siswai is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield (besides a buckler), or when she carries a medium or heavy load.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): When unarmored, am algai'd'siswai may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a ?2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Algai'd'siswai. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the algai'd'siswai might make before her next action. When an algai'd'siswai reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to ?1, and at 9th level it disappears. An algai'd'siswai must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.
When using flurry of blows, an algai'd'siswai may attack only with unarmed strikes or with a shortspear or dagger. She may attack with unarmed strikes and spears or daggers as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, an algai'd'siswai applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x 1/2) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The algai'd'siswai can?t use any weapon other than a shortspear or dagger as part of a flurry of blows.
When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus.
Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, an algai'd'siswai gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. An algai'd'siswai?s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that an algai'd'siswai may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for an algai'd'siswai striking unarmed. An algai'd'siswai may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
Usually an algai'd'siswai?s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
An algai'd'siswai?s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
An algai'd'siswai also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Algai'd'siswai. The unarmed damage on Table: The Algai'd'siswai is for Medium algai'd'siswai. A Small algai'd'siswai deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large algai'd'siswai deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Algai'd'siswai Unarmed Damage.

Table: Small or Large Algai'd'siswai Unarmed Damage
Level Damage
(Small Algai'd'siswai) Damage
(Large Algai'd'siswai)
1st?3rd 1d4 1d8
4th?7th 1d6 2d6
8th?11th 1d8 2d8
12th?15th 1d10 3d6
16th?19th 2d6 3d8
20th 2d8 4d8

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher if an algai'd'siswai makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if an algai'd'siswai is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless algai'd'siswai does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, an algai'd'siswai gains an enhancement bonus to her speed, as shown on Table: The Algai'd'siswai. An algai'd'siswai in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Improved Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a monk?s evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Dance the Spears: Starting at 2nd level, and every fourth level thereafter, the algai'd'siswai gains this bonus to her Initiative checks.
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

ARMSMAN

OK, this one's quite simple. I based it on fighter, took away the first level bonus feat, and added 2 points of skill points per level. I personally think that balances out since armsmen pick feats that help them in combat and skills are generally less their focus. I think Wheel of Time armsmen are different in that way from D&D fighters, in that they are generally potentially more skillful and it's a world where skills are more important more often than combat. For a more powerful variant class of this, take away two skill points per level and add a bonus feat at 1st level.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills
The armsman?s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Armsman
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Bonus feat
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bonus feat
5th +5 +4 +1 +1
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Bonus feat
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bonus feat
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Bonus feat
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Bonus feat
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bonus feat

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the armsman.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An armsman is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
Bonus Feats: The armsman gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two armsman levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as armsman bonus feats. An armsman must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. An armsman is not limited to the list of armsman bonus feats when choosing these feats.

INITIATE

OK, this is a somewhat new idea, though I think people have mentioned this kind of system before. This is based on the psion class. I took away the number of powers known, so that there's no limit now. They still are limited to weave level outside their talents, and their bonus feats stay the way a psion's does for two reasons: it's been playtested and deemed balanced with the other classes, and also this weave system makes them even more dangerous and potent than before.
Their skill points are higher because, well, for the same reasons as the armsman's. I decided they should start with two Talents because they get less bonus feats than the Initiate in the book, and having multiple Talents is very important, and it follows the book a little more. See the bottom of this post for details about Weave Points. If you want a more powerful variant of this class, add a second Affinity in exchange for 2 skill points per level.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d4.

Class Skills
The initiate?s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Composure (Wis), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually)* (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Weavesight (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Initiate
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Weave Points/
Day
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Bonus feat, Talents 2
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 ? 4
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Slow aging 7
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 ? 11
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus feat 16
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 ? 24
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 ? 33
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 ? 44
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 ? 56
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus feat 72
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 ? 88
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 ? 104
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 ? 120
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 ? 136
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Bonus feat 152
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 ? 168
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 ? 184
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 ? 200
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 ? 216
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bonus feat 232

Class Features
All the following are class features of the initiate.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Initiates are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, quarterstaff, and shortspear. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor does not, however, interfere with the channeling of weaves.
Weave Points/Day: An initiate?s ability to channel weaves is limited by the weave points he has available. His base daily allotment of weave points is given on Table: The Initiate. In addition, he receives bonus weave points per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Weave Points). His race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items.
Weaves: An initiate begins play knowing three weaves of your choice. He may learn more by observation, learning, and study.
Once these weaves are taught to the initiate, he must make a weavesight check (DC 10+weave's level) to learn the new weave. You cannot learn weaves above 0 level from Talents other than your chosen Talents. (Exception: The feat Extra Talent does allow an initiate to learn powers from the lists of other Talents.) An initiate can manifest any power that has a weave point cost equal to or lower than his initiate level.
The number of times an initiate can manifest powers in a day is limited only by his daily power points before he starts overchanneling.
An initiate simply knows his weaves; they are ingrained in his mind. He does not need to prepare them, though he must get a good night?s sleep each day to regain all his spent weave points.
The Difficulty Class for saving throws against weaves is 10 + the power?s level + the initiate?s Intelligence modifier.
Maximum Power Level: An initiate begins play with the ability to channel 1st-level weaves without overchanneling. As he attains higher levels, an initiate may gain the ability to channel more complex weaves without overchanneling.
To learn or channel a weave, an initiate must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the weave?s level.
Talents: The initiate begins play with two Talents.
Slow Aging: As in the core rulebook.
Bonus Feats: An initiate gains a bonus feat at 1st level, 5th level, 10th level, 15th level, and 20th level. This feat must be a channeling feat.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feats that a character of any class gains every three levels. An initiate is not limited to channeling feats when choosing these other feats.

NOBLE

This one's actually based on the Forgotten Realms noble. I think it's very well done, and balanced with the other 3.5 classes quite nicely. I changed it up a bit. I personally consider the noble class the "wild card" class. For a more powerful variant, give them 2 more skill points per level and spread their favor progression to +2 at 5th level, +3 at 10th level, +4 at 15th level, and +5 at 20th.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The noble?s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Composure (Wis), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int, exclusive skill), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Speak Language (none).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Noble
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Bonus class skill, favor +1
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Inspire confidence 1/day
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Favor +2
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Coordinate +1
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Inspire confidence 2/day
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Favor +3
7th +5 +5 +2 +5
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Coordinate +2
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Favor +4, inspire confidence 3/day
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Inspire greatness (1 ally)
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Favor +5, coordinate +3
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Inspire confidence 4/day
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Inspire greatness (2 allies)
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Favor +6
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Coordinate +4
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Inspire confidence 5/day, inspire greatness (3 allies)
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Favor +7
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Coordinate +5, inspire greatness (4 allies)

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the noble.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A noble is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armor, and shields (except tower shields).
Bonus Class Skill: At 1st level, a noble may designate any one cross-class skill as a class skill. This represents an area of "illicit" or "unapproved" expertise.
Favor: The noble can call on the influence of their position to get information or resources. To make a Favor check, roll a d20 and add the character?s Favor bonus. The GM sets the DC of the Favor based on what is being requested. The DC ranges from 10 for simple favors to 30 for extremely difficult or dangerous ones. A noble may call in a Favor a number of times per week equal to their Favor bonus.
Inspire Confidence: A few words of encouragement inspire confidence in a small group of allies. Allies must listen and observe the noble for 1 round and the noble must make a Diplomacy check (DC 15). A number of allies affected equals 1/2 the character?s noble level (round down) may be affected. Inspired allies gain +1 morale bonuses to all saves, skill checks, attacks and damage rolls. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to 10 plus the character?s Charisma bonus.
Coordinate: A noble has a knack for getting people to work together. When the noble can aid others and give direction, he provides a bonus to the task at hand by making an aid another check. This bonus is in addition to the normal aid another bonus of +2, and it increases as the noble gains levels. So, the noble provides a total +3 bonus at 4th level (+2 aid another bonus, +1 cooperation bonus), a +4 bonus at 8th level, etc.
This ability can't be used to assist in combat.
Inspire Greatness: Beginning at 11th level, a noble can inspire greatness in an ally, granting extra fighting capability. This works similar to inspire confidence, except it affects but a single ally. An ally inspired with greatness gains +2d6 temporary hit points, a +2 competence bonus to attacks, and a +2 bonus to saving throws. The effect lasts for 5 rounds. The noble can inspire greatness once per day. For every three noble levels attained beyond 11th level, the noble can inspire one additional ally.
The noble can't inspire greatness in himself. The ability only aids his allies.

WANDERER

Based on the rogue. I decided to make him less combat-oriented (weakening the Sneak Attack feature), less trap-based (taking away Trapfinding and delaying their Trap Sense), and more skill and feat-focused. I think that's the whole point of the wanderer, is his skills and unusual abilities. Wanna fight? Be an armsman or woodsman. Wanna affect people? Be a noble. Wanna channel? Be an initiate or wilder. Wanna be really good at a lot of skills and have a lot of feats? Be a wanderer. They can still fight, and affect people, but now they are more focused on being a wandering traveler, an explorer of the next horizon, a learner of pretty much anything. I replaced their lost abilities with bonus feats (and quite a list of feats to choose from) to reflect their versatility and unusual abilities. To make a more powerful variant, replace the trap sense progression with the normal rogue sneak attack progression.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6.

Class Skills
The wanderer?s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (8 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier.

Table: The Wanderer
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Barter
2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Evasion, bonus feat
3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack +2d6
4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Uncanny dodge
5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Trap sense +1, bonus feat
6th +4 +2 +5 +2
7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak attack +3d6
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Improved uncanny dodge, bonus feat
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Trap sense +2
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Special ability
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +3 Sneak attack +4d6, bonus feat
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Trap sense +3, special ability
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +4 Bonus feat
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +5 Sneak attack +5d6
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Special ability
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Trap senese +4, bonus feat
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Sneak attack +6d6, special ability
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Bonus feat

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the wanderer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Wanderers are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. Wanderers are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Barter: At 1st level, the wanderer gains +5 to all Appraise and Diplomacy checks made to evaluate, buy, or sell equipment.
Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, and every three levels thereafter (5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th) the wanderer gains a bonus feat. This feat must be taken from the following list. A wanderer must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A wanderer is not limited to the list of wanderer bonus feats when choosing these feats. The list includes the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dark One's Own Luck, Deceitful, Deft Hands, Diligent, Dodge, Endurance, Eyes in the Back of Your Head, Fleet of Foot, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Investigator, Jack of All Trades, Knock-Down, Leadership, Lightning Reflexes, Mounted Combat, Negotiator, Nimble Fingers, Persuasive, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Run, Self-Sufficient, Shield Proficiency, Skill Focus, Stealthy, Toughness, Track, and Weapon Finesse.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a wanderer can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the wanderer is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless wanderer does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Sneak Attack: If a wanderer can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The wanderer?s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the wanderer flanks her target. This extra damage is 2d6 at 3rd level, and it increases by 1d6 every four wanderer levels thereafter. Should the wanderer score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.
Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a wanderer can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual ?4 penalty.
A wanderer can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies?undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The wanderer must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A wanderer cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a wanderer can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a wanderer already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.
Trap Sense (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a wanderer gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 every four wanderer levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th level). Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A wanderer of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies another wanderer the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more wanderer levels than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum wanderer level required to flank the character.
Special Abilities: On attaining 10th level, and at every three levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th), a wanderer gains a special ability of her choice from among the following options.
Crippling Strike (Ex): A wanderer with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.
Defensive Roll (Ex): The wanderer can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per day, when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the wanderer can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the wanderer must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll?if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can?t use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the wanderer?s evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.
Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that while the wanderer still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless wanderer does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Lucky Strike: Once per day, the wanderer may reroll a missed attack roll immediately after the attack roll fails. This doesn't represent two attacks, but rather replaces the first roll. She must take the result of the second roll, even if it's worse than the original roll.
Opportunist (Ex): Once per round, the wanderer can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as the wanderer?s attack of opportunity for that round. Even a wanderer with the Combat Reflexes feat can?t use the opportunist ability more than once per round.
Skill Mastery: The wamderer becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions.
Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A wanderer may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for it to apply to each time.
Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability represents the wanderer?s ability to wriggle free from One Power effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a wanderer with slippery mind is affected by a Conjunction weave or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.
Feat: A wanderer may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability.

WILDER

This one's even more unique than the initiate. I decided that a wilder, since she doesn't spend as much time studying the one power, would probably be more capable in combat, like all the other classes. I see no reason why a wilder shouldn't be as capable as a wanderer or a noble in combat. To reflect this, I based this class on the Psychic Warrior. I was originally gonna use the Wilder class from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, but then I suddenly realized they were completely not like Wheel of Time Wilders after all. Wilders get less Weave Points than initiates, and no bonus feats. This is counterbalanced by their hit points per level and also their base attack bonus progression. They still can channel the same levels of weaves. They also still get the block. Also, their main channeling ability is now Intelligence, just like the Inititiate's. Mainly, what I was trying to do is make a channeling class that's weaker in the One Power overall than the initiate, but more powerful in pretty much everything else, because it occurs to me that initiates spend their time studying the One Power, increasing their abilities in that, while the wilder is doing her own thing. They also get two Talents to begin with, because again, less bonus feats. To make a more powerful variant wilder, give them a bonus feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels and make their base attack bonus progression the same as a wizard's.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6.

Class Skills
The wilder's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Composure (Wis), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Weavesight (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Wilder
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Weave Points/Day
1st +0 +2 +0 +0 Block, talents 0*
2nd +1 +3 +0 +0 0*
3rd +2 +3 +1 +1 Slow aging 1
4th +3 +4 +1 +1 5
5th +3 +4 +1 +1 6
6th +4 +5 +2 +2 9
7th +5 +5 +2 +2 14
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +2 17
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +3 22
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +3 29
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +3 34
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +4 41
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +4 50
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +4 57
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +5 67
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 81
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 95
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 113
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 133
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 144
*The wilder gains no power points from his class at 1st or 2nd level. However, he does add any bonus power points he gains from a high Intelligence score and feats or other sources to his reserve. He can use these points (if any) to manifest his weaves.

*The wilder gains no power points from his class at 1st level. However, he does add any bonus power points he gains from a high Intelligence score and feats or other sources to his reserve. He can use these points (if any) to manifest his weaves.

Class Features
All the following are class features of the wilder.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Wilders are proficient with all simple weapons, with light armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Weave Points/Day: A wilder?s ability to channel weaves is limited by the weave points he has available. His base daily allotment of weave points is given on Table: The Wilder. In addition, he receives bonus weave points per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Weave Points). His race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items.
Weaves: A wilder begins play knowing three weaves of your choice. He may learn more by observation, learning, study, or discovery.
Once these weaves are taught to the wilder, he must make a weavesight check (DC 10+weave's level) to learn the new weave. You cannot learn weaves above 2nd level from Talents other than your chosen Talents. (Exception: The feat Extra Talent does allow a wilder to learn powers from the lists of other Talents.) A wilder can manifest any power that has a weave point cost equal to or lower than his wilder level.
The number of times a wilder can manifest powers in a day is limited only by his daily power points before he starts overchanneling.
A wilder simply knows his weaves; they are ingrained in his mind. He does not need to prepare them, though he must get a good night?s sleep each day to regain all his spent weave points.
The Difficulty Class for saving throws against weaves is 10 + the power?s level + the wilder?s Intelligence modifier.
Maximum Power Level: A wilder begins play with the ability to channel 1st-level weaves without overchanneling. As he attains higher levels, a wilder may gain the ability to channel more complex weaves without overchanneling.
To learn or channel a weave, a wilder must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the weave?s level.
Block:
Slow Aging: As in the core rulebook.

WOODSMAN

This one's based on the ranger. I took away the ranger's animal companion and replaced it with Improved Initiative, replaced Favored Enemy with Nature's Warrior (which I think fits them better, seeing as there isn't a huge variety of monster types), replaced spells with a higher hit die, and added three new types of Combat Styles. For a more powerful variant, allow them to choose two combat styles and reduce their hit die to d8.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills
The woodsman?s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Table: The Woodsman
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Nature's warrior (1st), track, wild empathy
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Combat style
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Endurance
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Improved initiative
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Nature's warrior (2nd)
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Improved combat style
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Woodland stride
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Swift tracker
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Evasion
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Nature's warrior (3rd)
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Combat style mastery
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Camouflage
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Nature's warrior (4th)
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Hide in plain sight
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Nature's warrior (5th)

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the woodsman.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A woodsman is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor, and shields (except tower shields).
Nature's Warrior:
Track: A woodsman gains Track as a bonus feat.
Wild Empathy (Ex): A woodsman can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The woodsman rolls 1d20 and adds his woodsman level and his Charisma bonus to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.
To use wild empathy, the woodsman and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, a woodsman must select one of five combat styles to pursue: archery, cunning, fierce combat, defensive, or two-weapon combat. This choice affects the character?s class features but does not restrict his selection of feats or special abilities in any way.
If the woodsman selects archery, he is treated as having the Rapid Shot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selects cunning, he is treated as having the Dodge feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selects fierce combat, he is treated as having the Power Attack feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selects defensive, he is treated as having the Combat Expertise feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selects two-weapon combat, he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
The benefits of the woodsman?s chosen style apply only when he wears light armor or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.
Endurance: A woodsman gains Endurance as a bonus feat at 3rd level.
Improved Initiative: A woodsman gains Improved Initiative as a bonus feat at 4th level.
Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a ranger?s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selected cunning at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Mobility feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selected fierce combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Cleave feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selected defensive at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Trip feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
As before, the benefits of the woodsman?s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.
Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a ranger may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment.
However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him.
Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a ranger can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal ?5 penalty. He takes only a ?10 penalty (instead of the normal ?20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.
Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Combat Style Mastery (Ex): At 11th level, a ranger?s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves again. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Precise Shot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selected cunning at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Spring Attack feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selected fierce combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Great Cleave feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selected defensive at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Knock-Down feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
If the woodsman selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.
As before, the benefits of the woodsman?s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.
Camouflage (Ex): A woodsman of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn?t grant cover or concealment.
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a woodsman of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

I imagine overchanneling and stuff like that work much in the same way. Run out of weave points, overchannel. Need to cast a weave above your weave level max, overchannel. It didn't take me very long to write this up, and I haven't playtested it, so I probably haven't thought of all the rules changes. But there you have it.
Anyways, lemme know what you think. I know this isn't anything particularly original or anything. I just decided to see what I could do with the D&D core classes to make Wheel of Time classes more stable and see if I could even improve them. I dunno if anybody will use these, but I thought I'd throw them out there and see what everyone thought. I would appreciate any comments.

This post has been edited by Two Rivers Wolfbrother on Jun 7 2004, 08:21 AM


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Primal Paladin22
Posted: May 21 2004, 09:10 AM
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You could do a Gaidan class based on the Samari from Oriental Adventures. I like this idea, and what you have done so far. I think you should rewrite at least the Warder Pr and do away with the cleave connection. I think Jon said something about that. It sucks to have to either A waste a feat taking it early or B have to wait until sixth level to get it.


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: May 21 2004, 09:21 AM
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Yeah, I'm considering redoing something samurai-based, and also perhaps a swashbuckler. Warder? Hmm, never much cared for that PrC, but maybe if I redid it, I'd like it more! Thanks for the input Primal Pal! ...22


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MagusRogue
Posted: May 21 2004, 02:31 PM
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hrm.... well, the wanderer idea is interesting, but i think true Thieving stuff should be left as a PrC, honestly. In fact i renamed the old Thief Taker PrC into a Larcenist, but i'm still flipping over what to change Capture to. dunno...

anyhow, looks good. not the revisions i'd use (i got my own. noble's a tad different, as my revised noble and wanderer are based on the revisions in star wars, and algai is now a prc based on the Dervish, but with the changes: Change the last requirement from Weapon Focus (slashing weapons) to "either Weapon Focus (aiel spear, knife, or unarmed) or Weapon Finesse," and the battle dance can be done only with an aiel spear, knife, or unarmed, which also get the attack bonus; lastly, slashing blades feature needs to be stabbing spears and apply to aiel spears).

Swashbuckler works insanely well in Wheel of Time, and is great as an alternate Aiel class. Just have to change the Armor proficiencies from Light Armor to Shields. Give it still the C armor progresison, like a wanderer, though. very good class for an aiel, especially when you branch off into Algai PrC I suggested, when aiel spears suddenly become light weapons.

I don't know about the samurai class.... i'll have to sit on that one.

As a suggestion for a revision on Nature's Warrior, What i did was make it into a Favored Terrain ability. Choose a terrain, and you get a +2 bonus on the following skills while in said terrain: Spot, Listen, Search, Survival; and a +1 on attacks. Change Woodland Stealth to the following: You now gain a +2 bonus on move silently and hide checks while in your favored terrain; if your favored terrain is taken more than once, double the bonus for every time you take it. that makes the abilities more useful, i think.

Sorry for suddenly bumping into your revisions and suggesting ones i use. it's a fault of mine. *Grins* One question i have is how are you using Armor Compatability? Do arsmsmen no longer get this feature?


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: May 21 2004, 04:19 PM
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One of the reasons I wanted to use the D&D-based classes was because I don't like Armor Compatibility. Armsmen don't get it in this version. I think the Defense bonus system in Unearthed Arcana would work fine for all the classes, if you think you need a defense bonus at all. I personally think it's good. And, armor can be used using the damage reduction chart! Or, if you don't use the Defense chart at all, just use armor normally. Like in D&D!


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MagusRogue
Posted: May 21 2004, 05:26 PM
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Yeah, the UA defense thing's pretty cool. Umm... so you're saying, either have a higher defense due to class, or have a lower one plus a DR? hrm...

BTW, for those of you who don't have UA, their Armor as DR rule is this: Halve the defense bonus granted by the armor (round down of course); this is the DR it grants. Subtract the DR from it's original Defense Bonus and you'll have it's new defense bonus. Now, when you wear armor, you get a small boost in Defense, but more importantly, you get Damage Reduction. For Example, Chainmail grants a +5 defense bonus. in these rules, it now grants a DR of 2 and a +3 Defense bonus.

remember though if you're using damage reduction, energy attacks (either from weaves or natural occurances) ignores your DR, as does any weave that directly attacks you (such as Rend or Touch of Death). DR provides it's DR against any weapon (including ones made with Tool of Air, but not including Fiery Sword) or natural non-energy damage (such as falling).


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Axel
Posted: May 21 2004, 09:43 PM
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I don't like your wanderer at all. One of the reasons I despise Rogue so much is that the class, while weaker than the previous Thief, is still thief based. I prefer the existing revised Wanderer that is far more versatile and can actually act as its name implies.
However I agree that Wilder would be more combat ready, which is why in my revised system I put him in the same category as Wanderer, assuming he was as powerful in melee as the Wanderer.

anyway, this isn't the revision I'd use either.


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: May 21 2004, 11:46 PM
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You got me partially right, MagusRogue. Just treat it like D&D, basically. If you think the D&D classes should have a higher Defense, use the system in UA. As for armor and the DR system, I would think that maybe if you use the Damage chart in UA along with these classes, a possible way to still include armor would be to use that armor chart, but only the DR part of it, not the AC bonus part. For example, a 1st-level armsman wearing hide armor. According to the chart, the armsman gets +6 to his Defense (plus other modifiers, of course). If the DM permits, he could wear the hide armor, and instead of replacing the +6 Class Defense Bonus with the +2 Hide armor bonus (or even the normal +4), he would get the DR 1/-- ONLY. So, if his Dex modifier was +1 he'd have an AC of 17, and DR 1/--. This is only IF you decide to use the Defense bonus at all. I personally think it makes non-combat characters a bit safer in combat. I don't know if that cleared things up. Basically, either use the Defense chart and no armor or only the DRs according to the chart in UA, or use it with the standard D&D rules where there isn't a Class Defense chart, and use armor either as it is presented in the PH, or using BOTH columns of the DR chart.
Axel, I don't think it's possible to satisfy you with the v3.5 rules (or v3.0 for that matter). Thanks for your words, though. It might be weaker than the previous thief, but I think it's balanced with the other classes. I could be wrong, though. I am not trying to make the wanderer thief-based, I'm trying to make him skill-based. You could play a wanderer who doesn't even have ranks in Sleight of Hand or Open Lock, or Move Silently, or whatever else. It's supposed to be broader than just "the Thief."


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Primal Paladin22
Posted: May 22 2004, 02:19 AM
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Just a quik thought, one I have had from the first time I read the wanderer class. I believe the wanderer should be based on the Bard rather than the Rouge, with maybe some elements of the scoundrel and the fringer from the starwars RPG.

Just my thought.

Peace
J


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Ezre Gael Bain Iavas
Posted: May 28 2004, 08:41 PM
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I like the changes made to the Algai' siswai (I know I must have spelled something wrong there). I always thought they should get better unarmed fighting, since it really fits with the way Jordon portrays them. They just seem like the should be able to clean your clock without a pointy stick. You know? I also like the evasion part, since Aiel seem very quick and agile.

By the way. I'm prettier than you. tongue.gif

Ezre biggrin.gif


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Mantyluoto
Posted: May 28 2004, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE
By the way. I'm prettier than you.


ok where did that come from?


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: May 28 2004, 08:51 PM
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Well, I didn't invent Evasion, and the book version already had it, but yeah, I think it fits.
As for unarmed combat, I agree. I think if they're in a battle or something, they're gonna be very lethal with their fists and such. My only concern is that eventually they become a lot more powerful with fists than with spears. I think I'm going to tone down the unarmed damage.


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Ezre Gael Bain Iavas
Posted: May 28 2004, 08:51 PM
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The bitterness of my own soul. HAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAA!!! (evil laughter). Actually, I'm just paying him back from a barb he gave me a long time ago in a post. (Yes I am slow, but I do get my revenge!) Besides, its true. All girls are prettier than guys. (Unless you're Orlando Bloom)

Ezre


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Ezre Gael Bain Iavas
Posted: May 28 2004, 08:55 PM
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Curses! TRW beat my post and now my reply makes no sense! I've been thwarted! (I was responding to the post before by Mantyloo just to make things clear. )Yeah, I guess you're right about becoming too strong in unarmed combat. Tone things down, but still leave definite advantages. By the way, If I make stupid rule mistakes, and sound really dumb in posts, its simply from extreme ignorance. cool.gif

Ezre


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Ezre Gael Bain Iavas
Posted: May 28 2004, 08:58 PM
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AAAAAGGGHHHH!!!! I spelled Mantyluoto Mantyloo! I'm terribly sorry for my egregious error man! This just hasn't been my day! Perhaps I should stop posting for the day since I am in an extremely weird mental state that is making me babble and spell horribly, and no one wants to see that! Much apologies to all.

Ezre


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Mantyluoto
Posted: May 28 2004, 09:05 PM
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you were lucky there Ezre i was just getting my kipper of slapping out to give you a whack biggrin.gif


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: May 28 2004, 09:06 PM
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Alright, Ezre, take a breather.
Yeah, I'll tone it down. One thing I really wanted to know about was the balance of the Wilder vs. Initiate. Do you guys like the Weave Point System? Do you think the two classes are good representations of the book differences? I'm just curious.
I'm currently working on recreating the prestige classes in the book: Aes Sedai, Asha'man, Blademaster, Commander, Gleeman, Thief-Taker, Warder, Windfinder, Wise One, and Wolfbrother.After that, I'm gonna do more base classes (dai'dore, etc), then more prestige classes.


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Kakita Aramoro
Posted: May 31 2004, 05:41 AM
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one thing, for level by level balance, dont have your wanderer gaining bonus feats at lvl 1, 3, 6.... you already have regular feats at thse levels. should move them to something like 2nd, 5th, 8th....
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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: May 31 2004, 10:02 AM
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A very good point. Thanks, my mainest man!


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Zarozynia
Posted: May 31 2004, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (Primal Paladin22 @ May 22 2004, 02:19 AM)
Just a quik thought, one I have had from the first time I read the wanderer class. I believe the wanderer should be based on the Bard rather than the Rouge, with maybe some elements of the scoundrel and the fringer from the starwars RPG.


The Wanderer is pretty close to the Scoundrel class from Starwards, Prime Paladin. Addmittedly, I haven't played a wanderer in the Wot (as I GM the only WoT game I've only had the priveledge of being around) but I played a Scoundrel in the last starwars game that we played, and they seem fairly comperable. Very skill based, definately, dark ones own luck is pretty much lucky, the only difference is the scoundrel plus one to attack or damage (I forget the official name). What about fringer would you use? The only class ability that I can think of off-hand was jury rig, which obviously doesn't apply. wink.gif


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