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> Weaves, Casting levels
Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 05:26 PM
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How can a channeler cast a higher level weave than they have weave slots. Since the weave slots only go up to 9th level would casting a level 13 weave require overchanneling?


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Jacob_Stroh
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 05:28 PM
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overchanelling or angreal/sangreal or a circle would sufice.


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LuciusT
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 05:41 PM
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Also affinities.

Casting level and weave slot level really have only a passing relationship in d20 WoT.
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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 05:49 PM
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So if a level 17 wilder wanted to cast BALEFIRE using a level 13 weave slot, they have all 5 affinities, and a level 3 angreal. So it wouldn't be using a level 13 slot, it would be using a level 9 slot instead. But my question is, is it possible to cast a higher level weave without an angreal or the affinities? just using natural casting level?


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LuciusT
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (Blaeric Fen @ Feb 4 2004, 05:49 PM)
So if a level 17 wilder wanted to cast BALEFIRE using a level 13 weave slot, they have all 5 affinities, and a level 3 angreal. So it wouldn't be using a level 13 slot, it would be using a level 9 slot instead. But my question is, is it possible to cast a higher level weave without an angreal or the affinities? just using natural casting level?

Weave slots only go up to 9th. Beyond that, you need some kind of boost.
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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 06:07 PM
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Dang, I guess they're gonna have to get an angreal then.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 07:04 PM
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also (and one of the most stupid rules ever to be implimented in DnD), to cast a 13th level weave, you have to have a Primary Channeling Ability (int for initiates, wis for wilders; note that i just use wisdom for both) of 23.
According to d20, to cast any spell, you must have an Ability equal to 10 + the casting level. As this is a 13th level weave, 10 + 13 = you need a wisdom or intelligence of 23.
If you don't have that score, the only way to cast it is with an Angreal, which raises your effective ability by it's power increase. So, to go with your example, if your wilder has a wisdom of 17, he needs a +6 sa'angreal to cast that weave.

Now, personally, I've NEVER followed this rule in DnD. EVER. It's one of the worst things they did, an old hold-over from 2e. It's up to you if you ignore this rule or not.


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KSBsnowowl
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (Blaeric Fen @ Feb 4 2004, 12:07 PM)
Dang, I guess they're gonna have to get an angreal then.

Well, if the individual had all 5 affinities the 13th level effect only requires a 12th level slot. The individual could then overchannel 3 levels, turning a 9th level slot into a 12th level slot. Thus, someone with all 5 affinities and a prime casting stat of 22 could produce the 13th level BF weave without any assistance. (Unless you count the 13th level effect as requiring a stat of 23, even though the slot expended is 12th level - I'm not sure which is correct.)

But, if the individual(s) you are talking about have at least one female channeler (and a second channeler of either sex), then they could link and bump the slot one more - requiring you to only overchannel two levels.


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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 08:04 PM
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So no matter what, casting a level 13 weave would require a 23 wis or int, and the use of either overchanneling with the affinities, linking, or an angreal/sa'angreal?


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KSBsnowowl
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 08:13 PM
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Casting a 13th level weave unaided would require a stat of 23 (or possibly 22). An angreal adds its '+' to your casting stat too, and thus allows you to cast a weave that you normally could not. In other words, as long as you are capable of casting the highest level weaves to which you have access (ex- you have 7th level weaves and at least a 17 stat), then you will be able to cast a higher level weave with an angreal even if you do not have a casting stat of [10+ weave level] equal to the level of weave you are attempting.

I am unsure if linking allows you to circumvent the ability requirement or not; but an Angreal will.


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Patterns in the Weave: Aermon, son of Hamiel, son of Kamm, Male Ogier Wanderer 1
This Ogier left on a Grove-tour with his Greatfather, and he hopes to replenish the decimated Groves.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Duty is as heavy as a mountain, death as light as a feather.
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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 08:17 PM
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What affect, do you think, would there be on a campaign if the [10=weave level] rule was removed? would it be that dramatic?


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LuciusT
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 08:27 PM
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QUOTE (Blaeric Fen @ Feb 4 2004, 08:17 PM)
What affect, do you think, would there be on a campaign if the [10=weave level] rule was removed? would it be that dramatic?

Yes. It would be.

That said, I think bonuses from affinities, angreal, linking or overchanneling allow a channeler to go beyond that limit. The whole point of at least the last three is to allow channelers to exceed that amount of Power which is normally safe for them to handle.

With an angreal, a strong enough Circle and a good Concentration score, a lot is possible... if you accept the risks.
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KSBsnowowl
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 08:36 PM
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Well, it would basically remove any reason for a girl to ever be put out of the tower because she's not strong enough. That's basically what that represents. If an initiate only has a 12 intelligence she's going to reach her 'limit' as a 4th level initiate; she's not strong enough to reach the shawl and she would soon be put out of the tower.

You could remove it, but then 'not being strong enough' would have not mechanic to back it up and would purely be role-play (not necessarily a bad thing, but I rather like that part the way it already is.)


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Patterns in the Weave: Aermon, son of Hamiel, son of Kamm, Male Ogier Wanderer 1
This Ogier left on a Grove-tour with his Greatfather, and he hopes to replenish the decimated Groves.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Duty is as heavy as a mountain, death as light as a feather.
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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 4 2004, 09:46 PM
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linking does up your max casting level, but overchanneling does not. jsut a little throw-in

as for not being strong enough... i don't know. i still stay on the side of hating the limit myself. eh, to each their own.


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Kakita Aramoro
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 05:58 AM
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having all of the afinities 'bumps' your limit as well, since in effect it makes it so you require a lower slot, and thus a lower stat as well.
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LuciusT
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE (MagusRogue @ Feb 4 2004, 09:46 PM)
linking does up your max casting level, but overchanneling does not. jsut a little throw-in

I don't recall having ever seen a clear rule about that. Do you have a page citation in the rulebook or is this just your ruling. I have no problem with it either way.
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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE (LuciusT @ Feb 6 2004, 07:19 AM)
QUOTE (MagusRogue @ Feb 4 2004, 09:46 PM)
linking does up your max casting level, but overchanneling does not. jsut a little throw-in

I don't recall having ever seen a clear rule about that. Do you have a page citation in the rulebook or is this just your ruling. I have no problem with it either way.

It's one of those assumned things. The book itself never says that Angreals can raise your max casting limit; that was a ruling made by CR. Now, he said that angreal use can raise your casting limit, but not overchanneling. According to the linking rules on Page 159, third full paragraph down, second column, it says linking does the same thing as angreal usage, not overchanneling. Thus, according to CR's rulings, linking should also raise your weave limit.


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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 06:53 PM
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What do you mean by weave limit?


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Targul
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 07:01 PM
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He means the max weave lvl you can cast. ie th 10+ rule for prime casting stat in order to weave.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 6 2004, 07:02 PM
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QUOTE (Blaeric Fen @ Feb 6 2004, 01:53 PM)
What do you mean by weave limit?

Weave limit is the highest level of a weave you can cast. 10 + the weave's level cannot exceed your Intelligence/Wisdom (Depending on what channeler you are). So, if your Int is 17, you can't cast higher than a 7th level weave without an angreal or linking.


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Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed.
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