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Axel |
Posted: Sep 18 2004, 04:06
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 332 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
Well I got a pirated PDF of Unearthed Arcana, which I
always do before buying something to ensure its worth my money. I was
about to delete it and scorn ever buying another Wizards product when,
skimming the table of contents, I noticed something. "Generic classes,"
curious I checked it out. In it I discovered what I had always sought in
d20, the perfect class system. For those who haven't bought the book I'll
sumarize: The system has only 3 classes: warrior, expert, and spellcaster. They are exactly what they sound like. They are very basic, allowing you to customize a character as you wish. You decide what their key stats are, what saving throws advance, and their special abilities. The class determines only their ability to cast spells, their access to bonus feats, their saving throw advancement, and their HD. Oh yeah, anyone worried about the pirating, I deleted it. I always delete it after I finish my preview. And I'll buy the book, just for these classes, because they're the only thing that peeked my interest. -------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Sep 19 2004, 02:50
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 383 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Unearthed Arcana is the best book I've seen around of
late. I'd say it is well worth your money. Good for customizing your
classes especially for different settings. Don't know if you saw it but I
like the variant classes in there. My favorite is the Urban Ranger.
-------------------- Not all that is gold, glitters. Not all who wonder
are lost. - Tolkein |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 19 2004, 08:16
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
actually, i REALLY hate to say this, but that's kinda
a good idea, axel.... *ponderS* -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 20 2004, 07:34
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
In fact.. I think i'll take this idea to heart, and
work on adding some new class feats, like Lore and Favor. i really do think this flexibility is something that WoT needs. A Warrior can be many things. an Armsman (with lots of feats), an Aiel (evasion, camouflage, sneak attack, and rage (using the whirling frenzy varient) are perfect choices for an aiel warrior), or a Woodsman (track feats, favored environment (the Favored Enemy variant), and the like). I'll get back to you guys when i got more work on this. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Two Rivers Wolfbrother |
Posted: Sep 20 2004, 11:28
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![]() Great Fang ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 551 Member No.: 20 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I've done some work on "generic" classes for Wheel of
Time before. I'll hafta post them somewhere sometime...soon. Looks like
people are taking the idea. -------------------- This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai.
Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as
wolves. Current Projects: Encounters Handbook Tome of the One Power Homepage: Town Center Productions It's funny! Please check out the funny short films and sketches, such as Pink Avenger, the Sockies, and Kenny getting shot with a paintball gun. Check out my Wheel of Time RPG Website! It's not as funny as Town Center Productions, but it's updated frequently, so check it out often. Newest Features: Alternate Rules: Sanity Towns and Locals: The Tuatha'an I My TRW WoT Yahoo! Group! This is where I let the people know when I update my WoT site and also let them know what's coming up. |
phrostphyre |
Posted: Sep 20 2004, 11:41
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Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 11 Member No.: 187 Joined: 20-September 04 ![]() |
Speaking of classes, has anyone noticed how all the
main classes are under powered compared to the Initiate?!?! Count the
number of Feats, Saves, Rep bonuses, etc they get, combine with the
channelling ability and it's enough to rain on all the other classes
parades! I'm going to be changing most of the other classes in my game to even up the scores a bit. Even though the Algai'd'siswai has been done to death everywhere else I'm not going to use other people's reworkings because I've found that without fail they are too powerful, compared to the remaining classes. You can't have a single 'killer' class and expect anyone to play anything else, even if the Algai'etc is nothing like the Aiel in the books. |
Axel |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 11:20
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 332 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
The Algai needs to be PrC'd. Come to think of it so
does the D&D Paladin, Bard, and Barbarian.... WoT has a head start
there, Gleeman and Asha'man are already PrC's. trwb, why would the Generic classes need much work? They should be fine the way they are, except spellcaster. Warrior and Expert are perfect for any game, although I'll give you spellcaster needs work to handle the various methods of Power learning provided in WoT. -------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Guest |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 11:29
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Unregistered ![]() |
Well, Axel, it's because it's not quite so simple as
turning class abilities into feats. You gotta make sure that the class
abilities are balanced with other feats. Some class abilities are more
powerful than feats, and some are weaker. If you use class abilities that
are more powerful than other feats, the players won't be interested in
taking regular feats at all. Also, some of the D&D class abilities are based on the characters being in a highly magical world, and are very spell-like. That's why they need some work. Not a lot, but some. The channeler generic class will need a bit of work too. Indeed. Not a LOT, but some. More than Expert and Warrior. |
Two Rivers Wolfbrother |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 11:30
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![]() Great Fang ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 551 Member No.: 20 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
That was me, by the by. One major reason I don't have them completely done already is because I work on other things too, such as other alternate rules. This one sorta got shelved. It shouldn't take too long if I find myself with a couple hours to do it. -------------------- This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai.
Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as
wolves. Current Projects: Encounters Handbook Tome of the One Power Homepage: Town Center Productions It's funny! Please check out the funny short films and sketches, such as Pink Avenger, the Sockies, and Kenny getting shot with a paintball gun. Check out my Wheel of Time RPG Website! It's not as funny as Town Center Productions, but it's updated frequently, so check it out often. Newest Features: Alternate Rules: Sanity Towns and Locals: The Tuatha'an I My TRW WoT Yahoo! Group! This is where I let the people know when I update my WoT site and also let them know what's coming up. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 24 2004, 05:54
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Honestly, the only thing that needs to be added to
the class features list is Camoflauge, Hide in Plain Sight, and all the
Noble abilities. and those are easy to balance out. Camoflauge, for
instance, should need like 6 ranks in Hide, and perhaps the Stealthy feat.
Hide in Plain Sight needs Camoflauge as well, prolly what, 10 ranks in
hide, and you choose the terrain you can Camo and Hide in when taking said
feats. Favor and coordinate prolly don't need any prereqs, but the two
Inspires need Diplomacy ranks. things like that. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Two Rivers Wolfbrother |
Posted: Sep 24 2004, 07:01
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![]() Great Fang ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 551 Member No.: 20 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Yeah, plus you could get creative and redo some
dai'dore class abilities, and also come up with some all your own.
-------------------- This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai.
Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as
wolves. Current Projects: Encounters Handbook Tome of the One Power Homepage: Town Center Productions It's funny! Please check out the funny short films and sketches, such as Pink Avenger, the Sockies, and Kenny getting shot with a paintball gun. Check out my Wheel of Time RPG Website! It's not as funny as Town Center Productions, but it's updated frequently, so check it out often. Newest Features: Alternate Rules: Sanity Towns and Locals: The Tuatha'an I My TRW WoT Yahoo! Group! This is where I let the people know when I update my WoT site and also let them know what's coming up. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 24 2004, 07:33
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
well... Insightful Strike would be like Zen
Archery... *thinks* plus, everyone has Improved Dodge/Greater Dodge things
out there. *S* but yeah, that's about it.
-------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Axel |
Posted: Sep 25 2004, 12:45
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 332 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
I don't get it. Since the two games are so similar,
shouldn't something basic like the Warrior already be adjusted for WoT?
-------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Sep 25 2004, 05:39
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 383 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I think is Axel is right for the most part. You
shouldn't have to alter them too much. You would need to throw in a class
defense, but that should be easy enough. While you are making changes I
recommend that you use one of the armor / class defense bonus systems
presented in Unearthed Arcana. Also for those class abilites that you would like to throw in to allow for more specialization, you could turn them into Talent Trees for each of the classes. Similar to d20 Modern. Many of the abilites would fit easily into a Talent tree. This would allow for a great deal of deversification / specialization. The same warrior could grab a Talent tree that is woodsman like and then one that is algai'd'siswai like. I wouldn't get to crazy with it since, some of these classes would be made into advanced classes. Word. -------------------- Not all that is gold, glitters. Not all who wonder
are lost. - Tolkein |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Sep 25 2004, 06:09
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I haven't seen Unearthed Arcana yet, but for generic
classes, I really don't think you can beat the Modern base classes.
Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated and Charismatic. With the right
combination of those classes, you can create any kind of character that
you want. BTW, spell casting classes in modern are all Advanced Classes
(Modern's equivelant of the top half of standard 20 level core classes). I
have also been working on a more modular BAB/Defense system in which
weapon proficiencies (including unarmed combat) and some defense feats are
turned into combat "skills" giving characters the ability to customize
their combat abilities within the standard classes.
-------------------- |
Two Rivers Wolfbrother |
Posted: Sep 25 2004, 09:37
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![]() Great Fang ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 551 Member No.: 20 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I agree with Aleshandre. d20 Modern is set up
brilliantly and you can't really cover it better than they did. As for generic classes, I was mainly talking about features that gave the Wheel of Time flavor, such as certain Algai'd'siswai features, woodsmand features, noble features. I dunno. I'm probably making it harder than it has to be. Everyone seems to have this all covered. I have done some work on d20 modern classes WoTized. I'll hafta post what I got sometime. Not that they need a lot of work either. This post has been edited by Two Rivers Wolfbrother on Sep 25 2004, 09:37 AM -------------------- This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai.
Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as
wolves. Current Projects: Encounters Handbook Tome of the One Power Homepage: Town Center Productions It's funny! Please check out the funny short films and sketches, such as Pink Avenger, the Sockies, and Kenny getting shot with a paintball gun. Check out my Wheel of Time RPG Website! It's not as funny as Town Center Productions, but it's updated frequently, so check it out often. Newest Features: Alternate Rules: Sanity Towns and Locals: The Tuatha'an I My TRW WoT Yahoo! Group! This is where I let the people know when I update my WoT site and also let them know what's coming up. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Sep 25 2004, 02:57
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1009 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
me too (about d20 modern WoT'zized)
-------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Axel |
Posted: Sep 25 2004, 03:19
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 332 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
Ale, the Generic class system has only 3 classes:
Expert, Warrior, and Spellcaster. Everything from there is in the form of
Bonus Feats. I've seen the d20modern system and I prefer the Generic
system. -------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Sep 25 2004, 08:08
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Fair enough Axel. Shall we agree to disagree then?
-------------------- |
Axel |
Posted: Sep 27 2004, 05:16
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Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 332 Member No.: 54 Joined: 23-January 04 ![]() |
I'm just saying I prefer a system where your class
represents your job, as opposed to your best stat. I dunno about needing to WoT'ize the classes since they seem universal to begin with. But then I opposed the existance of a noble class at all, so what do I know? -------------------- Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT. |
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