Powered by Invision Power Board


  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Age of legends physics, pushing past einstein
Kakita Aramoro
Posted: Feb 24 2004, 12:02 AM
Quote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Member No.: 74
Joined: 1-February 04



you know the whole controversy between those who think objects can't exceed the speed of light and trekkies who do?

anyways, back in the age of legends you could have found out, all you need is a vacum, earth's gravity well, a few chanelers, a test object, and gateways.
set the first gateway underneath the second so that they open into each other thus making an infinite gravitational loop. then there is some simple math to do.

e= the the speed of light = 299 792 458 m/s
g= the gravity on earth = 9.80665 m/s*s

(e/g)=353 days, 19 hours, 45 minutes, and 23 seconds (give or take a bit)

in this way you would be able to prove conclusively wether or not you can breach the speed of light, though it would take a year and some way of detecting the object's speed, although if it disapears to your electro-magnetic based measuring instruments, its probably going faster than you can detect (past e) or its been destroyed.

probably something only a brown would be interested in though, since if you have gateways, you already know you can travel faster than the speed of light, though you do it by cheating, the same way that you win in the game of snakes and foxes.

This post has been edited by Kakita Aramoro on Feb 24 2004, 12:03 AM
PMEmail Poster
Top
Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Feb 24 2004, 07:06 AM
Quote Post


Great Fang
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 258
Member No.: 20
Joined: 15-January 04



Exactly!


--------------------
This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai. Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as wolves.

Current Projects:
Encounters Handbook
Wheel of Time 3.5

Homepage:
www.towncenterproductions.com
It's Funny!
PMEmail Poster
Top
Axel
Posted: Feb 24 2004, 08:34 PM
Quote Post


Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre)
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 218
Member No.: 54
Joined: 22-January 04



no, it would reach terminal velocity, the point past which it cannot accelerate. Similar to the old dropping a penny off the empire state building, the penny reaches terminal velocity at about 65mph, it can't accelerate past that, thus never builds up enough speed to do any damage whatsoever.
yeah, I killed that idea...


--------------------
Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT.
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteAOL
Top
Kakita Aramoro
Posted: Feb 25 2004, 02:06 AM
Quote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Member No.: 74
Joined: 1-February 04



as I said its in a vacume, thus terminal velocity does not aply sinceterminal velocity is due to air resistance. no air, no air friction, thus that does not kill my idea. brown ph34r.gif

This post has been edited by Kakita Aramoro on Feb 25 2004, 02:08 AM
PMEmail Poster
Top
drothgery
Posted: Feb 25 2004, 02:38 AM
Quote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 126
Member No.: 25
Joined: 15-January 04



obNitpick: In any decent sci-fi (and even space opera like Trek) where faster-than-light travel exists, they explain that it works by cheating somehow. No one's set up a universe where Einsteinian physics fails to apply to normal space (there are ways of checking this with tech that we've got, and they've been done).


--------------------
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Aleshandre
Posted: Feb 25 2004, 02:17 PM
Quote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Moderators
Posts: 130
Member No.: 18
Joined: 15-January 04



This is where Super-string Theory comes into play. among other things, it supercedes einstienian physics (assuming it is correct) and therefore, permits exceding light speed. Ofcourse, once an object reaches light speed, it becomes light, so it begs the question, can light excede the speed of light. I believe that the answer may be yes.
example: a car is traveling at 75 mph. The headlights project light forward of the car at a speed equal to c+75mph. If not, after traveling (granted for an extremely long distance straight line), the car would eventually reach a point where the light from the headlights nolonger passes the lense of the headlight.

This can ofcourse be tested. A series of rangefinding lasers set to project a set distance from the front of the car would be able to determine if the theoretical set distance actually decreases as the vehicle accelerates. If light can not move faster than the theoretical speed of light, then the distance should decrease as the vehicle accelerates. If it does not, then the speed of light can be exceeded.


--------------------
PMEmail Poster
Top
MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 25 2004, 06:44 PM
Quote Post


Village fool. Paid well.
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 703
Member No.: 26
Joined: 16-January 04



QUOTE (Aleshandre @ Feb 25 2004, 03:17 AM)
This is where Super-string Theory comes into play. among other things, it supercedes einstienian physics (assuming it is correct) and therefore, permits exceding light speed. Ofcourse, once an object reaches light speed, it becomes light, so it begs the question, can light excede the speed of light. I believe that the answer may be yes.
example: a car is traveling at 75 mph. The headlights project light forward of the car at a speed equal to c+75mph. If not, after traveling (granted for an extremely long distance straight line), the car would eventually reach a point where the light from the headlights nolonger passes the lense of the headlight.

This can ofcourse be tested. A series of rangefinding lasers set to project a set distance from the front of the car would be able to determine if the theoretical set distance actually decreases as the vehicle accelerates. If light can not move faster than the theoretical speed of light, then the distance should decrease as the vehicle accelerates. If it does not, then the speed of light can be exceeded.

blink.gif blink.gif blink.gif blink.gif unsure.gif

...
Ok...
Dude, aleshandre, you a physicist or something? laugh.gif smarter than me by far it seems.... rolleyes.gif


--------------------
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's done.

Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed.
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteICQAOLYahooMSN
Top
Mantyluoto
Posted: Feb 25 2004, 06:47 PM
Quote Post


New Monster: Hairy Dragon
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 446
Member No.: 17
Joined: 15-January 04



"scratches head" yup biggrin.gif

i would post my theory but i got lost after the word Physics biggrin.gif


--------------------
For Those About To Rock, We Salute You
PMEmail Poster
Top
Axel
Posted: Feb 25 2004, 07:11 PM
Quote Post


Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre)
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 218
Member No.: 54
Joined: 22-January 04



I followed him. Basically he's applying a very simple rule of motion to light. Its like if you're in a car going, and you throw something forewards. The actual momentum of the object equals how fast the car is going plus how fast you threw it. All he did was apply that concept to the headlights on the car, should the speed of light from the headlights equal the speed of light plus the speed of the car?
I would say no, the speed of light in a vacum represents maximum terminal velocity for the universe, no particle can exeed the speed of light Terminal velocity is inversely proportional to mass, since a photon has no mass nothing can go faster than the speed of light. c is the universal speed limit.


--------------------
Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT.
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteAOL
Top
Targul
Posted: Feb 25 2004, 08:05 PM
Quote Post


Aran'shadar
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 148
Member No.: 69
Joined: 29-January 04



Theoretically cool.gif


--------------------
Wait, if I DID evil, and you guys here ARE evil. Then shouldn't you be showering me with rewards and concubines, etc.?
This is Hell we're big on irony here.
Then I'm sure you'll appreciate what is going to occur.
I'm dead, so this is some egoscopic projection of myself?
Correct, but I hardly see what...
So without any fleshy meats to slow me down, how long do you REALLY think it'll take for me to usurp your entire kingdom?
I have the entire legions of Hell at my command
Enjoy it while you can, Skippy.

-Black Mage in Hell (8-bit theater style)
PMEmail Poster
Top
Entropic_existence
Posted: Feb 25 2004, 08:23 PM
Quote Post


Breaker-of-horses-and-men
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 116
Member No.: 22
Joined: 15-January 04



I'd have to go searching through my e-journal collection to find the actual artcile but they've made Light go faster than the empirical speed of light as well. The light wave was [passed through a special chamber containign Cesium gas instead of a vaccuum. Essentially the leadign edge of the light wave exited the chamber before the wave essentially entered. I love theoretical physics from a reading/speculating perspective but don't ask me o explain the math behind it smile.gif


--------------------
What is dead can never die.
PMEmail PosterAOLYahooMSN
Top
Aleshandre
Posted: Feb 26 2004, 07:35 PM
Quote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Moderators
Posts: 130
Member No.: 18
Joined: 15-January 04



QUOTE (Axel @ Feb 25 2004, 01:11 PM)
I followed him. Basically he's applying a very simple rule of motion to light. Its like if you're in a car going, and you throw something forewards. The actual momentum of the object equals how fast the car is going plus how fast you threw it. All he did was apply that concept to the headlights on the car, should the speed of light from the headlights equal the speed of light plus the speed of the car?
I would say no, the speed of light in a vacum represents maximum terminal velocity for the universe, no particle can exeed the speed of light Terminal velocity is inversely proportional to mass, since a photon has no mass nothing can go faster than the speed of light. c is the universal speed limit.

The problem with that is that by determining the energy of a light photon, you can determine the mass by inverse of E=MC^2 [M=E/(C^2)], so light photons do have mass. In truth, although light manifests simultaneously as waves and particles, it is technically niether, thus our perceptions of what it is varies based on the perspective that we view it from. BTW, Axel, you are partially correct, light photons have zero rest mass. As soon as they accelerate, they gain a measurable mass.

No, I'm not a physicist, but I love to study physics. It's one of my hobbies.


--------------------
PMEmail Poster
Top
Axel
Posted: Feb 26 2004, 08:10 PM
Quote Post


Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre)
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 218
Member No.: 54
Joined: 22-January 04



However that doesn't change the fact that nothing can exceed c. You can slow down light, but you can't speed it up.


--------------------
Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT.
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteAOL
Top
Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Feb 26 2004, 10:34 PM
Quote Post


Lemming Extraordinare
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 239
Member No.: 15
Joined: 15-January 04



Before 1492, the world was flat, and you couldn't sail around it because you would fall off.

I'm just saying that it is the nature of human pride to believe that we know something definitively because we have not seen anything to disprove it. Any true scientist would never say, "That is impossible." Improbible, maybe. Impossible never.

There was a scientist in the early 1930's (I think the date is right) that said that all important scientific discoveries have been made. Science that date, we have discovered DNA and are only scratching the surface of understanding gene control. We have traveled to space. We have done numerous types of organ transplants. We have cloned a sheep. Etc...

Sorry for the soap box, but as a scientist, it hits this nerve when I hear someone say, "That would be impossible." Our understanding of light is limited to say the least. Even the theories out there such as the Hologram theory and Superstring theory are only theories attempting to explain the nature of the universe, but lack much needed, but difficult to obtain emperical evidence. I don't believe there is a human being on this earth that has a sufficient understanding of light to say what is possible or impossible for it to do.


--------------------
I like swords.
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteYahooMSN
Top
Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
Posted: Feb 27 2004, 01:05 AM
Quote Post


Learned Master
***

Group: Members
Posts: 37
Member No.: 70
Joined: 29-January 04



I read through all of the posts on this thread and I must say ohmy.gif........AAhhAAhhAAhhAA. Stop, please no more math. This is suposed to be a game of fun ad mayhem not a revisit to highschool & collage. wacko.gif For the sake of all our sanity step away from the E=MC SQUARED unsure.gif . My mind is now crammed with gaming information. If you continue to post logical sane mathmaticly defined answers I my snap and forget where I put my d20's and actualy WANT to paint the house like my wife keeps telling me to do. unsure.gif Help a brother out and stop the realworld maddness before it corupts our beloved game!


--------------------
Spinner of the Great Wheel, Apprentice Lord of the Sith, Palladian of the Lawful Naughty

Recipe for the Palladian of the Lawful Naughty
“Take 1 level of Rogue, add 2 or 3 levels of Fighter then add multiple levels of Palladian. When your GM tells you that you are breaking your Palladian’s alignment remind him that your character came from a dysfunctional background so burning the whole village to the ground to rid the world of evil is ok from his point of view.”
PMEmail Poster
Top
Targul
Posted: Feb 27 2004, 02:13 AM
Quote Post


Aran'shadar
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 148
Member No.: 69
Joined: 29-January 04




QUOTE
highschool & collage, mathmaticly,corupts our beloved game



I think you mean COLLEGE, MATHEMATICALLY, and CORRUPTS. Respectfully.


Maybe you NEED to be reminded of highschool there Paladin biggrin.gif

Just jokin brother. cool.gif


--------------------
Wait, if I DID evil, and you guys here ARE evil. Then shouldn't you be showering me with rewards and concubines, etc.?
This is Hell we're big on irony here.
Then I'm sure you'll appreciate what is going to occur.
I'm dead, so this is some egoscopic projection of myself?
Correct, but I hardly see what...
So without any fleshy meats to slow me down, how long do you REALLY think it'll take for me to usurp your entire kingdom?
I have the entire legions of Hell at my command
Enjoy it while you can, Skippy.

-Black Mage in Hell (8-bit theater style)
PMEmail Poster
Top
Axel
Posted: Feb 27 2004, 08:06 PM
Quote Post


Freelance HTML coder (hint Aleshandre)
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 218
Member No.: 54
Joined: 22-January 04



QUOTE (Sharn Penndroen @ Feb 26 2004, 11:34 AM)
I'm just saying that it is the nature of human pride to believe that we know something definitively because we have not seen anything to disprove it. Any true scientist would never say, "That is impossible." Improbible, maybe. Impossible never.

You're going to rely on undiscovered ideas? I don't mind saying there's alot we don't understand, but that's no basis to say something is possible. Since it defies known physics, until those rules are contradicted they still stand.

Anyway, I often apply these things to gaming. I like to seek mundane explanations for problems, and even with magic I like to use it in a way that works out in a physically probable manner. I also like using it to make up for problems in my historical scenarios, like a Cold War situation inwhich each side had Wardens of Massive Devastation.


--------------------
Honorary Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
If I seem to hate the d20 system, its only because I hate the system. Actually I just hate 3e, its biased me against the system. I rather like WoT.
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteAOL
Top
Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
Posted: Feb 27 2004, 08:48 PM
Quote Post


Learned Master
***

Group: Members
Posts: 37
Member No.: 70
Joined: 29-January 04



Targul, trust me when I say that spelling and math are not my strong suites. As far as a refresher course goes you're on the money. I graduated highschool in 1989 and finished my two year COLLEGE degree (See I know how to cut and paste!) in 1991. cool.gif


--------------------
Spinner of the Great Wheel, Apprentice Lord of the Sith, Palladian of the Lawful Naughty

Recipe for the Palladian of the Lawful Naughty
“Take 1 level of Rogue, add 2 or 3 levels of Fighter then add multiple levels of Palladian. When your GM tells you that you are breaking your Palladian’s alignment remind him that your character came from a dysfunctional background so burning the whole village to the ground to rid the world of evil is ok from his point of view.”
PMEmail Poster
Top
Targul
Posted: Feb 27 2004, 08:56 PM
Quote Post


Aran'shadar
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 148
Member No.: 69
Joined: 29-January 04



Just jokin man biggrin.gif . I can't help but kick em while they're down biggrin.gif

Peace out yo
cool.gif


--------------------
Wait, if I DID evil, and you guys here ARE evil. Then shouldn't you be showering me with rewards and concubines, etc.?
This is Hell we're big on irony here.
Then I'm sure you'll appreciate what is going to occur.
I'm dead, so this is some egoscopic projection of myself?
Correct, but I hardly see what...
So without any fleshy meats to slow me down, how long do you REALLY think it'll take for me to usurp your entire kingdom?
I have the entire legions of Hell at my command
Enjoy it while you can, Skippy.

-Black Mage in Hell (8-bit theater style)
PMEmail Poster
Top
Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
Posted: Feb 27 2004, 09:01 PM
Quote Post


Learned Master
***

Group: Members
Posts: 37
Member No.: 70
Joined: 29-January 04



No harm doen. If someone doesn't bust my chops at least once a day I feel that I am not living up to my Lawful Naughty status. cool.gif


--------------------
Spinner of the Great Wheel, Apprentice Lord of the Sith, Palladian of the Lawful Naughty

Recipe for the Palladian of the Lawful Naughty
“Take 1 level of Rogue, add 2 or 3 levels of Fighter then add multiple levels of Palladian. When your GM tells you that you are breaking your Palladian’s alignment remind him that your character came from a dysfunctional background so burning the whole village to the ground to rid the world of evil is ok from his point of view.”
PMEmail Poster
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll