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Primal Paladin22 |
Posted: Apr 26 2004, 06:46
AM
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 200 Member No.: 96 Joined: 16-February 04 ![]() |
No offense taken. I am changing the rules to make
things more "powerful", I am trying, to "pimp" the game a little. The
thing is that I am a big superhero gamer, so I have seen it all, when it
comes to game inbalance. I have also played a bit of RIFTs, so there is
another game in which balance is real hard to achive. I am trying to bring
the game, as I play it, as closly into line with the feel of Jordan's
world as I can. As I am running a game and all these ideas are to be used
in the game I am running I am willing to except a certain amount of game
inbalance. i will just compinsate by have my baddies use superior tactics
and I will pour them on when my channelers start to get the big head. This
thread got started because of a part in i think it was Path of Daggers
when Rand took a force of some seventy Ash'aman against the Seanchan down
on the coast between Illian and Altara. The book said that sixty of them
where soldiers and that the only reqiurment was that they be able to weave
a gateway. In the books it was remarked several times I believe that it
was not so important to know the area you gated to but you must have
memorized the ground from which you started. It also said that the
Ash'aman soldiers used gate ways to scout long distances quikly. Several
times the book said a gateway would open within Rands sight and a lone
Soldier would walk through leadong his horse. Now the rules, as they are
written do not allow for that. Especially if a first level initiate is
considered a Dedicated. I am not trying to convince those who are not of
like mind how they should play the game. I am not trolling for responses
from those oposed to the way I choose to play the game. I am simply useing
the forum for the purpose to which I thought it was concieved. I am just
enjoying the community and trying to get input on the rules I would like
to change a little. That said i am trying to use already established
precedents like fortitude saves instead of a slot based weaves per day
system, or adapted grappeling rules to define the titanic struggle between
Nynaeve and Moghedien in the Panarch's Palace at Tanchico. These rules do
add some complexity to the game, an added roll in the first and several
rolls in the case of the second, but they also sdd to the drama of a
gaming session. Blade Masters get to go blow by blow so why shouldn't my
three Aes Sadie when they are desperatly trying to pry the source from the
mad male channeler. I am not a munchkin or a power gamer but I am a fan of
high fantasy novels and the work I and a few others are doing on this
board may allow me to explore some of those worlds to in thier own genre,
not just a thrown together setting with 3E rules. Again I appreciate any
input I can get, this board is where I practice my typing ( to bad my
spelling is not improving much huh). I just like to talk about this stuff.
If you don't like my idea, shred it but I probably won't change the
general tone of my posts and it definately wont change the way I play the
game. I been doing this since I was thirteen when I baught my first
D&D Basic Set in the red box. I went through the chaotic evel phase
and the gimme gold phase I even talked my DM into letting me have a Holy
sword for my paladin that caused evil creature within ten feet to save vs
death or die every time I struck with it. I know the guy was to soft, but
we made it through all that and we had a great time. The game is not about
the same stuff for every body, some peaple like to play at polotics others
like to lead armies, others still ike to accumilate ![]() Peace J -------------------- "Me... I'm doom on two legs, and you... you're a fish
among sharks." - said the submission fighter "Lancelot" to an arrogant and
unnamed scrub. |
Eosin the Red |
Posted: Apr 26 2004, 08:12
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 276 Member No.: 2 Joined: 9-December 03 ![]() |
![]() ![]() -------------------- I am
working on it! Eosin the Red Pencil Pushers Publishing |
Jonathan |
Posted: Apr 26 2004, 11:26
PM
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![]() It is good to be king ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 212 Member No.: 119 Joined: 26-March 04 ![]() |
When I said "pimp" I meant, "advertising your product
and/or service." A few points: 1) It is easier to read online writing if you split up your text into double spaced seperated text that focus on one idea. 2) E-mail. Try it. People seem to be 1000% more intelligent in e-mail than on message boards and Instant Messenger boards. Often by the end of the e-mail a person will see at least one inconsistancy of logic (if not several more). My official position when it comes to increasing Channeler Power is, "What is the goal of such a change?" I can just imagine how frustrating it must be to be told that someone's opinion is just a question. A few things that could buff up channelers. 1. Decrease the Overchannel DC's by 5 each. 2. Update the Regional Feats to 3.5 (including the limit of 1 regional feat). 3. Start PC's off at a higher level (even if it is only a level). 4. Remind players of the merit of the Heroic Surge and Improved Initiative feats. I am sure it is possible to have an all channeler party, inventive players will find ways to cover up gaps. The main problems you will run into are: 1. "Alpha Channeler Syndrome" - Much as some high level D&D PC's get out of hand with their "I am a level 16 fighter, I could squish this monarch and his entire army! Why should I listen to him?!!?" spiel. Only a channeler can reasonably start popping off fireballs, all day long. 2. Identical PC's - "Dammit Jon, every single one of my players is a Smart Hero going mage!! Why are they all going arcane?! You are the only one going Divine caster!" -Anomomys GM. While there is no excuse in D&D for every player to want to be a fireball slinging mage; Wheel of Time is a "flashy, epic world." Compulsion, Bond Warder, Disguise... and a few others are the sole descreet weaves. Heck, even using the One Power is like putting a flare on your head. Good luck, have fun, happy gaming. -Jonathan |
Primal Paladin22 |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 12:21
AM
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 200 Member No.: 96 Joined: 16-February 04 ![]() |
Thanks man. My solutions to the problems I have are
all pretty much posted here. The problem with e-mail is that I am kind of
on an island where I live, as far as gaming goes, and have been for going
on seven years. I get the impression from your post that you may be ofended by the tone of my posts. I hope you are not, but the forum is free to all kinds of ideaologies I have noticed and so I don't think mine should be limited. Your input on my threads so far has been helpful to me and is appreciated. My concern is that I through some differnce in philosophy I may offend you. The reason this concerns me is that I would not want you to stop contributing to my threads, and I would not want anyone else to stop contributing because I ofend you. It is easy to see that you have been here a good deal longer than I, and I don't want to get black balled. I understand your position about powering up channelers. I would like to say that I am not really trying to power up channelers, more I am changing the way the rules effect channellers to conform more to my own understanding of the world I intend to game in. I am doing this, not to attemp to sway others or to try and be a power gamer but to enhance my on gaming experiance and those of my tiny group. P.S. I recently suffered a back injury, and have been unable to do very much, so you guys on this board have been helping me stay sane. I guess in that respect my recent rule changes have been kind of like any other lawmakers I have been bored. Peace to you. J This post has been edited by Primal Paladin22 on Apr 27 2004, 12:23 AM -------------------- "Me... I'm doom on two legs, and you... you're a fish
among sharks." - said the submission fighter "Lancelot" to an arrogant and
unnamed scrub. |
Jonathan |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 01:05
AM
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![]() It is good to be king ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 212 Member No.: 119 Joined: 26-March 04 ![]() |
Primal, I don't know your background (just as you
don't know mine). However, things online are different than
offline. The largest difference is that you don't have to associate with people that offend, aggrevate, or appall you. You can ignore them. I have done a near 180 degree turn around in my behavior since Eosin gave me minor Admin powers. I used to flame first and ignore questions/complaints later. Now, I just ignore people that anger me. I replied, therefore I am not angered. -Jonathan -------------------- |
Primal Paladin22 |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 01:25
AM
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 200 Member No.: 96 Joined: 16-February 04 ![]() |
Cool. Peace J -------------------- "Me... I'm doom on two legs, and you... you're a fish
among sharks." - said the submission fighter "Lancelot" to an arrogant and
unnamed scrub. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 03:34
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 239 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Primal, it seems that everyone has their own take on
how they can make X class or Y weave more in line with "the books." Many
times it is more in line with thier take on the books. Remember
that non-channeling classes are not completely useless and no matter how
buff you make channelers they will always carry a social stigma with those
that know of their ability. The one change that I have made in my camaign is that all channeling classes that had a d4 now have a d6 hit die. As others here and else where have stated, a d4 is just too low. So I tossed it out the window. I understand that you intend to make a major overhaul. Make sure that you are careful not to get carried away. Just because you like channelers, you may tend to focus on some of their awesome scenes from the books. Keep in mind that RJ didn't write with the intention of converting it to d20. Just as you will be able to point out spots in the books that show that channelers are more powerful than the RPG has them, I could show you that Blademasters need to be blenders on speed. And Aiel can run faster than horses and twice as long and blah blah blah. I'm not saying that I think that you intend to go over board. I'm just telling you to be careful and to keep a check on yourself. Do not become a victim of "fanboyism." (Have you ever gone to the Oriental Adventures Forum at wizards of the coast? There are guys saying, "The stats for the katana are way off. I've redone them to be more realistic. I'm an expert on ancient weapons because I've watched a lot of samurai movies. I think it should be like this: 2d12 dmg 17-20/*3 crit. It should be finessible and have a 10 reach that can also be used on adjacent enemies. And you should get a bonus to AC just for having it on your person. Oh, and it will make your pancakes cook just perfect without running too much and it will cure AIDS and solve world hunger. YOU WILL BECOME SO INCREDIBLY ATTRACTIVE JUST FROM CARRYING A KATANA THAT SUPER MODELS WILL FOLLOW YOU EVERYWHERE YOU GO. YOUR ENEMIES WILL BE SO INTIMIDATED, THEY WILL ALL KILL THEMSELVES RATHER THAN FACE YOU.") Sorry I touched on a nerve there. Excuse the rant. Take everything I said before that seriously. -------------------- I like swords. |
Jonathan |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 03:43
AM
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![]() It is good to be king ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 212 Member No.: 119 Joined: 26-March 04 ![]() |
Holy shit! *logs onto e-bay and bids on a Katana* ![]() -Jonathan P.S.: It's not because I want to be with a super model (*faintly hears the "yeah right" groans*), but because no woman wants a man that no other woman wants. -------------------- | ||
Primal Paladin22 |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 03:56
AM
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 200 Member No.: 96 Joined: 16-February 04 ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() The thing is that is is not just the Wheel of Time. It is every high fantasy novel I have ever read. I really am just trying to bring the rules into line to some of that stuff. I believe that magic users are far to limited in there use of magic so I came up with a way to make them POTENTIALY more powerful. If the player has a couple of bad rolls he is totally dependant on the fighter types again. The other work I am doing all has to do with siiuations that the rules just did not cover. The problem I have with WoT is that I don't think they had enough developmental time put into it. To me it seems that WoTC just took the world and slaped D20 on it. I have done that with Lord of The Rings, the Shannara books, The Gunslinger books, an old choose your own adventure series called Lone Wolf. I have never liked the way magic was handled and I haven't done it for whatever reason since I was just a wee gamer. Today I have both the inspirationand the will to make this game really capture the magic and drama of the books. I don't care how powerful the channeler's are, I just want my Ash'aman player to do everything with the power, but I don't want to just give him more slots. I really don't consider what I am doing a major overhaul, I am just patching a little. I am definately not prostilatizing my innovations, I am just looking for peaple to bounce my ideas off. Peace J -------------------- "Me... I'm doom on two legs, and you... you're a fish
among sharks." - said the submission fighter "Lancelot" to an arrogant and
unnamed scrub. |
Primal Paladin22 |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 03:57
AM
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 200 Member No.: 96 Joined: 16-February 04 ![]() |
Man Jon, it can't be that bad. J -------------------- "Me... I'm doom on two legs, and you... you're a fish
among sharks." - said the submission fighter "Lancelot" to an arrogant and
unnamed scrub. |
Jonathan |
![]() |
![]() It is good to be king ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 212 Member No.: 119 Joined: 26-March 04 ![]() |
Dude. It is possible to make a Male Channeler that
can use an unlimited number of 2nd level weaves per day. WITHOUT CHEATING.
It is called Overchanneling. *cheating is defined as changing the rules to allow something with the sole purpose of unbalancing the game* -Jonathan -------------------- |
Primal Paladin22 |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 04:46
AM
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 200 Member No.: 96 Joined: 16-February 04 ![]() |
Have you read my post about fatigue based channeling?
Peace J -------------------- "Me... I'm doom on two legs, and you... you're a fish
among sharks." - said the submission fighter "Lancelot" to an arrogant and
unnamed scrub. |
Entropic_existence |
Posted: Apr 27 2004, 03:01
PM
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Breaker-of-horses-and-men ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 116 Member No.: 22 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
You know, I don't get where people get this from the quotes. (this isn't a slam BTW and I know it's sort of off-topic from the thread) I've been an RP Admin in a Wheel of Time MUD for awhile now, and people seem to take this line of thought from the books as well, and it's definitly a complete misconception. The Aiel have very, very good endurance and the whole keeping up with horses thing is meant to mean that the Aiel can move at a fast pace for extended periods of time, meaning a large group of aiel can make the same number of miles in a day as a group of horsemen. Keep in mind you don't run everywhere with a horse, tends to kill the poor creature ![]() -------------------- What is dead can never
die. | ||
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Apr 28 2004, 12:19
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 239 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
No one in this post is arguing that the Aiel can run
forever. I was using the fine art of sarcasm... In case you didn't catch
it, I really don't believe that a katana is a the ultimate sex toy either.
That was sarcasm as well.... ![]() You are preaching to the choir. This post has been edited by Sharn Penndroen on Apr 28 2004, 12:20 AM -------------------- I like swords. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Apr 28 2004, 12:21
AM
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 239 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Primal. In that case, I'm willing to watch and see
what you come up with. I usually have an open mind, but not so open that
it falls out. -------------------- I like swords. |
Jonathan |
Posted: Apr 28 2004, 12:32
AM
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![]() It is good to be king ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 212 Member No.: 119 Joined: 26-March 04 ![]() |
DAMN YOU!! *runs away weeping* -Jonathan -------------------- | ||
Entropic_existence |
Posted: Apr 28 2004, 01:52
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Breaker-of-horses-and-men ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 116 Member No.: 22 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
All good Sharn...I guess I just say way too many
people thinking the Aiel really are that damn fast heh. Course these same
people tend to overrate the same sort of things with Trollocs too. ![]() -------------------- What is dead can never
die. |
Jaydubyadub |
Posted: Apr 28 2004, 11:43
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Newbie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4 Member No.: 139 Joined: 28-April 04 ![]() |
I'm inclined to believe the channellers are powerful
enough, especially if you include all the stuff from Under the Dragon's
Banner. I've played in several WoT campaigns and I'm usually the fighter /
tank. I must say, that yes, even as a Warder dispensing stabbity death, my most important role is not killing all the bad guys - it's protecting my charge so SHE can. Or an Asha'man with a blade of fire - when all else fails, man, just use your martial abilities. Channeler doesn't mean no Str, no Dex, no Con. I'm due to be the channeler in one of these games sooner or later, lol, and when I do, I'm hoping to have just decent enough Wisdom to get a fire sword and a basic wall of air and I'm happy as I can be. I understand that channelers aren't quite as strong as they maybe are in the books, but as the other guy said, Warders and Blademasters aren't the blenders they are in the books, either, and fireballs and earthquakes and strike of death and balefire and rend and so forth... yeah. I mean, I killed 2 trollocs this round - my buddy the Asha'man killed 30 or more with a spell. I don't think they need more power. ![]() |
Primal Paladin22 |
Posted: Apr 29 2004, 12:51
AM
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 200 Member No.: 96 Joined: 16-February 04 ![]() |
Yeah, my big problem is not really how powerful
channelers are. What I am saying is that the slot pool system does not
reflect the way channeling works in the books. Peace J -------------------- "Me... I'm doom on two legs, and you... you're a fish
among sharks." - said the submission fighter "Lancelot" to an arrogant and
unnamed scrub. |
Entropic_existence |
Posted: Apr 30 2004, 03:28
AM
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Breaker-of-horses-and-men ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 116 Member No.: 22 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Personally I would have liked to have seen the Wheel
of Time work off of a system similar to Psionics in DnD. It would have
been quite reflective of the books in my opinion, having a pool of points
to power your weaves. Plus being able to cannibalize constitution to keep
channeling after you run out, etc. However I'm not a good enough rules
mechanic to do a conversion. -------------------- What is dead can never
die. |
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