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Darius Earthbinder |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 06:21
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![]() Learned Master ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 37 Member No.: 146 Joined: 15-May 04 ![]() |
in the books elayne and Ewgene have definities for
Earth and fire in opposition to what is normal for women (ewgene is so
strong in earth she is almost as powerful as a male channeller
!) but for the Affinities as Skill why not use the lowest skill for multiple affinity weaving e.g someone Anybody a male chaneller has Fire (dex) 3 ranks total +5 Earth (Con) 7 ranks Total +8 Water (wis) 1 rank total +3 Air (int) 0 ranks total +2 Spirit (cha) 4ranks total +8 so to channel arms of air rolls d20 adds 2 to channelcreate fire rolls d20 adds 5 to channel blade of fire rolls d20 adds 2 as a man he buys Earth, Fire and Spirit as Class skills, and buys Air and Water as cross class skills Affinity feats would give him +3 per purchase (like skill emphasis) or for non-sex affinities allow him to buy them as Class skills then count as skill emphasis Talent Feats grant a +3 to all weaves under the Appropriate talent With the elementalism talent removed (allowing anybody to cast weaves with effect higher than 3rd level from that talent) Multiweave as given, tie off as given etc minimum change, maximum (imho) resemblance to the books |
Zinuk |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 08:56
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![]() Newbie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
The problem with affinities is that they don't work
at all (in the books) as in the rule book. Here is what RJ says in the
glossary of TEotW:
This rather seems to indicate that each channeler has one different strength for each of the Five Powers and that the One Power Strength is an average of the Five Powers Strength. For those of you who aren't satisfied with the way affinity works, check the Five Power Stats house rule in the Age of Discovery Netbook. It is a system quite close to the 7th stat system, but it also changes the way affinities work. I really think affinities should not be skills: they are innate and not learnt. Talents, on the other hand, can be learned to an extend. With Talents beeing skills, you allow some channeler to be good in Healing but bad in Illusion, and only average in Cloud Dancing, which is a very good thing. That's why I think Sharn's system now looks really great. Congratulations. | ||
MagusRogue |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 06:20
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 733 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
yeah, now that i think about it, having the Talents
as skills might really work. That and a Pow score, it should more
accurately represent what's in the books... BTW, i still believe that Asha'man should get something like Weapon Focus instead. Weapon Focus can apply to their swords, or to rays or grenades, as an example of how more militant they are when compared to others. Damane are weapons themselves; asha'man use the power solely as weapons, and thus should be more... you know. fighter-esque. oh and how do Angreal and Overchanneling work in your system? This post has been edited by MagusRogue on Jun 22 2004, 07:55 PM -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 07:54
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 140 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
To use this with a 7th stat power system, the
following changes are what I would reccommend: Balefire (Int) Cloud Dancing (Pow) Conjunction (Cha) Earth Singing (Pow) Elementalism (Int) Healing (Wis) Illusion (Cha) Traveling (Pow) Warding (Wis) The rest should remain fairly balanced as is. This post has been edited by Aleshandre on Jun 22 2004, 08:08 PM -------------------- |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 07:55
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 733 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Honestly, if you're using a 7th-stat system, i'd have
all talents be linked to Pow. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 08:07
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 140 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I understand that and in some ways I agree, but there
are some weaves that the ability of the channeler have little effect on
the intensity of the weaves. Balefire for example, seems to be primarilly
affected not as much by by power as by how the weaves are formed. There is
no indication that being more powerful would give a person more ability to
use balefire. Others like making Cuendillar and travelling do require a
greater ability to channel. -------------------- |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 10:13
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 733 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
that does present a problem... how to handle weaves
that require certain amounts of Power, especially if you don't have a
Power score. hrm... oh and some other things i thought of. Sharn, so far the only channelers who represent a Warrior Channeler type are Asha'man. No other tradition, even the Green Ajah, are proficient in actually fighting. I would just make two paths, an Offensive and a Defensive path, myself. And rework the Asha'man's benefit to having Martial Weapon Proficiency in swords. This post has been edited by MagusRogue on Jun 22 2004, 10:13 PM -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 11:16
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 253 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I'd rather leave it as is. Just because we don't see
any Green Ajah that would be skilled in weapons doesn't mean that they
can't exist. You are also totally forgetting about Wilders. They can run
the gamut and I'd definitely see the usefulness in the Warrior Channeler
class for some Male Channelers that are trying to pass themselves off as
something useful to the party while not giving up their
secret. Also given the current classes there is no need to give the Asha'man MWP (long sword) since with the Warrior Class they get that anyway. If they are of another class than they will just have to take the Feat on their own. I know that they know how to use their longsword, but honestly I think Weapon Focus might be taking it a bit far for every Asha'man to have it. Like I said before, I'm sure there are a lot that emulate Taim and refuse to acknowledge that they need a mundane weapon. I'll conceed that the Warrior Channeler may not be the most common class, but I still think that it fills its niche. I'm pretty pleased with the new channeling classes as they are, and it would take a lot of convincing to get me to change them. I except the fact that I'll never please everyone, and I wish that I could. Sorry, Magus. ![]() ![]() I meant to include the part about the angreal but forgot. I'll add that tonight. Roughly it works like this: Angreal have a Power Rating. The channeler receives a bonus to Weave checks equal to the Power Rating. The Weave Cost is also reduced by the same number as the Power Rating. Angreal PR = 1 - 8 Sa'angreal PR = 9 - 22+ To convert any already existing angreal multiply the PR by 2. Ter'angreal that require a weave sacrifice require a weave check DC = 2 x the level of the sacrifice required. The Weave Cost will be equal to 10 - the DC. Linking... I've got to think on that one a little. I'm sure that I'll need some good feedback to work that out. I've got an idea for it, but I'm sure that I'll need you all to get it just right. The other question I've got for all of you is this. How can I represent that men are stronger in the one power? I can't just give them bonus weave slots... don't have those anymore. Also I thought of changing the Shielding Weave like this: If the target is not embracing the source than it is a will save (same as it is now), but if they are embracing the source then the channeler and target roll an opposed Shielding Weave Check (this requires the target to know Shielding, if they don't they have to make a Will save). If the target wins they are not shielded. If they win by 10 or more, they can choose to shield the channeler. I also considered giving men a bonus to avoid becoming shielded, but whether I would consider that or not would depend on what bonus I may or may not give male channelers. Oh, and Magus, how can you say that the Asha'aman are not weapon? Is this not the very thing that Rand calls them. "I need weapons, Taim. Make me weapons." The Asha'aman are weapons and the Dragon is the wielder. -------------------- I like swords. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 11:20
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 253 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Also Overchanneling, is hardwired into this system.
You don't have to make any special cases for it. You can choose what DC
you are going for. And as I mentioned in the Weave Check section, for
every 10 that you beat the DC you reduce the Weave Cost by 2. Essentially
overchanneling. And as far as failing to overchannel, I've mentioned that
if you fail a Weave Check by 5 or more, then you have to make a Fort Save
equal to the DC of the Weave. If you fail the Fort Save then you have to
roll on the table in the book to see what happens to you. This will keep
people from just randomly trying to make the DC for something that is
really out of their reach. I really tried to make sure that I held onto
the spirit of Overchanneling in this system, and I think that I did a good
job of doing so as I describe above.
-------------------- I like swords. |
Zinuk |
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 11:38
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![]() Newbie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
For linking, one way to do things could be to give
the circle the following skill rating in the appropriate
Talent: circle skill rating = leader's skill rating + one fourth of each other member's skill rating For quick calculations, players should write down on their character sheet the value of a fourth of their skill ratings in Talents. If you think a fourth is too much, you could go with a fith instead. The advantage of this system is that the choice of the leader is very important to get a high skill rating: this choice depends on the weave the circle wants to use, and the circle would take advantage to change the leader depending on which weave they want to use. This is consistent with what RJ says in his BBoBA. As for the subdual damage, it should probably be spread up equally between all the members in the circle. For example, 10 subdual damage for a circle of 4 person would make 3 for two of the members and 2 for the two others. Maybe the most powerful channelers should take the more damage as they participate more to the link. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 12:21
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 253 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I've revised the original post to include the Angreal
section. I also updated the .rtf that is linked to. Zinuk, good ideas but I'm not sure if the skill level of those not leading the circle is that important. Their potential seems like it could be more important. You are of course right about a skilled leader being important. The simplest way to do this is to leave it similar to how it is now. This is what I've got bouncing around in my head. The Leader gets a bonus to his/her weave checks dependant on how many people are in the circle. The amount of subdual damage is spread to all members of the circle. But I was also thinking, that maybe something could be worked out that would delay the subdual damage to them for a certain time. Like in Salidar when Nynaeve (or was it Egwene) participated in a circle. She felt fine until after it was over. At which point she became exhausted. Any thoughts? Also I'd like to thank Aleshandre for adding that bit for those that are using the 7th Stat system. He is much more qualified than myself for making that addition. Since I don't use it I felt it best to leave it to those that do to figure out how to work it into this system. This post has been edited by Sharn Penndroen on Jun 23 2004, 12:26 AM -------------------- I like swords. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 01:19
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 733 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
ehh... I'll have to dissagree with the Warrior
Channeler still. i don't see even wilders mixing the two. In my eyes, a
warrior channeler multiclasses, not combines into one. But that's my own
two cents. Forgot bout the failing weave thing. i tried to do something similar myself but fell short. thanks! And as for Asha'man not being weapons. Sure, Dragon said that. But at the same time, asha'man have free will. They're not LITERALLY being wielded, only set loose like a pack of ravenous dogs. Even the most militant asha'man doesn't seem like an honest weapon when compaired to a damane. -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 01:38
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 253 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Well, one thing you and I have always agreed on is the philosophy that just because your view/idea is different than mine doesn't make it wrong or a bad view/idea. I respect your opinion and you present a valid arguement. I'm just not convinced for my part, and I still envision the possible use of the Warrior Channeler. Mainly I guess because I've got a character that it would fit rather well with. I guess that has affected how I can see the class being a valid class. Anyway, let's just drop the subject because I think that we will not convince each other, and I think that we can both respect each other's opinion. Everyone else will make up their own minds as to whether it is a worthwhile class or not. I also understand your point about the distinction between the asha'man and the damane. But for purposes of Tradition abilities, I would much prefer to give Asha'man a bonus to offensive weaves than to give them something like weapon focus. I feel like they do have a propencity (sp??) for offensive weaves and I wanted to represent that with their Tradition ability. I figured that if I would catch flack for anything it would be for the Wise One ability of gaining Latent Dreamer as a Tradition ability. Since not every Wise One is a Dreamer. My reasoning is, they still don't have to take the Dreamer feat. But the plus side is that they could be a Dreamer at level 1. I liked it, but also realized that it was not perfect. That sums up the whole way I feel about these classes and this system. I realize that it is still not perfect, but I feel like it is a step in the right direction and it is an improvement on using the Weave Slot DnD magic based system. I hope this atleast provides a little help to those of you who would prefer to make your own system than use this one. Hopefully there will be plenty in the community that will use atleast part of what I've done here. That is the whole reason that I did this. I have seen lots of people say that a skill based system would be good and hint at doing it, but I guess I've never seen a full blown attempt at it. So I figured that I'd give it a shot. -------------------- I like swords. | ||
MagusRogue |
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 02:37
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 733 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
Hrm... *Thinks* honestly, while damane are good at
blowing up stuff, i would think, due to their martial training, that they
would be able to hit things better, hence my idea on giving Weapon Focus.
While being able to blow things up is taught quite often, asha'man are taught to use weaves as an extention of themselves even more. If anything, i would think they would get some bonuses on just flat-out using weaves, due to familiarity with the one power, something no other tradition has. Remember that damane training is exclusively how to blow things up, with the rare few exceptions with other talents, but asha'man are trained to use the power on every day things, like pouring water or brushing your hair. An asha'man, unlike any other tradition, channels when he wakes up, and doesn't stop channeling until he goes to sleep. In fact... I got an idea. Give asha'man reduced Subdual damage for channeling, to represent the endurance and repetitive use they're taught? Maybe.... Ignore 2 damage from all weaves cast? that makes them able to ignore the damage caused by 0-level and 1st level weaves, like how they constantly use Arms of Air? This post has been edited by MagusRogue on Jun 23 2004, 02:41 AM -------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
MagusRogue |
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 02:40
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![]() Village fool. Paid well. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 733 Member No.: 26 Joined: 16-January 04 ![]() |
As for the Wise One thing, i like it. it's suiting,
and very close to their PrC focuses. jsut like windfinders with increased
ability to use Cloud Dancing better.
-------------------- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's
done. Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed. |
drothgery |
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 03:32
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 130 Member No.: 25 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I would have, but I really don't like skills & feats-ish d20 magic systems in general. ![]() -------------------- | ||
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 04:14
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 253 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I think that would be better represented with a good base attack bonus. Thus the Warrior Channeler for those that truly to put that much focus on their martial training. Remember that they also train in hand to hand aiel fighting not just the longsword. As far as being able to channel all day, subdual damage heal pretty quickly allowing them to channel a lot of small level stuff all day, but lets them become exhausted during a single heavy battle. That's why I think this is a little closer to the way the books show channeling to be. Never the less, I do like your idea of just giving them a -2 to all Weave Costs. With no bonus to Weave Checks, I think that it would still be balanced with the other Traditions. I also prefer this over the current bonus to offensive weaves. You do make a good point about their everyday (every minute) use of the One Power. I would very much be willing to change it to that. Does anyone forsee any problems with this? Good idea Magus. (I knew if I argued with you long enough, I'd get something I was willing to use.) ![]() I would still like suggestions on what to do about giving Male Channelers some edge. The Females Linking ability should not be affected by this (once I get the Linking system worked out). Any takers? I'll be thinking on it of course, but I just wanted to put a bug in your collective ear so that y'all would be thinking about it as well. Remember that we have to be careful not to make it too powerful, just a slight edge. Something equlivant to getting 1 bonus weave for level 1-5. Here are a couple of ideas that I had: 1) A certain number of reserve points that are used up before acutally cutting into subdual damage. I hate this idea because it is something that no other characters would have and why make something new for male channelers. 2) Male Channelers heal subdual damage from weaves at twice the normal rate. This makes them more likely to be at their full force when faced in any encounter, but I'm not certain that this represents the brute force strenght they posses in the one power. 3) 5/day - +2 on a weave check. Still working out the Linking as well. This post has been edited by Sharn Penndroen on Jun 23 2004, 04:23 AM -------------------- I like swords. | ||
Zinuk |
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 09:51
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![]() Newbie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6 Member No.: 166 Joined: 21-June 04 ![]() |
You are right, Sharn. I've checked up in the BBoBA and here is what is said:
This clearly indicates that the skills of the other members is not that important. But as the circle gives additionnal precision, there still should be a little bonus depending on the number of members, just as you suggested. | ||||
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