Powered by Invision Power Board


Pages: (2) 1 [2]  ( Go to first unread post ) Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Wheel of Time d20 Modern!, I know i've been gone for a while. but!!
Aleshandre
Posted: Jun 11 2004, 03:44 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Moderators
Posts: 140
Member No.: 18
Joined: 15-January 04



If you still have problems try DLing it from my personal website. Failing that, I'll have to fix the links.


--------------------
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 13 2004, 08:41 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Village fool. Paid well.
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 726
Member No.: 26
Joined: 16-January 04



nope still not working.


--------------------
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's done.

Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed.
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteICQAOLYahooMSN
Top
Aleshandre
Posted: Jun 14 2004, 02:53 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Moderators
Posts: 140
Member No.: 18
Joined: 15-January 04



Okay, the link at the Call is fixed.


--------------------
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 04:51 AM
Report PostQuote Post


Village fool. Paid well.
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 726
Member No.: 26
Joined: 16-January 04



Hey, i finally got a chance to look over the Age of Discovery book, and the setting idea's cool and all. it's not quite what i'm looking for, however. thanks for the advise though! basically, what i'm doing is just bringing the setting to d20 modern rules, not d20 modern time. I might play with the idea of a Power ability, but the problem i ran into last time is the idea of having a useless ability. basically, it was "why do i have this, when i'm never going to use it. i jsut rolled an 18 for Pow, and i don't wanna be a channeler. why'd you change the rules on me?!?!" *grumbles at one of my old players, whose job it was to ***** any time i tried to fix something* anyhow, thanks aleshandre. You gave me some stepping stones to work with.


--------------------
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's done.

Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed.
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteICQAOLYahooMSN
Top
Aleshandre
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 03:31 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Moderators
Posts: 140
Member No.: 18
Joined: 15-January 04



I know I don't have to tell you that there are very few rules in Modern that need to be ported over to do what you want. Some of the Feats and Skills are different and the Action Points, but other than that, it's all pretty much the same. As to non-lethal damage, I tend to use subdual anyway (they seem to be the same thing with a different name anyway). For more of a blend, there is always taking the base classes from WoT and turning them into AdCs (which I considered, but decided against) or just using the PrCs as AdCs. The only other difference that I can see is the Alegiences, which would help flesh out the characters, since you set them up in order of precedence.

For the Power skill, you may try adding the alternate skill based channelling rules that I wrote up. There would be a change based on the addition of the 7th stat, but it would be fairly easy to implement skill based with the Power ability. As to the "I rolled an 18 for Power and I don't want to be a channeler", all I have to say is; "Just swap it out with another ability that fits better with your character concept". The great thing about the way I layed it out is that it doesn't force the character to take channeling classes or even to channel at all (even with an 18).

This post has been edited by Aleshandre on Jun 21 2004, 03:37 PM


--------------------
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 04:32 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Village fool. Paid well.
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 726
Member No.: 26
Joined: 16-January 04



well, the problem with using a 7th stat is, when you go with the point buy system, you almost invariably have to give them more points, to reflect the existance of a 7th stat, instead of 6 stats like normal. that allows non-channelers "free points" basically. And considering i prefer Point Buy and uniform hp progression (get half your hit die every level for hp), it keeps players more balanced towards each other.

as for converting, i'm doing exactly as they decided to do with converting from D&D to D20 Modern, as per Urban Arcana. my first post suggests the advanced classes closest to the core and prestige classes found in Wheel of Time. My only problem so far is that i don't like using AdC's from Urban Arcana, as they were built with a high-magic environment in mind. The only ones i'm using from there are Street Warriors and Swashbucklers. the Modern Player's Companion Vol 2 (from Game Mechanics) has mundane versions for Glamorists and Shadow Hunters (confidence artists and bounty hunters, respectively), which i'll be using as well. I want to use Archaic Weapons Master (for blademasters) and Thrashers (for aiel), but the problem with those two are their magical abilities (imbued weapon and damage reduction, respectively), so i'm having to make mundane versions. Need a mundane name for Thrasher (their ability surge is good for aiel. +4 strength and dex, -2 on saving throws), and i'm naming the Mundane version of Archaic Weapons Master to simply Weapons Master. i'll post the revised adc's here for everyone's amusement.

This post has been edited by MagusRogue on Jun 21 2004, 06:00 PM


--------------------
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's done.

Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed.
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteICQAOLYahooMSN
Top
Aleshandre
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 04:53 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Moderators
Posts: 140
Member No.: 18
Joined: 15-January 04



The solution to the point buy system is that you give all characters 8 points more than usual, and all players must place a minimum of 8 points in any given ability, which balances them out by preventing people who can channel from abusing the system and gives non-channelers an effectively empty ability score (at-least with my system, since below 10, characters can't channel in the first place). Alternately, if only the channelers have a 7th ability, only they recieve 8 additional points, but since they have to have min 8 in each ability, they still remain balanced with the other characters, just as if all other characters have an 8 in their Pow score.

This post has been edited by Aleshandre on Jun 21 2004, 04:54 PM


--------------------
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 05:50 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Village fool. Paid well.
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 726
Member No.: 26
Joined: 16-January 04



actually the normal point buy system is that you automatically start with 8 in everything, then buy up. i'm guessing in a high-heroics setting that giving them, say, 4 more points than normal wouldn't hurt too bad...


--------------------
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's done.

Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed.
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteICQAOLYahooMSN
Top
drothgery
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 06:41 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Member No.: 25
Joined: 15-January 04



QUOTE (Aleshandre @ Jun 21 2004, 06:53 AM)
The solution to the point buy system is that you give all characters 8 points more than usual, and all players must place a minimum of 8 points in any given ability, which balances them out by preventing people who can channel from abusing the system and gives non-channelers an effectively empty ability score (at-least with my system, since below 10, characters can't channel in the first place). Alternately, if only the channelers have a 7th ability, only they recieve 8 additional points, but since they have to have min 8 in each ability, they still remain balanced with the other characters, just as if all other characters have an 8 in their Pow score.

I still think both approaches are broken. In the first case (everyone has a Pow score), a channeler has seven stats she cares about, while a non-channeler has six, but they both have the same number of points. In the second case (only channelers have a pow score), it's difficult to see a fair way to handle channelers who didn't take their first level in a channeling class (and banning this is not an option; the WoT universe has tons of people who came late to their powers).


--------------------
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 07:11 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Village fool. Paid well.
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 726
Member No.: 26
Joined: 16-January 04



drothgery's right. this is why they didn't impliment a Power score in the game. for non-channelers, its a useless skill. Note that all ability scores affect skills, as well as some aspect of gameplay for everyone. strength makes it easier to hit in melee and ups damage. Dexterity increases defense and makes ranged combat easier. Constitution gives you more hit points as well as a bonus to fortitude saves (it also determines your MDT in d20 modern). Intelligence gives you bonus skill points. wisdom ups your will save. the only ability that, outside magic and skills, is useless is charisma. addign a 7th score for power gives you an ability that's even more useless to a fighter than charisma.


--------------------
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this rant's done.

Magus the Extreme. Your wonderfully-ghoulish partner GM of Patterns of the Weave. Be fearful, indeed.
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteICQAOLYahooMSN
Top
Zinuk
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 09:03 PM
Report PostEdit PostQuote Post


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Member No.: 166
Joined: 21-June 04



I think the real problem is that they didn't implement the distinction between the three catergories of people in the WoT universe:
  • those that cannot channel nor learn to channel;
  • those that can't channel but can learn to channel;
  • those that will channel even if they don't want to (they have the spark inborn).
Once you have a game mecanic for it, the whole 7th stat problem is solved:
  • those that cannot channel nor learn to channel don't have one;
  • those that can't channel but can learn to channel only need one if the player wants to play an initiate; if not, the GM should nethertheless roll one and keep it secret in case the player changes his mind;
  • those that will channel even if they don't want to have to roll one.
As for implementing the three categories of people into the game, here is what I propose. If the player wants to play a wilder or an initiate, he must have the ability to channel, and so must have a 7th Power score. Nasty GMs could require the player to take a feat to have this option available. For all other players, the GM could secretly roll a d20. On a result of 20, the character can learn to channel. In this case, the GM secretly rolls the 7th power stat. This way, most people won't know if they can channel or not, and it may be for them a surprise later on in the game that they can (for example, a character playing a whitecloak could discover that he can channel, perhaps completely shifting his positions on channelers).
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
drothgery
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 09:53 PM
Report PostQuote Post


Elder Scholar
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Member No.: 25
Joined: 15-January 04



QUOTE (Zinuk @ Jun 21 2004, 11:03 AM)
I think the real problem is that they didn't implement the distinction between the three catergories of people in the WoT universe:

  • those that cannot channel nor learn to channel;
  • those that can't channel but can learn to channel;
  • those that will channel even if they don't want to (they have the spark inborn).
Once you have a game mecanic for it, the whole 7th stat problem is solved:

  • those that cannot channel nor learn to channel don't have one;
  • those that can't channel but can learn to channel only need one if the player wants to play an initiate; if not, the GM should nethertheless roll one and keep it secret in case the player changes his mind;
  • those that will channel even if they don't want to have to roll one.
As for implementing the three categories of people into the game, here is what I propose. If the player wants to play a wilder or an initiate, he must have the ability to channel, and so must have a 7th Power score. Nasty GMs could require the player to take a feat to have this option available. For all other players, the GM could secretly roll a d20. On a result of 20, the character can learn to channel. In this case, the GM secretly rolls the 7th power stat. This way, most people won't know if they can channel or not, and it may be for them a surprise later on in the game that they can (for example, a character playing a whitecloak could discover that he can channel, perhaps completely shifting his positions on channelers).

If your goal is to try and accurately model the novels in this respect, the problem might be solved with mechanics along those lines. But if your goal is to provide a balanced and fun game, then you haven't even made an effort to solve the problem.

As a GM, the only reason not to let someone become a channeler if they want to is because it would cause problems with running the game (iniatiates who haven't become full memebers of their tradition, female wilders who have to hide their ability, or male channelers with creeping insanity could cause problems to different types of games). Determining that a PC can't channel because a die roll came up badly... no, that's just not fair to the players at all.

This post has been edited by drothgery on Jun 21 2004, 09:54 PM


--------------------
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Zinuk
Posted: Jun 21 2004, 10:32 PM
Report PostEdit PostQuote Post


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Member No.: 166
Joined: 21-June 04



QUOTE
Determining that a PC can't channel because a die roll came up badly... no, that's just not fair to the players at all.


Sorry if I wasn't clear in what I said, but this problem of a PC unable to channel because of a bad die roll would only occur if the player was absolutely sure he didn't want to channel when he created his character but then changes mind.

The d20 roll made to determine wether or not a PC can channel is only made for PC that don't plan to play a channeling class at any moment of the game. There is no rolling for PCs wanting to take a channeling class, even if they plan to take a channeling class only later on; they must just tell the GM so at character creation to be sure the GM doesn't mind having a future channeler in the group (and not having him do the d20 roll in question). This way, there is no problem with a PC not being able to play the character he wants to play (unless, of course, the GM doesn't want channelers in the party for the reasons drothgery mentionned).

This way, the only problem that could arrise is when a player changes his mind on the subject and the roll the GM made declares him unable to channel or so weak to do so that it is useless. In this case, the GM should talk over the problem with the player.

A last thing: rolling methods for the 7th stat should be nice, like 10+2d4, so that a channeler couldn't be useless just because of a roll. The best way I see things to make sure channeler don't have a weak 7th stat is that they must take a feat that give them the 7th stat and add them a few points in the point-buy system so that they can have a decent 7th stat and also decent other stats. Of course, this option would only be opened to PC that play a channeling class.

I think that, this way, everyone would be pleased.

EDIT: changed the dice rolling method (I gotted mixed up between 2d4 and 1d8 and so gave too much (2d8!))

This post has been edited by Zinuk on Jun 22 2004, 08:24 AM
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
1 Members: Zinuk

Topic OptionsPages: (2) 1 [2]  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll