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Llewin |
Posted: Oct 25 2004, 02:32
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
My co-GM and I would like some opinions on our
work-in-progress on adapting the channelling rules so that they
more-accurately reflect RJ's universe during the Age of Illusions... Any
suggestions or constructive criticizms or even praise are appreciated ![]() 1. Learning new weaves
The following rules apply to learning new weaves through research.
Recovering spent weave slots:
In order to more accurately mirror how a channeler casts against a ranged target and the invisibility of a weave being cast we have adjusted the ranged-attack rules for casting weaves: Using weaves that require a ranged target:
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Llewin |
Posted: Oct 25 2004, 06:16
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
*snuffle* what, no ascerbic rantings about how
horrible my channeling changes are? *grin* lol... i would love feedback pweeze ![]() ~llewin |
drothgery |
Posted: Oct 26 2004, 06:03
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 180 Member No.: 25 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Well, you asked... * 3 weaves/level for "free" is a bit much * nothing for wilders is a bit punative (and I'm the guy who's argued that wilder's should be a pathetic NPC class, or just replaced outright) * success of research shouldn't be based off of a concentration check; it should be based off of a weavesight check * the DCs get absurd pretty quickly * there's no penalty for failed research saves beyond an inability to do research for the rest of the day * Is there any reason at all for keeping the "all or nothing" weave restoration, but changing from eight hours overnight rest to six hours rest at any time? * The targeting rules seem unnecessary and complex; there are already rules for cover granting bonuses to ref saves and attacks, so ranged touch weaves and weaves that force a ref save are covered by the existing mechanics -------------------- | ||
Llewin |
Posted: Oct 26 2004, 07:01
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
Thanks droth. Ok let me tell you where i'm coming from... I didnt feel the three for free was a bit much since an initiate is being actively trained but i'd like to hear what others think... I'm not sure where to go with wilders however, i do see your point but if you're not being trained you dont get a weave for free realistically, unless you see it with weavesight. I used concentration for the research checks because the checks are based on the overchannelling table on the premise that if you are dabbling with the onepower in a way that you have little or no experience, eg. trying to figure out new ways to use it, you are treading dangerous ground. The DCs only get absurd if you try to stretch beyond reasonable boundaries, atleast i think they are reasonable considering how quickly you can rack up points in concentration, especially as a wilder (which balances initiates learning them free, wilders get a bonus to research effectively) The penalty for failed research is exactly the same as the penalty for failed overchanneling. As for the all or nothing weave restoration, that is something that i wanted to change and its a work in progress. we lowered it to 6 hours because it appears from RJs writings that aes sedai regenerate their abilities in channelling faster than a normal person recovers from exhaustion *shrug* like i said, work in progress ![]() Now as for the targeting rules, they really arent complicated, its basically the same rules that apply to a ranged weapon attack only its based on the characters ability with the one power rather than an archer's ability with a bow.... now i have a major issue with most of the saves in the weaves in the game book and we dont tend to use most of them. here's my issue... HOW DO YOU DODGE HARDENED AIR?? ![]() Point being, it isnt possible to 'get out of the way' of the one power unless you can see it being woven or feel it being woven. The few exceptions to this rule are situations where the power is manifested in a visual way such as a fireball flying through the air, sure, you can try to jump out of the way... but if an AS is wrapping you in arms of air? there's no way, one second you can move the next you cant, thats all there is to it. So instead of putting the focus on the person being attacked and their ability to get out of the way we put the focus on the channeller and their ability to actually direct their weave effectively and accurately. I really dont see it as being that complicated and i'd appreciate it if you could show me how it is more complicated than ranged attacks in general? for example lets say Toviendei Shorloran, a Domani Accepted in the White Tower has an INT of 17 and a WIS of 12 so she gets a +3 and a +1 modifier for her channeling stats. She's also a lvl 4 initiate so half her level gives her a +2 modifer to her roll for a total modification of +6 at lvl 4. Seems a bit high compared to a lvl 4 woodsman with his bow? i dont know... if he has a reasonable dex, say 15, he has a +2 modifier right there plus his BAB which should be +4 at lvl 4 if memory serves (i dont have my game book in front of me) so thats +6 all by itself, however most of what he is going to firing at at 4th level is not going to have a DEF score of 18 or higher which is where the DC for the channelling success begins, so it is still not an even comparison, we purposefully made it a bit difficult for the channeller to 'aim effectively' at lower levels but i dont think unreasonably so... what does everyone else think? |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Oct 26 2004, 02:49
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
Llewin, I agree with a lot of what you said, at least
in concept. Especially about the not being able to dodging a weave that
you cannot see. I'm just confused as to why you have a base ranged DC that
is different from the targets defense. You should have to make a ranged
attack against them, as far as I can tell. Why would it be different from
their defense, except, perhaps, their defense flat footed since they cant
dodge away from something that they cant see (unless they are a channeler
of the same sex, of course). That said, I hate what you did to wilders. Yes, wilders dont get taught new weaves, but it is pretty obvious from the books that Rand can learn weaves without being taught. Some might chalk it up to LTT telling him subconsciouslly what to do or something; but I think that wilders learn weaves organically; while initiates are taught. I dont allow my wilder to take a weave that he cant justify why he might have done it; and we generally give him his "one weave per level" in the heat of battle when there is something that needs to be done...like, #$$^ I need to put that fire out, or something. That seems like a better house rule than saying that they cant learn any weaves except with weavesite; because then you're required (sort of) as a GM to have the same sexed channelers weaving around them or else they are pretty useless as player characters. And I like the Wilder class, so it would prefer that it wasn't useless. As for the effects of channeling research being the same as failed checks for overchanneling, that doesn make sense to me either. I am reminded of Siuan and Leane practicing for their test for the shawl...there were weaves that when performed correctly made pretty flashing lights, when not, made a loud bang that gave you a headache. I feel like that would be more the effects of channeling research, sure you stand the chance of stilling yourself and so forth; but also of having a whole slew of weird effects that were unintended such as explosions, strange lights and sounds, and maybe making an entirely different weave than you intended to. ![]() -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Llewin |
Posted: Oct 26 2004, 06:51
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
OK. Thanks to you as well Z. I felt that the Wilder's bonus to overchanneling balanced with the initiate getting free weaves since i was using the overchanneling system for the research (which i kindof thought could just as easily be organic as systematic researching...) You dont think its enough of a balance? The reason we picked a DC of 18 instead of the DEF of the target is to reflect that the individuals ability to 'get out of the way' or their armor's ability to deflect damage has nothing to do with a channeller hitting them with a weave. We felt it had more to do with the channeller being effective and able to aim accurately. Does that seem reasonable? I look at it this way... is it going to be harder for a channeller to wrap arms of air around a myrdraahl than it is to wrap arms of air around some random guardsman or a trolloc? I dont think it would be. I think the difficulty would be the same for all of them...they cant see it coming so why would their defense rating have anything to do with it? make sense or no? Also as far as the Initiates getting weaves, its important to note that they *only* get those three free weaves if they have had a higher level channeller teaching them during their level progression...if not then they get no extras and the wilder will always have their bonus to overchannel when researching. I do think that your suggestion that the penalty for failing a research attempt be more along the lines of the books in that they could make a bomb or just a whoopee cushion sound or who knows what... I'll have to think about that. Anyone have ideas of what the different failures could be (obviously though one of them would have to be stilling) Keep the help coming please ![]() |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Oct 26 2004, 08:23
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
I think you should create a list of possible results
based on a die roll (kindof like a wand of wonder). The degree of damage
should be based on the degree of failure (a natural 1 should always risk
stilling and death). The same table should be useable for overchanneling
or unravelling a weave and for experimenting with ter'angreal. There
should be a "resulting weave/effect" table for experimenting and for
unravelling and a "damage" table for all of the above.
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Llewin |
Posted: Oct 26 2004, 10:15
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
Ale so you're thinking two separate tables for
unraveling, ter'angreal experimentation, and weave research.... One is a random % die roll for effect on failure and the other is a table on the inward effect on the channeller based on how badly they fail? |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Oct 27 2004, 04:13
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Correct. That is precisely what I meant, though for
ter'angreal, unless there are multiple uses for it, the random effects
would be inappropriate. -------------------- |
Niveus |
Posted: Nov 1 2004, 02:03
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
check out the wild surges table from the Tomb of
Magic for Ad&d 2nd Edition it gives some good ideas just modify it so
it is more wheel of time if I can find it in PDF format I will post
it niv -------------------- ![]() |
Llewin |
Posted: Nov 1 2004, 03:18
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Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 178 Member No.: 138 Joined: 25-April 04 ![]() |
hook me up with pdf at hallet2004@godsfamily.com if
you find one niv ok? ![]() ~llewin |
Niveus |
Posted: Nov 1 2004, 11:30
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
hmm I can't find a PDF file im going to keep looking
its a huge table based on percentile so I cant really type it out but i
will keep looking Niv -------------------- ![]() |
Kaimus |
Posted: Nov 3 2004, 08:05
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![]() Newbie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4 Member No.: 193 Joined: 25-October 04 ![]() |
Heya. I'm the co-GM. Figured I'd drop in (well, not
drop in. I've been skulking about for a bit) and try to force everyone
into more critisism and argument.
![]() IMO, the issue with learning new weaves isn't one of RJ's universe, since in the stories, wilder ARE nerfed. The issue is balance. We're trying desperately to find a way to make Wilder a plausible starting class. As it stands, using the universe we've been given, wilders are nearly useless until they can find training. (Using Rand as an example of wilders is a bit unfair since he's kinda...well...he's the Dragon. ![]()
This idea I like a lot. Any possibility of helping us elaborate on that? That would be a frustratingly fun table to make players go through during downtimes. ![]() All of my other opinions are well covered in Llewin's posts. *nods seriously* Kaimus | ||
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