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> Fiery sword weave, is it broken or am I just letting it be?
Kakita Aramoro
Posted: Feb 1 2004, 08:11 PM
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this weave says that you can make any type of weapon you like, so one of my players cast it at lvl 3 in the shape of a lance, tied off the weave and handed it to the armsman. the armsman then proceeded to charge his poor opponents, and made a crittical hit.
now here is the question, the third level weave makes a weapon that deals 2d10 dmg independent of what shape it's in. A lance deals double damage when charging, and x3 on a critical hit. thus, on a charge a fiery lance would deal (4d10 + 2x str mod) dmg, and on a crit would deal (8d10+ 4x str mod) dmg. or am I reading the weave entirely wrong?

background info: second level wilder overchanelling for one weave level to make the weapon, tying it off means it sticks around for the next day and 18 hours, unless she unties it first.

This post has been edited by Kakita Aramoro on Feb 1 2004, 08:13 PM
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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Feb 1 2004, 08:39 PM
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Actually, x3 damage would be 12d10 plus all that other stuff. That's how I would figure it as well. Cool, eh?


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Kakita Aramoro
Posted: Feb 1 2004, 09:49 PM
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when you double a double, you go off the base, not the double, or in this case if you had a regular lance it would deal 1d8 normal, 2d8 charge, 3d8 critical, or 4d8 critical on a charge, don't know if this rule is in WoT campaign setting, but it is in PHB and DMG so at least I don't have to worry about 12d10. nonetheless 8d10+8 is insane at lvl 2, just 4d10 is horible, It almost makes me want to employ it against the Heroes, but can't bring myself to do it before a more survivable lvl 5, when an initiate could do it w/o overchanneling.
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KSBsnowowl
Posted: Feb 1 2004, 10:24 PM
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I know that some GM's rule that things such as Fiery Sword can't be tied off. Something about having to maintain the flows, otherwise the fire would burn you too. Or you could simply rule that if tied off it will burn anyone but the one who wove it. They both disagree with a strict reading of the rules, but I think that they fit with the setting (especially the first one).


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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 05:49 PM
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Doesn't it say in the guidebook that the "fiery sword" can only be weilded by the caster because "the flames do not harm the channeler", so wouldn't that mean that it would hurt everyone else besides the channeler? I don't really see anything wrong with tying off the weave, but I do see the point about having to 'channel the essence'. It would make sense that the channeler would have to stay connected to the weave so that the fire would not backfire and attack the weilder. In my own mind this makes sense, let me know what all you peoples think.

This post has been edited by Blaeric Fen on Feb 3 2004, 05:50 PM


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Targul
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 07:18 PM
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I agree with Blaeric. I would say that the weave is attuned to the person who creates it and therefore doesn't hurt them. I would leave it to the GM thought to determine if the weave can be passed off though. It would just deal the damage to the person wielding the weapon then each turn as well.


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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 07:27 PM
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That's exactly what I was getting at, I just didn't know how to put it into the right words.


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Mantyluoto
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 07:38 PM
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Just to chuck a fox in the hen coup,

It says that you create a weapon of fire. The weapon can take any shape you desire though normal weapon proficiencies apply. The damage the weapon deals depends on the casting level not on the shape of the weapon. The weapons flames do not harm you, although they sear and damage creatures struck by the weapon they do not ignite flammable materials.

No where in that does it state that the weapon allows critical rolls. Yes it does state that you have to be proficient with a longsword to use a longsword sized weapon but the damage is fire not sharpened steel.

I made a ruling in my game much to my players disgust that said any weapons that are created by the One Power do not have a critical threat. He was actually using Blade of Fire at the time.

Just my 2p worth



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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 07:51 PM
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Manty, your 2p worth is much welcomed. I didn't even think twice about that. No, wait, I didn't even notice that part. But it does make sense.


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drothgery
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 08:27 PM
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That's probably overkill; saying that a Power-created weapon (either of Air or of Fire) only crits on a 20 is probably fine.


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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 08:30 PM
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but what would the crit be? the weapon that's made?


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Mantyluoto
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 08:43 PM
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overkill or not i thought it was better to get my player away from the hack and slash kind of gaming. the one power offers so many more interesting weaves than blade of fire or fiery sword. by taking away the crutical it seemed to force my player to use his other weaves. trust me it works just fine.



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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE (drothgery @ Feb 3 2004, 03:27 PM)
That's probably overkill; saying that a Power-created weapon (either of Air or of Fire) only crits on a 20 is probably fine.

drothgery is right here. Unless otherwise stated, all attacks other than subdual attacks ALWAYS has a crit threat. If the threat range is not said, it's 20/x2. This includes weaves/spells that require an attack roll. This has been a rule since D20 was thought up long ago. And as it says the damage is based on the weave, so is the threat range, the standard 20/x2 for all rolled attacks without a specified crit range or multiplier.
Personally, this isn't a problem. How often do people roll 20's? not very. And remember, if it uses an attack roll, even a Touch or Ranged Touch, you can crit as long as it's not subdual damage.

This post has been edited by MagusRogue on Feb 3 2004, 09:09 PM


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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 09:19 PM
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But since it's a weave & not an ordinary attack would it still have a crit?


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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (Blaeric Fen @ Feb 3 2004, 04:19 PM)
But since it's a weave & not an ordinary attack would it still have a crit?

*nods* That's exactly what i was trying to say. Any attack roll, regardless of why you're making the attack roll, unless it's subdual or against an inanimate object, has the ability to make a Critical Hit. This includes Fiery Sword. And if it doesn't say a crit range, assume 20/x2.
ANY damaging weave with an attack roll can make a Crit. Fiery Sword, Grenade, Blades of Fire, Tool of Air, Wand of Fire, and Rend are all weaves that demand an attack roll, and thus are all weaves that can score a Critical Threat on a natural roll of 20. You could make a case for Touch of Death as well, but i'd only apply the critical multiplier for the first round of damage.


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Mantyluoto
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 09:27 PM
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cool thanx for clearing that up Magus

that'll please my player no end sad.gif


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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 09:28 PM
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On the same note, Earthquake, Fireball, the damage to people you didn't aim for with a Grenade (ie those in the burst radius, not the person hit), Fire Trap, Strike of Death, and maybe a couple more do damage, but no attack roll is made. Thus, those attacks cannot score crits. At the same time, note the damage differences. Those who don't need to make attack rolls generally do alot more damage than weaves that do.


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Blaeric Fen
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 09:29 PM
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I've always been under the impression that critical hits were only for attacks done with weapons or unarmed. How could an attack deal more damage just because of chance? No matter what the damage would be in a certain range unless there were outside factors acting on it.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE (Mantyluoto @ Feb 3 2004, 04:27 PM)
cool thanx for clearing that up Magus

that'll please my player no end sad.gif

LOL I don't see why. Unless he either has Improved Crit for the weapon he made (note that while the damage is dependent on the level of the Weave, proficiencies (including feats demanding said proficiencies) are based off the weapon formed), he has to roll 20's to get a crit. Even with Improved Crit, he';d have to roll a 19 or 20 to do a crit. Bad odds. Unless the player has loaded dice. *EG*


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MagusRogue
Posted: Feb 3 2004, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (Blaeric Fen @ Feb 3 2004, 04:29 PM)
I've always been under the impression that critical hits were only for attacks done with weapons or unarmed. How could an attack deal more damage just because of chance? No matter what the damage would be in a certain range unless there were outside factors acting on it.

A Critical Hit represents the chance that you REALLY stuck it where it hurts. Just like you can stab a sword expertly into someone's heart with a Crit, you can place an arrow or a magical ray right through someone's head. Basically, a crit is an expertly-placed hit that often strikes vital organs. So it makes sense that you can put a Fiery Blade down someone's throat with a Crit hit.

As a side note, if anyone was slick enough to be able to aim a fireball down someone's throat, i'd award a crit there. *laughs*


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