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Aleshandre |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 07:11
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
This entire discussion has been hashed out 3 times
(perhaps more, but I only saw 3 - not including this one). One of those is
somewhere on this forum and the other 2 are on the now-deleted Wizards WoT
board. Unfortunately, however; the thread has long since dropped off, so I
can't link it. -------------------- |
Niveus |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 07:41
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
yeah I remember seeing one a long time ago but I
never saw any stats on it though so the consensus seems to be armour good ![]() weapons bad ![]() DR mixxed ![]() Def mixxed ![]() hardness all over the place ![]() what if i made three seperate stats for the armour? one for Star wars? 3.0? and 3.5? and state weapons of Cuendillar were never made becouse there were more efficeint ways of dealing with Cuendillar Armour some ideas on that Arms of air: can crush them through the small non Cuendillar covered areas or at the very least peel the armour off as the straps would not be made of Cuendillar Harden Air: suffication Balefire: even with the + to reflex saves you can still fail -------------------- ![]() |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 08:22
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
Niveus, write them up however you want. What *I* need
is two forms, one using the cuellindar as a bonus to armor class per
compatability rules, and one using it totally as damage
reduction. Did you miss my post a ways back? About lowering the DR a bit, and then having it increase with energy attacks? -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Niveus |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 09:43
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
Im afraid I did lol alright well im going to have to do some thinking on what the bonuses should be i will try and remake it by friday -------------------- ![]() |
Sharn Penndroen |
Posted: Sep 23 2004, 11:30
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![]() Lemming Extraordinare ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 383 Member No.: 15 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Right, as I sort of mentioned at the end of my last
post, you only need concern yourself with what to do if a player does it.
I don't think it would have been used in the age of legends. Maybe some
plating on armored vehicles (I doubt the whole thing) or something along
those lines, but the ground troops are going to try to stay hidden.
-------------------- Not all that is gold, glitters. Not all who wonder
are lost. - Tolkein |
Niveus |
Posted: Sep 30 2004, 10:54
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
i decided to scrap the whole adamantine version as
infinate hardness is just non game freindly instead i focused on the
bonuses versus balefire and its overall lightness due to advanced
metelurgy techniques I will at some later date with a lot of effort make a decent making Cuendillar Armour table so you can have custom armour types -------------------- ![]() |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Oct 4 2004, 04:42
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
so I've been thinking more about cuellindar, due to
the cuellindar armor and golem that have been submitted to me for the AoL
netbook. I know that it says in the books that its indestructable, but
that could be industractable to NOW right? Shouldn't there be some way in
the AoLs to due something to it? At least game mechanically anyways? Could possibly weapons forged with the O.P. cut through it, for instance? -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Niveus |
Posted: Oct 4 2004, 08:53
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
give it complete dr/+4 and dr 10/- for instance?
-------------------- ![]() |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Oct 4 2004, 11:36
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
sorry Niveus, you lost me there.
-------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Oct 5 2004, 12:49
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
For the record, Cuendillar is indestructable to all
mortal creatures and all devices of mortals. It cannot be destroyed; even
by the most destructive weave ever invented (Balefire), so for all intents
and purposes, cuendillar is completely indestructable as far as humans.
Ogier, Trollocs, Myrdraal, etc. are concerned. Even Power Wrought weapons
can't destroy Cuendillar, since "any force directed against it only makes
it stronger". Following the logic of this 'fact', it is clear that since a Gholam is completely invulnerable to all weaves of the One Power directed against it, and since cuendillar is for all intents and purposes completely indestructable: Creating a cuendillar gholam is only slightly less munchkin than having the DO himself break out to confront level 1 characters. Even at epic levels of 30 - 40, there is no way for any character to defeat a cuendillar gholam, except creating a seemless iron container around said creature and turning it into cuendillar. Even that assumes that the gholam doesn't figure out what is happening before the container is sealed and tries to escape. -------------------- |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Oct 5 2004, 01:05
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
Aleshandre, we are basing this whole idea on the fact
that the people of the current era believe cuellindar to be
indestructable. Does that have to mean that it actually was? Given how
much has been lost since the Age of Legends, it is pure supposition on all
of our parts as to what was avaibible for technology and weaves. I would like to use cuellindar in my AoL campaign and not just as a nice bowl that cant be broken (which is a mildly ridiculous use for it). Hence my question about what is more important, exact cannon (which can be argued against anyways, giving that it is the oppinions of people in the current era, definately not fact) or game playability. Why would the forces of light have bothered to hide the seals on the Dark Ones prison if they were completely indestructable? And why are they degrading now? -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Aleshandre |
Posted: Oct 5 2004, 04:34
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![]() Wielder of Callandor, Master and Commander of the Ashaman ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 268 Member No.: 18 Joined: 15-January 04 ![]() |
Okay, first, note that I said that cuendillar is
indestructable to all mortal means, second, it has taken the DO
(who is NOT mortal) a few thousand years to destroy the seals, which are
part of the seal on his prison, thus they are in close and constant touch
with his power. Third, in the books, we "saw" cuendillar figurines hit
directly by balefire and survive. If there was any weave or
force that could destroy cuendillar, it would be balefire (excepting if
there is a weave that can change cuendillar back into iron) simply because
that is the most destructive weave that has ever been mentioned in the
novels. None of the Forsaken have ever said that cuendillar could be
destroyed - in fact the closest that they ever came to mentioning
cuendillar is to say that ter'angreal are "nearly impossible to
destroy". If you want to include cuendillar armor and weapons in your
campaign, that's your choice. I am simply making a case on why it should
not be done and especially why a gholam made from cuendillar should not
exist. Even if cuendillar is "nearly" indestructable, rather than
completely indestructable, it would by the rules be impossible to kill
one, except by starvation. -------------------- |
Niveus |
Posted: Oct 12 2004, 07:42
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 192 Member No.: 171 Joined: 4-July 04 ![]() |
lol ok lets say it grants DR -/+4 and 10/- meaning you have to have a +4 or higher to scratch the thing and even if you do it still has DR 10 -------------------- ![]() | ||
Zarozynia |
Posted: Oct 12 2004, 05:07
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
Ah.... ![]() A thought. -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Quillion |
Posted: Oct 13 2004, 02:10
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 171 Member No.: 11 Joined: 6-January 04 ![]() |
Heartstone has never been shown in the books to be
made in the forging of weapons or armor. So from the age of legends I
think its not following the themes of RJ's books. Yet many times I have
created things that are divergent fromt he books. HEARTSTONE: (kiss the first rule of game mechanic design. Keep It simple stupid) Now in modern timeline of the books since many new things are being done, I can see someone making armor and even a sword. Heartstone is indestructable but not immobile nor unstopable(It can still be picked up and moved so it does not abosrb all of the kinetic energy directed at it) As to this silly notion that powerwrought swords can hurt heartstone. I will remind these woolheads that BALEFIRE does not hurt heartstone, nor does heartstone hurt heartstone. Is there an established and playtested d20 mechanic for armor or swords made of an nigh-indestructable metal? Yes! Adamantine! ARMOR heartstone armror should work like adamantine armor in 3.5. After a certian threashold the kinetic energy would bypass the protection provided by the armor, though never damaging the armor itself. Even if in heartstone full plate you can still be wrapped in air (you can pick up heartstone items, these are not weave resistant like the gholam and the cat's head amulet.) and you have eye slits and ambient air tempature issues. When subject to balefire in full hearstone armor, the armor survives and you do not (If you use a ranged touch attack varient of the balefire weave you might allow the armor to stack) Why? becaues that mechanic is playtested and since there is no heartstone armor in the books this is how it should work in a D20 GAME. A playtested mechanic is almost always preferable to an unplaytested piece. A Final note your walking around with heartstone, cool people collect heartstone (including the white tower), your also walking around with a king's ransom as armor. Paying 10,000 troops, backed up by 1-10 channelers one days pay to beat you up and take it from you is really quite profitable. Assuming you can find some one skilled enough to make this in the first place, don't gain weight or grow taller your clothes cannot be resized to fit you. SWORD I would use the basic mechanics set forth for adamantine swords with minor changes because you may want to represent it being better than powerwrought swords you could make it a +3 to a +5 enhancement bonus. If you use the sunder rules I would basicly say the hardness and hit points of heartstone sword and armor. RANT! RANT! RANT! ![]() Heartstone Golem (gholam) ok this is just plain dumb, I don't care what you would like to say. Its my opinion. It's more than ignorant it's just plain stupid. There is no preceident for a material type golem in WoT. If you want to do this go play dnd. Gholams are living creatures that apparently age and must feed on blood in order to survive not a piece of animated rock. I know I won't disuade those who have already done the work or already have this set in their mind that its "a great idea" ![]() I might have had a use for heartstone armor and swords (with the 3.5 adamantine rules) but I sure has hell would never use a heartstone golem (gholam) and if I did I would just use the epic level adamantine golem. (Still a fooking dumb idea) Steve (Who finally got paid today by Bastion Press. WOOHOO! I am a proffesional game designer!) ![]() -------------------- Quillion Ogre Sage of Pencil Pushers Publishing Mythical Gaming! Coming soon for 3P's the Last Dominion: Night of Fire by Randy Madden (Eosin the Red) Here There Be Monsters by Steven Russell (Quillion) "A hundred thousand lemmings can't be wrong!"--Anonymous |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Oct 13 2004, 04:25
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
I'm not trying to be a umm...five letter word for a
female dog about this or anything, but did you read this thread? The
adamantine armor as an idea for cuellindar armor has been discussed, in
some detail in fact. As for what did or didn't exist in the Age of Legends, if I only base the campaign setting off of the information that we have from the books we will have a total of the shadowspawn known, globulbs, cuellindar for cups and the like, ellstone, jo cars and sho wings, call boxes, and shocklances. Forgive me if I forgot to mention an item or two but that is all that I'm not mentioned, an item or two. I've scoured every book, including the BoBA and every net source I can find. It IS NOT enough to make a campaign setting out of. Period. I am trying to take as little leway as I can, and stick mosly to the types of ideas that fit with what the Age of Legends might have been like. Cuellindar armor makes sense, if it is a bit heavy. Yes, it wouldn't have been used by everybody, but as body armor...it even fits as a natural progression from the types of armor that we have today that our troups are using; another thing that I would like to do with the setting as much as possible - that being making it possible that somewhere along the way our culture progressed into the AoL. That doesn't mean that I am going to turn away somebody's idea just because I might not use it in my campaign. I guess that I'm getting a little annoyed with the constant 'this would never happen' - please the people that are actually helping me with this huge project, dont stop with the ideas just because people are being um...very vocal in their ideas about what the Age of Legends would be like. WE DONT KNOW. What little the Forsaken have given us (the only reliable source) is vague and has been known to contradict itself. That's part of the fun of making this campaign setting and remember, if you dont like, you dont have to use it. -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Quillion |
Posted: Oct 13 2004, 04:48
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 171 Member No.: 11 Joined: 6-January 04 ![]() |
yes I read the thread but it seemed some people have
silly ideas about powerwrought swords breaking heartstone. I am not saying no to do it I am giving support to the idea of heartstone armor and swords (as adamantine). However the idicoy of heartstone gholams is evident. I would much rather see a female class level advanced gholam (such as levels in proffesional, scout, wanderer or armsman) than see you break with the THEMES of the Wheel of Time I understand the need for new material, and I have often supported it. I myself took alot of crap for things like echedna, the slayer template, the corrupted of shadar logoth, and the aiel feats. Don't even let me get started on the Prestige Classes fight we had in Age of Illusions board. (I still love and hate you freya, lol) When I had the time for the Wheel of Time I did a heck of a lot of work on the Threads of the Pattern netbook. I know what your talking about. I worked on the Shadow made flesh and got crap for the big a$$ giant maze i made over the fingers of the dragon. What I am saying is that the Idea of a heartstone golem does not follow the THEMES of the Wheel of Time. There are many other ideas that are spoken of about golams that no one touches. A gholam tried to kill grendal. I am sure I would love to see you create a gholam that was after a forsaken. A free willed gholam? could you make a player class in the age of legends out of the gholam, watching it advance and grow from agnior's experiments. Or how about writing up npc's for the other 5 gholams out there, giving them names and exploring different themes about created life. Perhaps your right in that I was being negative and not offering another way of exploring the idea. This should tell you about the level of offense the idea of a Heartstone gholam instilled in me. I hope these ideas help. HEARTSTONES DESTRUCTION yes there is a very simple way to destory heartsone, its the basis for why they become brittle and why there seems to be no great force tearing them apart. Lets assume that you could make a object that had molecular bonds and atomic bonds so strong you could not break them. This is heartstone. guess what eventually this item will fall apart. Why? because of nuclear decay which occours to ever piece of matter in the universe. So you want to destory something simple increase the rate of nuclear decay. this is one of the reasons that balefire does not affect heartstone because your simply strengthing the nuclear bonds of the material. but increase the decay (letting the lord of chaos rule) and it crumbles. Now this is all based on Stone Dog's theory that RJ is a physics major and that a great deal of the magic are based on theories of physics. hey its just a theory This post has been edited by Quillion on Oct 13 2004, 04:58 AM -------------------- Quillion Ogre Sage of Pencil Pushers Publishing Mythical Gaming! Coming soon for 3P's the Last Dominion: Night of Fire by Randy Madden (Eosin the Red) Here There Be Monsters by Steven Russell (Quillion) "A hundred thousand lemmings can't be wrong!"--Anonymous |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Oct 13 2004, 05:49
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
![]() I agree with you about a weave that should destroy cuellindar, and thanks for that scientific explanation. I hadn't gotten that far yet, but that makes perfect sense. So that weave would pretty much make the cuellindar brittle and breakable, like with the seals. I love it. Do you want to write it up, or should I? (Please say that you'd like to...I have so much to do on this project, but I'll pretend I understand if you say no.) And maze of the fingers of the dragon? Is this still something that you have? I would love love LOVE to see it. -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
Quillion |
Posted: Oct 13 2004, 06:04
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![]() Elder Scholar ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderators Posts: 171 Member No.: 11 Joined: 6-January 04 ![]() |
no it was part of a right up for the shadow made
flesh, though I can look on my old computer and see if its still
there ok lets see I am writing Here there be mosnters for p3's last dominion setting (the project I love working on, and have nearly half done) I am writing the revisioned mosnters series for p3's last domionion setting. (due on the 15th of november) I have a half-assed write up of the fallen kingdoms for the last dominon I am working with my artist amanda roth on artwork for all of this I am working on a trilogy of epic level adventures for my own fledgling epic level setting. I am also working on the setting bible for said epic level setting. I am working with three other companies to make sure my epic level adventrue does not violate product identity. I am workin with eosin to make sure I am on theme and feel with all last dominion stuff. I am waiting on my editor to send me the Mhorda elves for the last dominion. I am in the middle of changing jobs. I am playtesting a bunch of these last dominion monsters I just canceled my biweekly campaign and am handing it over to a friend to run for me. I just put a querry letter into dragon, dungeon ronnin arts and kenzerco If I did have the time or the ability to make an obligation I would do it in a heart beat (though I think it should be a true power weave and not a one power weave), and If I did I would go back and finish "Shadoweve" So please be understanding. (Eosin's list is longer than mine) -------------------- Quillion Ogre Sage of Pencil Pushers Publishing Mythical Gaming! Coming soon for 3P's the Last Dominion: Night of Fire by Randy Madden (Eosin the Red) Here There Be Monsters by Steven Russell (Quillion) "A hundred thousand lemmings can't be wrong!"--Anonymous |
Zarozynia |
Posted: Oct 13 2004, 06:14
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![]() Seer of Darkness ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 418 Member No.: 131 Joined: 10-April 04 ![]() |
Yeah that's pretty much where I'm at, sigh. And I
agree that it should probably be a True Power weave. Only then it becomes
useless as a game balance thing...as most channelers are not going to have
access to the True Power. Sigh. I want Cuellindar armor as a game balance
for how ridiculously powerful channerlers will be in the AoL but if its
indestructable, it doesn't seem balanced there. Even with the True Power
weave which can degrade it. Anybody want to take a crack at making this weave, either as a One Power weave or as a True Power weave? (There's more mechanic difference there than description difference, I would think) -------------------- Legends of Darkness Are Not Always Myths - An Ongoing
experiment in writing/illustration/mythology Photographia Temple of the Goat - a philisophical weblog Diynen'd'ma'purvene - A Wheel of Time resource * Developing a Character: The Aiel * Amadicia Background: Complete with Whitecloak PC and new backgound feat * Moonwarrior - A Wolfbrother feat in the main Feats section |
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