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> The Bard, some class help please?
Kaimus
Posted: Nov 3 2004, 08:15 PM
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Llewin may have mentioned somewhere around here that we're building a story based at the beginning of the Trolloc Wars. Somewhere along the line the words "Sword Bard" came up and we started brainstorming (which is pleasantly challenging while engaged in WWII in Axis and Allies).


Is it plausible to think that in this time period humans may have retained some form of "singing" (as the Ogier do) that could...meld the dynamics of battles? As a rough example, say the Woodsman/Bard Rylen begins a song during battle that allows his party to attack faster or see father, etc?

The mechanics of such a prestige class would be incredibly fun and not entirely difficult to put together, but we're in need of external input. Anyone?


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Entropic_existence
Posted: Nov 3 2004, 08:45 PM
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Only Aiel "had the voice" in the Age of Legends and with the Ogier and Nym did field singing in order to quicken growth of crops, etc. I'm of the opinion that the Sword Bard was just that, a warrior (probably also a blademaster from the anecdotes on the guy) who happened to be a Bard as well. So he fought in the battles then sang the songs for them afterwards smile.gif


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Two Rivers Wolfbrother
Posted: Nov 3 2004, 09:29 PM
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I think if you gave them non-magical powers, and stick to non-magical, you'll be fine. Sorta like a William Wallace-type inspirational speaker as well as an inspiring musical performer, inspiring people along the lines of battle preparedness, courage, and passion.


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Kaimus
Posted: Nov 4 2004, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE
I think if you gave them non-magical powers, and stick to non-magical, you'll be fine. Sorta like a William Wallace-type inspirational speaker as well as an inspiring musical performer, inspiring people along the lines of battle preparedness, courage, and passion.



That's covered (although badly) in the Commander prestige class, no?

I was definately thinking more magical-based. Not to nitpick, but can you point me to the section in the series that says the Aiel were the only ones? I'd like to reread that.



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Llewin
Posted: Nov 4 2004, 12:22 AM
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Regarding it being *only* aiel

I know there is some evidence for this but what of LTT's comment in the prologue of TEOTW ...he asks if ishy will be joining them for 'the singing' or something along those lines, and then says that all are welcome...

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Entropic_existence
Posted: Nov 4 2004, 05:19 AM
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The instance of seed singing we saw was from Rand's experience in the glass columns of Rhuidean when he went through his ancestors lives. One of them is when the War of the Shadow was just ending and a group of Da'shain Aiel, Ogier, and Someshta are Singing for one of the fields. Form that and other clues I;ve always had the feeling that the Talent tended to reside within the Aiel, although given LTT's comments it is quite possible that wasn't so and any Human could be born with the Voice, perhpas it was just more common among the Aiel.

As was said if you stick with non-magical abilities I think you'll be fine, and yes the Commander does have moral bonuses that he can give in battle and such. You could model the Bard on the DnD Bard but just use non-magical type explanations for the ability, having something akin to Seed/Tree Singing but affecting the hearts and minds of people just seems a little out of place to me personally. but it is your game so go ahead and go for it if you wish by all means smile.gif



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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Nov 4 2004, 05:50 AM
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Depends on your take of what is meant. Could be most anything. Quillion did a Sword Bard PrC for the Shadow Made Flesh (Trolloc Wars Campaign). The thing is the term Bard is used in WoT. Thom talks about being a Court Bard. Asmodean calls himself Rand's bard. That's why I'm in the favor of not really "magical." If someone has the Shadow Made Flesh stuff that PrC might be in it. Otherwise hopefully Steve still has it.

Randy, Steve, do either of you have the Sword Bard PrC?


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MagusRogue
Posted: Nov 4 2004, 05:56 AM
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the historical definition of a bard is a storyteller and musician, often for gold, and usually of a court or the like. Scalds are bards for the Norse/Celtic cultures. Gleemen technically are bards, but differ from Court Bards in the fact their art is considered "lower."


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Zarozynia
Posted: Nov 4 2004, 06:35 AM
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As for the ability being anything like Seed Singing of the Daishan Aiel, by the middle of the breaking of the world, the Daishan had forgotten the ability to sing...hence the people that would eventually become the Tuatha'an breaking off to find the song that their grandparents had vaguely remembered.

References to this, of course, found in the Aiel memory section of Shadow Rising.

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Entropic_existence
Posted: Nov 5 2004, 12:08 AM
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Exactly guys, which is why I also disagreed with any magical sense to the class. Bards are Bards, nothing supernatural about them.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Nov 5 2004, 12:37 AM
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IF you do a class for bards, though, they should have the Gleeman Music and Virtusoso powers, as well as a Favors system, to represent the fact that they sing for kings and queens. my own 2 cents here.


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Axel
Posted: Nov 5 2004, 01:25 AM
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Why a special class? I'd say a few levels of Armsman, a few from Commander, and a few from Gleeman. Boom: Swordbard!


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Entropic_existence
Posted: Nov 5 2004, 02:34 AM
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*nod* although I think Sword-Bard could be an interesting Prestige Class, I;ve always been all about having lots of choice in prestige classes to save on tons of multiclassing. And Magus I agree with the abilities/Feats you suggested.


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Llewin
Posted: Nov 5 2004, 03:57 AM
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OK. here's where I'm coming from...

The Voice is only an option and I still think based on LTT's comment in the EOTW prologue that the Voice was NOT limited to aiel...it wouldnt make sense for him to ask if the visitor has The Voice and *then* to say 'all are welcome' to join in the singing....

But i'm not stuck on that.

As to 'why a special class' well when i see someone described in the books as given a title 'Sword bard, and Warder to [such and such aes sedai lady]' (i'm paraphrasing closely here... it strikes me as sounding like a title, there for an official profession or mastery or some such, and if they guy's also a Warder...he should be able to kick the ass too right? smile.gif

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Entropic_existence
Posted: Nov 5 2004, 08:23 PM
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-People without the Voice did go to the singing ceremonies, this was infered in the Rhuidean Memories that Rand had. I think the seed singing were community type events where everyone went and celebrated the bringing into the world of new life to feed the masses,etc.

-It's possible the Voice was not limited only to the Aiel, but we definitly know it occured among the Aiel, and in my opinion was more prevalent among them.

-I like having a special class, we've had some good suggesstions for abilities I just wouldn't make them have anything overtly "supernatural" like the Voice, it just doesn't seem to fit very well IMHO.


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Llewin
Posted: Nov 5 2004, 09:14 PM
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OK. So general consensus then would be something like a mix of the commander prestige the gleeman prestige and the blademaster prestige? lol...that about right? smile.gif
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Entropic_existence
Posted: Nov 5 2004, 09:25 PM
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Yea sounds about right to me smile.gif


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Axel
Posted: Nov 6 2004, 01:47 AM
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Screw the blademaster bit, just Commander and Gleeman. He'll more than likely be taking the PrC from Armsman, that's all the heavy combat he needs. Besides why add extra stuff just to dilute the important abilities?


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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Nov 6 2004, 01:51 AM
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I agree with Axel.


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Entropic_existence
Posted: Nov 6 2004, 04:13 AM
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I'd try and throw in some original abilities too, don't just want it to be an amalgam of Gleeman and Commander straight out.


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