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> New Channeling System, Inspired by Star Wars Force System
Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jun 24 2004, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE (Aleshandre @ Jun 24 2004, 08:48 PM)
I think that it is fairly well set down in a way that can be approved by the most people. I would even say that it is about ready for a solid publishing run.

I do to, Aleshandre. After a make a revision tonight, I'll post it. I would like you to write up a slight a paragraph or so for how the optional 7th Stat rule would work in this system. Once I get it all together in a finalized .rtf, I'll either submit it to Call of the Horn, or I'll send it to you first to put into a .pdf, if you have the time.

Don't worry, I'll leave my revision from tonight up just long enough for a couple of people to look over it and see if there are any problems. Particularly the Linking section that I will add. Look for the finalized version sometime early next week.


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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jun 25 2004, 04:55 AM
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Updated the original post. New version contains:

Linking Rules
Bonus for Male Channelers
Two New Feats
Conversion of Concentration check DCs
Additional note in the Weave section on how to calculate Save DCs (they will be the same as they are now)
An added sentence in the Talent section saying that Skill Emphasis cannot be applied to a Talent Skill. The Talent Skills are just used for too many things and would be so much better to get a +3 on than the average skill. But I did a Feat to give an equal bonus to a single Weave.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 25 2004, 07:31 AM
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i still say 15 + (2 x casting level) is perfectly acceptable, and in line with the books. Pinnacle Entertainment (the guys making deadlands and weird wars) uses this number whenever they make any spellcasting class using checks (they also make the subdual damage 3 x casting level). heck, under your rules, balefire at it's bare minimum (9th level) is a DC of 28 and costs 18 points of subdual damage. that means a channeler with max ranks in balefire and a 16 in Intelligence only needs to be 12th level to cast the weave with a 50/50 chance to fail. That's a bit much, especially for something as powerful as balefire. But that's me. *grins*

As for casting levels, what about how long a Tied-Off Weave lasts? As of right now, it lasts for 4 x the casting level of the weave. There's too many things in the book that are dependent on the casting level for you to remove them.

One last thought, you thought about including metamagics, and how they affect things? Since metamagics raise the casting level by the number indicated, i'd say in your rules that metamagics increase the DC and Cost by 2 per slot level increase. same thing, just different way to look at it. Reason why i say use metamagics is two reasons:
1) it gives higher-level casters something to do with weaves that become too simple. more options make lower-level weaves more appealing.
2) it represents complex weavings of simple weaves in the book; aka, nynaeve's healing (empowered and probably maximized as well).
besides, i've always liked metamagics. :-)


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Zinuk
Posted: Jun 25 2004, 09:33 AM
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QUOTE (MagusRogue @ Jun 25 2004, 07:31 AM)
As for casting levels, what about how long a Tied-Off Weave lasts? As of right now, it lasts for 4 x the casting level of the weave.

In fact, the channeler has complete control of the length of a tied off weave. That's what RJ says in his Questions of the Week at www.tor.com/jordan/questions.html.

For easy reference, here is what he says:

QUOTE
The length of time the knot lasts is the choice of whoever makes the knot. It is not strength dependent. And the knot would continue in existence if the channeler died, at least if the channeler had not set it to unravel in a certain time. Remember, tying off a weave is a way to keep the weave in existence without having to actually channel to maintain it, so once it is tied off, there is really no need for the channeler to continue living for the weave to be maintained.



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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jun 25 2004, 01:54 PM
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Zinuk is right. The Channeler can decide how long a tied off weave last.

If there are any places that I haven't changed Casting Level to Weave DC, simple follow this formula.

Replace Casting level with 1/2 Weave DC - 5. And there you go.

Magus, I'm not sure if you realize it but under the current system a Level 12 channeler can cast Balefire. He need only Overchannel and use a 6th level weave slot. Concentration check of 30 is only slightly higher than the 28 to channel Balefire. And he can have taken Skill Emphasis in Concentration, and he is more likely to be maxed out in Concentration that Balefire, unless he just wants to be an expert at Balefire. You are not convencing me that this is broken. But that is just me.

Actually I had thought of including Metamagics and I think that could fit in here very nicely for those that use them. To convert them it would simply be a matter of adding a +2 to the DC and Weave Cost for every Casting Level that it is normally adjusted.

I think that I've done a good job of elimating the Casting Level thus far. You will notice that I've removed the words Cast and Casting and Caster from my vocabulary while doing this New System. The only time I've used those words is when refering to the Old System and how to convert things to the New.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 25 2004, 06:01 PM
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how does that Saving Throw work then? say, a (previously) 3rd level harden air now is a DC 16 (or 23, depending on which dc you wanna use. i still honeslty think it should be higher, and won't bug. not even for skittles. cool.gif you don't want to make channeling too easy. besides, it wouldn't even be overchanneling for a 12th level channeler in your system to weave Balefire. it's too low a dc). So that means it has a Save DC of... 13 (to do it right in a 15 +, you'll have ot subtract 10)? hrm...


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MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 25 2004, 06:03 PM
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i think the reason why they put a cap on Tie-Off Weave i because otherwise you can have a 1st level inexperienced channeler tie off a weave that lasts until the next two Ages... I don't think even RJ intended for them to last that long.

Oh and one last question: how are you handling Multiweave?


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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jun 25 2004, 09:11 PM
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Magus I'm not sure that I understand your question. You are asking about the Save DC I think. Harden Air with a DC of 16 (level 3 casting level) would have a Save equal to 5 + 16/2 + Int Mod (Int is used because it is Elementalism) = 13 + Int mod. That is exactly what the save would be in the Spell Slot based system.

Multiweaving requires a Concentration check of 15. That stil holds true. It is uneffected by this system. While holding a weave, the channeler must make a Concentration check DC 15. She then must make the Weave Check for whatever weave she is trying to channel. Pretty much just like it used to be.

As far as a level one character Tieing of a Weave for 2 Ages, well, sometime the GM can just intervene and have it unravel for some wild reason, but there is also the possiblity of another channeler Unlacing a Weave, Concentration check DC 20 + 1/2 Weave DC.

I just think that some Tied of Weaves should stick around forever (or effectively forever). Keeping is a good example. I like using it in my campaigns as a means of some ancient AoL text being preserved so that the heroes can gleen some knowledge from it.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that a 12th level channeler in my system doesn't have to overchannel. To my knowledge, Jordan never uses the term "overchannel." A 12th level channeler in the spell slot system has to overchannel by making a DC 30 Concentration check to do Balefire. A 12th level channeler in my system has to make a DC 28 Balefire Talent Skill check. So there is a difference of 2 on the DC. In the spell based system you can almost guarantee that the channeler will be maxed out in Concentration. In my system, it is not as likely that he will be maxed out in Balefire Talent Skill. If he does it is at the sacrifice of skill in other Talents that have more Weaves or other important channeler skills like Weavesight, Concentration and Composure.

Are you sure you won't budge?

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MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 26 2004, 05:02 AM
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thing is in your system, she can cast balefire over and over. by 10th level, she should have enough hp to cast the spell repeatedly, and even moreso if she easily surpases the Talent check and reduces the cost. *chuckles* multiple balefires can be scary... even moraine had trouble casting balefire, and what level do you think she was? :-)

What i was asking bout multiweave is you still make it so you can only hold an additional number of weaves equal to the times you take the feat? bit off compared to the books, where to even get the Shawl you have to channel at least 6 or more weaves at a time, sometimes a lot more.

skittles........ *must... resist.... drool... no.... must... resist!*

This post has been edited by MagusRogue on Jun 26 2004, 05:03 AM


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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jun 26 2004, 05:45 AM
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The question isn't what level she was, but how practiced/proficient was she with Balefire. Rand throws it out like candy. He loves that stuff.

Multiple Balefires scary? Yes. But Multiple Clowns. That is even scarier.

There is the matter that for most channeler Traditions it is known to be dangerous to channel Balefire to much. Aes Sedai would incure the wrath of the Tower and if they did not correct their ways, they may end up stilled. Rand or Taim would probably even come down on a Asha'man using it too much. Rand would be suspicions of any Asha'man that even knew how to Balefire. Balefire is dangerous. But most Traditions protect against it.

You do make a good point about the Multiweave. I suppose I could do something like every this:

2nd weave = Conc DC 10
3rd weave = Conc DC 15
4th weave = Conc DC 20
5th weave = Conc DC 25
6th weave = Conc DC 30

Etc. The maximum number of weaves you can hold at once is equal to 1/2 your character level plus your Int mod.

How does that sound?

On a side note, I've got a mistake in the .rtf. The Power Channel right now is listed with a 1-20 BAB. This is from copy/pasting and forgetting to change. It should be 1-10. I cannot change it right now because I'm not at my house, but I will correct it A.S.A.P.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 26 2004, 04:59 PM
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*snickers* i conceed then.... still don't mind keeping casting level for ease of math (aka you don't have to have five different formulas, a problem that was hopefully solved when DnD went from 2e to 3e), but i like it. might impliment it soon as well. definately going to do the same in the d20 modern conversion i'm working on. still raising the dc though. *sweet grin*

and what, base of 10, +5 per additional weave after the second, for multiweaving? not bad. just means every round you're going to be making concentration checks, correct?

Oh and for metamagics, you'll need to note that they're handled like a sorcerer. IE, full-round action for most weaves, or an additional time unit for longer weaves (like Healing). Also need to impliment a metamagic similar to Twin Spell, where you can cast more than one weave at a time, just that it jumps the costs up like a *****. I've seen instances in the book where more than one weave was cast at the same time, not weave after weave after held weave. ya know?

This post has been edited by MagusRogue on Jun 26 2004, 05:02 PM


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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jun 27 2004, 05:02 AM
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QUOTE (MagusRogue @ Jun 26 2004, 02:59 PM)
might impliment it soon as well. definately going to do the same in the d20 modern conversion i'm working on. still raising the dc though. *sweet grin*

Yeah 10 base +5 per additional weave. Seemed good enough for me.

There is a feat in the UtDB called Simultaneous Weaving that works pretty good for channeling multiple weaves at the same time. I've used it in my campaigns. Even though I'm not thoroughly convinced that it should be a separate Feat from Multiweave, you know what I'm sayin'.

Good, I'm glad that I could at the very least give you a basis to start from. You shouldn't have to mess with things too much.

I've tried to avoid giving people too many formulas even though I had to figure them out and use them. I tried to recreate most of the important tables and have things worked out for them. But I still included the formulas in case there was something that they needed it for.



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Sharn Penndroen
Posted: Jun 27 2004, 06:42 AM
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Okay, I'm done for now with this. I've got the finalized version in .pdf on my site and I'll be submiting it to the Call of the Horn guys as well.

Final version on my site.

Enjoy.


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MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 27 2004, 07:30 AM
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nice. glad it finally came out as well as it did.


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Aleshandre
Posted: Jun 27 2004, 02:34 PM
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That's what we get when a bunch of WoT/gamer fanboys (and fangirls) work together to make things the way they should be. Now lets work on the Threads of the Pattern!


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MagusRogue
Posted: Jun 28 2004, 02:07 AM
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ROGL


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Entropic_existence
Posted: Jun 28 2004, 04:20 AM
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Awesome I got a special assistance thank you! smile.gif


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