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Author Topic: Why a spell-based magic system?
LordDaemon
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posted September 12, 2002 09:51 AM      Profile for LordDaemon   Email LordDaemon    Edit/Delete Post
I have partly read the WoT game now, and I'm completely baffled by the choice for a spell-based magic system. Does anyone know why the designers chose this? It seems to me that a free-form magic system is the only thing which could capture the feeling of magic in the books. The One Power is so essentially non-spell-based that I don't understand the choice for this mechanic.

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The Great Gray Skwid
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posted September 12, 2002 10:41 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by LordDaemon:
The One Power is so essentially non-spell-based that I don't understand the choice for this mechanic.

What gives you this impression? There are specific weaves to do specific things...you can't just want to do something and force the Power to your will, unless that something is very simple.

Rand is an exception to how channelers learn in almost every regard, as are many of the other channelers we get POVs from (Nyn, frex). You have to be *taught* how to do things. If you're figuring them out on your own, then you're not likely to get very much high powered and complicated stuff. This is all well reflected by the weave system, IMNSHO. Rand, of course, has impinging past-life memories that helped him do things, even before he had instruction from Joar Addam.

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LordDaemon
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posted September 12, 2002 10:47 AM      Profile for LordDaemon   Email LordDaemon    Edit/Delete Post
Magical effects are created by weaving together strands of magic. Obviously, this allows for a limiteless amount of weaves to be created - in principle, any effect which is not too strong could be created. How does the spell-based thing come into this? Anyone who can channel a weave with complexity A, could try to channel any other weave with that complexity - exactly as most free form spell-systems would allow you to.

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Free RPGs? Sure! What about the brilliantly original classic The Pool? Or the beta version of my own Eternal Worlds.

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dscrank
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posted September 12, 2002 11:13 AM      Profile for dscrank      Edit/Delete Post
I was experimenting with creating a free form system, based partly on the rune magic system in the computer game "The Four Crystals of Trazere." How it worked in that game was that the adventurers discovered runes one by one, and once they had the correct runes, they could string them together to create their own spells. So if they had the runes for Projectile, Area Effect, Harm, and Heal, they could string together Projectile, Area Affect, and Harm to get a Fireball, or Area Affect and Heal, to heal everyone in the vicinity.

The idea I was playing with allowed you to string together components. Each component had a complexity and a vitality cost (yes, I needed a WP/VP system for this). The complexity determined how long it took to put together the "spell" and the DC whenever you had to make a concentration check, while the vitality was how much it cost to actually activate the "spell." So with the same components you could string together a fireball, a flame aura, a flame arrow, etc. You could place some restrictions on which components could be used together (no area effect with instant death, for example), or just make it prohibitively expensive to put together. Since the GM still decided which components the players learned, he had more control than with a free-form system, but it still gave the players a lot of flexibility.

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Melriken
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posted September 12, 2002 11:21 AM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
you weave together the threads of the one power to create effects, but most patterns dont hold, they fall appart, only specific patterns actually snap together and create a real weave, and it is these weaves that are listed in the books. Not all of these are listed, just the ones we have seen used, you could experamint and create a new weave... just like you can research and create a new spell in DnD.

there are references in the books of weaves snaping together as you add the last thread, and when you take a thread out, the whole structure starts to unravel, because it isnt stable without being complete... atleast that is my impression, your view may be different.

as for the best magic system, I would have gone with a system like the starwars force system... but then that is just me

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The prior post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.

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Eosin_the_Red
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posted September 12, 2002 12:13 PM      Profile for Eosin_the_Red   Email Eosin_the_Red    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Magical effects are created by weaving together strands of magic. Obviously, this allows for a limiteless amount of weaves to be created - in principle, any effect which is not too strong could be created. How does the spell-based thing come into this? Anyone who can channel a weave with complexity A, could try to channel any other weave with that complexity - exactly as most free form spell-systems would allow you to.

While intuitive to us, this is not the way Wheel of Time works. We have hundreds of example of how characters cannot do something, even though they are capable of much greater feats and complexity with the one power.

It is not based simply on the elemental aspects - some people obviously have talents in different areas (Egwenes Earth Delving). I will bet that Nyn can create a more powerful healing weave than any channeler alive, yet she could not do the same with riven earth. Why? Her advanced healing weaves require all threads - including fire. We know that she is not the most powerful channeler alive. People in the WoT have talents that often transcend the elemental aspect of it.

The Aes Sedai and others are taught by rote what they can and cannot do. Very, very few can break out of that pattern. In fact Nyn & Damer have shown that the Forsaken have exactly the same limitations. IF it cant be done, it can't be done, until someone who does not know it can't be done does it.

Personally, I think Hero system works well with a MPP for standard Aes Sedai and a VPP for Rand and a few of the rule breakers. However, the system we have does the job it is supposd to do and that is emulate the books.

Ars Magica and Mage would probably work. I have heard people talk about it around here. Mage seems like an impossible game to me (I have only played in3 sessions thought). My poor GM had to spend Will everytime I got the chance to cut loose. I fail to see how the free form would capture the spirit of the schools & talents that dominate the books.

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LordDaemon
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posted September 12, 2002 01:10 PM      Profile for LordDaemon   Email LordDaemon    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Eosin_the_Red:
I fail to see how the free form would capture the spirit of the schools & talents that dominate the books.

As a matter of a fact, I think that would be extremely easy. You've got 5 skills: Earth, Fire, Air, Water, Spirit - much easier than thinking up schools a la D&D. Now, everyone has a certain score in these 5 powers - whether this is a 0-5 or a 0-20 scale, or anything else, doesn't really matter.

Next, make a short overview about which kind of effects use which powers.

Add a fatigue-system or a spell-point system, and you're ready to go. The player says: 'I want to cast a spell which does A', the GM tells him what happens and how much fatigue it costs him.

To me, this would be far more akin to the books than a spell-based system. And I'm not alone. I told a few friends of mine "the WoT RPG uses a spell-based magic system", and their mouths dropped open.

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Xythlord
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posted September 12, 2002 02:32 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
LD, I understand that you can see the same free form system as Mage to be more flexible, but the problem I see with that is Mage is based off a skill point system, as you gain experience you can build skills with that experiance. The higher the skill, the more experience it costs. This is essentially D20, which is set up to build off a level based system. Furthermore, using your example for a basis, how would that system replicate exceptional ability within a certian aspect of the system i.e. -talents. Furthermore, you use fatigue or spell points, What difference is that from using the current system, or if you want even more flexibility using Ishameals system (all the levels for a pool to draw from)

Also, according to the novels, the channelers cannot do anything that they can imagine within their abilities, in fact unless shown most cannot come up with anything new. To further use Eosin's example. Nyneave uses all five of the affinities in her healing weaves, while she has little ability in Earthsinging (at least none shown so far). We know that some of the healing weaves she uses is pretty high in power, so by using your system she would be able to cast just about anything (from all five elements).

Also how would you explain "Lost Talents" such as making ter'angreal and Traveling.

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Mantyluoto
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posted September 12, 2002 02:41 PM      Profile for Mantyluoto   Email Mantyluoto    Edit/Delete Post
is there a set of rules for creating new weaves? just in case my players (all 2 of them) decide to ask. its been a very long day and i cant find any.

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Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged
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posted September 12, 2002 02:55 PM      Profile for Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged   Email Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged    Edit/Delete Post
No, I don't think that their is, but given a few days and a few cases of Mountain Dew maybe I can think something up. I remember that the crazy 5th Age DragonLance rpg had an intresting magic system. Maybe it could be adapted...

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Mantyluoto
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posted September 12, 2002 03:06 PM      Profile for Mantyluoto   Email Mantyluoto    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No, I don't think that their is, but given a few days and a few cases of Mountain Dew maybe I can think something up.
i'm not familiar with mountain dew is that what you use for a caffeine fix (hey it could even be alcohol i wouldn't even know it) me i just use Doctor Pepper (Try it you'll love it).

I'm gonna look at 3rd edit to see what the rules are for spell creation and have a think...... [Dubious]

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Freya
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posted September 12, 2002 03:18 PM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mantyluoto:
is there a set of rules for creating new weaves? just in case my players (all 2 of them) decide to ask. its been a very long day and i cant find any.

As far as I know there aren't any rules for weave creation. GM-discretion most likely.

As for the 'free magic' system idea...our group played using the Earthdawn system before d20 came out. We didn't use Earthdawn's magic system, discipline structure, or circle level advancemen... just the idea of having Talents (like skills) that raised at different values depending on how advanced they were.

So, to add a depth level to LordDaemon's idea...we had talents for every sphere (Air, Water, Spirit, etc) broken down into two different talents: Weaving and Force. So someone could have a high Air Weaving total, but be overall weak in Air Force. The talents raised differently depending on the gender of the channeler, Air and Water raising easiest for Women, followed by Earth and Fire, and finally Spirit (also most expensive for men).

Our GM determined a long list of weaves that were flexible (we only had the player's list...no balefire and other powerful stuff). Weaves required a minimum of one thread Weaving test, and had an assoiated Force test to determine the result. Difficult weaves like Traveling required 5 thread weavings of 3 different affinities (1 Air,1 Fire, and 3 Spirit) with Spirit Force determining the resultant Gateway.

It was a cool system. Allowed for powerful, but inexperienced people (high Force, low Weaving). Or, people like the Kin who may not be powerful (low Force), but very deft at weaving (high Weaving).

just my 2 cents, [Big Grin]

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Melriken
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posted September 12, 2002 04:16 PM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
how about something like:
each weave is a skill with wisdom as the key ability
each talent is a feat that gives weaves of that talent as class skills (otherwise they are (cc))
each element is a progression of three feats as below

Minor Elemental Mastery: earth
you are good with weaving earth based weaves
Prerequisites: Channeling ability
Benefit: you get a +1 Mastery bonus to all weaves of the [earth] element
when you cast a weave with [earth] as the only element for that weave, or you have minor elemental mastery in all elements of that weave you gain a +1 synergy bonus to it as well.
Special: a female channeler can not select this feat as a bonus channeler feat from any of her classes.

Elemental Mastery: water
you are good with weaving water based weaves
Prerequisites: Channeling ability, Minor Elemental Mastery: water
Benefit: you get a +2 Mastery bonus to all weaves of the [water] element
when you cast a weave with [water] as the only element for that weave, or you have elemental mastery in all elements of that weave you gain a +2 synergy bonus to it as well.
Special: a male channeler can not select this feat as a bonus channeler feat from any of his classes.

Major Elemental Mastery: spirit
you are good with weaving spirit based weaves
Prerequisites: Channeling ability, Minor Elemental Mastery: spirit, Elemental Mastery: spirit
Benefit: you get a +3 Mastery bonus to all weaves of the [spirit] element
when you cast a weave with [spirit] as the only element for that weave, or you have major elemental mastery in all elements of that weave you gain a +3 synergy bonus to it as well.
Special: a channeler can not select this feat as a bonus channeler feat from any of his or her classes.

if you cast restore the power with all five major masterys, you would get a +3 Mastery bonus from each of the five feats, and a +3 synergy bonus from all five feats, for a total of +6 to the weave (bonuses of the same name don't stack)

weaves would have a DC of 10 + 4 per weave level
ie 0th level weaves are DC 10, 5th level weaves are DC 30

the save DC would be determined the same as in the current game
wilders would get bonus feats at 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18
initiates would get bonus feats at 1, 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20
initiates are HD d6
wilders are HD d8
initiates get 8 skills a level
wilders get 6
and weave do an amount of subdual damage to the user equal to 1 + 2*weave level or 1 damage for a 0th level weave, 3 for a first, 21 for a 10th

angreal, linking, and overchanneling give +4 per point to your weave skills, and prevent 2 points of subdual damage per point bonus

hmm, I think I like this system...

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JosephKell
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posted September 12, 2002 04:39 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
I think a better way would be to do a second round of Affinities:

Extra Affinity II:
You are even better with an Affinity.
Prerequisite: All Five Affinities (I).
Benefit: Pick one of the Five Powers for which you do not already have Affinity II in. Men must take Earth, Fire, and Spirit first. Women must take Air, Spirt, and Water first. If you have all the Affinities II of a weave you get an additional -1 bonus (like the original Affinity benefit).
Special: You may take this feat up to five times, each time it is for a different Affinity.

This is much harder to get a benefit for than the Minor Elemental Masteries. -1 level is a lot already, but possibly giving -5 with the original -1 seems... Munchkined.

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Melriken
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posted September 12, 2002 05:00 PM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell:
I think a better way would be to do a second round of Affinities:

Extra Affinity II:
You are even better with an Affinity.
Prerequisite: All Five Affinities (I).
Benefit: Pick one of the Five Powers for which you do not already have Affinity II in. Men must take Earth, Fire, and Spirit first. Women must take Air, Spirt, and Water first. If you have all the Affinities II of a weave you get an additional -1 bonus (like the original Affinity benefit).
Special: You may take this feat up to five times, each time it is for a different Affinity.

This is much harder to get a benefit for than the Minor Elemental Masteries. -1 level is a lot already, but possibly giving -5 with the original -1 seems... Munchkined.

I am sorry, were you replying to me? if you were, my post was an alternate system, not an addition to the current system... the weaves were skills not spells, and the +1 was to the skill check, not a -1 to the weave level, also note that the bonus has a name and doesnt stack with other bonuses of the same name, for example a second minor elemental mastery feat.

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Eosin_the_Red
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posted September 12, 2002 05:11 PM      Profile for Eosin_the_Red   Email Eosin_the_Red    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
As a matter of a fact, I think that would be extremely easy. You've got 5 skills: Earth, Fire, Air, Water, Spirit - much easier than thinking up schools a la D&D. Now, everyone has a certain score in these 5 powers - whether this is a 0-5 or a 0-20 scale, or anything else, doesn't really matter.

Way to address my post without reading it. You avoid all of the points I brought up. Including that, YES, Mage could work but not as efficently.

A second thing: I am extremely suspicious that you have not read the RPG or you would have known there are no schools.

Read the thing before you slam its faults. My apologies if you have read it and just didn't grok it.

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Tam al'Moff
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posted September 13, 2002 12:13 AM      Profile for Tam al'Moff   Email Tam al'Moff    Edit/Delete Post
When I heard that WOT RPG was coming out I had expected the magic system from Ars Magica or something very similar. It had everything that channeling needed. There were taught spells that you could alter in small ways to suit the situation but with a great deal of time and efort(and danger) you could invent your own.

I was initially dissapointed with the magic system that came with WOT but on further inspection I have been rather impressed with their interpratation. It has its problems but it is simple to use and with the point pool system I think it has the flavour of channeling from the books.

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Tarlin
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posted September 14, 2002 10:54 AM      Profile for Tarlin   Email Tarlin    Edit/Delete Post
I've been running a game pretty regularly in Wheel of Time, and the current system runs just fine and captures the flavor of the books to everyone's satisfaction. Tinkering with it would just make things horribly unbalanced, I think.
Especially in the case of a skill-based magic like Star Wars, which is broken anyway. Once you take a level or two in a force-user level to pick up the proper feat making your "spells" class skills, smart money is on the guy who puts the rest of his levels in Scoundrel, eating up all those 8 skill points per level. This kinda thing would mess things up.

"My 12th level Jedi Guardian is a master of the force."
"Oh yeah, then how come my Consular 1/Scoundrel 11 has more force ability than you can dream of....hehehehhehehehe"

Anyways, it works, and I agree that certain weaves were specific in the book. (Some people with the Traveling talent didn't even know they had it until Rand or Egwene or someone taught them to weave a Gateway).

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Grayswandir_Blade
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posted September 14, 2002 11:02 AM      Profile for Grayswandir_Blade   Email Grayswandir_Blade    Edit/Delete Post
The problem with the extra affinity II that I see is that to get the most out of them, you have to take a lot more feats than are really worth it. For Affinity I, if you don't have it, you go up a level, and if you have all, you go down a level. The thing is, you get an advantage for just having one or more affinities in a multi-affinity weave--the weave level stays the same. For Affinity II that you're proposing, there's no difference between having *no* Affinity II and *some* Affinity II (for some weave that has 2+ affinities). Perhaps that's your point, making it harder to get really, really strong weaves--but I'd sure like to see who's crazy enough to take tons of extra extra feats (all five Affinities, then Affinity II's) in favor of questing off for an angreal or something. [Razz]

Oh, and on the topic of spells--what's wrong with it? [Razz] If you want free-form so bad, don't play with any rules, just go write a story or something. The spell system gives structure to the game that you just can't get through GM arbitration, and is eye-bogglingly fair in balance.

But I agree with the Fifth Age Dragonlance thing. If you're going to go free-form, that's the way to do it...a wonderful system of spell attributes to be manipulated. Time, Range, Duration, Area of Effect, and Effect are covered in detail for the most free-form spellcasting you can get (or, at least, the most free-form I've seen). The overall system is weird, though, so I don't like it as much except for adaptation and porting...I mean, cards? That's why the Amber diceless system didn't work [Razz]

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JosephKell
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posted September 15, 2002 12:48 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
You are exactly right Grey, If people don't want such a solid static system, then don't use d20 as is. d20 is a system for beginners really, it is easy to learn (took me 4 months and my first D&D2 game to learn it, while D&D 3ed took me 10 minutes) and there aren't a whole lot of exceptions in it.

(exceptions like: This always works like this, except when there is this or this...)

And back to the Affinity II's, the only reason to take one is if you want to really be good with a few. But you could still award them temporarily to a Ta'veren character. But like Spirit II is the only one I would take because there are so many spirit only weaves that you sometimes MUST have (like Create Gateway and Shield). Or many the only prerequist for Affinity II is all three of your gender's Affinities (but if I had to choose between Spirit II and Air, I would take Air hands down).

And how could someone think that if Wizards made Wheel of Time that it wouldn't use their new system that they put their other systems to rest for (like Alternity was scrapped because the Skill driven classes were too complex).

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Jkol the Butcher
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posted September 20, 2002 04:15 AM      Profile for Jkol the Butcher   Email Jkol the Butcher    Edit/Delete Post
Perhaps one could look at other spell systems from dnd 3rd to create a better system -
it seems to me that a point based system that the Psions and Psychic warrior use would better emphasise the freedom to choose what weaves are cast - perhaps this then could be combined with the epic spell "seed" rules
There could be a seed or two for each of the five powers. Each Power "seed" would have specific abilites (damage etc) and Talents such as Balefire would allow a channeler would unlock new uses of the seed (ie. One could not use the spirit seed to make a gateway until they had the travel talent)

How the five power "seeds" are combined could then set a learn dc for knowledge weave - and the power of such weaves could then be translated X dc costs x weave points etc.
Angreal etc.. could then reduce the cost in points. As for exactly what the points represent - It seems to me that channelers act as a conduit for the one power - which naturally damages the body, as one grows in power his or her body naturally develops buffers against this damage. Overchannelling then would only occur when A person overwhelmed those buffers 1) They don't have enough points to cast the weave 2) The cost of the weave exceeds the number of points that a channeler is allowed to spend on a given weave (see psion rules for clarification).
As for the issue of channelers not being able to do everything - the beauty of the "seed" system is that all weaves are at GM discretion - those that seem to farfetched or unbalancing, might never pass the expirimentation stage because the weave "would not snap into place"

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Xythlord
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posted September 20, 2002 07:10 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Uh, Jkol you just described the current system in use in the RPG almost exactly.

  • The "seeds" you were talking about are affinities, they don't stop you from channeling a weave only enhance or detract from it.
  • Talents allows you to unlock new weaves. Although additional flexability exists if to cast weaves outside of your talents dependant upon you class.
  • as for a point based system, the current system in use (spell levels) is already very flexible, but.....Ishameal's point based system is also very popular.
  • your discription of angreal is what they do.
  • There is a DC set for learning a new weave (any weave), it uses the Weavesight skill and is dependant upon what Talents and level you are, but you can still learn weaves far above your current level (and cast them, see below).
  • agian you hit overchanneling right on the head. Overchannelling then would only occur when A person overwhelmed those buffers 1) They don't have enough points to cast the weave 2) The cost of the weave exceeds the number of points that a channeler is allowed to spend on a given weave . That is what overchanneling is, to cast a weave at a higher level than you could normally do so, and when you dont have enough strength left normally.
  • and finally for channelers not being able to do everything, well in the novels they can't unless they are taught how to. The current weaves are for the most part very flexible. Arms of Air can do the equivalent of many different spells at a range of abilities. Some of us have come up with a number of weaves on our own, and even have systems in place to create new ones, but each weave is different and does something that others don't.
Sorry to go off like that, but it's becoming a serious pet peeve of mine, how everybody keeps on bashing the current system, especially this thread which starts out as I have partly read the WoT game now, and I'm completely baffled by the choice for a spell-based magic system. Does anyone know why the designers chose this? It seems to me that a free-form magic system is the only thing which could capture the feeling of magic in the books. I have been playing this game for some time now and although it is based of weaves (not spells), it is a great deal more flexible and by many opinions captures the feeling of the novels very well. It irks me that this started by someone who has only partly read the WoT game. I'm not trying to start any "name calling", just advocating a point [Blush] .
man this went on longer than I expected, sorry all.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jkol the Butcher
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posted September 20, 2002 08:42 AM      Profile for Jkol the Butcher   Email Jkol the Butcher    Edit/Delete Post
You misunderstand my meaning when I speak of seeds. I use the term in the intent of demonstrating a system where flexibility of design works and is different from the current system.

Seeds are what one could use to develop new weaves. For example: A base fire seed could be employed to do x damage, doing more damage would make the weave more difficult to manage and channel. Combining Powers (earth, etc...) Produces more pronounced effects (ie. Air and Fire for a fireball).

This does sound like the system that is employed, and the end effect is very similar. The advantage of using seeds is to set the base rules for the effect of say a straight weave of one power
"A weave of fire has x effect, you must make this knowledge check and this weave slot/points what ever to use it, combining it with another thread of the power adds this effect (longer range, more damage etc.) given that you have this knowledge and this weave slot etc..)"

The end result is a variation that simplifies the process of taking the one power and creating weaves that have perhaps a unique effect within the casters ability to do so.

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Xythlord
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posted September 20, 2002 10:04 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Ok I get what the seeds you are referring to are, but I don't think that they correctly capture the feeling of the world. I am very familiar with the Mage system (I ran that for awhile) which sound something like what you are trying to capture,and the System for making Epic spells. I believe that the freeform system is too loose for the Wheel of Time game and was stated very clearly by

quote:
The Great Gray Skwid
There are specific weaves to do specific things...you can't just want to do something and force the Power to your will, unless that something is very simple.

We have repeatedly seen that channelers within the books cannot just cast a weave even though they know its possible, for example the Aes Sedai knew for sometime that Rand could Travel, and some even saw him do it, and they still couldn't come figure it out. Moraine had to go and learn Balefire and many of the weaves the wondergirls learned from Moghy, were then passed on to the Salidar Aes Sedai (Folded Light to name just one). This is where the Talents and Weaves from the RPG come into play. Once a character sees another cast a weave and they are able to do so (have the levels and Talents necessary) they can learn it. Also many of the weaves are very flexible (look at create fire and arms of air).

That being said, I am a proponent of allowing channelers to create their own weaves or recreate weaves thought lost. I use egwene as an example, she spent weeks pondering how to make a doorway into Tel'aran'rhiod. She then asked Rand how he made the gateways, once she asked Moghy, she had all the evidence she needed and was able to make a gateway. This process should not be easy and I for one would love it if you made the "seed" sytem for creating new weaves, as the epic system is used for creating new spells (although toned down some).

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
RocPhoenix
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posted September 20, 2002 10:11 AM      Profile for RocPhoenix   Email RocPhoenix    Edit/Delete Post
Overall, I think the system is easy enough that I can understand it (took me many months to almost get down DnD2e and still am working on Shadowrun!). I tend to quit playing if it gets too complicated. Not very dedicated of me, i guess. Anyway, I figured they would base it on the point or mana system, as well. If you have the only affinity used in the weave, cast at a lower cost. The book also talks about having several affinities (or lack there of ) affecting the strenght of the weave (Verin in PoD trying to use Compulsion and being fine, except that Earth is pretty difficult for her). I dunno. I plan on using the set system, even though it caught me off guard. I am not sure there is a perfect system out there to correspond with the books.
On another thought, as far as creating new weaves, my thought has been that, if you have the feat old blood, you should get bonuses, kinda like Rand, Nyn and Egw. Otherwise, it would be a wavesight check DC of 25 plus the weave level (as per GM choice). Just a thought.

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