Author
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Topic: Can Asha'man
bond? |
masterkorgin
Member Member # 94215
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posted November 10, 2002 10:58 AM
Hello all.
I would first like to thank the people that helped me with the
Inventing weaves theory. Works great thus far and saturday
session was a success. My question however is CAn Asha'man
bond people? I don't recall this happening off the top of my
head and was wondering in game terms if this is
possible?
Thanks in advance.
Master k.
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
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posted November 10, 2002 11:37 AM
Well,
Logain "Bonds with a Kiss" in the books. I don't know if its
the same type of bond as I cant remember whether or not they
describe all the same ideals. But it
happens.
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted November 10, 2002 11:44 AM
Yes, it is
a very similar bond, a little more Compulsion involved than
the Aes Sedai bond and I'm pretty sure they don't Sense
Shadowspawn, share energy, etc.
Characteristics of the
Asha'man bond: - can sense what each other is feeling, in
general - can sense the location of the other - bonded
(Aes Sedai) cannot disobey the bonder (Logain)
Anything
else?
-------------------- "Suravye ninto manshima
taishite."
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Keras
Silverblade Member Member
# 57058
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posted November 10, 2002 11:44 AM
If I recall
correctly, the Asha'man in the books do use a variation of
bonding to keep captured Aes Sedai under
control.
-------------------- Forget the freak;
we're all just nature.
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Moridin00
Member Member # 54124
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posted November 11, 2002 06:45 AM
Aes Sedai
can compel their warders to obey them using their 'normal'
bond.
I'm sure the Ash'aman one is the same.
From:
Cape Town, SA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
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posted November 11, 2002 07:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Keras Silverblade: If
I recall correctly, the Asha'man in the books do use a
variation of bonding to keep captured Aes Sedai under
control.
hmm, if I recall correctly, the Ashaman bonding
weave was 'figured out' by the married Ashaman as a way to
stay 'in contact' with their wives, not as a way to handle Aes
Sedai. After that, it began being used to 'handle' captured
Aes Sedai.
and yeah, both Aes Sedai and Ashaman bonds
allow some measure of compulsion on the bondee, but seems to
be more prevelent in the Ashaman version. Either they just use
it more, or the weave is actually different slightly from the
Aes Sedai version. (personally, I think it's slightly
different. Both weaves were created for different purposes so
them having different outcomes is not
surprising.)
-------------------- felicia AKA
Freya Culadin
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masterkorgin
Member Member # 94215
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posted November 11, 2002 10:21 AM
Can
Asha'man bond MALEs? That is what I really meant.
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
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posted November 11, 2002 10:31 AM
probably
depends mostly on how much the Ashaman likes kissing
males
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
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masterkorgin
Member Member # 94215
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posted November 11, 2002 10:48 AM
LOL. HEHE.
Not so sure about that one. There are two asha'man that want
to bond two others in my group. Although this is a strange
request I was wondering if it's possible
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
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posted November 11, 2002 11:01 AM
Theoreticaly, it is probably possible, but I wouldn't
allow it in my campaign... leaves too much of a mess to clean
up if things go wrong with the guys. ![[Dropjaw]](Wizards_Com Boards Can Asha'man bond (1)_fichiers/dropjaw.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted November 11, 2002 11:03 AM
I don't
know how the Asha'man bond would work -- was a kiss PART of
the bond, or was that just Logain's personal touch?
If
you want to base it off the Aes Sedai weave, Elayne bonded
Birgitte, so I don't see why a man couldn't bond a man.
Granted, you might have to deal with some instinctual
double-takes since there was NEVER any record of M/M bondings,
and I'm sure this wouldn't fit in some people's schemata... be
careful they don't end up labelled as "unnatural," although it
may create a response similar to Ailil Riatin and Shalon's
"pillow-friendship" (WH); not normal, but more of an
embarrassment in certain locales than in
others.
-------------------- "Suravye ninto manshima
taishite."
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Melriken
Member Member # 48882
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posted November 11, 2002 12:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade: I
don't know how the Asha'man bond would work -- was a kiss
PART of the bond, or was that just Logain's personal
touch?
No weave in the WoT world requires a physical action
like kissing, however if you learn the weave with a kiss as
part of it, well then that is how you have to use it (you must
get into the right mindset, and the kiss is part of
that)
as far as I know all the ashaman that know the
bond weave know it with the kiss as part of it. (I do know
that Logain isn't the only
one)
-------------------- The prior post is in no
way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the
author. Read at your own risk.
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masterkorgin
Member Member # 94215
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posted November 11, 2002 01:20 PM
That makes
sense. I can just hear my players now having to kiss the other
male characters LOL. What a riot.
Thank you everyone
who has put input on this thread. I appreciate it.
Yours in the light,
Master K.
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Aagon
Member Member # 113690
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posted November 11, 2002 07:13 PM
Well, I
don't think we can compare the Warder's bond to the Asha'man
kiss. The Warder bond helps both sides and does not force
complete obedience. The kiss on the other hand takes complete
control, the Aes Sedai has no chance to disobey the the
Asha'man. I believe I read that the kiss is pretty specifica
for a channeler of the other gender...not sure though.
From:
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finnmckool
Member Member # 112643
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posted November 11, 2002 07:18 PM
The kiss
was just a part of Logain's touch. To quote him it was how he
"was taught to do it." They didn't know any other way. Not to
say there isn't one. I would guess it's much akin to Aes Sedai
using hand motions to help them weave. Not necessary (Wise
Ones don't do it) but a learned habit.
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Moridin00
Member Member # 54124
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posted November 12, 2002 12:52 AM
Logain said
'That's how I was taught to do it'? Are you sure? Who taught
him?
From:
Cape Town, SA | Registered: Dec 2001
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted November 12, 2002 06:48 AM
There is
also quite a bit of disagreement on whether the strong
Compulsion that is incorporated in Logain's bond on his Aes
Sedai is a part of the regular "Wife Bond" or if it is, in
fact, the "extra bit" that he apologizes for.
The
ability to compel absolute obedience out of your wife doesn't
seem like the most natural of components to a "Honey, I'm OK"
bond, you know?
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
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posted November 12, 2002 07:14 AM
Yes, Logain
did apologize for the kiss saying that was how he 'was taught
to do it.' That implies to me that it was not his own personal
flourish. Besides, considering the Ashaman's bonding weave was
originally to keep tabs on their wives, a kiss to seal it does
make sense.
And yeah, I agree, that complete obedience
does seem out-of-place when originating as the wife
bond.
-------------------- felicia AKA Freya
Culadin
From:
dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002 |
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
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posted November 12, 2002 08:02 AM
...so
logically, the bond is very similar to the warder bond, in
function; i.e. allows compulsion, but does not require its
use... in other words Logain uses the compulsion aspect every
time he gives an order to the Aes Sedai. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Can Asha'man bond (1)_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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Daikatana
Member Member # 96056
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posted November 12, 2002 09:19 AM
I seem to
remember that some of the Ashaman have some kind of bond with
their whifes.
-------------------- "Son, when you
participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or
lose... it's how drunk you get" Homer Simpson
From:
Swe | Registered: Jul 2002 | IP: Logged
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Aagon
Member Member # 113690
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posted November 12, 2002 04:47 PM
But the
Asha'man bond makes no rewards, which is an essential part....
I agre, it is simlar to the Bond Waredr's weave, but it also
involves Compulsion.
From:
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted November 13, 2002 06:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Aagon: But the
Asha'man bond makes no rewards, which is an essential
part.... I agre, it is simlar to the Bond Waredr's weave,
but it also involves Compulsion.
Um...there has to be a consensus in order to
unilaterally state agreement, and on this issue we simply
don't have enough information. We definitely know two
essential things: There is a weave that Asha'man invented
to keep in touch with their wives that is somewhat similar to
the warder bond. Logain used this weave, or a variant of
it, to bond Aes Sedai to him, and that weave (which may have
been a variant to the original, remember) had strong
Compulsion elements.
Things we do not know, but
might speculate upon: Whether the "Wife Bond" has strong
Compulsion. Whether any Asha'man bond grants Warder-like
benefits (sensing shadowspawn, energy sharing,
etc.). Whether any Asha'man bond can be applied to another
man.
...anything else in this category for this issue
that anyone can see?
-------------------- Evan
"Skwid" Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
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Blackdraman
Member Member # 112167
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posted November 18, 2002 09:19 PM
quote:
...anything else in this category for this issue that anyone
can see?
Yes...
Does the bond react differently to a
channeler as aposed to a normal human?
Alanna could not
compel Rand with the bond,
remember?
-------------------- Continuealy
Searching, Blackdraman
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Splendora, TX | Registered: Nov 2002
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
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posted November 19, 2002 03:35 AM
There is no
direct indication in the books about whether there is a
difference, because the other sisters who have bonded Asha'man
haven't discussed it on camera (so to speak). The only thing
that we know for sure is that Rand cannot be commpelled
through the bond. If the Asha'man bond is the same in function
to the Aes Sedai bond, then yes a channeler can be compelled
through it, but we don't have enough information to base that
on. ![[Big Grin]](Wizards_Com Boards Can Asha'man bond (1)_fichiers/biggrin.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
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Moridin00
Member Member # 54124
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posted November 19, 2002 03:36 AM
He must've
made his Will save.
From:
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