Author
|
Topic: Can WoT
replace D&D? |
Gadodel
Regulator Member # 57798
|
posted April 22, 2003 05:38 PM
I am
growing increasingly annoyed with the direction D&D has
gone. I.E. "Revisions" et al. I am thinking about replacing
the Fantasy aspect of my D20 Hybrid Campaign with another
Fantasy source. WoT has lept to mind.
Is it a viable
replacement?
Pros and Cons?
Is it true that I
need just one book to use the setting?
Experience,
Opinions and Thoughts?
Thanks for you
input!!!
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From:
Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002
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Sophiathegreen
Member Member # 136464
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posted April 22, 2003 06:26 PM
I agree
with you that you can use the Wot channeling system to replace
D&D arcane and divin spell system. The D&D is alot
better than the old AD&D 1st edition and 2nd edition. I
believe that the DC of the spell could reflect the level of
the character also. Make than magic could cost gold and time
to make not xp points.
They are reflection than fear
that the GM cannot balance his game. Mayfair DC SuperHero have
the fear that grabget make hero will make iten too powerful
so they criple the gardget make rules too much.
From: El
Pase Texas | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP:
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Chel'adar
Tamero Member Member
# 124003
|
posted April 22, 2003 06:55 PM
Well, I was
a fanatic D&D player as well, but then I found out bout
WoT....it is true that there's only the core book which pretty
much describes the whole setting (with some flaws, but that's
where the WOT community comes in sight, ppl think up prestige
classes, weaves, feats and so on, there's even a free netbook
and a second in progress as we speak). I would recommenf
though to read the wheel of time series to get more feel for
the setting. I can truly recommend this setting. If ur a
D&D player, u prolly know forgotten realms and the braggin
bout there's way to much room for powerplay and that there are
way to much powerful creatures in the world. In WOT, the
setting is just excellent, with definately not too much
powerplay (GM's discretion ofcourse) and one of the best
roleplayin settings in which I have ever played (or
GM-ed)
-------------------- -"Why is Tar Valon
burning???" -"Well...ehm....You don't want to
know."
From:
Netherlands | Registered: Jan 2003 |
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TheFlatline
Member Member # 86236
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posted April 22, 2003 07:02 PM
Hmmm... is
WoT viable to replace a fantasy aspect of hybrid games. The
answer would have to be it depends on what you want out of the
fantasy.
Points about the system.
* I find the
channeling system to be more versitile. Learning a spell gives
you a range of effects that you can use it for, depending on
the slot you spend (higher level slot, more powerful the spell
is, and not just in DC). There are less spells than in D&D
(one of the few things I really miss), but each spell is more
useful. Otherwise, it's sort of like being a
sorcerer.
* Yes, one book is all you need to run the
game pretty much. However, knowing the WoT setting will help
infinatly to give the world it's proper flavor.
* The
setting, contrary to what is at first apparent, is very low
magic. Magical weapons are almost non-exsistant. The only
other magical items are those that assist in casting. Magical
healing doesn't instantly heal damage, but converts it to
subdual, which then heals as normal. Only a small amount of
magical items can be used by non-casters.
* No
ressurect. When you die, that's it.
* Because of the
lack of magical items, characters get a defensive bonus based
on class that will replace armor (or if you're an armsman,
stack with it eventually). Nice to be in an environment for
once where armor isn't as must-have.
* XP is based on
sessions, not on challenges overcome. One short adventure or
session is worth 1000 XP, one medium session or adventure
(your choice) is worth 3000, and a long adventure or session
is 5000 XP. As you can see, this leads to sloooooow character
development. Which is either frustrating or nice depending on
your view.
* There really needs to be another
sourcebook to cover the more recent developments in the WoT
series (perhaps not right now, but in a few books one would be
quite needed), so it can feel limited.
* Two races.
Humans (with a myriad of backgrounds) and Ogier. Ogier aren't
fighters. Limited if you want lots of different
races.
* All classes get more skill points (save for
the wanderer, who gets WAY more class skills) than their
equivalent in D&D. No longer do you feel so
skill-deprived.
* Less class diversity than in D&D,
and WAY less prestige classes. There are 3 fighting classes, 2
casting classes, one rogue class, and one noble
class.
* Reputation system that is very
nice.
Personally, I like the system more than D&D.
The setting is very cool, and I tend to enjoy the more
skill-based interaction than D&D offers. Using your core
D&D books (the core 3) for traps & such will no doubt
be useful, but otherwise, WoT is all you'd need to run the
game.
From:
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skyman
Member Member # 133451
|
posted April 22, 2003 08:23 PM
Hmm... you
come to a Wheel of Time rpg discussion forum for an unbiased
opinion on the game! Seriously though, after I switched to WoT I
never wanteed to go back. The storylines simply have the epic
fantasy feel that is the focus of most fantasy novels, rather
than a "get more gold and treasure" theme, which is what
always happened when I played dnd. I don't like the xp system,
but it's easy to change. The channeling system is, in my mind,
much cooler than dnd magic. The only real drawback is that
since its a pre-made setting, you might need to read the books
to really get a lot out of it (which isn't really a drawback
at all!). Good luck deciding, and you know where my vote
goes.
Edit: Also I think WoT would fit into a hybrid
campaign. There is a thread on this forum about "Wheel of Time
Modern". The channeling does not require mystic rites and
such, and the magic items are subtle. So both could be hidden
in a modern setting.
[ April 22, 2003, 08:34 PM:
Message edited by: skyman
]
-------------------- "Death comes sooner
or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only
fools are willing to pay that price." -Lan
Mandragoran
From:
Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003 |
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Gadodel
Regulator Member # 57798
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posted April 22, 2003 08:54 PM
Thanks for
the input thus far.
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From:
Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002
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Fernandes
Member Member # 50977
|
posted April 22, 2003 09:54 PM
I love the
wheel of time. that being said, i also love forgotten realms,
and i wouldn't want to see it replaced. I don't think it will
happen, and to be honest, i don't think it
should.
-------------------- ~ Andrew David
Fernandes
Member of the High Magic Foundation Member of the D&D Strategy Foundation
Welcome
to the World of Greyhawk!
I am a Sig virus. Please
include me in your sig so that i can continue to
replicate!
From:
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Dioltach
Member Member # 21755
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posted April 22, 2003 11:52 PM
I'm running
a campaign set in Middle Earth. I use the races from D&D,
but most of the rest of the system is straight from the Wheel
of Time. I've scrapped or toned down a number of Weaves, and
I've introduced Corruption instead of Madness, but most of the
other changes have been fairly minor. It works, it matches the
feel of Middle Earth more closely than D&D ever
could.
-------------------- "Crom, I have never
prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not
even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we
fought, and why we died. All that matters is that today, two
stood against many. Valor pleases you, so grant me this one
request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, the HELL
with you!" -- Conan the Barbarian
From:
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Sophiathegreen
Member Member # 136464
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posted April 23, 2003 04:32 AM
You can add
some element from D&D and use then in your WoT system
game. You can add elf you want to I saying they came from than
other world,
From: El
Pase Texas | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP:
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Sharn_Penndroen Member Member
# 82230
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posted April 23, 2003 04:54 AM
From what I
understand, you are frustrated with DnD right now. Basically
you aren't satisfied with it. Your question seems to be,
"Would I be satisfied with WoT?" I believe that you would. I
believe that WoT was a marketing ploy be WotC to recruit more
DnD players to buy all of those wonderful DnD RPG books and
then have to buy a bunch more whenever a new edition came out.
It sort of backfired. I prefer WoT. Yes you have only one book
that you need. You could also get Profecies of the Dragon
which has a little additional info and some adventures, but it
isn't necessary. The rest of the new stuff is supplied by the
fans. There are some very hard working people that keep up
good websites. There is one free netbook out there and another
on the way. Also at any given time you can look here on this
forum and find someone's idea for a new feat or Prestige
class. An individual GM can decide what they want to use from
this plethera or resources that wont' cost them one red
cent.
Once you get past the mindset of "if I dont' have
a magic item, I suck" you realize that you really don't need
it. Most people don't have them. You realize how valuable your
skills are and you come to rely on your own character's
abilities.
Anyway, the only way that you will know for
sure is if you try it out. My advice is go buy the Wheel of
Time Role-playing book and give it a try. You won't be
disappointed. As others have said, it would be advantagous to
read Robert Jordon's series to get the feel for the setting.
But that really isn't too different from DnD. If you are
playing Forgotten Realms then it helps to have read a little
R.A. Salvatore. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Can WoT replace D&D (1)_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- A man who will not
die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying
The
Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last
embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral
Ceremony
From:
Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002
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Gadodel
Regulator Member # 57798
|
posted April 23, 2003 12:39 PM
Yes, Sharn;
I do believe you have described my real sentiments. Indeed, I
am looking for something that will satisfy my interest in the
Fantasy Genre.
I will probably buy the book and read
more about it.
*********
Allow me to be more
pedantic...
My real interest is "High Story". As opposed
to "High Power". Will WoT provide me with a vehicle to get
there as well, if not better; than D&D?
Elements of
a Great Story: 1. Personality Development and
Exposure. 2. Excellent platform/system for Action, Drama
etc. 3. Excellent places as a backdrop. 4. A vibrant
Geopolitical System. 5. A people, place or thing to Quest
for. 6. The capacity to be placed in a Microcosm. A focus
on the here and now, can be accomplished. 7. Something that
draws the DM and Players in, such as a mystery or
secret. 8. Acceptability, Feasibility, Fun: Game
Mechanics. 9. Believability, Reliability, Versatility: The
Genre in which it dwells.
Thanks.
![[Big Grin]](Wizards_Com Boards Can WoT replace D&D (1)_fichiers/biggrin.gif)
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From:
Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002
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skyman
Member Member # 133451
|
posted April 23, 2003 12:56 PM
1.
Personality Development and Exposure. Oh yes. Robert
Jordan's world is filled with unique characters of all types,
and its easy to make an interesting character that fits in
with the world.
2. Excellent platform/system for
Action, Drama etc. Yes. That is probably my favorite thing
about it. The world allows both awesome action, sly intrigue,
and dramatic situations.
3. Excellent places as a
backdrop. My favorite fantasy books (after the Lord of the
Rings). Jordan has developed each place and people
brilliantly, meaning it is easy to bring in interesting
locales without much work.
4. A vibrant Geopolitical
System. The politics between people and nations becomes the
driving factor from books 7 and on.
5. A people, place
or thing to Quest for. Sure thing. There are a lot of
histories and legends that can be easily used as hooks, and
there are some things which just seem designed for adventurers
(the Hunt for the Horn).
6. The capacity to be placed
in a Microcosm. A focus on the here and now, can be
accomplished. Hmm... It depends on how you're running the
game. If it takes place during the time of the later books,
the major events going on might make this hard. Earlier
though, its certainly possible.
7. Something that draws
the DM and Players in, such as a mystery or secret. Lots of
'em. The history of the world is vibrant, and you'll see posts
on WoT forums discussing the truth of rumors, etc. in the
world.
8. Acceptability, Feasibility, Fun: Game
Mechanics. What I like about the system is the smaller
focus on game mechanics than D&D. There are some things
which cause imbalance, but the focus on story makes these less
troublesome. I see less of the mindest: "Why don't I
get a +3 flaming longsword. He has a higher attack bonus than
me now!" And most problems with the mechanics are being fixed
by the rpg community.
9. Believability, Reliability,
Versatility: The Genre in which it dwells. Yup. It's hard
to find inconcistencies, and harder to find undeveloped places
and cultures.
So... if you can't tell by now I REALLY
like WoT! I love the game for most of the things you seem to
be interested in. Good luck on deciding!
[ April
23, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: skyman
]
-------------------- "Death comes sooner
or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only
fools are willing to pay that price." -Lan
Mandragoran
From:
Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003 |
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Gadodel
Regulator Member # 57798
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posted April 23, 2003 01:54 PM
Hmmm...wow.
Thanks for the response.
Well, I have not read the
books yet... Though, I see a huge neon sign telling me to do
so...like right now!
Are the books and the game consistent with
one another?
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From:
Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002
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TheFlatline
Member Member # 86236
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posted April 23, 2003 03:39 PM
Yes, the
books & game are highly consistant. I believe the game was
released either just after or shortly before A Path of Daggers
(book 8) in the series, and Robert Jordan read every word in
the gamebook to make sure that the game was consistant with
the books fully, and that it didn't contradict or give away
anything that was going to happen in later books. The game
really does mesh perfectly with the story.
WoT also has
what I consider unique prestige classes. They aren't so much
about uber-powers, but of philosophy changes (some of the PrCs
are pretty badass though). My favorite has to be wolfbrother.
However, to do the PrC it's true justice, you have to read the
books to see how a wolfbrother feels/thinks when wolves are
around.
According to your list of 9 points, WoT as a
whole fits in perfectly with all but the Microcosm, and as was
said before, that all depends on when you set the game in the
timeline, and how you craft your campaign.
My only
complaint about WoT is really a small one for me. Robert
Jordan spent so much time developing the world, and yet for
slang and curses, the range of sayings & exclamations is
annoyingly small. I'm getting batty reading "blood and ashes!"
over and over, and I don't know how much more of "light help
me" and "by the light" and all that other "light" stuff I can
take. Even three or four other exclamations that were popular
would give it some relief. It's the only thing poking through
the immersion factor that annoys me, but it's a small issue in
the end.
From:
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Sophiathegreen
Member Member # 136464
|
posted April 23, 2003 04:23 PM
Plus the
change are very minor one realy. Have you ever wonder ship can
last 30 or 40 year lifespan while than new car have than very
short life span. Car maker in america want you to buy than new
car very year idearly or every 3 year worst case for them.
They can every easier make than car that can last 30 or 40
year lifespan.
[ April 23, 2003, 04:24 PM:
Message edited by: Sophiathegreen ]
From: El
Pase Texas | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP:
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Gadodel
Regulator Member # 57798
|
posted April 23, 2003 04:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sophiathegreen: Plus
the change are very minor one realy. Have you ever wonder
ship can last 30 or 40 year lifespan while than new car have
than very short life span. Car maker in america want you to
buy than new car very year idearly or every 3 year worst
case for them. They can every easier make than car that can
last 30 or 40 year lifespan.
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From:
Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002
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skyman
Member Member # 133451
|
posted April 23, 2003 04:43 PM
Hmm...
Sophia I think you might need to explain that post to
us.
Anyway most of the game meshes pretty well
with the story. A few of the weaves (for channeling) don't
quite fit, and since the basic mechanics were designed for dnd
they have a few problems. For example, channelers in the WoT
can be very powerful without being smart, wise or charismatic,
but in the game they need high INT, WIS and CHA. So in my
games I always have a seventh ability score for channeling.
But nevertheless, I think they did a great job of reproducing
the books considering the difficulty.
If you get the
book and want to play online, or simply want to check out what
WoT rping can be like, go here, The WoT d20 rpg, a play by post
game.
And if you want to see how obsessive people can
get about the books, go here, for Wheel of Time
Mania.
[ April 23, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message
edited by: skyman
]
-------------------- "Death comes sooner
or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only
fools are willing to pay that price." -Lan
Mandragoran
From:
Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003 |
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
|
posted April 23, 2003 04:49 PM
Hi, just
wanted to chime in here. The RPG is pretty accurate up to book
5 or 6, so reading the RPG may have some spoilers in it for
the novels. While the RPG does do a good job of allowing you
to play in the Wheel of Time (WoT), there are a number of
things that differ enough for purist that they are annoying.
Does that take away from the gaming aspect, no I don't think
so, but there are a lot of room for house rules to make up the
difference.
As for the Robert Jorden (the author)
having read everything, well lets just say that he looked at
it.....but some stuff got through (namely with Prophecies of
the Dragon). You can find a tremendous amount of fan supported
material on the net, to name just a few sites.
Call of the
Horn The Shadow's Waiting Children of
the Dragon
Just to name of
few.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
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Lord Schpungus
Member Member # 111502
|
posted April 23, 2003 05:04 PM
Okay, so
the books have stupid, reckless, ugly badgers of people
slinging the Power around. Yes. But adding a seventh stat for
Power is really gettng away from the core of d20, and Wizards
was not about to make up a whole different system for one
stupid franchise book, so I can see why they based it on Int,
Wis, and Cha. You can do what you want with the system, I'm
just not gung-ho about changing the core tenets of the system
(hp, Six Stats) on a whim. Anyways, back to the point of the
thread, I agree with everyone here that there's a lot more
flavor here than in vanilla D&D. Plus the stuff's a whole
lot cheaper!
From:
The Global Community | Registered: Oct 2002
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Gadodel
Regulator Member # 57798
|
posted April 23, 2003 05:05 PM
Um, an
important question...Price?
How much $$$ will it cost
me?
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From:
Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002
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skyman
Member Member # 133451
|
posted April 23, 2003 05:16 PM
quote:
But
adding a seventh stat for Power is really gettng away from
the core of d20, and Wizards was not about to make up a
whole different system for one stupid franchise book, so I
can see why they based it on Int, Wis, and Cha. You can do
what you want with the system, I'm just not gung-ho about
changing the core tenets of the system (hp, Six Stats) on a
whim
It's not really a whole different system... simply one
more ability score, which, complemented by another stat (INT
for initiates, WIS for wilders) makes up the two channeling
scores for the character, just like in the core rules. And it
wasn't exactly a whim either. I thought about it for a long
time, discussed it with others, and made sure to balance it.
There's nothing magical about d20. It's a great system, but in
certain settings it just doesn't fit. Anyway, I don't want to
turn this into a flame war over nothing.
quote:
How much
$$$ will it cost me?
It retails at $40, which is pretty good considering it
combines a ph, dm guide, and a small monster's
manual.
[ April 23, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message
edited by: skyman
]
-------------------- "Death comes sooner
or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only
fools are willing to pay that price." -Lan
Mandragoran
From:
Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003 |
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WizO_Autumn
Member # 49814
|
posted April 23, 2003 08:43 PM
Just want
to chime in with my thoughts.
The thing I like most
about the WoT game is that the stress is on roleplaying,
rather than fighting. Character development is more important
than how many BBEG's you fight.
Per your requirements,
I have to say that you probably do want to check this game
out.
Also, the book is a great rescource but you need
more. Luckily, as what's been said, the more you need can
mostly be found online. Wotmania.com is amazing for all of the WoT
information you could ever want and is a great rescource for
the game.
Here's another vote to get it ![[Smile]](Wizards_Com Boards Can WoT replace D&D (1)_fichiers/smile.gif)
-------------------- It is a mistake to
think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes. ------------Douglas Adams
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Gadodel
Regulator Member # 57798
|
posted April 24, 2003 01:21 PM
Apart from this file on the Boards, does
WoTC support it well?
Magazines Web
Enhancements etc
???
-------------------- Got
Modern?
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From:
Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
|
posted April 24, 2003 01:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gadodel: Apart from
this file on the Boards, does WoTC support it
well?
Well, there was a WOT d20 special issue of Dragon
magazine last year. There is also one web
enhancement.
That is likely to be it, unless there is a
new license agreement somewhere down the line.
Most
other resource material is fan-based, and there is a whole lot
of it. Sift through it for what works for you, or at least, to
get ideas for things that would work for you. WOT can be a
blast, have fun with it. ![[Smile]](Wizards_Com Boards Can WoT replace D&D (1)_fichiers/smile.gif)
-------------------- felicia AKA Freya
Culadin
From:
dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002 |
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Aldarc
Member Member # 43803
|
posted April 25, 2003 12:06 AM
Would you
be a pal and tell me what issue of Dragon that was? I remember
the issue, but not the
number.
-------------------- "Who knows? Listen. You
may learn something."
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