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Author Topic: Alternate Initiate Class for Male Channellers?
torrential
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posted January 31, 2003 10:20 PM      Profile for torrential      Edit/Delete Post
The WoT RPG book suggests using the initiate class for both Accepted and Asha'man Dedicated.

But I just don't see Asha'man Dedicated having access to training in diplomacy, decipher script, and all knowledge skills as class skills.

Furthermore, in Crossroads of Twilight, an Asha'man specifically mentions Logain's duty of training Asha'man in climbing cliffs and sneaking through forests...sounds to me like climb and hide need to be Dedicated class skills.

And does it really make sense that Asha'man get a bonus to weavesight instead of concentration, given all the forcing they do in their training? It seems to me that they would have something like the Wilder's bonuses for overchannelling instead of a weavesight bonus.

I propose that there needs to be an Asha'man Dedicated base class that makes some dramatic departures from both the Wilder class and the Initiate class as presented in the RPG book. And maybe the class skills of the Asha'man prestige class need reworking, too.

Thoughts? Maybe house-rules classes you're willing to post?

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Heron_Marked_Blade
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posted January 31, 2003 10:54 PM      Profile for Heron_Marked_Blade      Edit/Delete Post
I think you're idea is a good one. Feel free to post anything you've come up with for feedback. Perhaps after I get some sleep I will put up some ideas I've had on the matter.

But first the sleep. [Wink]

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AvaronGansdell
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posted February 01, 2003 07:38 AM      Profile for AvaronGansdell   Email AvaronGansdell    Edit/Delete Post
I have allways though that insted of useing the Initiate/wilder basis to divide how many spells one gets per level it should have been baced on male/female channeler lines.
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Fahkrin
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posted February 01, 2003 09:24 AM      Profile for Fahkrin   Email Fahkrin    Edit/Delete Post
Definitely. How many times was it emphasized that men and women fundamentally differ in the One Power? Its not too difficult to extapolate that idea to alter that idea to weaves/day.

I think that the initiate/wilder classes are pretty balanced as is though. However, Asmodean stated that men are generally more powerful than women. Perhaps a good way to reflect this is to count a male channaler's charisma as +1 for the purpose of extra weaves/day and difficulty in resisting saidin weaves. Also, male initiates would replace the "unlikely" skills with climb and hide.

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torrential
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posted February 01, 2003 10:24 AM      Profile for torrential      Edit/Delete Post
I put the alternate version of the Initiate class that I use for male channelers in a separate post with the rest of my channelling house rules. But, I don't suggest it for general use, because it isn't balanced. Everyone in my group is playing a male channeller, so I opted for making it accurate instead of balanced.

You might be able to salvage the class skill list, and it will give you some ideas about how to make males more powerful channelers than women. Actually, I'll just post some ideas for that here.

Primarily, I don't like the RPG book's method of making male channellers stronger, because a variation in statistics can easily have more effect over your weaves per day than your gender - this means that no one would ever have noticed that men tend to be more powerful channelers than women, much less made such a big deal about it.

Here are some changes that might work:

For purposeses of determining bonus weaves per day, weave save DC, and maximum castible weave level, treat the male channeller as if they are two points higher in their main channeling attribute than they really are.

Or

Men gain an extra affinity at character creation that can come from any of the five powers.

I think those two alterations would even make for better game balance. A level 20 male channeller has to take the Mental Stability feat how many times on average? *Three?* They deserve a bit more palpable than five extra weave slots.

Speaking of mental stability, I also suggested a version of it that I like better in my channeling house rules post...check it out.

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JosephKell
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posted February 01, 2003 12:36 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
Three would get you down to about 10 madness... and that is without overchanneling.

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AvaronGansdell
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posted February 01, 2003 03:54 PM      Profile for AvaronGansdell   Email AvaronGansdell    Edit/Delete Post
Well insted of giveing men bonus slots and stuff why not simply use what we have. make all female channelers use the wilder advancement and all male channelers use the Initite advancement for determining how many weaves they have each day. This dose make female channelers slightily more powerful at low levels but at mid to high levels it shows how male channelers are stronger (more higher level slots) and how female channelers have more finess (more low level slots) Also in the books they talk about how male channelers seem to grow in power in jumps where as female channelers seem to grow more gradualy. which those two charts do kinda represent.
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JosephKell
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posted February 01, 2003 05:16 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
where exactly does it say "While men are stronger with the one power, women are more skilled with it." I can understand that a person could be more skilled with a brush (A brush being a side of the One Power) that doesn't fight them back. Men struggle to remain in control of Saidin, while women work with it.
In addition: Skills are learned with practice. Being able to practice allows one to be more skilled, and men are hunted. If males never went crazy (like in the Age of Legends before the Breaking), I think there would be prescident to maybe say "skilled." As it is, men are only now training with a large enough population to see how things end up.

Can I get a Book and Page Number. And just because one gender says something does make it true. (I can see Aes Sedai claiming that women are more skilled as an attempt to gain some sense of confidence to be able to face men)

[ February 01, 2003, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell ]

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torrential
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posted February 01, 2003 07:56 PM      Profile for torrential      Edit/Delete Post
I like your idea, AvaronGansdell. Makes sense and requires very little work. [Wink]
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AvaronGansdell
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posted February 01, 2003 08:42 PM      Profile for AvaronGansdell   Email AvaronGansdell    Edit/Delete Post
I can't claim a page number but I belive it was in the book of bad art. and they didnt use the term skilled...I belive it was termed "a greater finess with weaveing. or somehtihng like that. Just that whail men where stronger on avarage woman could preform more intrecet weaves on avarage." or something to that effect.
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Daseric
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posted February 01, 2003 10:12 PM      Profile for Daseric   Email Daseric    Edit/Delete Post
Yup. Big Book of Bad Art, page 18, last paragraph. To paraphrase: In general, women outstrip men in the dexterity of weaving.
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JosephKell
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posted February 01, 2003 10:16 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
Was that a statement refering to their ability before the breaking?

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torrential
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posted February 01, 2003 10:25 PM      Profile for torrential      Edit/Delete Post
Why would it change? [Razz]
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JosephKell
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posted February 01, 2003 10:46 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
If the statement is based AFTER the breaking, then it could represent a male's limited time so they can never really learn to use it in a skilled manner. Therefore men will always use it as a broad sword. While women (who possess the time to practice for years or even decades) can learn to use it as a scalpel.

So yes it could change [Razz]

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Daseric
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posted February 02, 2003 12:00 AM      Profile for Daseric   Email Daseric    Edit/Delete Post
The section of the BBoBA I mentioned was referring to differences in channeling from the Age of Legends, so evidently men have always been meat-handed when it comes to weaving. [Big Grin]
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JosephKell
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posted February 02, 2003 12:10 AM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
okay. Meathanded... I thought it was "Hamfisted"

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Tam al'Moff
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posted February 03, 2003 12:41 AM      Profile for Tam al'Moff   Email Tam al'Moff    Edit/Delete Post
I like this idea a lot. It sorts out some of that 'what happens when a wilder goes to the Tower' problem. As far as weaves go nothing changes.

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JosephKell
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posted February 03, 2003 03:13 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
maybe give males an extra affinity and females and extra talent at level one. Males seem to be more elemental (basic, not like the elements) in their usage, and Affinities represent basic control. While Talents represent training in something.

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torrential
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posted February 03, 2003 10:01 PM      Profile for torrential      Edit/Delete Post
Talents are far more useful than Affinities though. Having a new Talent opens up at minimum like five new weaves. Getting a new affinity means that there is a *chance* you might be able to cast the weaves you already know a little easier.

Males really get bitten when it comes to affinity. It seems like everything that does damage requires air...so until you get that fourth affinity, you might as well only have one: fire.

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JosephKell
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posted February 03, 2003 10:10 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
then give two more affinites. And actually Spirit is very useful, it allows a male to use many heal weaves at their normal level, spirit is also used for Create Gateway and Shield.

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-If you cast Meteor Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells...
-If your character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook...
-If you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four charges left...
-If the God of Destiny asks you what will have next...
...you might be a Munchkin.

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