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Author Topic: Can WoT replace D&D?
Gadodel
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posted April 22, 2003 05:38 PM      Profile for Gadodel   Email Gadodel    Edit/Delete Post
I am growing increasingly annoyed with the direction D&D has gone. I.E. "Revisions" et al. I am thinking about replacing the Fantasy aspect of my D20 Hybrid Campaign with another Fantasy source. WoT has lept to mind.

Is it a viable replacement?

Pros and Cons?

Is it true that I need just one book to use the setting?

Experience, Opinions and Thoughts?

Thanks for you input!!!

[Cool]

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From: Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sophiathegreen
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posted April 22, 2003 06:26 PM      Profile for Sophiathegreen   Email Sophiathegreen    Edit/Delete Post
I agree with you that you can use the Wot channeling system to replace D&D arcane and divin spell system.
The D&D is alot better than the old AD&D 1st edition and 2nd edition. I believe that the DC of the spell could reflect the level of the character also. Make than magic could cost gold and time to make not xp points.

They are reflection than fear that the GM cannot balance his game. Mayfair DC SuperHero have the fear
that grabget make hero will make iten too powerful so
they criple the gardget make rules too much.

From: El Pase Texas | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Chel'adar Tamero
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posted April 22, 2003 06:55 PM      Profile for Chel'adar Tamero   Email Chel'adar Tamero    Edit/Delete Post
Well, I was a fanatic D&D player as well, but then I found out bout WoT....it is true that there's only the core book which pretty much describes the whole setting (with some flaws, but that's where the WOT community comes in sight, ppl think up prestige classes, weaves, feats and so on, there's even a free netbook and a second in progress as we speak). I would recommenf though to read the wheel of time series to get more feel for the setting. I can truly recommend this setting. If ur a D&D player, u prolly know forgotten realms and the braggin bout there's way to much room for powerplay and that there are way to much powerful creatures in the world. In WOT, the setting is just excellent, with definately not too much powerplay (GM's discretion ofcourse) and one of the best roleplayin settings in which I have ever played (or GM-ed)

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TheFlatline
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posted April 22, 2003 07:02 PM      Profile for TheFlatline      Edit/Delete Post
Hmmm... is WoT viable to replace a fantasy aspect of hybrid games. The answer would have to be it depends on what you want out of the fantasy.

Points about the system.

* I find the channeling system to be more versitile. Learning a spell gives you a range of effects that you can use it for, depending on the slot you spend (higher level slot, more powerful the spell is, and not just in DC). There are less spells than in D&D (one of the few things I really miss), but each spell is more useful. Otherwise, it's sort of like being a sorcerer.

* Yes, one book is all you need to run the game pretty much. However, knowing the WoT setting will help infinatly to give the world it's proper flavor.

* The setting, contrary to what is at first apparent, is very low magic. Magical weapons are almost non-exsistant. The only other magical items are those that assist in casting. Magical healing doesn't instantly heal damage, but converts it to subdual, which then heals as normal. Only a small amount of magical items can be used by non-casters.

* No ressurect. When you die, that's it.

* Because of the lack of magical items, characters get a defensive bonus based on class that will replace armor (or if you're an armsman, stack with it eventually). Nice to be in an environment for once where armor isn't as must-have.

* XP is based on sessions, not on challenges overcome. One short adventure or session is worth 1000 XP, one medium session or adventure (your choice) is worth 3000, and a long adventure or session is 5000 XP. As you can see, this leads to sloooooow character development. Which is either frustrating or nice depending on your view.

* There really needs to be another sourcebook to cover the more recent developments in the WoT series (perhaps not right now, but in a few books one would be quite needed), so it can feel limited.

* Two races. Humans (with a myriad of backgrounds) and Ogier. Ogier aren't fighters. Limited if you want lots of different races.

* All classes get more skill points (save for the wanderer, who gets WAY more class skills) than their equivalent in D&D. No longer do you feel so skill-deprived.

* Less class diversity than in D&D, and WAY less prestige classes. There are 3 fighting classes, 2 casting classes, one rogue class, and one noble class.

* Reputation system that is very nice.

Personally, I like the system more than D&D. The setting is very cool, and I tend to enjoy the more skill-based interaction than D&D offers. Using your core D&D books (the core 3) for traps & such will no doubt be useful, but otherwise, WoT is all you'd need to run the game.

From: Earth | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
skyman
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posted April 22, 2003 08:23 PM      Profile for skyman      Edit/Delete Post
Hmm... you come to a Wheel of Time rpg discussion forum for an unbiased opinion on the game! [Wink]
Seriously though, after I switched to WoT I never wanteed to go back. The storylines simply have the epic fantasy feel that is the focus of most fantasy novels, rather than a "get more gold and treasure" theme, which is what always happened when I played dnd. I don't like the xp system, but it's easy to change. The channeling system is, in my mind, much cooler than dnd magic. The only real drawback is that since its a pre-made setting, you might need to read the books to really get a lot out of it (which isn't really a drawback at all!). Good luck deciding, and you know where my vote goes.

Edit: Also I think WoT would fit into a hybrid campaign. There is a thread on this forum about "Wheel of Time Modern". The channeling does not require mystic rites and such, and the magic items are subtle. So both could be hidden in a modern setting.

[ April 22, 2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: skyman ]

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From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gadodel
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posted April 22, 2003 08:54 PM      Profile for Gadodel   Email Gadodel    Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the input thus far.

[Cool]

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From: Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fernandes
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posted April 22, 2003 09:54 PM      Profile for Fernandes   Email Fernandes    Edit/Delete Post
I love the wheel of time. that being said, i also love forgotten realms, and i wouldn't want to see it replaced. I don't think it will happen, and to be honest, i don't think it should.

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Dioltach
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posted April 22, 2003 11:52 PM      Profile for Dioltach      Edit/Delete Post
I'm running a campaign set in Middle Earth. I use the races from D&D, but most of the rest of the system is straight from the Wheel of Time. I've scrapped or toned down a number of Weaves, and I've introduced Corruption instead of Madness, but most of the other changes have been fairly minor. It works, it matches the feel of Middle Earth more closely than D&D ever could.

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From: Dioltach's Emporium | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sophiathegreen
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posted April 23, 2003 04:32 AM      Profile for Sophiathegreen   Email Sophiathegreen    Edit/Delete Post
You can add some element from D&D and use then in your WoT system game. You can add elf you want to I saying they came from than other world,
From: El Pase Texas | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sharn_Penndroen
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posted April 23, 2003 04:54 AM      Profile for Sharn_Penndroen   Email Sharn_Penndroen    Edit/Delete Post
From what I understand, you are frustrated with DnD right now. Basically you aren't satisfied with it. Your question seems to be, "Would I be satisfied with WoT?" I believe that you would. I believe that WoT was a marketing ploy be WotC to recruit more DnD players to buy all of those wonderful DnD RPG books and then have to buy a bunch more whenever a new edition came out. It sort of backfired. I prefer WoT. Yes you have only one book that you need. You could also get Profecies of the Dragon which has a little additional info and some adventures, but it isn't necessary. The rest of the new stuff is supplied by the fans. There are some very hard working people that keep up good websites. There is one free netbook out there and another on the way. Also at any given time you can look here on this forum and find someone's idea for a new feat or Prestige class. An individual GM can decide what they want to use from this plethera or resources that wont' cost them one red cent.

Once you get past the mindset of "if I dont' have a magic item, I suck" you realize that you really don't need it. Most people don't have them. You realize how valuable your skills are and you come to rely on your own character's abilities.

Anyway, the only way that you will know for sure is if you try it out. My advice is go buy the Wheel of Time Role-playing book and give it a try. You won't be disappointed. As others have said, it would be advantagous to read Robert Jordon's series to get the feel for the setting. But that really isn't too different from DnD. If you are playing Forgotten Realms then it helps to have read a little R.A. Salvatore. [Wink]

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From: Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gadodel
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posted April 23, 2003 12:39 PM      Profile for Gadodel   Email Gadodel    Edit/Delete Post
Yes, Sharn; I do believe you have described my real sentiments. Indeed, I am looking for something that will satisfy my interest in the Fantasy Genre.

I will probably buy the book and read more about it.

*********

Allow me to be more pedantic... [Big Grin]

My real interest is "High Story". As opposed to "High Power". Will WoT provide me with a vehicle to get there as well, if not better; than D&D?

Elements of a Great Story:
1. Personality Development and Exposure.
2. Excellent platform/system for Action, Drama etc.
3. Excellent places as a backdrop.
4. A vibrant Geopolitical System.
5. A people, place or thing to Quest for.
6. The capacity to be placed in a Microcosm. A focus on the here and now, can be accomplished.
7. Something that draws the DM and Players in, such as a mystery or secret.
8. Acceptability, Feasibility, Fun: Game Mechanics.
9. Believability, Reliability, Versatility: The Genre in which it dwells.

Thanks.

[Big Grin]

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From: Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
skyman
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posted April 23, 2003 12:56 PM      Profile for skyman      Edit/Delete Post
1. Personality Development and Exposure.
Oh yes. Robert Jordan's world is filled with unique characters of all types, and its easy to make an interesting character that fits in with the world.

2. Excellent platform/system for Action, Drama etc.
Yes. That is probably my favorite thing about it. The world allows both awesome action, sly intrigue, and dramatic situations.

3. Excellent places as a backdrop.
My favorite fantasy books (after the Lord of the Rings). Jordan has developed each place and people brilliantly, meaning it is easy to bring in interesting locales without much work.

4. A vibrant Geopolitical System.
The politics between people and nations becomes the driving factor from books 7 and on.

5. A people, place or thing to Quest for.
Sure thing. There are a lot of histories and legends that can be easily used as hooks, and there are some things which just seem designed for adventurers (the Hunt for the Horn).

6. The capacity to be placed in a Microcosm. A focus on the here and now, can be accomplished.
Hmm... It depends on how you're running the game. If it takes place during the time of the later books, the major events going on might make this hard. Earlier though, its certainly possible.

7. Something that draws the DM and Players in, such as a mystery or secret.
Lots of 'em. The history of the world is vibrant, and you'll see posts on WoT forums discussing the truth of rumors, etc. in the world.

8. Acceptability, Feasibility, Fun: Game Mechanics.
What I like about the system is the smaller focus on game mechanics than D&D. There are some things which cause imbalance, but the focus on story makes these less troublesome. I see less of the mindest: "Why don't I get a +3 flaming longsword. He has a higher attack bonus than me now!" And most problems with the mechanics are being fixed by the rpg community.

9. Believability, Reliability, Versatility: The Genre in which it dwells.
Yup. It's hard to find inconcistencies, and harder to find undeveloped places and cultures.

So... if you can't tell by now I REALLY like WoT! [Wink] I love the game for most of the things you seem to be interested in. Good luck on deciding!

[ April 23, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: skyman ]

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"Death comes sooner or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price."
-Lan Mandragoran

From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gadodel
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posted April 23, 2003 01:54 PM      Profile for Gadodel   Email Gadodel    Edit/Delete Post
Hmmm...wow. Thanks for the response.

Well, I have not read the books yet... [Blush] Though, I see a huge neon sign telling me to do so...like right now! [Wink]

Are the books and the game consistent with one another?

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From: Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheFlatline
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posted April 23, 2003 03:39 PM      Profile for TheFlatline      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, the books & game are highly consistant. I believe the game was released either just after or shortly before A Path of Daggers (book 8) in the series, and Robert Jordan read every word in the gamebook to make sure that the game was consistant with the books fully, and that it didn't contradict or give away anything that was going to happen in later books. The game really does mesh perfectly with the story.

WoT also has what I consider unique prestige classes. They aren't so much about uber-powers, but of philosophy changes (some of the PrCs are pretty badass though). My favorite has to be wolfbrother. However, to do the PrC it's true justice, you have to read the books to see how a wolfbrother feels/thinks when wolves are around.

According to your list of 9 points, WoT as a whole fits in perfectly with all but the Microcosm, and as was said before, that all depends on when you set the game in the timeline, and how you craft your campaign.

My only complaint about WoT is really a small one for me. Robert Jordan spent so much time developing the world, and yet for slang and curses, the range of sayings & exclamations is annoyingly small. I'm getting batty reading "blood and ashes!" over and over, and I don't know how much more of "light help me" and "by the light" and all that other "light" stuff I can take. Even three or four other exclamations that were popular would give it some relief. It's the only thing poking through the immersion factor that annoys me, but it's a small issue in the end.

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Sophiathegreen
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posted April 23, 2003 04:23 PM      Profile for Sophiathegreen   Email Sophiathegreen    Edit/Delete Post
Plus the change are very minor one realy. Have you ever wonder ship can last 30 or 40 year lifespan while than new car have than very short life span. Car maker in america want you to buy than new car very year idearly or every 3 year worst case for them. They can every easier make than car that can last 30 or 40 year lifespan.

[ April 23, 2003, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Sophiathegreen ]

From: El Pase Texas | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gadodel
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posted April 23, 2003 04:32 PM      Profile for Gadodel   Email Gadodel    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sophiathegreen:
Plus the change are very minor one realy. Have you ever wonder ship can last 30 or 40 year lifespan while than new car have than very short life span. Car maker in america want you to buy than new car very year idearly or every 3 year worst case for them. They can every easier make than car that can last 30 or 40 year lifespan.

[Dubious]
[Confused]
[Black Mana]

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From: Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
skyman
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posted April 23, 2003 04:43 PM      Profile for skyman      Edit/Delete Post
Hmm... Sophia I think you might need to explain that post to us.

Anyway most of the game meshes pretty well with the story. A few of the weaves (for channeling) don't quite fit, and since the basic mechanics were designed for dnd they have a few problems. For example, channelers in the WoT can be very powerful without being smart, wise or charismatic, but in the game they need high INT, WIS and CHA. So in my games I always have a seventh ability score for channeling. But nevertheless, I think they did a great job of reproducing the books considering the difficulty.

If you get the book and want to play online, or simply want to check out what WoT rping can be like, go here, The WoT d20 rpg, a play by post game.

And if you want to see how obsessive people can get about the books, go here, for Wheel of Time Mania.

[ April 23, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: skyman ]

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"Death comes sooner or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price."
-Lan Mandragoran

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Xythlord
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posted April 23, 2003 04:49 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Hi, just wanted to chime in here. The RPG is pretty accurate up to book 5 or 6, so reading the RPG may have some spoilers in it for the novels. While the RPG does do a good job of allowing you to play in the Wheel of Time (WoT), there are a number of things that differ enough for purist that they are annoying. Does that take away from the gaming aspect, no I don't think so, but there are a lot of room for house rules to make up the difference.

As for the Robert Jorden (the author) having read everything, well lets just say that he looked at it.....but some stuff got through (namely with Prophecies of the Dragon). You can find a tremendous amount of fan supported material on the net, to name just a few sites.

Call of the Horn
The Shadow's Waiting
Children of the Dragon

Just to name of few.

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Lord Schpungus
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posted April 23, 2003 05:04 PM      Profile for Lord Schpungus      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, so the books have stupid, reckless, ugly badgers of people slinging the Power around. Yes. But adding a seventh stat for Power is really gettng away from the core of d20, and Wizards was not about to make up a whole different system for one stupid franchise book, so I can see why they based it on Int, Wis, and Cha. You can do what you want with the system, I'm just not gung-ho about changing the core tenets of the system (hp, Six Stats) on a whim. Anyways, back to the point of the thread, I agree with everyone here that there's a lot more flavor here than in vanilla D&D. Plus the stuff's a whole lot cheaper!
From: The Global Community | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gadodel
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posted April 23, 2003 05:05 PM      Profile for Gadodel   Email Gadodel    Edit/Delete Post
Um, an important question...Price?

How much $$$ will it cost me?

[Big Grin]

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From: Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
skyman
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posted April 23, 2003 05:16 PM      Profile for skyman      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But adding a seventh stat for Power is really gettng away from the core of d20, and Wizards was not about to make up a whole different system for one stupid franchise book, so I can see why they based it on Int, Wis, and Cha. You can do what you want with the system, I'm just not gung-ho about changing the core tenets of the system (hp, Six Stats) on a whim
It's not really a whole different system... simply one more ability score, which, complemented by another stat (INT for initiates, WIS for wilders) makes up the two channeling scores for the character, just like in the core rules. And it wasn't exactly a whim either. I thought about it for a long time, discussed it with others, and made sure to balance it. There's nothing magical about d20. It's a great system, but in certain settings it just doesn't fit. Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a flame war over nothing. [Devilish]

quote:
How much $$$ will it cost me?
It retails at $40, which is pretty good considering it combines a ph, dm guide, and a small monster's manual.

[ April 23, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: skyman ]

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"Death comes sooner or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price."
-Lan Mandragoran

From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
WizO_Autumn

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posted April 23, 2003 08:43 PM      Profile for WizO_Autumn   Email WizO_Autumn    Edit/Delete Post
Just want to chime in with my thoughts.

The thing I like most about the WoT game is that the stress is on roleplaying, rather than fighting. Character development is more important than how many BBEG's you fight.

Per your requirements, I have to say that you probably do want to check this game out.

Also, the book is a great rescource but you need more. Luckily, as what's been said, the more you need can mostly be found online. Wotmania.com is amazing for all of the WoT information you could ever want and is a great rescource for the game.

Here's another vote to get it [Smile]

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Gadodel
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posted April 24, 2003 01:21 PM      Profile for Gadodel   Email Gadodel    Edit/Delete Post
[Cool]

Apart from this file on the Boards, does WoTC support it well?

Magazines
Web Enhancements
etc

???

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From: Lincoln, Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Freya
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posted April 24, 2003 01:37 PM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gadodel:
Apart from this file on the Boards, does WoTC support it well?

Well, there was a WOT d20 special issue of Dragon magazine last year. There is also one web enhancement.

That is likely to be it, unless there is a new license agreement somewhere down the line.

Most other resource material is fan-based, and there is a whole lot of it. Sift through it for what works for you, or at least, to get ideas for things that would work for you. WOT can be a blast, have fun with it. [Smile]

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From: dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Aldarc
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posted April 25, 2003 12:06 AM      Profile for Aldarc      Edit/Delete Post
Would you be a pal and tell me what issue of Dragon that was? I remember the issue, but not the number.

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