Author
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Topic: Asha'man
modification (thoughts?) |
Mao
Member Member # 3827
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posted October 29, 2002 02:03 PM
I've been
thinking about a modified Asha'man that specialized in
combat-based magic like fiery sword and such, possibly things
similar to 'haste' or 'buffing' spells from D&D.
I
was kind of bothered by Asha'man not having 3/4 BAB to begin
with, as they were meant to have sword training (simply being
proficient is kind of silly, since they get NOTHING to do with
swords in the prestige class).
The main things I'd do
are tweak some of the asha'man abilities - get rid of
resolve/improved resolve, iron will and improved combat
casting/improved offensive control (leaving the basic
varieties only).
Raise BAB to 3/4, allow defense bonus
to stack with Armor Compatibility (assuming you have 3 levels
of armsman), and possibly give armor compatibility at 5th or
so instead of great fortitude. Possibly throw in extra talent:
Travelling in there somewhere.
Maybe cut their
'casting level progression' to 1/2/4/5/7/8/10 (similar to
various D&D mage prestiges that don't always get caster
level bumps).
Anyone have anything like this? Possibly
comparing to the D&D spellsword, or some such? Or simply a
more sword-worthy Asha'man variant?
-Mao
From:
Phoenix, Az, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Melriken
Member Member # 48882
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posted October 29, 2002 05:13 PM
well, I
think that the Asha'man PrC doenst have the higher BAB because
the Asha'man in the books avoid learning more about swords
than they have to. Rand requires that they learn to use them,
but Taim shows what he thinks of it, and most of them don't
*really* learn to use them...
I think you could
definatly make a new PrC that has connections to the black
tower, and learns better to use the Sword while channeling at
the same time, just call it something new rather than a
revision of the Asha'man class.
an idea is: Servent of
the Dragon (in the old tounge)
as for new weaves, I
would stay away from haste or stat boosting weaves as that is
DnD and was stayed away from in WoT
you could do
something like fireshield, stone skin, I have been thinking of
making a new weave that grants Weave Resistance (a new ward
against the one power)
personaly I would be more
inclined to make an armsman who had a few levels in wilder or
initiate and a bunch of levels in blademaster. but your idea
does have merit
-------------------- The prior post
is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or
opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.
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Mao
Member Member # 3827
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posted October 29, 2002 08:39 PM
I'm
generally against the whole stat buffing, yeah. Haste,
however, I think would be interesting, or an ability that's
similar (a variant of multiweave that lets you weave and
attack in the same round, maybe). Self only, and possibly a
class ability rather than a weave.
On the whole though
I'd figure an asha'man would be a better swordsman than an Aes
Sedai (the only book difference is that Asha'man get
longswords and aes sedai get quarterstaves or cudgels. not
really all that different). Wanderer or noble BAB would
definitely be
fitting. ----------------------------
I do like the
idea of a more martial oriented prestige class, something Rand
might have been himself (since he certainly doesn't fit blade
dancer as per the WOT RPG--it's just a clone of Kensai/Weapon
master, which is totally le lame). The whole fiery sword
wielding jedi type would be the gist of the class.
I'm
going to throw a prototype up here real fast.
Servant
of the Dragon (tenative
name)
Prerequisites-- Gender: Male Base Attack:
+6 Skills: Concentration 7 ranks, Composure 7 ranks,
Weavesight 3 ranks. Feats: Weapon proficiency (sword),
Combat Casting or Skill Emphasis
(Concentration). Affinities: Any two Talents:
Elementalism, Travelling
code:
Lvl BAB F R W Special ----------------------------------------- 1 +0 +1 +1 +1 Sword & Sorcery 2 +1 +2 +2 +2 Presence, Blade of Power (+1) 3 +2 +2 +2 +2 Bonus Feat 4 +3 +2 +2 +2 Armor Compatibility(medium) 5 +3 +3 +3 +3 Blade of Power (+2) 6 +4 +3 +3 +3 Bonus Feat 7 +5 +4 +4 +4 Improved Initiative 8 +6 +4 +4 +4 Blade of Power (+3) 9 +6 +4 +4 +4 Bonus Feat 10 +7 +5 +5 +5 Superior Weapon Focus
Def Bonus: As Asha'man (+0/0/1/1 etc) Rep bonus: As Asha'man (1/0/1/0 etc)
Spellcasting: The Servant of the Dragon advances in
spellcasting levels as if he were a multiclassed
initiate/wilder. His combined caster levels (previous
channelling class and SotD levels) stack and are compared to
the Initiate weaves per day table to determine weaves per day.
He gains bonus weaves as per his previous class(es), and his
DC is set by the highest channelling class he had previously
(if Initiate is his highest class, his DCs are based off of
intelligence).
Sword & Sorcery (Working on a
better name:P) As a full round action the character may
combine a single attack action with the casting of a single
weave, the casting level of which cannot exceed his applicable
stat bonus (int for initiate, wis for wilder). If his
intelligence is 18 and he is an initiate, he can cast a 4th
level weave combined with a single attack
action.
Presence: The character has an aura of
implacability which grants him a +4 bonus to intimidate
checks.
Blade of Power: While embracing Saidin the
character's weapon acts as a power wrought weapon with the
listed bonus.
Armor
compatibility: Armsman/Warder/Servant of the Dragon defense
bonuses all stack when wearing medium or lighter
armor.
Bonus Feat: The character may choose a feat
from the following list: Extra affinity, Extra talent, Tie-off
Weave, Multiweave, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat
Expertise, Improved initiative, Fame, Weapon Focus, Combat
Casting, Power-heightened senses, Mental stability, Iron Will
and Great
Fortitude. -------------------------
Anyone have any
thoughts?
The requirements for talents are open,
possibly, but in general I think the 'servant of the dragon'
ought to be able to travel--all useful Asha'man were able to
do so, else they were just mooks. And elementalism is a no
brainer.
-Mao
[ October 31, 2002, 02:16
AM: Message edited by: Mao ]
From:
Phoenix, Az, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Melriken
Member Member # 48882
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posted October 29, 2002 09:39 PM
didn't list
a reputation, and Mind over Body is a FRCS feat that gives you
your int modifier to HP at 1st level instead of con, and a
bonus HP for every Metamagic feat you take.
I would
also use Heroic Surge instead for the extra
stuff
Offensive Surge - The Servent of the Dragon gains
the Heroic Surge feat, however if the Servent has not already
cast a weave in the round he activates this ability he must
use the extra action to cast a weave. If the servent already
has the Heroic Surge feat track uses per day
independantly.
I would also add weapon focus to the
pre-requisits (as superior focus is the level 10 ability) or
replace one of the feats with
it
-------------------- The prior post is in no way
intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the
author. Read at your own risk.
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Mao
Member Member # 3827
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posted October 29, 2002 10:15 PM
Rep would
be as Asha'man, and yeah.
And I'll call it something
else, but heroic surge is much beefier than the proposed
ability but is always active. Heroic surge would let you cast
a weave and take a full attack action (pretty harsh if you've
got a tied off fiery sword or something). I'll give that some
thought, though. Hmmm. Thanks for the input. Oh yes, and
I'll swap the 3rd or 6th level feat to Weapon Focus, and
remove that from the bonus feat list.
With those
changes, barring a change to surge/etc, does it look balanced?
Too powerful?
I was thinking the BAB change and
slightly better saves were compensated for by lacking all
sorts of spiffy asha'man abilities, but I'm not a hundred
percent sure.
And, what do you think of the power
wrought blade while embracing the source idea?
-Mao
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Phoenix, Az, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Lord Schpungus
Member Member # 111502
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posted October 30, 2002 04:23 AM
I think if
you're going to allow them to cast weaves and attack in the
same round, maybe you should push that back to a level at
which the earliest takers will just be getting two attacks per
round. Also, there probably ought to be a bonus to casting on
the defensive (i.e, not getting hit with attacks of
opportunity while casting in melee). Other than that, it looks
really nice.
From:
The Global Community | Registered: Oct 2002
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
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posted October 30, 2002 05:33 AM
quote:
MaoAnd, what do you think of the power
wrought blade while embracing the source
idea?
I don't see why this would happen? Embracing the source
wouldn't change the molecular structure or how the blade was
made any...if anything, i'd say give them a +1 to hit/damage
competance bonus to show how much more 'effective' being in
the Void provides.
Also, the travelling talent
requirement...while Ashaman who can't travel may be 'mooks',
that doesn't change the fact that not every channeler is
strong enough to handle a travel weave of any type. basically,
i just don't like the idea of giving/requiring this talent. it
may not be in the same league, but in my mind, it's a step or
two away from requiring or giving the balefire talent.
*shrug* that's just me though.
As far as the 'sword
& sorcery' ability...you might want to limit the weaves
cast to less than full-round casting
times.
-------------------- felicia AKA Freya
Culadin
From:
dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002 |
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tremerelord
Member Member # 110819
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posted October 30, 2002 06:45 AM
I like it
Mao!
quote:
I've been
thinking about a modified Asha'man that specialized in
combat-based magic like fiery sword and such, possibly
things similar to 'haste' or 'buffing' spells from D&D.
I was kind of bothered by Asha'man not having 3/4
BAB to begin with, as they were meant to have sword training
(simply being proficient is kind of silly, since they get
NOTHING to do with swords in the prestige class).
Check out my Gaidin Sedai Prc also, I didn't include
gender:female as prereq just because I had thought of your
point about Ash Amon. TAsh Amon just aren't combat oriented
enough. Taim trained them as weopons!
quote:
I would
also add weapon focus to the pre-requisits (as superior
focus is the level 10 ability) or replace one of the feats
with it
I whole heartededly agree.
quote:
I think
if you're going to allow them to cast weaves and attack in
the same round, maybe you should push that back to a level
at which the earliest takers will just be getting two
attacks per round.
Good idea.
quote:
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MaoAnd,
what do you think of the power wrought blade while embracing
the source
idea? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I
don't see why this would happen? Embracing the source
wouldn't change the molecular structure or how the blade was
made any...if anything, i'd say give them a +1 to hit/damage
competance bonus to show how much more 'effective' being in
the Void provides.
Another good idea.
quote:
As far as
the 'sword & sorcery' ability...you might want to limit
the weaves cast to less than full-round casting
times.
This is a must. Prequisites should have something to
do with abilites gained. Say you gave them a blink ability
(Light forbid), then I would say make the Traveling talent a
prereq, otherwise don't try and overbalance. Why combat
casting or skill emphasis? There's a 2-4 difference
there. Overall I really like the ideas, good job on the
Prc.
-------------------- I know you believe you
understand what it is you think I said, but I'm not sure what
you heard isn't what I really meant.
From:
Niles,Ohio | Registered: Oct 2002 |
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted October 30, 2002 07:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Freya:
quote:
MaoAnd, what do you think of the power
wrought blade while embracing the source
idea?
I don't see why this would happen? Embracing the
source wouldn't change the molecular structure or how the
blade was made any...if anything, i'd say give them a +1 to
hit/damage competance bonus to show how much more
'effective' being in the Void provides.
I think an interesting one would be an ability that
worked *only* with Power-wrought blades. Remember Rand
channeling Power through matrices in his father's sword as he
stabs it into Ishamael's breast in tGH? While I don't know
that duplicating that would make sense, I rather like the idea
of a stacked bonus on top of the
PW...
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
From:
The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
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Mao
Member Member # 3827
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posted October 30, 2002 11:08 AM
To respond
to a few comments:
1. The sword and sorcery ability is,
if you'll read carefully, never going to grant you multiple
attacks and a weave. As a full round action you can take one
single attack action and one weave. That is it's like taking a
full attack action, except you get one sword whack and one
spell instead of a full iterative attack sequence.
2.
The power wrought blade thing is meant to simulate mastery of
combining the one power with force of arms. You bolster the
power of your blade while maintaining the source, because
that's what you learn to do (If you truly think about it, it's
far more power-effective to tie-off a 2d12 fiery sword, but
still--I think it's a pretty cool thematic power).
3.
I've looked at the Gaidin PRC and while I definitely like the
concept, I feel that it's quite a touch overpowered. It
definitely ought to, given the abilities it gives (Spellpower
anyone?) either be a very high level class, or be toned back
sone. We must remember that there are no resistance items in
WOT, so channellers being able to maximize their DCs as in
D&D is much, much more dangerous. A 20 int channeller
flinging an 8th level balefire with your greater weave focus
will be DC 27 (a 20th level wanderer with 20 dex will only
make that 50% of the time). Heck, a 6th level fireball will be
DC 25 for 9d6+level with the weave thing. It basically makes
you bloody well unstoppable.
The primary thing to
remember when designing prestige classes is that magic items
aren't the same as D&D, so certain abilities need to be
paid close attention to. No con items means lower hit points,
highly limited healing means people wander around injured a
lot, no resistance items means people have low savingthrows.
4. If you are a channeler without a 14 in your primary
spellcasting stat, you should maybe not be a channeler. 14 is
all it takes to travel as a 7th level initiate, or I believe
6th level wilder. You can do it at an even lower level, if
you've got lots of affinities or an angreal, maybe.
My
1 armsman/3 initiate male channeler has two affinities (spirit
and fire) and a ta'veren affinity for air, and a +1 male
angreal. At 5th level (1 armsman/4 initiate) i'm taking extra
talent: traveling, and I'll be able to overchannel 1 level to
skim and cast gateway on its own (it's spirit only, lowering
it to 3, angreal lowers it to 2).
-Mao
From:
Phoenix, Az, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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tremerelord
Member Member # 110819
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posted October 30, 2002 07:21 PM
quote:
We must
remember that there are no resistance items in WOT, so
channellers being able to maximize their DCs as in D&D
is much, much more dangerous. A 20 int channeller flinging
an 8th level balefire with your greater weave focus will be
DC 27 (a 20th level wanderer with 20 dex will only make that
50% of the time). Heck, a 6th level fireball will be DC 25
for 9d6+level with the weave thing.
This is true, but when you compare it to what they
would have without the class bonus, it's still DC 23 and 21
respectively. Not to mention the channeller in question would
have an Int 20 (way high, Rand only has Int 16), all five
affinities(otherwise Balefire would be cast at Lv 9 making the
DC one higher anyway), a talent for balefire, and be at least
level 18(Base Attack Bonus +4 in the Prereq makes a straight
channeller Lv 8 before they could take any levels in this
class, and 10 levels as per my revised version-toned down a
little). So vs a 20th level Wanderer. 50% sounds about right,
Lv 18 vs Lv20, excluding any abiltiy bonuses, feats, or what
not. And if you have nothing with weave resistance then it's a
useless ability there for you, oh well for ya!
quote:
The
primary thing to remember when designing prestige classes is
that magic items aren't the same as D&D, so certain
abilities need to be paid close attention to. No con items
means lower hit points, highly limited healing means people
wander around injured a lot, no resistance items means
people have low savingthrows.
I would very much disagree there, armsman have better
saves than a fighter and so on. The classes are balanced to
themselves, not whether they have access to magic items or
not. I think you're overanalyzing just a tad. The saving
throws are every bit as good as D&D, especially
considering WoT classes get a rep gain and Def bonus as
well.
quote:
1. The
sword and sorcery ability is, if you'll read carefully,
never going to grant you multiple attacks and a weave. As a
full round action you can take one single attack action and
one weave. That is it's like taking a full attack action,
except you get one sword whack and one spell instead of a
full iterative attack sequence.
I think what everyone meant was making the weave count
as an attack action type. Still make it full round for one
attack and one weave, but don't make it available until they
have 2 attack actions. Great idea for an ability though, I can't wait to
see your final version so I can introduce it in my
campaign.
-------------------- I know you believe
you understand what it is you think I said, but I'm not sure
what you heard isn't what I really meant.
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Niles,Ohio | Registered: Oct 2002 |
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Mao
Member Member # 3827
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posted October 31, 2002 02:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by tremerelord:
This is
true, but when you compare it to what they would have
without the class bonus, it's still DC 23 and 21
respectively. Not to mention the channeller in question
would have an Int 20 (way high, Rand only has Int 16), all
five affinities(otherwise Balefire would be cast at Lv 9
making the DC one higher anyway), a talent for balefire, and
be at least level 18(Base Attack Bonus +4 in the Prereq
makes a straight channeller Lv 8 before they could take any
levels in this class, and 10 levels as per my revised
version-toned down a little). So vs a 20th level Wanderer.
50% sounds about right, Lv 18 vs Lv20, excluding any abiltiy
bonuses, feats, or what not. And if you have nothing with
weave resistance then it's a useless ability there for you,
oh well for ya!
Rand's applicable channeling stat is his wisdom which
is 19.
quote:
I
would very much disagree there, armsman have better saves
than a fighter and so on. The classes are balanced to
themselves, not whether they have access to magic items or
not. I think you're overanalyzing just a tad. The saving
throws are every bit as good as D&D, especially
considering WoT classes get a rep gain and Def bonus as
well.
Armsmen get half ref save better than D&D fighters,
and about half the bonus feats. I'll take D&D fighter any
day, thanks In D&D most characters get stat bonus items and
resistance items, both of which can jack your savingthrows up
/significantly/ (+8 total to a save from a +6 stat item and a
+5 resistance item). Not to mention they can wish for
permanently increased ability scores, and can cast spells that
give them temporary stats or resistance bonuses.
The
only reason armsman is comparable to other fighter types in
WOT is that they get huge armor classes and no one else has
any huge to hit bonuses as in D&D (no +6 str item, +5
swords or anything).
quote:
I
think what everyone meant was making the weave count as an
attack action type. Still make it full round for one attack
and one weave, but don't make it available until they have 2
attack actions. Great idea for an ability though, I can't wait to
see your final version so I can introduce it in my
campaign.[/QB]
Yeah, I actually agree with this. Think I will drop the
multiweave prerequisite and raise the class BAB prereq to +6.
(thus one of the optimal ways of reaching it is 3 armsman/6
initiate or so--or armsman 4/Initiate 4 at the earliest).
Will make the edits as I go here
-Mao
From:
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