Author
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Topic: A question
about Golems |
Harkael
Member Member # 104966
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posted November 27, 2002 08:14 PM
doh! i
meant that rand notes that it doesnt protect him from
saidin.......oops
-------------------- "What do you
mean I missed? but i rolled....an......18..."
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
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posted November 27, 2002 08:37 PM
Rand
thinks Mat's medallion doesn't protect him from the one
power. He's mistaken. Jordan has directly stated that it does,
citing as evidence Halima/Aran'gar's failed attempt to channel
at him. The reason it didn't protect him from Rhavin was that
the lightning was an indirect effect.
And
specifically, Mat said, "I want a way to be free of Aes Sedai
and the Power." Emphasis
mine.
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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Moridin00
Member Member # 54124
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posted November 27, 2002 11:18 PM
Harkeal,
Rhavin doesn't weave saidar. Really.
I'm not sure where
you got your info from; I think a couple of wires got crossed
there.
Mat's medallion will protect him from any OP
weave; that includes saidin and saidar, but excludes the
TP.
The medallion's influence extends to protecting the
wearer from weaves that target him; or weave-effects left in
his path (e.g. air hardened in his path).
Natural
lightning will pass through, rocks can hit him,
etc.
It's that simple.
From:
Cape Town, SA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
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posted November 28, 2002 12:12 AM
quote:
Mat's
medallion will protect him from any OP weave; that includes
saidin and saidar, but excludes the TP.
Where did you get the True Power part? I think it is
possible but I have not seen anything to indicate the truth of
that assertation one way or the
other.
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
From:
Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted November 28, 2002 08:27 AM
Hey Crank,
do you have the book and page number where Halima/Aran'gar's
failed attempt to channel at him? I always thought that Rhavin
was able to affect Mat because the amulet didn't protect
against Saidin. I must have forgotten that
part.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
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posted November 28, 2002 09:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Xythlord: Hey Crank,
do you have the book and page number where Halima/Aran'gar's
failed attempt to channel at him? I always thought that
Rhavin was able to affect Mat because the amulet didn't
protect against Saidin. I must have forgotten that
part.
Sure, Xythlord. It's in Lord of Chaos, the chapter's
called the "Color of Trust," and the incident's on pp. 554-5
in the Hardcover
edition.
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
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posted November 30, 2002 09:44 PM
One other
FYI... I was rereading aCoS this weekend; the Gholam
knocked Mat's power-wrought Andrashei away before Mat could do
anything with it. So it's not conclusive that they're immune
to power-wrought weaponry.
-------------------- Dave
Rothgery Picking nits since
1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Malcom the
wanderer Member Member
# 118880
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posted December 15, 2002 06:00 PM
Just some
general advice for killing Gholams. Try hitting it with the
elements, anything not made with the one power that is either
fire, cold, acid, or lightning based should do it, failing a
lot of things of that sort running is a very good idea, but
one which is only a temporary solution. In WOT I would use
illuminators rockets, if you can afford them, or plain old
torches is nothing better presents itself. Maybe you can find
a machine at the academies that can help you. Good luck,
you'll need it.
-------------------- "Mad: Affected
with a high degree of intellectual independance" Little
Washu
From:
NY | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted December 16, 2002 09:00 AM
I can't
believe no one's linked to this yet, that I've noticed, but
there is always the "50 Ways to Kill a Gholam" section of the WoTFAQ.
-------------------- Evan
"Skwid" Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
From:
The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted December 16, 2002 10:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray
Skwid: I can't believe no one's linked to this
yet, that I've noticed, but there is always the "50 Ways to Kill a Gholam" section of the
WoTFAQ.
That link's not working for me, for some reason...
Screwy computer...
-------------------- "Suravye
ninto manshima taishite."
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Kossuth
Member Member # 115294
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posted December 17, 2002 03:35 AM
Very
interesting article.
I keep wondering if the reason
that lightning affected Mat wasn't so much the fact that it
was indirect but because it was natural.
You harness
the natural storm and move it into place with the weave. Then
you coax it to fire a lightning bolt into an area. The initial
targeting is with the weave but the bolt itself isn't under
constant guidance and remains a natural (but deadly) attack.
Its not like say a wall of fire which can only stay in place
with the weave.
That was certainly true in the major
battles where it was used but I can't remember if it was when
Mat died.
(Sorry if this has been discussed to death
already!)
From:
United Kingdom | Registered: Nov 2002
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted December 17, 2002 06:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kossuth: I keep
wondering if the reason that lightning affected Mat wasn't
so much the fact that it was indirect but because it was
natural.
Fire is natural as well, but it can be unnaturally
generated using the OP, as you point out.
However, we
know that normally lightning is not a direct effect of the
Power, we know so because Jordan said so (see the FAQ section
on Mat's Medallion).
[ December
17, 2002, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: The Great Gray Skwid
]
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
From:
The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
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Kossuth
Member Member # 115294
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posted December 17, 2002 07:04 AM
Yeah, that
rather fits with what I was thinking though. In the battle
between the Aiel and Rand etc when they were overlooking the
battlefield on platforms they pulled the lightning from the
clouds didn't they?? Wouldn't that remain natural? As a
contrast if you just created a lightning bolt or fireball from
a weave it cannot be natural as it wouldn't have existed w/o
the weave. As a contrast if you coax one from a storm its just
getting it to trigger earlier rather than later isn't it? Its
the sme lightning bolt as would fall later??
Not 100%
convinced myself either but its a very borng day at work and
I'm surreptiously re-reading book 2 while monitoring the
boards!
Can anyone tell me if the description when
Mat died gave the weather/sky condition? I have a horrible
feeling it included the words "clear blue sky"!
That
would certainly knock that theory on the head!
Raene
From:
United Kingdom | Registered: Nov 2002
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted December 17, 2002 08:33 AM
Not really.
Lightning doesn't require storm clouds, or much in the way of
visible clouds at all, really. All that is required is a
static differential between two points, and I can easily see
the OP producing that differential and the lightning being the
effect that is produced...
Always keep in mind that RJ
has a degree in Physics. He likes things to make sense, and
usually you can rationalize out the way the OP works pretty
well.
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
From:
The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted December 17, 2002 09:44 AM
And it
follows that extended fiddling-about with magnetism and
polarity (hazy recollection of Physics in high school...)
would affect weather conditions. Rand's extended battle
outside Cairhien and all the lightning that was thrown around
might very easily have drawn the storm clouds, although I
think I recall them mentioning that the storm was moving in
anyways...
Tangent: It kind of reminds me of the
Belgariad and Garion fiddling with the weather; it threw his
many-times-greatgrandfather into a rage because it messed up
the weather patterns all over the world. Not exactly related
to this, but...
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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Kossuth
Member Member # 115294
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posted December 18, 2002 07:41 AM
I'll bow to
your wisdom now I realise I know nothing about
lightning!
I was in fact thinking of exactly the same
incident as you HMB.
[ December 18, 2002, 07:44
AM: Message edited by: Kossuth ]
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Friend of the
Dork Member Member
# 58798
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posted December 27, 2002 05:44 AM
Was the
question here what a player should do if his character
encountered a Gholam? Well, first of all how the hell does he
know what a gholam is? Only the forsaken and a very few others
knows of it's existance. There is no surviving record of it
from the AoL, so only witnesses from AoL and they who beleive
them knows of them.
And frankly, the DM shouldn't use
the one in the books, it sucks. Even the forsaken think of
them as unstoppable assasins, and if a power-wrought sword
could harm them, they would know it as many of them were
blademasters with power-wrought swords.
On the other
hand, the GM shouldn't send a Gholam after the PCs unless he
really wants to kill them. I would rather send a Forsaken, at
least they don't kill you unless they can profit from it or
they feel like it. They might simply ignore you. ![[Evil Smirk]](Wizards_Com Boards A question about Gholams (2)_fichiers/Up_to.gif)
-------------------- Darkfriend,
Darkfriend, what'ya gonna do? a what'ya gonna do when they
come for you....
From:
Norway | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP:
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Cha'aman
Member Member # 70158
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posted January 02, 2003 04:17 AM
Rand's
reaction to seeing Mat dead could be a mistaken thought, as
stated, Jordan and other sources indicate that the medalion
protects against weaves, another indication is that to the
Eelfinn would still think of men and women channelers as Aes
Sedai, even the Forsaken would be grouped as
such.
Using a portal to try to cut it in half would
have one of two effects:
1) the weave would fall apart,
potentialy causing a hazardous secondary effect
(explosion?)
2) the weave would not be able to finish
closing, sliding along the Gholams body as he finished sliding
through, it might slow him, a little, but nothing
else.
personaly, I'm partial to number 2, if you could
use gateways to sever a Gholam, they really wouldn't be that
big a threat.
Opening gateways to other locations could
be helpful, including skimming. Leave a trail of stepping
stones, it might follow you in, but remember they are much
older than the characters, and may be aware of how skimming
works.
There are two ways to encounter Gholams: You
are targeted by Forsaken for death, or you are chosen to be
harvested by the gholam. If the forsakken puts you on a hit
list, they will follow you, and kill you when they can,
whenever there is an opportunity. If it chooses you, it may
leave you alone for easier prey, though the only people a
gholam is careful around are the forsaken and Mat. If you just
happen to see it walking down the street, or sitting in a bar,
there isn't likely to be an encounter, though it is a
possibility.
Avoid using them, the RPG rates them as
'G', which makes them a simple encounter for 18-20,
challenging for 15-17, and extreme for 12-14; the values are
for a party of characters with an average level of the given
value, a party is normally 6 to 8 characters. And the one
given in the book is probably weakened to make it possible for
a perty to defeat
it.
-------------------- Dovie'andi se tovya
sagain It's time to roll the dice Mat Cauthon-Wheel of
Time
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Balthanon
Member Member # 112305
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posted May 09, 2003 11:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MyJhongKngF: Okay.
According to the rules, how can damage be done to it?
c'mon...
Hit it moderately hard, not even very hard, but just
moderately. Perhaps it's just because I'm used to D&D, but
damage reduction 5 is almost nothing, even if you don't have a
+1 weapon. A peasant with no strength bonus and a longsword
has a chance of dealing damage against it. An adventurer with
a better than even chance of hitting it should have very
little trouble dealing damage.
Now if that 5/+1 is a
typo and should be 50/+1 or perhaps the ter'angreal
vulnerability forgot to put in the sentence about how it has
regeneration against everything except that ter'angreal, then
it might be a bit more trouble. As it stands though, it's a
fairly easy opponent. Personally if my PCs ever run across one
(triple 1's on a random encounter in the Blight maybe?) it
will have both.
From:
United States | Registered: Nov 2002
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Steve Russell
Member Member # 130579
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posted May 09, 2003 11:53 PM
Ok lets get
a few things straight yes mat protects him from saidin and
saidar (the wall fell on him the lightning did not kill him in
camelyn)
second the weaves work the same on Matt with
ter'angreal as the do for the Gholam per elaynes discription
(mat travels through gatways with a ter'angreal so
on.)
so go read 50 ways to kill a gholam at
Wotmania.com.
Also remember that Gholam are geneticly
engineered creatrues and that a gholam nearly kills
grendal.
-------------------- I have a reading
lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her
bosom while she reads to me. -Olver
Please visit and
review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace
Book.
From:
dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003
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Whitewinds
Member Member # 124732
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posted May 10, 2003 07:12 PM
If you can
manage it, I'd recommend dropping it into a pool of lava. I
can even see a way to get the lava you'd need, teh problem
being that it requires preparation.
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lostone
Member Member # 135656
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posted May 10, 2003 07:48 PM
First off,
anyone that has made their own version of the Gholam, could
you post a link in this forum so we can read it?
Ok a
couple things that have been bothering me in this discussion,
I'm replying to a lot of points that have been made so far.
The basic thing you need to understand about Aginor
and his creating the shadowspawn is found in The World of
Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time (a book RJ wrote about the
world and a good reference for anything not really understood,
however it only covers the first 4-5 books and hints at other
stuff). In there it says that Aginor "understood "the most
basic structures of living things" better than anyone else in
the Age" (of Legends, this is referring to genetics). So all
of his creations he made by altering and/or combining the
genetic structures of other creatures. This is why he doesn't
like Fades, he didn't make them and may not understand why
they are born from Trollocs. This is also the way he made
Gholams, why he limited it to 6 could be for any number of
reasons, but most likely because they are too dangerous or
hard to control, but it could also be because it was difficult
making the genetic structure that would block the one
power.
As for Mat's terangreal, it does block both
sides of the power (Aran'gar channeled at him and she channels
saidin because her soul is Balthamel, who was male) and here
is the reason why: Mat said he doesn't want anything to do
with Aes Sedai, the Forsaken were and maybe still could be
considered Aes Sedai (even the males), it could be argued they
are the only real Aes Sedai in existence, since the current
version with the White Tower is a pale reflection of what it
was in the Age of Legends. Rahvin's lightning got mat because
the lightning storm was caused by the one power, but the
lightning struck randomly (much like when Rand uses Callandor
on the Seanchan, he causes the storm but the lightning strikes
where it wishes, the lightning itself isn't a weave, the storm
is). This follows the same loophole as throwing an object with
air at mat, the object can still hit him. Same idea with a
gateway, mat can go through them because he isn't touching the
edge of the hole where the weaves are. And when mat used it on
the gholam it did not harm the terangreal, it still works
fine. But it did burn the gholam like a human touching red-hot
iron. I don't really understand why, but I'd be interested to
know what happens if a gholam enters (or tries to enter) a
stedding.
Now I want to respond to the idea of hurting
a Gholam with a gateway. You couldn't open a gateway where a
gholam is standing and hurt it, it would come into contact
with the weaves and negate them before the gateway opened
enough to hurt it, but if it was passing through a previously
opened gateway and you cut the weave, the hole in the pattern
would collapse and leave the gholam in two pieces, one at each
area the hole linked.
From:
Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003 |
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AvaronGansdell
Member Member # 56181
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posted May 10, 2003 08:09 PM
or the
simple way to defeat it...open the skimming portal. Kick it
through the portal and let it fall in nothingness forever.
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Fisher-King
Member Member # 140220
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posted May 10, 2003 09:58 PM
Gholam Medium-Sized Shadowspawn Hit Dice: 15d8+80
(140) Initiative: +9 (+5 Dex, +4 Improved
Initiative Speed: 50 ft Defense: 20 (+5 Dex, +5
natural) Attacks: Longsword +20/+15/+10 Melee Damage:
Longsword 1d8+5 Face/Reach: 5 ft by 5 ft/5 ft Special
Qualities: Damage Reduction 15, One Sense, Energy Resistance
15, Boneless, Weave Immunity, ter'angreal vulnerability, Fast
Healing 20. Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +2d6 Saves:
Fort +12, Ref +10, Will +5 Abilities: Same as in the
book Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Power
Attack, Dodge
Climate/Terrain: Wherever the Forsaken
send it Organization: Solitary. Very solitary. Challenge
Code: Off the scale Advancement: None.
Ability
Descriptions: One Sense: Same as in the book Energy
Resistance: All damage from fire, cold, electricity, poison,
or sonic energy sources is reduced by 15 points. In the case
of continuing damage, the first 15 points every round is
cancelled. Boneless: Same as in the book Weave Immunity:
Same as in the book. You make your own decisions on whether or
not Gholams can go through Gateways; I think no, and have no
basis for that. Ter'angreal vulnerability: When a Gholam is
touched with any item that blocks the One Power (though not by
another gholam), it takes 3d8 points of damage. This is not
effected by the gholam's damage reduction or energy resistance
- in fact, it's pretty much the only thing that's not. This
damage cannot be healed by the Gholam's fast healing
either.
-------------------- "You ain't gettin' me
on your goal row!"
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Slidell, LA | Registered: May 2003 |
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