Author
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Topic: Seanchan
Damane Test |
Sophiathegreen
Member Member # 136464
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posted April 16, 2003 01:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray
Skwid:
quote:
Originally posted by Fyatuk: That's what
I have to say.
It's a shame it's directly contradicted by what RJ
(through Egwene in the Great Hunt) had to
say.
Everyone in this thread needs to reread the
relevant section, I think.
I than reading the second book now and I just start. I
did read ahead aliitle to when Egwene was capitive.
In
Book Seven Glossary under a'dam there is two version of the
Seanchan a'dam, there is than example of one without the
leash.
Also there is than unigue one that exist that
allow a woman to control than man who can channel.
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Fyatuk
Member Member # 133738
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posted April 16, 2003 05:09 AM
I re-read
the part of the Great Hunt where Egwene is Damane, but
couldn't find any mention of what the test for damane entails.
I found where she explains to Nynaeve that there is a test
every year to find people with the spark inborn, and those who
pass that (by failing) are allowed to test for suldam by
wearing the bracelet.
Could you please review the
section you are talking about Skwid and let me know where to
look (Chapter at least, paper back page number if possible).
Sorry, but if I can't remember something like that it bothers
me and I want to put that info back into my
head.
Thanks,
-------------------- Fyatuk
Loth Tai'Shin Weaver of Dreams
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted April 16, 2003 06:14 AM
I believe
this is the quote that Skwid is referring to from book 2, ch.
46.
"Nynaeve, a’dam only work on women who can
channel. Don't you see? Sul'dam can channel the same as
damane." Seta groaned through her teeth, shaking her head in
violent denial.
"A sul'dam would die before admitting
she could channel, even if she knew, and they never train the
ability, so they cannot do anything with it, but they can
channel."
"I told you," Min said. "That collar
shouldn't have worked on her." She was doing up the last
buttons down Egwene's back. "Any woman who wouldn't channel
would be able to beat you silly while you tried to control her
with it."
"How can that be?" Nynaeve said. "I thought
the Seanchan put leashes on any woman who can
channel."
"All of those they find," Egwene told her.
"But those they can find are like you, and me, and Elayne. We
were born with it, ready to channel whether anyone taught us
or not. But what about Seanchan girls who aren't born with the
ability, but who could be taught? Not just any womancan become
a - a Leash Holder. Renna thought she was being friendly
telling me about it. It is apparently a feastday in Seanchan
villages when the sul'dam come to test the girls. They want to
find any like you and me, and leash them, but they let all the
others put on a bracelet to see if they can feel what the poor
woman in the collar feels. Those who can are taken away to be
trained as sul'dam. They are the women who could be taught."
This quote does not say just how a damane is
chosen, is she sensed or do they put the collar on everybody?
There is a reference that says how the Seanchan are putting
the collar on people to see if they can channel. This might be
during a scene with bayle doman, listing to
rumors?
There is another quote that I am looking for
(after I get back from work today ) that says something about how a sul'dam who has
been one for a while "feels" kinda like an untrained wilder,
but different. I have to look for that one, but it may be in
WH in the palace with the captured sul'dam.....not sure. This
might explain why damane don't sense sul'dam, but can sense
other mareth'damane.
[ April 16, 2003, 06:17 AM:
Message edited by: Xythlord
]
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted April 16, 2003 07:56 AM
This is quite infuriating.
I can find
no evidence either way, and I've looked for the past hour or
so using Ideal Seek and Google Groups. There are adherents to
both theories.
The closest I've gotten is someone
mentioning that we know the Corenne has been testing
*everyone* with the collar. OTOH, I can't find a cite for
that, either. There are also references that Sul'dam are still
tested annually for Damane-hood for the first 5 years...which
seems to imply something other than "sensing for the spark,"
because, well, they spend all day around damane, anyway. What
would be the point, eh?
-------------------- Evan
"Skwid" Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
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The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
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Fyatuk
Member Member # 133738
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posted April 16, 2003 08:01 AM
*nod Skwid*
I'm in the same boat. The testing every year is bugging me
too. I really have no idea about this. I honestly do not
believe the collar is not involved, but there is no real
evidence as to what the test is. Guess that makes it DM's
choice...
-------------------- Fyatuk
Loth Tai'Shin Weaver of Dreams
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
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posted April 16, 2003 09:18 AM
Without
cites, I had always developed a picture like the
following:
They first test for marath'damane by putting
the collar on every girl. This catches 1) those with the spark
and 2) those who have channeled before. 2 would catch trained
channelers, wilders (though it's doubtful there are any
wilders in Seandar), and Sul'dam who have developed the talent
through continued use of the a'dam.
Then, of those who
'failed' the collar test, they put the bracelet on them, and
if they feel the woman in the collar, they are trained as
Sul'dam.
By using the collar first, if the woman is
held by it, then conveniently they are already leashed and
can't run, fight back, or do anything someone who has just
been identified as marath'damane would do. They are then taken
away, names stricken from family books, etc.
*shrug*
Just my take on it, with nothing to back it
up.
-------------------- felicia AKA Freya
Culadin
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted April 16, 2003 04:03 PM
Aha! found
the quote that I was looking for. WH, CH 20
Often
she thought she could almost see damane's weaves, and she
could always sense a damane's presence and know how strong she
was. Many sui'dam could; everyone knew it came from long
experience at handling the a'dam. Yet the sight of that
desperate pair roused unwanted thoughts, putting a different
and frightening complexion on what she had always accepted.
Did she almost see the weaves, or did she really see?
Sometimes she thought she felt the channeling, too. Even
sui'dam had to undergo the yearly testing, until their
twenty-fifth naming day, and she had passed by failing every
time. Only. . . . here would be a new testing after Renna and
Seta were discovered, a new testing to find the marath'damane
who somehow had evaded the first. The Empire itself might
tremble before such a blow. And with the image of Renna and
Seta burned into her brain, she had known with total certainty
that after those tests, Bethamin Zeami would no longer be a
respected citizen. Instead, a damane called Bethamin would
serve the Empire.
I have always assumed that the
testing was done with the collars for the same reasons that
Freya mentioned. As for the Sul'dam, they are first tested at
a young age, probably about 13 years old, as that is about the
age where women first start showing the spark (according to
the World of Robert Jordan).
So, it takes some time
before a Sul'dam develops the ability to sense other damane,
and see weaves. By this time, the Sul'dam are no longer tested
and just sensing them is not enough (still looking for that
quote ).
The missing quote is a POV from a
channeler that indicates that sensing a Sul'dam is different
than what someone with the spark feels like....maybe
Aveindha?
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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