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Author Topic: Bonding Question.
dolneagra
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posted November 06, 2002 05:55 PM      Profile for dolneagra   Email dolneagra    Edit/Delete Post
Could an Aes Sedai bond someone to some else against their will? It almost happened in our game, but we talked the Aes Sedai out of it. (Though, in retrospect, it would have saved an NPC's life.)

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"Damn, I hate this war! The cease-fires don't last long enough to loot the bodies!"

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Shadowkiller
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posted November 06, 2002 06:06 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
An Aes Sedai may bond someone to THEMSELF against the others will. The bond weave doesn't allow bonding one person to another. The specific wording only allows one person, the target of the bond weave, to be bonded to the channeler, whoever is channeling the weave. No other.

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The Great Gray Skwid
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posted November 07, 2002 06:16 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
Of note, it is possible to bond someone else to a third person, but only using Elayne's variant of the Warder Bond combined with elements of the First Sister weave, as far as we know. IOW, it would take some extremely bizarre circumstances for your character to know how to do it.

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Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
Ask me for information about the Texas Darkfriends!

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Matai Gaidin
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posted November 07, 2002 09:57 AM      Profile for Matai Gaidin      Edit/Delete Post
I was just thinking about what Elayne did and it seems to me that the effect of the weave she used on Min and Aviendha was that whatever happened to one of them happened to them all, as if they were all sharing the same experience. So, then she bonds Rand to herself as normal, but because of the "sharing" weave, they all end up bonded to him.

What do you think?

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"I think Matai's dead!"
"Good, I need the rest," Matai replied.

From: Modesto, California | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gray Skwid
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posted November 07, 2002 11:45 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
This is precisely correct. I should have pointed that out. As far as we know, it is not possible to bond someone other than oneself to a third person without also bonding oneself.

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Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
Ask me for information about the Texas Darkfriends!

From: The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
aleshandre
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posted November 07, 2002 01:40 PM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray Skwid:
IOW, it would take some extremely bizarre circumstances for your character to know how to do it.

yeah! like being present and unseen at the time that elayne and co. bonded rand [Dubious] [Eek!] [Roll Eyes]
that would take some doing [Dropjaw]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
dolneagra
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posted November 07, 2002 05:31 PM      Profile for dolneagra   Email dolneagra    Edit/Delete Post
OK. We know that an Aes Sedai can have multiple bondings in effect, but can two (or more) channelers share a bond with one target? The Eylane/Min/Aviendha/Rand bond would seem to support this.

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"Damn, I hate this war! The cease-fires don't last long enough to loot the bodies!"

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Xythlord
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posted November 07, 2002 07:36 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
I would have to say no, but I only have flimsy evidence to support that. I would think that if two people could bond the same warder then why hasn't Nyn bonded Lan yet. She has oportunity to learn that weave from Elayne, so why wouldn't she if she could (it certianly isn't Aes Sedai tradition, at least in her case [Razz] )

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Shadowkiller
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posted November 07, 2002 10:42 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
Must I remind you that Alanna was still bonded to Rand when Elayne bonded him in the infamous triple bond.

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^My Website^

From: Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
aleshandre
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posted November 08, 2002 04:30 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
don't forget that Nyn has been being AS to her toes lately, and wouldn't even consider doing anything that may be against AS traditions; including bonding her own husband while another holds his bond.
The books make it clear that it is not impossible to bond a person who has already been bonded to another, rather AS don't do it because they don't want to share their warder(s) with another. [Wink]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
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posted November 08, 2002 06:42 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowkiller:
Must I remind you that Alanna was still bonded to Rand when Elayne bonded him in the infamous triple bond.

Remember that Elayne used a variation of the First Sister bond, which the wise ones used to create a bond between two or more people....this weave is specifically made to bond more than one person, and it does not carry the same benifits that the warder bond does. There was no talk of being able to sense shadowspawn, increasing stamina or especially being able to command the warder.

Now, the case of Nyn has been being AS to her toes lately, and wouldn't even consider doing anything that may be against AS traditions; including bonding her own husband while another holds his bond. Well this could be a good reason that she hasn't bonded Lan yet (like I said before my evidence was a little flimsy), it does not make a iron clad case for being able to bond one person to two different Aes Sedai. What happened to Elayne and Avendieh, and a regular Warder bond were two different weaves as Elayne should know, she had experienced both.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
aleshandre
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posted November 08, 2002 06:58 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
In WH, elayne told rand that it is possible to bond a person who is bonded to another and that the only reason that AS don't is because of tradition(not law), and because AS aren't willing to share. She had inquired of one of the other sisters on that count.
also, the weave that elayne cast was really 2 weaves; 1st an inclusionary weave on herself and the other 2, second a warder bond on rand. [Wink]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gray Skwid
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posted November 08, 2002 10:33 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
*DING*

Aleshandre's the winner! She's absolutely right, Xythlord...

--------------------
Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
Ask me for information about the Texas Darkfriends!

From: The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
aleshandre
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Member # 27286



posted November 08, 2002 12:48 PM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray Skwid:
*DING*

Aleshandre's the winner! She's absolutely right, Xythlord...

Thanks Skwind... please allow me to correct a minor gender issue - I am a male. No offense was taken, It is a completely understandable mistake since nobody can see my face. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Heron_Marked_Blade
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posted November 08, 2002 01:04 PM      Profile for Heron_Marked_Blade      Edit/Delete Post
ACK!!! [Dropjaw]

Doncha love message boards? [Bounce]

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"Suravye ninto manshima taishite."

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aleshandre
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Member # 27286



posted November 08, 2002 02:37 PM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
So, how many of you keybored jockies were thinking that my name sounded sexy? [ROFL]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shadowkiller
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posted November 08, 2002 03:16 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
Well I don't know about sexy, but womanly I would agree with!

--------------------
Children of the Dragon
^My Website^

From: Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
aleshandre
Member
Member # 27286



posted November 08, 2002 03:29 PM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
In the tradition of WoT, I modified a common name that I like to come up with a more WoT sounding one... thus Alexander becomes Aleshandre [Wink]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
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posted November 08, 2002 04:07 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Yup......Just looked it up and I must now gracefully bow out, the field is yours. Now this does raise some questions though, I created a weave that was in the Netbook UtDB called the adoption weave. This would allow someone to perform the First sister ceremony as Elayne and Avendeia (spelled something like that) did. From what I can tell, after you pointed it out the Inclusion weave allowed Elayne to Bond Rand to all three of them.

Would a First sister have the same bond if her sister already had a warder (say an Aes Sedai with a warder went and got herself made a first sister to an Aiel Wise One). Would they both be considered Bonded to the warder or is it only through that Inclusion weave that this would be possible. So if Elayne had bonded Rand by herself, after Av hade been made first sister....would they both have been bonded to him? [Dubious]

I would be curious what you all think, as I will change the adoption weave to reflect that.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
dolneagra
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posted November 08, 2002 04:34 PM      Profile for dolneagra   Email dolneagra    Edit/Delete Post
Thanks everone for their input. Xythlord, I hope you get that weave worked out.

--------------------
"Damn, I hate this war! The cease-fires don't last long enough to loot the bodies!"

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Heron_Marked_Blade
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posted November 08, 2002 04:36 PM      Profile for Heron_Marked_Blade      Edit/Delete Post
[edit: In response to Xythlord]

I doubt it. Remember, Elayne had already bonded Birgitte as her warder before she went through the Aiel ceremony with Aviendha, and there's no indication (actually, indication to the contrary) that Aviendha shares any sort of bond with Birgitte; WH, p. 296-299.

[ November 08, 2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Heron_Marked_Blade ]

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"Suravye ninto manshima taishite."

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Xythlord
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posted November 08, 2002 04:45 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Good point, so no worries about the adoption weave.

--------------------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
aleshandre
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posted November 10, 2002 07:48 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
The Wise Ones said that no one outside the room would be affected by what was done inside, in response to Elayne's question reguarding Birgite, that she may sense a part of what they share, but it would not affect the bonding. [Wink]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged


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