my profile | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Wizards.Com Boards   » Wheel of Time   » Death by Force

   
Author Topic: Death by Force
Shadowkiller
Member
Member # 110597



posted October 25, 2002 12:02 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
What would you all say is an appropriate "Impossible" Encounter for 10th level characters. Heres the setting. 3 Female channelers, 1 male channeler, 1 Algai'di'siswai, 1 Warder/wolfbrother, 1 mid level wolfbrother, 1 woodsman(about to be blademaster), 1 Commander(Mount focused), 1 Noble(Ranged attacks), a Wolfdragon(Dragonne from 3rd ed MM), a powered up wolf(3 HD), and 9 soldiers(5 archer, 4 sword). [Evil Smirk]

For equipment, they have 2 3rd level angreal(1 male, 1 female), a 4th level sa'angreal(female), multiple power wrought blades(3 I think, +1), and a few other little extras. The channelers are all well equipped with weaves as well. I'd like to get an encounter for them and how would it be played. [NoNoNo]

For an example, they have easily taken out encounters up to 5 difficulty levels higher then them. At 6th level, they took out 40 trollocs, 1 trolloc captain(4 levels of armsman and a power wrought scythesword), and a Myrddraal quite easily. The only reason it took more then 2 rounds was the Myrddraal and the Trolloc Captain [Beholder] had a lot of hitpoints. [Mad]

As my 1 year anniversary of my game is coming up, I'd like to throw something special at them. I want to see what kind of stress they can stand up to before breaking. Having a few choices to pick from would also be nice. Feel free to use anything from my webpage as I use all of the rules from it. You can find the webpage below. [Devilish]

[ October 25, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Shadowkiller ]

--------------------
Children of the Dragon
^My Website^

From: Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Milosh
Member
Member # 108275



posted October 25, 2002 12:26 PM      Profile for Milosh   Email Milosh    Edit/Delete Post
I would use a Gholam i think thats what they are called, I mean it sounds like these characters are quite powerful to stop 40 trollocs, Seg. and Fade, in 2 rounds. Use a gholam and watch the blood drain from the channelers face as there fireball weave unravels as it get to the gholam, then they better run and this is when it gets fun, only way around this i think would be Master Ward, but then i dont know if it would stop a gholam since it not directed at him, who knows through one of those in and stir some **** up. Make those lvl 6 characters remake [Devilish]
Not to mention its a good humbling creature for the players [Evil Smirk] That’s probably what I would do though I’m sure people will think its a tad OverKill but that bring up the important question, as far as should we run or should we make the DM **** a brick as we kill his BIG creature [Cthulhu] Just a thought from my perspective

You guys have a safe weekend !!! I will...... [Angel]

From: CDA | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Heron_Marked_Blade
Member
Member # 110617



posted October 25, 2002 12:55 PM      Profile for Heron_Marked_Blade      Edit/Delete Post
Sounds like a group used to having their own way with things.

I don't know what your timeline looks like, but they may have fun running into a rogue band of Shaido (say, 200+?), or possibly spending some time in a mirror world being chased by __________ (<----fill in the blank - a sufficiently frightening D&D monster would foot the bill) -- anything to get them out of any ruts they may have fallen in regarding how they deal with a situation.

How about some Seanchan with their damane? Has your group faced other channelers before? What about sea battle? That might be fun, if you can work it out. A gholam would DEFINITELY test their resolve, especially since it effectively takes the channelers out of it. That might be a little extreme, though, unless your group is creative. If they can't react quickly enough, they may have fun rolling up new characters. [Devilish]

The Blight sounds like a place most sane people would avoid, and the fact that no one knows everything that's up there could allow a GM to deflate any self-satisfied gamer VERY quickly.

Just my 2cp.

--------------------
"Suravye ninto manshima taishite."

Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Eosin_the_Red
Member
Member # 30113


posted October 25, 2002 12:56 PM      Profile for Eosin_the_Red   Email Eosin_the_Red    Edit/Delete Post
It seems the problem is the amount of channeling firepower they can put against an opponent.

Put them in a crowded city - during a festivel of some sort. Use at least 3 opposing channelers (There are some premade ones on Call of the Horn.). I would throw primarily human adversaries at them, to blend with the crowd (a blademaster, a warder, 6-8 armsmen 3-6th level, 3 Darkfriend Assassians 7-10th level, and 4 Myrrdraal). Throw in 6-10 gunch dummies to draw the big nasties and get the channelers to throw away some weaves.

I would have the wolf go nutty. Then the gunch dummies come at them, with hints of the fade to the AS & wolfbrother. If a known or obvious channeler is present wait till they start channeling and have them make spot vs one of the DF assassians hide. They have made their way up in the crowds but to act they will need to give away thier position.

The two big hitters will move to engage anyone who approaches the opposing channelers. Two of the Myrrdraal will move through shadows and decimate the soldiers.

Make lots of open doors and lots of obsticales. Enforce LOS rules. Keep one DF assassian moveing on the rooftops. Hopefully, taking out the Aiel.

You might need one or two more big hitter since the party is so big but the tactics should make the day. Good guys will be split, big offensive spells are out, the Myrrdraal should tear up the soldiers, too be safe the warder & blademaster will need to be taken down by a channeler or two -to-one. The assaissians should keep the party off balance and keep everyone edgy and less daring. Keep the bad guys moving into and out of LOS.

If they get brave with the area of effect spells, have some members of which ever elite guard resides in the area (defenders of the stone, queens guard, the companions) exit a building nearby. In the carnage they assume the PCs who disreguard "collateral damage" to be the enemy in league with the shadowspawn.

--------------------
Call of the Horn
Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the WOT RPG FAQ.

From: Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shadowkiller
Member
Member # 110597



posted October 25, 2002 01:14 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
Wow, some good stuff so far. First thing I'd like to say is if they die, it doesn't matter, this will be a test of their skills thusfar and only for fun since it will be our anniversary.

I've thought about the gholam idea before. A single gholam would get slaughtered by my group. The non-channelers are in high enough proportion to handle it. But if I throw a few other things in there, the gholam might be a little much, dunno, haven't tried. 2 or 3 gholams would probably also be a bit much.

My channelers have faced other channelers before, quite easily. In fact, just before that 40 trolloc thing, they faced 2 10th level black ajah and beat them senseless. Just this last week, our male channeler took on 6 Black ajah(between 10 and 15th level) and managed to deal a good amount of damage. He only lasted 2 rounds since he was alone, but it was enough. Then the person I consider my most powerful channeler took on 3 of them(linked), broke through their shield and toasted them in one round with fireballs(double weave, feat on my website).

I really like your strategy Eosin. It might just work, till the people on the streets start running for their lives with a Myrddraal around. As soon as the streets are clear, Mass destruction. But there is enough going on, I might just get them anyway. Keep em coming people, I'm loving it.

--------------------
Children of the Dragon
^My Website^

From: Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted October 25, 2002 01:25 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Hostile channelers (assuming you aren't Darkfriends, Darkfriends, Seanchan, Shiado, and insane male wilders are all possiblities) would probably be helpful in slowing them down. I strongly suspect your characters are relying heavily on the Power if they're winning while badly outnumbered.

Are your characters mostly 'good' (they aren't Darkfriends, don't like killing civilians, and such)? If so, it's very easy to use social conventions (the law in Tear or Amadacia, Whitecloaks) to keep them from channeling.

Are your channlers afiliated with any larger groups? If not, the Aes Sedai could cause problems for them even if they're not Darkfriends or otherwise evil.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eosin_the_Red
Member
Member # 30113


posted October 25, 2002 01:25 PM      Profile for Eosin_the_Red   Email Eosin_the_Red    Edit/Delete Post
double post....

[ October 25, 2002, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Eosin_the_Red ]

--------------------
Call of the Horn
Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the WOT RPG FAQ.

From: Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted October 25, 2002 01:29 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Are the hostile channelers you're creating as well-optimised and as well-played as the PCs? 6 10-15th level channelers with reasonable non-channeling support should have wiped out a 10th-level party foolish enough not to run.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged
Member
Member # 101183



posted October 25, 2002 01:41 PM      Profile for Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged   Email Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged    Edit/Delete Post
Well, if you are looking for something properly nasty, you could make a lvl 15 or so shadar bekkar (one of the prestige classes I posted for the PrC challenge). I have used them before in a campaign *giggles* and it, well, suffice to say there was much remaking of characters. Make him like lvl 10 shadar bekkar and 5 wilder. Will end up with a will save on the up side of 20-25 (to irk channelers), and an insane amount of bonus weaves. Since he is can't duke it out is hand to hand (due to your heroe's small army), you should give him some body guards, maybe a couple lvl 6-8 wilders as apprentices and 4 lvl 6 armsman, 2 lvl 10 blademasters as the last line guards. Don't forget, the Shadar Bekkar is not a darkfriend/ shadowspawn, they are simply very corrupt.

--------------------
I have gone out to look for myself. If I should happen to return before I get back, please tell myself to wait.

From: The middle of nowhere....South Dakota | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Shadowkiller
Member
Member # 110597



posted October 25, 2002 01:49 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
The channelers are always well optimized. I make my channelers as deadly as possible. The problem that seems to take place is the speed at which my group incapacitates the channelers as well as the ability of my group to save against the channeler. For instance, the 3 linked Aes Sedai tried to shield my strongest channeler. I have edited rules for shield which changed the DC to 29 for that particular casting. She still saved.

Also because I optimize the channeling side of my channelers, they aren't always the fastest off the initiative block, letting 3 or 4 characters get in (My Algai'di'siswai has a +15 init) attacks before the bad guys go at all. Perhaps I just need to find a good mix of classes to maximize all parts of them, making them more deadly.

I'll check out that Shadar Bekkar too.

[ October 25, 2002, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Shadowkiller ]

--------------------
Children of the Dragon
^My Website^

From: Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted October 25, 2002 02:12 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Between positioning and non-channeler guards (if you're really nasty, some of these are either Warders or Myrddral with class levels), no mundane attack should be able to get to a hostile channeler in one round.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shadowkiller
Member
Member # 110597



posted October 25, 2002 03:57 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
It can with the +27 hide Algai'di'siswai standing within 40 feet of the channeler and a well placed fireball takes out a large chunk of the guards. [Mad]

--------------------
Children of the Dragon
^My Website^

From: Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
dscrank
Member
Member # 56185


posted October 25, 2002 04:26 PM      Profile for dscrank      Edit/Delete Post
First, I'd remove their support. I'm assuming that not all of the stats you gave were for PCs. NPC support characters can be written out, and it's clear the players don't need them.

Second, I do like the Gholam idea, but the Gholam stats given in the book are severely underpowered. If you don't mind making him a bit more powerful (maxed out SW RPG-style martial arts, for one, and up strength and dex to overshadow a Myrdraal, and keep the damage reduction even against Power-wrought weapons--and after all that, then you give him a few extra levels), he should give the channelers a hard time. He'll need some support against the fighters, though.

--------------------
-Donald S. Crankshaw

Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
--Erwin--
Member
Member # 89492



posted October 26, 2002 01:56 AM      Profile for --Erwin--   Email --Erwin--    Edit/Delete Post
Send some war vets on`em. 5 x 9 lvl veteran whitecloaks or something. Of course a golam is an unbeatable foe for the pc`s. They would indeed have a hard time struggling against 13 black ajah. And you can use the dark one`s special forces (Exctremely well trained marshall arts humans) [Razz]

--------------------
Erwin Arynn of the Dawn Runners

From: Norway | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jkol the Butcher
Member
Member # 106364



posted October 26, 2002 02:19 AM      Profile for Jkol the Butcher   Email Jkol the Butcher    Edit/Delete Post
Destroy the Channelers! Here are a few ways

1) Many little channelers: A group of 13 wilders lvl 1 or 2 led by a lvl 3 wilder with a talent in warding and a spirit affinity can easily try and shield up to a lvl 7 channeler of the same gender. Given the wilder's overchannel (make sure they have a +1 bonus to con) of aprox: +12 (6 skill, 1 con, 5 wilder bonus) they should be able to try and shield a character of any level more than 50% of the time - throw many of these groups in with melee support and watch the carnage. This method I find works well to freak out a group but if even 1 channeler is not shielded 1st round the battle is all but lost. 13 people standing in a cirlce holding hands - and having relatively few hp make inviting fireball targets.

2) Median Channelers:
These should have plentiful melee and ranged backup - then instead of trying to tackle the 4 channelers singlehandely - ward vs. the one power. The backup stays in the protected radius - archers pelt the channelers to oblivion while blademasters and other melee types hold back their stronarms. Once the channelers are down for the count - the enemy channeler drops the ward and unleashes his/her true might [Devilish]

3) Big channelers:
Insert one to five level 15+ Channelers [Big Grin]
have one ward vs. people to keep strongarms out, and then use harden air to stop ranged attacks. The others should proceed to mulch the parties channelers. In this case go for sever - even if it doesn't work it should deflate their ego quite a bit. And the more times it is tried the more the likelyhood of that fatal 1 on a will save. Ignoring that there are not likely that many channelers of high level - several of these encounters should be enough to ensure cringing upon the sight of any other human being.

*** Disclamer: As GM Sever should not be used lightly - In fact it should only be used in the event you want to seriously maim or destroy a party [Devilish] ***

--------------------
Self Proclaimed Member # 001 of the Kill Paladins and Join the Blackguards Foundation (KPJBF)

We are the Sorg. You and your sig will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
(Please put this in your sig to show that it has been asimilated.)

Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Harkael
Member
Member # 104966


posted October 26, 2002 05:02 PM      Profile for Harkael   Email Harkael    Edit/Delete Post
I agree with the gholam. Not much else could scare the bejeezus out of them like a Gholam w/ better dam reduction (5/+2) or whatever is better than the swords you have, and some class levels.
That alone would reck havoc on your party. However it practically takes your channelers out of the fight (unless there are some very large boulders to throw....) So rather than fight one nigh-invincible beastie, just go with Eosin's idea. heh...maybe just keep the gholam on backup...depending on how evil youre feeling at the moment....

--------------------
"What do you mean I missed?
but i rolled....an......18..."

Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
KSB snow owl
Member
Member # 62925



posted October 28, 2002 07:29 AM      Profile for KSB snow owl   Email KSB snow owl    Edit/Delete Post
You know, with the party apparently relying so much upon the Power, it would be interesting to make them track someone down, etc. to Far Madding. Adecent fight with some darkfriends in FM alongside a low to mid level Black Sister with a small Well (One Power Well, that is) could be quite an interesting encounter. [Evil Smirk]

--------------------
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
[MainFAQ]-
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/er/er20021018a
http://www.liquidgeneration.com/sabotage/optical_sabotage.asp
oxxxx[==============-

From: Kansas City, MO | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
LuciusT
Member
Member # 4474


posted October 28, 2002 12:59 PM      Profile for LuciusT      Edit/Delete Post
You really want to kill them? Hit them with the Big Battle.

I'd say drop them in Tarwin's Gap and hit them with wave after wave after wave of Shadowspawn. Sure, they can take out 40 trollocs and a halfman. Can they take out 8000 trollocs and 40 halfmen? How about 80,000 trollocs?

By the end the channelers will be out of weaves and the fighters will start run out of hit points. They may be standing on a 50' high pile of dead trollocs, but they will start to wear down... and the horde keeps coming. It doesn't matter how many they kill. For every trolloc who dies, two more arrive to take it's place. Eventually, the party will fall or flee.

Heck, it could even be fun sesson, if you kept the descriptions vivid and your players enjoy the action/combat side of things. You just have to be carefull not to fall into the "roll to hit. you hit. roll damage. it dies. the next trolloc steps up." kinda thing.

From: Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted October 28, 2002 02:06 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
I can't quite shake the impression that something's not quite right. Some of the opponents Shadowkiller has described should have been able to beat his PCs as a described. More than that, they should have been able to do so easily. Certainly a 10th-level party with 4 channelers isn't taking out a six 10 th-level and higher Black Ajah led by a 15th-level Black Ajah (And where did the 15th-level BA come from, anyway? Cadsuane's evil twin?) if the BA have any kind of reasonable support.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eosin_the_Red
Member
Member # 30113


posted October 28, 2002 05:07 PM      Profile for Eosin_the_Red   Email Eosin_the_Red    Edit/Delete Post
I think it is likely to be tactics. A channeler can beat anyone, even more powerful channelers if they can arrange the circumstances to thier choosing.

BA are not necessiarily going to cooperate and use the most solid tactics while PCs almost always will. I do agree that played ruthlessly that is an unwinable situation.

--------------------
Call of the Horn
Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the WOT RPG FAQ.

From: Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shadowkiller
Member
Member # 110597



posted October 28, 2002 09:03 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
Well the 15th level BA came as I was bumping up NPCs in PotD. The tactics behind the BA was to remain inconspicuous as they fled with their quarry. The PC's didt care about throwing around fireballs and such, but the BA sure did.

The male channeler made the drop on them and managed to drop a 50ft radius fireball in their midst, which everyone in the region saw. This dropped every one of the BA by half of their hp, at least. only two managed to save. They took it directly out of hit hide with immolate, rend, and a little thing the player of that character drew up, steal the soul.

3 of the BA took off then, leaving the others to take care of bodies and such. Then 3 of my other players happened upon them, but not without the BA getting the drop on them. They decided shielding the powerful wilder would let the BM do his thing, continuing to remain inconspicuous, hopefully. Unfortunately the shield failed. My wilder saved vs DC 29 shield. She took her turn to throw two 50ft fireballs, using the double weave feat on my website, and finished off everything that was left except the BM.

The BM, with less then half hp, challenged the fighters to a one-on-one dual to his death, knowing the wilder could kill him in an instant. They agreed and he did close to 200 points of damage to multiple characters/creatures before they did 35 points of damage to him. I enjoyed that at the least. But as you see, it wasn't that they got me with tactics, they just got the jump and it happens a lot.

--------------------
Children of the Dragon
^My Website^

From: Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Eosin_the_Red
Member
Member # 30113


posted October 28, 2002 09:33 PM      Profile for Eosin_the_Red   Email Eosin_the_Red    Edit/Delete Post
SK - that is almost exactly what I meant. The players had the one up. Good tactics with the drop and multiple channelers is hard to beat.

--------------------
Call of the Horn
Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the WOT RPG FAQ.

From: Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
LuciusT
Member
Member # 4474


posted October 29, 2002 03:47 AM      Profile for LuciusT      Edit/Delete Post
We are, of course, remember the Three Oaths... of course these are darkfriends so they're exempt. We are also remembering the massive social and political consquences of using the One Power as a weapon...

...the frieghtened people who will no longer deal with them,

...the Whitecloak assassins who will kill them from hiding,

...the Whitecloak officers who will rally the frieghtened people by saying "Here, we have proof that the Aes Sedai are evil. You see what they can do despite their lies about. You see that they must be stopped."

...and of course, the Aes Sedai coming down on them like a ton of bricks for doing things that will make the people afraid, send assassins after them and give the Whitecloaks the "proof" they need to say such things. The Aes Sedai who will set them on a very small farm in Black Hills hoeing turnips for the next 150 years... after gentleing the male channeler of course.

Channelers can kill rip appart their foes with the Power. The reason they don't (Asha'man excepted) is because of the social consquences if they did.

From: Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged


All times are Pacific Time  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | http://www.wizards.com/ | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin BoardTM 6.2.0

Shop Games Books Magazines Stores Events Company Worldwide Community