Author
|
Topic: A question
about Golems |
MyJhongKngF
Member Member # 55538
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posted November 25, 2002 07:30 PM
Okay, for
those of you who have been playing this or have actually read
the books:
What is a golem? What can it do? Can it be
killed, and how? If not, how can somebody survive and get the
hell away?
I have never read the books and I don't own
the player's guide. However, I am currently playing this world
and we are currently battling one. What the hell is it and can
I hurt it?
Any and all tips welcome.
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Dayana Sedai
Member Member # 115395
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posted November 25, 2002 07:53 PM
Well,
running is always a good option. The answer acording to the
books? Can Gholams be killed. The answer is: we don't know
yet. Mat hurt one by accident when he fought it but it melted
the ter'angreal that kept him from being hurt by the power.
Weapons dont' seem to do any damage to it. Flows of the one
power flow around it. The saving grace is: Gholams only really
go after channelers unless ordered by one of the Forsaken.
That would be good news if you wern't a channeler. ::gulps::
Well again, running is a smart move, but they can find ya' no
doubt about it.
Good Luck
Dayana Adrinna
Sedai Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah Countessa of the House
of Adrinna
-------------------- The house of Adrinna
will rise to the glory of Cairhien and bring light to the
world. It is so sworn on the sun throne.
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted November 25, 2002 09:01 PM
I don't
have my book with me right now, but I don't think it melted
Mat's ter'angreal... I rather think the ter'angreal started to
melt
IT...
-------------------- "Suravye
ninto manshima taishite."
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Dayana Sedai
Member Member # 115395
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posted November 25, 2002 09:08 PM
I don't
have my book either, I only seem to remember it was melted
(because I remember thinking. OH MY GOD, IT IS BROKEN. Cause
didn't he say something like he was worried about how it would
work now or something? sorry if I'm propogating false
information.
-------------------- The house of
Adrinna will rise to the glory of Cairhien and bring light to
the world. It is so sworn on the sun throne.
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
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posted November 25, 2002 09:49 PM
There's no
evidence that Mat's amulet has been damaged. As a matter of
fact, when he felt it after it burned the gholam, it felt
cool.
Frankly, if anyone has a power-wrought weapon,
you stand a chance--if your GM's playing by the rulebook,
anyway. If he's using something like my revised gholam (which
I think is closer to the original), I second the advice of the
others and suggest running. If anyone can make a gateway, do
so, hop through, and slam it
shut.
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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Dayana Sedai
Member Member # 115395
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posted November 25, 2002 09:57 PM
What if the
Golam was half way in the portal when it slams shut? Weaves
don't affect it, it has no bones, but the portal closes and
the two sections of the patern are no longer connected. Half
on one side and half on the other? Does it get cut in half?
and does it keep living like a worm? hehehehehehe I am gonna
learn a bit of traveling
Dayana Adrinna Sedai Aes
Sedai of the Green Ajah Countessa of the House of
Adrinna
-------------------- The house of Adrinna
will rise to the glory of Cairhien and bring light to the
world. It is so sworn on the sun throne.
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
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posted November 25, 2002 10:30 PM
Gholams are
esentially magic dead zones - any active magic that comes into
contact with them will harmlessly dissapate. So, a gateway
won't cut one in half but you could chunk a mountain with arms
of air and do some serious hurt (it would survive but it takes
a long time to dig out for under a mountain.)
Mats
amulet is also a magic dead zone and it seemed to do a number
on the Gholem. I think there is an argument that it could have
been the silver in the amulet that did the job on the
vampi...I mean Gholam. Not so sure I believe that argument
but.....
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
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Dayana Sedai
Member Member # 115395
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posted November 25, 2002 10:40 PM
I don't
belive the magic deadzone-stedding theory. I personally think
the medalion of Mat's wasn't a magic deadzone OR a Ter'angreal
but rather something outside (from the snake people) something
PERHAPS of the true power or some other power other than the
one power.
The Gholam seem odd. Remember, only 7(?)
were created. They don't mate, and only one is known to have
survived. Perhaps the Gholam come from a mirror of the weave
or a different world all together. Lanfear (Selene) in EotW
either summons a pack of Gorlm or they exist on a mirror
world: Gholam may be such a thing: or maybe they exist partway
between the worlds and the one power cannot effect them
anymore than it could effect the dark one.
Perhaps I
should have been a Brown. Anyway, just some friendly chatting
I luvs ya' Eosin ::blows a kiss::
Dayana
Adrinna Sedai Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah Countessa of
the House of Adrinna
-------------------- The house
of Adrinna will rise to the glory of Cairhien and bring light
to the world. It is so sworn on the sun throne.
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Daikatana
Member Member # 96056
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posted November 25, 2002 10:58 PM
Mats
medallion makes the weaves unravle while the Gholam is not
affected becouse the weaves will not touch it.
Mats
medallionis a ter'angeral, at least thats what they say in the
books.
And Aginor made a total of eight Gholam 4 male
and 4 female, butt no one knows how many has survived thrugh
the millenia sice the were
made.
-------------------- "Son, when you
participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or
lose... it's how drunk you get" Homer Simpson
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
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posted November 25, 2002 11:32 PM
You can
describe the gholam's weave breaking ability however you want,
but it is not touched by the one power. Even the forsaken
tread lightly around the creatures (which are Earthly vampires
in all but name). Anginor created them IIRC along with all of
the other shadow spawn.
Was the gholam awake in the
stasis box?
Mat's medallion is the same, describe it as
you choose, but the one power does not work against
it.
In my book, I call it a magic dead zone. Not
believing something does not make it false
PS - The True Power comes from the DO, the
medallion does not seem dark.
PPS - I personally do
not think the Elfinn & Aelfinn are the dark ones servants,
but it is possble they lie somewhere outside the wheel. But,
they want nothing to do with the power, so I doubt the
medallion was crafted by
them.
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
From:
Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
|
posted November 26, 2002 08:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Eosin_the_Red: PPS -
I personally do not think the Elfinn & Aelfinn are the
dark ones servants, but it is possble they lie somewhere
outside the wheel. But, they want nothing to do with the
power, so I doubt the medallion was crafted by
them.
Then wouldn't it be perfect for them to have an amulet
that nullifies the One Power? I don't think the amulet works
by the True Power, but I don't think it works by the One Power
either.
In any case, I really do think you could cut a
gholam apart with a gateway since, like Dayana said, one part
would be physically in one place while the other part would be
in another place when the gateway ceased to exist. It'd be an
indirect effect of the One Power. I'm not saying you could cut
him with the edge of it, but I think a gateway would wink out
the moment the edge touched a gholam, which would be bad for
the gholam if he were halfway through at the time. You'd have
to slam it shut pretty fast in order to catch him in
it.
[ November 26, 2002, 11:36 AM: Message
edited by: dscrank
]
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
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posted November 26, 2002 09:21 AM
I decided a
while back that gholams were completely magic, or made of the
one power while Mats medalian negated it. With the gholam,
what does one power do when it hits a pool of One power, I
would think that the pool would eat it, like rain on a lake.
Thats how I imagined the gholam. Mats medallion(I cant spell)
is like a desert. When it rains, the desert just absorbs the
water and theres nothing left after. Thats why Mats medalian
is the only thing that hurts the gholam so
much.
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted November 26, 2002 03:16 PM
One thing
that I have thought upon is that if the gholam is totaly
resistant (or immune) to the One Power than would he be able
to pass through gateways at all. We have seen that when weaves
touch him they just melt away, wouldn't the weave for the
gateway do the same.
Furthermore, would the gholam
pass through wards or would they collapse on contact with
him.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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Dayana Sedai
Member Member # 115395
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posted November 26, 2002 03:34 PM
I belive
that the weaves create a hole (or similarity if your a girly)
in the patern. The weaves do not exist IN the hole, but around
it. The gateway itself (like the mountain) isn't of the
patern, just the holding open of it. When the weave is let go,
the similarity (or tunnel if your a boy) ceases to be held
open and colapses. If you timed it correctly and perhaps CUT
the weave the gate would snap shut. I think this would only
work though with a gateway and NOT a skimming
portal.
As for a ward, the ward is constructed of a
weave most certainly, the former my opinion, the later common
sense. So I do think it would colapse or bend. The weaves flow
around not melt. I don't think the ward would drop, but the
golam would just turn it into a lopsided bagel or donut or
something. OOoooh, redbull is wearing off . . . must
replentish crack
Dayana Adrinna Sedai Aes Sedai of
the Green Ajah Countessa of the House of
Adrinna
-------------------- The house of Adrinna
will rise to the glory of Cairhien and bring light to the
world. It is so sworn on the sun throne.
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted November 26, 2002 07:55 PM
quote:
One thing
that I have thought upon is that if the gholam is totaly
resistant (or immune) to the One Power than would he be able
to pass through gateways at all. We have seen that when
weaves touch him they just melt away, wouldn't the weave for
the gateway do the same.
Exactly - that is why this becomes
relevant:
quote:
Was the
gholam awake in the stasis box?
I wanted to expand but thought that a partial key to
its resistance is knowing if it was awake or asleep in the
stais box? If it was asleep that indicates that either someone
knew of a way to turn it off or it fell to the magic of the
box. If it remained
awake......
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
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Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
|
posted November 26, 2002 08:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by
Eosin_the_Red:
quote:
One
thing that I have thought upon is that if the gholam is
totaly resistant (or immune) to the One Power than would
he be able to pass through gateways at all. We have seen
that when weaves touch him they just melt away, wouldn't
the weave for the gateway do the same.
Exactly.
Mat can pass through gateways, while wearing his
amulet--reference the end of tFoH (to Caemlyn), also tLoC (to
Salidar, and to Ebou Dar). My take is that only the edges of
the gateways are made with the power. The middle is just a
hole.
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted November 26, 2002 09:22 PM
quote:
Mat can
pass through gateways, while wearing his amulet--reference
the end of tFoH (to Caemlyn), also tLoC (to Salidar, and to
Ebou Dar). My take is that only the edges of the gateways
are made with the power. The middle is just a hole.
Good call. I guess the middle of a gateway in not
enchanted or there is some eratta for RJ to write
That still does not answer the question of
the Gholam (I guess that might answer the question about
weather it could use a
gate).
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted November 26, 2002 09:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Xythlord: One thing
that I have thought upon is that if the gholam is totaly
resistant (or immune) to the One Power than would he be able
to pass through gateways at all. We have seen that when
weaves touch him they just melt away, wouldn't the weave for
the gateway do the same.
The gateway isn't so much a weave as it is a result of
the weave. If an Aes Sedai created a Wall of Fire, would the
Gholam be able to walk through it without being harmed? I
don't think so, because the fire is no longer the weave or
entirely the One Power. In the same way, I don't think a bolt
of lightning or a fireball would fade away if it was cast at
Mat -- the lightning and fireball are no longer the
One Power. They were created
by the One Power, but are now their own
elements. Does that make sense?
According to Encyclopedia WoT, Mat's foxhead medallion
"is a ter'angreal that negates flows of saidin and saidar that
contact it." When Rand attacks Rahvin in Caemlyn, Mat is
turned into a pair of smoking boots by Rahvin's lightning. The
ter'angreal obviously didn't protect him from the lightning.
Why? I think it's because lightning (and fireballs, etc) is
not a flow; it's a result of a weave, a
natural "element" produced by the One Power.
Back to
the gateway, flows are used to create it, but once it's
created it's its own thing. I think a Gholam could pass
through it, and that if the channeler was quick enough he/she
could catch him in the middle (Sammael catching Shaido Aiel
and cutting them in half when he "helped" them flee Rand);
looking at how fast the Gholam is, the channeler would have to
be pretty quick.
I don't have my books with me, but if there
is evidence of Fireballs or weaves that are no longer
weaves (if that makes sense) unravelling upon
contact with the Gholam, please let me know (page numbers
would help).
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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MyJhongKngF
Member Member # 55538
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posted November 27, 2002 12:15 AM
Okay.
According to the rules, how can damage be done to it? c'mon...
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
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posted November 27, 2002 12:21 AM
Like I said
earlier, try Power-wrought weapons. If you don't have any, or
the GM rules that Power-wrought weapons shouldn't work against
gholam (and they shouldn't), then run.
Fast.
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
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posted November 27, 2002 12:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by
Heron_Marked_Blade:
quote:
Originally posted by Xythlord: One thing
that I have thought upon is that if the gholam is totaly
resistant (or immune) to the One Power than would he be
able to pass through gateways at all. We have seen that
when weaves touch him they just melt away, wouldn't the
weave for the gateway do the same.
The gateway isn't so much a weave as it is a result
of the weave. If an Aes Sedai created a Wall of Fire, would
the Gholam be able to walk through it without being harmed?
I don't think so, because the fire is no longer the weave or
entirely the One Power. In the same way, I don't think a
bolt of lightning or a fireball would fade away if it was
cast at Mat -- the lightning and fireball are no longer the
One Power. They were created
by the One Power, but are now their own
elements. Does that make sense?
I don't have my
books with me, but if there is evidence of Fireballs or
weaves that are no longer weaves (if that
makes sense) unravelling upon contact with the Gholam,
please let me know (page numbers would
help).
One thing that I'm not convinced of is that a fireball
or wall of fire is not still a weave. That's not how fire
behaves naturally, so it can't be just fire and forget,
therefore I'd rule that they are still weaves, and that they'd
unravel on contact with Mat or the gholam. Both Mat and gholam
may take a slight burn in the process, but the full effect
would be lost.
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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He Who Must
Not Be Named Member Member
# 112820
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posted November 27, 2002 03:31 PM
In my
humble opinion anything, and I mean ANYTHING of the One Power
simply fadesn away once in contact with either Gholam or Mat
once he is wearing his foxhead medallion. The only thing that
would even touch them would be to wrap flows of air around
something and hit em with it. Gateways, fireballs, flows of
air all weaves fade once they come into contact with them. So
I will add my advice to all the others in saying run.
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted November 27, 2002 05:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by
Heron_Marked_Blade: According to Encyclopedia WoT, Mat's foxhead medallion
"is a ter'angreal that negates flows of saidin and saidar
that contact it." When Rand attacks Rahvin in Caemlyn, Mat
is turned into a pair of smoking boots by Rahvin's
lightning. The ter'angreal obviously didn't protect him from
the lightning.
This little incident is what's throwing a wrench into
my understanding of why everything (weave) One Power-related
would fade away upon contact. What makes lightning different
from all the other weaves that the medallion negates? Mat and
the Band are sent through gateways (Rand sends Mat to Salidar,
I think, and Elayne/Nynaeve's group takes Mat with them to
Ebou Dar via gateway), and the medallion doesn't negate those.
You could argue that the medallion doesn't actually
touch the gateway, but I'd disagree. No weave
targetted at Mat touches him, therefore the medallion's effect
applies to all of Mat, therefore he should function the same
as the Gholam in terms of One Power immunity. If Mat can enter
and exit gateways, the Gholam should be able to as
well.
Unless, of course, Mat's medallion and the
Gholam's ability do not function in the same
manner...
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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Raymond99
Member Member # 113714
|
posted November 27, 2002 06:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by
Heron_Marked_Blade:
quote:
ter'angreal obviously didn't protect him from
the lightning.
...What makes lightning different from all the other
weaves that the medallion negates?
My understanding of Lightning weaves is that the bolt
strikes a point, creating an explosion that affects an area.
Mat was kille by overlapping explosions, not a direct hit with
a bolt. Since we know that secondary effects of weaves can
affect Mat despite the medallion (drop a rock on him using
Arms of Air), the explosion theory is plausible.
As
for gateways, its possible that the "hole" is created by the
Power, but is not suffused with the power. In other words, the
weave stays on the edges of the gateway, holding the hole
open. As long as Mat doesn't touch an edge, the gateway will
stand (and since he knows edges are dangerous, he
won't).
-------------------- Raymond Medium at
Large
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Harkael
Member Member # 104966
|
posted November 27, 2002 08:12 PM
That's
interesting......whoever said that mats amulet protects him
from both saidin and saidar is mistaken. Two reasons, when he
asks the people in the archway he doesnt say "protect me from
the one power" (why would he) he says something more along the
line of "keep those aes sedai from messing with me" second,
when rand sees mat's smoking corpse he notes that evidently
his amulet doesnt protect from saidar. thought id clear that
up. and in the rules it states that a gholam passes through
wards as if they werent there, so niether the ward or the
gholam are affected in any why by it passing through. Just
thought id add that
-------------------- "What do
you mean I missed? but i
rolled....an......18..."
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