my profile | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Wizards.Com Boards   » Wheel of Time   » Making the power more like the books

   
Author Topic: Making the power more like the books
twistedbutsane
Member
Member # 117539


posted March 04, 2003 05:27 AM      Profile for twistedbutsane      Edit/Delete Post
Despite making the Channelling classes more powerful, I am thinking about a way to make the channelling more true to the books.
Channellers are not restricted by talents so much in the books. where it mentions talents for types of weaves it has more to do with strength in a weave type eg heal, or a lack of ability like not being so good at healing.
I think Channellers should have the ability to learn any weave, but have a lessened result for those they do not have a talent for, perhaps an effectiveness one slot lower than the level the weave was cast at. this makes the lowest level of a weave useless but that would be the result of someone having trouble with that particular talent. Also I have been asked to lower the level of the Bond Warder weave so it can be cast at the earliest an initiate can multiclass into an Aes Sedai(level 6).
Can anyone suggest something to balance these out? I know it makes channellers significantly more powerful, but an armsman vs a channeller? Even in the books the armsman would be trussed up with air no problem.

--------------------
Buffy: Let me answer that question with a head butt.

From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
Member
Member # 70903



posted March 04, 2003 06:13 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Try lowering the Bond Warder weave to level 5, this way an Aes Sedai of 6th level can cast it (barely) if she overchannels. Risky, but possible nonetheless.

I can't remember who posted it, but sometime back there was a feat called Minor Talent that would allow a channeler who chose it to pick two talents that she could use, but only weaves of 0-4th level to reflect only small ability within those talents (like healing and Cloud Dancing for example). Try looking it up in the search function.

--------------------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted March 04, 2003 06:46 AM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Err.... Bond Warder is level 5. And since it's extremely unlikely that anyone would be raised Aes Sedai without the Conjunction Talent (too many signature Aes Sedai weaves are here) or Spirit Affinity (it's really impractical not to get this one), it's effectively level 4. The weave has to be high enough level that Accepted can't do it without overchanneling, which pretty much forces it to be level 5 Conjunction and pure Spirit.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
Member
Member # 130579



posted March 04, 2003 11:15 AM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
an easy edition is the Feat Strong Talent Channeling feat by randy madden found in Under the Dragon's Banner net book one.

this will solve your problem and personally I would like you to remember things like overchanneling, the fact that one out of 25 men in the black tower burn themselves out. And a first level Aes Sedi would on average be at lest a 9th level initiate (considering moraine is 8th and was considered to have been raised quickly)

Finally Robert Jordan approved the book damit I assume he knows what he is talking about. Not every character is Egwene or Rand I mean look at their stats.

--------------------
I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted March 04, 2003 01:57 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Two things --

1) Jordan did look at the book; he didn't nitpick over it to anywhere near the degree we did. Which is why, as experienced d20 gamers who also nitpick over Jordan's novels, we know the character write-ups of Rand & co. in the rulebook almost all have serious issues -- in the rulebook, Moiraine is arguably the most powerful channeler, and can certainly hold her own with Rand and Nynaeve.

2) It's quite possible to take initiate levels after being raised to the shawl, and after a few levels of Aes Sedai, it often makes sense to do so from a game mechanics perspective (you certainly want the Extra Talent, Extra Affinity, and Improved Resources, but after that it's borderline). I figure a typical Aes Sedai as 5 ini/4 AS, a newly raised Aes Sedai as 5 ini/1 AS, and a weak but experienced and politically influential AS will often be 5 ini/2 AS/x Noble.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
Member
Member # 130579



posted March 04, 2003 03:53 PM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
a Rule book vs. novels will always have a serious issue you will never ever get it right. (look at novels based on dnd and a certin dark elf)

as for my average Aes Sedi to be honest, I AM AN IDIOT, I had not thought of the taking them later (I don't know why). Thank you Drothgery

I am posting average warriors on the board for now and will work on average channelers next sounds like a very good topic

--------------------
I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
Member
Member # 70903



posted March 04, 2003 04:21 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Oh, lets not go and take all the credit for being an idoit....I do seem to have managed my own personal blunder [Razz] .

quote:

Err.... Bond Warder is level 5.

But since drothgery has been picking nits since long before I joined this board I can't feel too badly [bow] .

--------------------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lord Schpungus
Member
Member # 111502



posted March 04, 2003 04:24 PM      Profile for Lord Schpungus      Edit/Delete Post
Kind of on the same topic, does anyone feel that there should be a channeler NPC class, or do you guys just give your NPC Aes Sedai/Wise Ones subpar stats to limit their casting abilities?
From: The Global Community | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted March 04, 2003 04:52 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I think there should be, and it should be called 'Wilder'; the by-the-book Wilder is incredibly overpowered relative to any purely self-taught channelers we've seen or heard about. But that's another argument entirely...

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
Member
Member # 130579



posted March 04, 2003 05:07 PM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
the easiest way to par down a wilder is for the GM to pick thier feats, weaves and skills you won't be so uber if all you know is listen to the wind.

--------------------
I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Talan Palaemon
Member
Member # 89819



posted March 05, 2003 02:28 AM      Profile for Talan Palaemon      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Channellers are not restricted by talents so much in the books. where it mentions talents for types of weaves it has more to do with strength in a weave type eg heal, or a lack of ability like not being so good at healing.

I totally agree. In my campaign we are experimenting with the following system:

The rule about being able to learn all 0 or 2nd level weaves are cancelled.

All Channelers know the Elementalism Talent (which is not considered a Talent).

A Channeler can learn all weaves, but if the weave comes from a Talent she doesn't know the maximum level of effect is the modifier of the Channelers primary Ability (Int for Initiates, Wis for Wilders). In addition the weave is considered to be one level lower (like if you lack all Affinities - and it is considered 2 levels lower if you lack both Talent and Affinities).

The result is that you can learn all weaves, but that you will be stronger (i.e. use lower Weave slots and cast the weave at higher levels) with weaves from the Talents you have - and weaker with weaves from Talents you don't have.

So far it seems to work.

Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Talan Palaemon
Member
Member # 89819



posted March 05, 2003 02:36 AM      Profile for Talan Palaemon      Edit/Delete Post
code:
 since it's extremely unlikely that anyone
would be raised Aes Sedai without the Conjunction
Talent (too many signature Aes Sedai weaves are
here)

I have always felt that the Conjunction Talent were really lousy:
Some of the weaves (i.e. Trace, Sense Shadowspawn etc) are 0 level and can be used by everyone. Compulsion is lost, but Bond Warder is essential for most Aes Sedai.
An Aes Sedai would thus have to use a feat to learn 1 weave [Mad]

I have considered simply adding these weaves to Warding. Anyway Conjunction is an invention by the book designers and are not mentioned in the books.

Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sharn_Penndroen
Member
Member # 82230



posted March 05, 2003 05:45 AM      Profile for Sharn_Penndroen   Email Sharn_Penndroen    Edit/Delete Post
I don't think that Conjunction talent is explicitly mentioned in the book, but it does refer to the fact that a few Blacks have the talent with Compulsion. Of course it could just be that given that it is a lost weave that not many people know it. A good comparision would be to decide if Liandrin had talent with Warding if you wanted to place those weaves in that Talent. Another Talent that is a one weave talent is Balefire, but I don't think that anyone would mind taking that talent if they could learn that weave. [Wink]

--------------------
A man who will not die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying

The Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral Ceremony

From: Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
LuciusT
Member
Member # 4474


posted March 05, 2003 08:20 AM      Profile for LuciusT      Edit/Delete Post
Regarding Jordan reviewing the book, this is from an interview posted on wotmania

quote:
3. How accurate is the information in the WoT RPG? For instance, it says that Taim was captured by Black Ajah. In your books, though, you seem to leave this issue open to debate. Does your official approval of the game extend to its plot interpretations?

I didn't consult with them on interpretations at all, really. I was trying to let them set up situations where the game could be played parallel to to the story arc, or perhaps outside it. I did try to find anything that contradicted the books, or what I intended in future books, and I caught a few errors when going over their galley proofs. I would have asked them to remove this, had I caught it.

Given that the particularly subplot involving Taim represents the bulk of a chapter of PotD, I no longer put much stock in Jordan reviewing the RPG (even less than I did before, which wasn't a lot).
From: Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gray Skwid
Member
Member # 34606


posted March 05, 2003 12:06 PM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by drothgery:
Well, I think there should be, and it should be called 'Wilder'; the by-the-book Wilder is incredibly overpowered relative to any purely self-taught channelers we've seen or heard about.

For females, that holds true, to the best of our knowledge (although I wonder about Cads' mysterious "teacher"). For males, not so much. False Dragons often are, by all accounts, quite the powerful and accomplished channelers. All on their own.

--------------------
Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
Ask me for information about the Texas Darkfriends!

From: The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
twistedbutsane
Member
Member # 117539


posted March 05, 2003 03:28 PM      Profile for twistedbutsane      Edit/Delete Post
I think I might integrate those rules you posted into my campaign Talan Palaemon, thanks.

Also yes, bond warder is a level 5 weave but an Initiate 5/ Aes sedai 1 doesnt get to cast a level 4 weave until she attains a seventh level, without overchannelling that is.

There is no reason to restrict the multiclassing of a cahnneller into Aes Sedai until later levels, the Initiate class doesn't represent the full span of an Accepteds term as an Accepted. They might have been an accepted for years before becoming a level one Initiate, I think the class is just to recognise the fact that they were formally trained. I mean this in the way that a person could grow up and fight all the time but only when that person is trained enough are they eligible to be called a fighter or armsman.

--------------------
Buffy: Let me answer that question with a head butt.

From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted March 05, 2003 03:35 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray Skwid:
quote:
Originally posted by drothgery:
Well, I think there should be, and it should be called 'Wilder'; the by-the-book Wilder is incredibly overpowered relative to any purely self-taught channelers we've seen or heard about.

For females, that holds true, to the best of our knowledge (although I wonder about Cads' mysterious "teacher"). For males, not so much. False Dragons often are, by all accounts, quite the powerful and accomplished channelers. All on their own.

But the overwhelming majority of men who can channel aren't False Dragons, and even False Dragons typically aren't known for breadth of skills; they're known for power. A 15th level Warrior can thrash a 7th-level Armsman, and the same principle would apply if Wilder had been written up at NPC class power levels.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged


All times are Pacific Time  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | http://www.wizards.com/ | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin BoardTM 6.2.0

Shop Games Books Magazines Stores Events Company Worldwide Community