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Author Topic: 13 Different Chosen?
Sam al'Haran
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posted July 17, 2002 11:07 PM      Profile for Sam al'Haran   Email Sam al'Haran    Edit/Delete Post
I don’t know if this has ever occurred to anybody, but is it possible that in an alternate world (reached by the Portal Stones) a different thirteen were bound with the Dark One? So, could there be a whole different group of Chosen? And is it possible for those thirteen to enter the world we see? That could cause a whole bunch of problems. It just suddenly occurred to me when I was working on a game plot. I was wondering if anyone thought this was possible. Thanks! Sam

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Be aware of everything, even when asleep. Only the dead can afford oblivion.
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From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
phrostphyre
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posted July 18, 2002 04:24 AM      Profile for phrostphyre   Email phrostphyre    Edit/Delete Post
Yes, I'd say it was possible... [Wink]

In fact I'd say it was possible for the same people to be Forsaken and still come through a Portal Stone, though there could be cosmetic differences in this case I would say.

And.. If the Forsaken can come through, why not the DR, or Matt, or a bunch more Seanchan, or more Aiel etc...

If you allow bad guys to come through, then you'd have to allow that the heroes of that Portal World could too. If the PCs found out, they might even seek them out.

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Cutlass
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posted July 18, 2002 11:15 AM      Profile for Cutlass   Email Cutlass    Edit/Delete Post
Of course, the reverse is also true [Devilish] .

One of the ideas that I have had is for people from other worlds accidentally coming to Randland. Suppose, for example, Mat spent the night near a portal stone. And in the morning finds himself trying to explain to an American Civil War Cavalry trooper why he can't go home. Imagine the help that such a trooper, who to make things interesting had been a gunsmith's apprentice before he volunteered, could provide once he realized he was stuck there. [Big Grin]

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- Cutlass

When the instructor said: "Ok class, today we're going to practice swinging across a 10' wide chasm on a rope while holding a sword in our teeth." I began to get the idea that perhaps this wasn't the sort of "boarding school" that most other people went to.

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shining_sword
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posted July 18, 2002 01:16 PM      Profile for shining_sword   Email shining_sword    Edit/Delete Post
Wow, you bring up a good point! This makes it absolutely possible to import creatures from the Monster Manual, Monsters of Faerun, or the Creature Collections. Imagine if an ancient red dragon from any D&D world came across a portal stone into Randland and made a nasty pact with the forsaken. An interesting quest for Randlanders could be to explore Shadar Logoth and find it is now infested with Tanar'ri or Baatezu. Imagine the things that could come out of the Blight or Aiel Desert. This just opens up a whole new can of Wyrms... er [purple] worms...

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Athos' Shade
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posted July 18, 2002 02:19 PM      Profile for Athos' Shade   Email Athos' Shade    Edit/Delete Post
...which is why I don't think it really works that way, honestly...because if any old person could come wandering in just because they passed by a portal stone, the world would be used to seeing unusual things - portal stones really aren't that uncommon. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea that, say, Forsaken or the DR from another world could manage it. But not, say, things from the monsters manual. Why? Because nothing has suggested that Portal Stones are usable without some sort of conscious effort. It's not random like that. Even Rand's first time required him to channel (though I somehow have the idea that Lanfear actually sent him then...not sure why I think that, can't remember, there's no evidence of it in Great Hunt, I just checked...) ...anyway, I think that it is an idea with potential, but carefully limited potential. The Civil War soldier idea is interesting, and I could see maybe justifing people...but if uber powerful things could be pulled through all the time, then, well, why haven't they ever been before?? For example, why didn't the Forsaken bring dragons to fight for the Dark One during the War of the Shadow? If you can come up with a good reason for this, then maybe it could be made workable. Otherwise.........
Athos

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"You do WHAT?"
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shining_sword
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posted July 18, 2002 02:35 PM      Profile for shining_sword   Email shining_sword    Edit/Delete Post
I agree with you to a point. It shouldn't be something that's common, as you mentioned that it would have been done already. The portal stone where such a creature would have to have been created for that purpose during the age of legends (or accidentally opened up into another world). Perhaps Sammael or some other Chosen made his/her way into that world and discovered the creature and "convinced" it to follow him home with promises of greater glory. In order to channel (thus Traveling), a Ter'angreal would have to be used; it would probably be a bad idea to let the PCs find this device. Remember that this idea is for a time and place set aside from the novels and doesn't fit well in the same location the main characters have just been (unless Rand's pulling of the Wheel cause something unusual to happen).

Also, who's to say other creatures such as giant spiders, carrion crawlers or golems wouldn't exist in remote parts of the land; things that stayed behind during the Breaking of the World? As a DM, fighting trollocs and gray men could get stale after the 567th encounter...

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Dark Ashaman
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posted July 18, 2002 07:51 PM      Profile for Dark Ashaman      Edit/Delete Post
The way I look at it is...

You are RP'ing in the Wheel of Time universe and thus to get the feel of the WoT and to have players experience the WoT universe, it is probably best to keep things in the WoT universe. By that I mean I don't see why people would want to start bringing in a bunches and bunches of creatures from DnD. If you want to play in the DnD world... play DnD.

But the idea to have Forsaken and heroes from Portal Worlds sounds cool. But we've seen in the book that the Dragon Reborn of the books traveled to another world. The same could happen vice versa.

I just think its silly to start throwing dragons and elves and goblins in the WoT world. When a GM runs out of creativity to keep it in the WoT universe, they should stop playing that and make the players roll up DnD characters. Not try to FORCE the DnD world into the WoT world.

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Suravye Ninto Manshima Taishite

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shining_sword
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posted July 19, 2002 07:36 AM      Profile for shining_sword   Email shining_sword    Edit/Delete Post
I know. It wasn't my intent to force D&D into WoT. All I really wanted to suggest was the possibility of other "dungeon encounters" while exploring a remote site. Oh well, just an idea anyway...

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Sam. As it stands, the possibility of otherworld Chosen or creatures/people does add new dimension to the setting! [Razz]

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Mattrim
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posted July 19, 2002 11:52 AM      Profile for Mattrim   Email Mattrim    Edit/Delete Post
The Seanchan got their beast from parallel worlds using Portal Stones, during the first thousand years after the breaking.
And hers a tip..buy the book Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time It's full of facts from the books even about the first Amyrlin! And the Foraken and some Shadowspawn:)

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You may have any place you wish, so long it is not larger than mine.
I would not mind you in my head, if you were not so clearly mad... you see madness waits for some. It creeps up on others.

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Athos' Shade
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posted July 19, 2002 02:42 PM      Profile for Athos' Shade   Email Athos' Shade    Edit/Delete Post
I've been reading the big book of bad art, I know all about it...
I had a thought on all this earlier today, I think I figured out why this is a bad idea...okay, so the Wheel weaves patterns for each mirror right? and the threads are the lives of the people in that mirror, right? Well, what do you think will happen if threads start ending spontaneously and reappearing in other mirrors all the time? That'd be badness, I would think...could probably tear and warp the pattern. [Smile] Thus, I'd think that bringing lots of people from different worlds (or sending people to different worlds) would probably cause many problems, and could destroy time and all mirrors...or at least all the mirrors involved...
Athos

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"I said, I kill Gandalf."
"You do WHAT?"
"I believe the time has come to mobilize the shire."

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phrostphyre
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posted July 20, 2002 09:05 AM      Profile for phrostphyre   Email phrostphyre    Edit/Delete Post
And that's exactly why the PCs would work to stop it happening..

Also, I think a limited selection of "Monsters" from DnD isn't such a bad idea. There are tails of Blight Worms and other weird creatures in the Blight. Don't see why something couldn't be modifified to function as one of those creatures. I'd avoid powerful things like Dragons, Illithids, Beholders etc.. though.

If the PCs are going in to, or tavelling near, the Blight, you could throw amny different things at them [Big Grin] Just make sure you change them enough that your characters don't realise they're from DnD..

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shining_sword
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posted July 20, 2002 09:50 AM      Profile for shining_sword   Email shining_sword    Edit/Delete Post
Aside from creatures brought in through portal stones, there are also natural encounters not mentioned in the sourcebook that make perfect sense to throw in from the MM. Animals such as bears, coyotes or wild dogs, badgers, deer (and yes, I've seen videos of people getting trampled and impaled by a raging buck!) and boars in standard woodland areas. Crocodiles, pihranas and other swampy things near low wetlands. In the Aiel desert, there would certainly be wild horses, venomous snakes, vultures, lions, and elephants. In the seas/shores there are sharks, octopi, jellyfish, etc. These animals will defend themselves violently when people just happen to trespass (as adventurers are prone to do very often). I don't know why at least some of these weren't added to the sourcebook anyway.
[Wink]

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drothgery
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posted July 20, 2002 02:25 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by shining_sword:
I don't know why at least some of these weren't added to the sourcebook anyway.
[Wink]

It's the same reason there were only ten or so major NPC write-ups, and twenty pages of weaves. Namely, lack of space in one book.

[ July 20, 2002, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: drothgery ]

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Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
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Maidenfine
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posted July 30, 2002 06:18 PM      Profile for Maidenfine      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sam al'Haran:
is it possible that in an alternate world (reached by the Portal Stones) a different thirteen were bound with the Dark One?

I think it would be an interesting twist if Demandred and Lews Therin were switched. Someone in another thread mentioned that they were born a day apart and Demandred always hated playing second fiddle. What if he didn't. That would mean that maybe the Dragon would be a Forsaken. Wouldn't it mess with some people if the Dragon showed up. [Devilish]
No one would believe that Rand was the Dragon Reborn if the Dragon himself showed up. And I'm sure the Forsaken that recruited him from a mirror world would look real good in the eyes of the Dark One.

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Arr MiHardies
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posted July 30, 2002 08:45 PM      Profile for Arr MiHardies   Email Arr MiHardies    Edit/Delete Post
You forget though, that he became a forsaken because he WAS second fiddle. I somehow doubt he would have become a forsaken if he really were the dragon, as not being the dragon was his primary motive for joining the Great Lord

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Arafel is Full of Strange Folks
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posted July 30, 2002 10:46 PM      Profile for Arafel is Full of Strange Folks   Email Arafel is Full of Strange Folks    Edit/Delete Post
Just to add to the overwhelming complexity of Jordan's landscape. We always have constant reminders that the wheel has been turning since the beginning of time, and that there are an "infinite" number of confrontations between the Dragon and the Dark One. Neither one of these guys can unweave (heh, at least up to this point) themselves out of the pattern. What's to keep the forsaken from weaving themselves back into the pattern so there always ends up with a full complement of 13?

Case being, even with a few of them balefired this time, those old forsaken get unwoven. Maybe the pattern weaves in new ones to take their spots? Heh, it's an extended thought at least.

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Maidenfine
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posted July 31, 2002 05:50 PM      Profile for Maidenfine      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Posted by Arr MiHardies:
You forget though, that he became a forsaken because he WAS second fiddle.

Actually, that was my point. If Lews Therin played second fiddle instead of first, wouldn't he become a Forsaken instead?
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Sophiathegreen
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posted April 13, 2003 05:15 AM      Profile for Sophiathegreen   Email Sophiathegreen    Edit/Delete Post
Why not have than orc's like darkfriend also in the bight. Of than Elfivh like races which help the goodside.
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Moon-Hawk
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posted April 13, 2003 10:59 AM      Profile for Moon-Hawk      Edit/Delete Post
Because adding more intelligent races would totally change the setting. Personally, I think that if you can't live without orcs and elves, play D&D (or Shadowrun, or something with them) If you absolutely need them in Wheel of Time, that's fine, it's the DM's prerogative, just don't call it Wheel of Time after that.
I don't mean to come off as a militant purist or anything, I love the idea of using lesser D&D beasties for creatures in the blight, just nothing super powerful or intelligent that would necessarily have a major impact on the world.

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Generality
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posted April 13, 2003 11:14 AM      Profile for Generality   Email Generality    Edit/Delete Post
It's been stated in the books that there are Portal Worlds almost exactly like the original, in which there are even people. The further you go from the real timeset, however, the more surreal, hazy, and blank the worlds become, so I don't think you'd be able to encounter dragons or beholders or the like. You might be able to meet a copy of Mat, but I think it likely that only people from the Real World are capable of using the Portal Stones. Maybe they are the only ones real enough to properly interact with them.

There is, however, another Jordan mechanism which has been sadly overlooked up until now, which could present almost limitless possibility- the bubbles of evil. A power surge from the Dark One, wrestling against his prison; we've seen evidence that anything is possible. People have been attacked by their reflections, by playing cards, by the ground itself. In Crossroads of Twilight we saw an entire city haunted by Wights, or something very like them. Imagine the things you could call forth with little effort. You could have a miasma roll over Rand's banner- poof, instant dragon. And so on.

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If the Dark One's name is forbidden, how does anyone know what it is?

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