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Author Topic: New One Power Channeling System
Philosopher Jack
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posted July 22, 2002 10:22 PM      Profile for Philosopher Jack      Edit/Delete Post
I have introduced the following system into my game. The players like the system quite a bit and, when I asked if they would like go back to the original system, all prefered to stay with this new one. Like I stated in an earlier post, I have been dissatistied with the channeling system in WOT. I feel it is too derivative of the D&D system, which is too inflexible to truly represent the One Power. This system has not been well tested, so I cannot speak to game balance, but I'll post any problems I encounter as we play our campaign. The system makes use of Ishamael's Weave Pool system, so I think him for that. I like it a lot and, without it, I could not have formulated this system. In the write-up, I also use two Weaves that I found online, but I have modified them so that they use my new system. Thank you to those of you who wrote the original weaves. I hope you all like the system, but please punch as many holes in it as you can. Thanks.

One Power Channeling System
By Philosopher Jack

New ability score: All Channelers have a new ability score called Power. Power is an overall measure of their potential with the one power. It is generated during character creation and may never be increased. The power may be decreased, however, through severing and restoration. To generate the Power ability score, roll 1D10. Player characters receive a bonus of +1 to the roll. In addition, characters who are deemed Ta’varen by their DM’s may also receive a +1 modifier. A power rating may never exceed 10. A character’s power rating represents the highest level weave that she may cast. For example, an Aes Sedai with a power rating of 7 can only cast 7th level weaves without the aid of an angreal, overchanneling, or by linking. A character may not cast higher level weaves than her class level limit allows regardless of her power level. Likewise, she may not overchannel above her power level, except though the use of angreal or linking. Power rating also determines how difficult a weave is to resist. The Difficulty Class of a saving throw is 10 + weave’s level + ˝ power rating (round up). An Aes Sedai with a power rating of 8 would have a saving throw DC of 16 when casting a 2nd level weave (10 + 4 + 2).

Weaves granted per level: Initiate weaves per level are determined using table 3-5 in the WOT manual. Wilder weaves are determined by using table 3-8. However, Ishamael’s Weave Pool system is used to determine weaves available per day. See text below for an explanation of the Weave Pool system (thanks Ishamael):

Ishamael’s Weave Pool System

The Weave Pool system functions in most ways identicle to the system already estabolished in the Wheel of Time Role Playing game produced by Wizards of the Coast. This system was designed to better simulate how the One Power function in the series of novels the game was based off of. Changes to the existing system are as follows:

The Slot Pool

All channeling characters have Weave Pool. The number of slots in the pool is determined by adding up all the slots granted under the Initiate’s and Wilder’s Weaves per day table. The value of each slot is as fallows:

0 lvl: ˝ slot (Round down.) 5th lvl: 5 slots
1st lvl: 1 slot 6th lvl: 6 slots
2nd lvl: 2 slots 7th lvl: 7 slots
3rd lvl: 3 slots 8th lvl: 8 slots
4th lvl: 4 slots 9th lvl: 9 slots

Example: Kale, a Wilder has three 0 level slots, two 1st level slots, and two 2nd level slots and one 3rd level slot. To determine his slot pool, he adds one slot from his 0 levels slots, two from his 1st level slots, four from his 2nd level slots and 3 from his 3rd level slot. He now has a slot pool of 10 weave slots. (1+2+4+3=10)

Casting of Weaves

Casting of weaves is done the same way as described in the original rules. If you want to cast a 4th level Fireball, you simply burn 4 weave slots. The 4 slots are deducted from the weave pool.

0 level weaves are handled differently. The channeler may make a Concentration check (DC:20) to attempt to weave the 0 level power at no cost. If he fails, he must spend 1 slot. You must have at least one slot in your pool to attempt to use a 0 level slot.

Overchanneling and Angreals

Overchanneling is different in that you do not have to be out of slots to attempt it. At any time, you may attempt to overchannel to get a higher level effect.

Example: You have a weave pool of 10. You want to cast a 4th level Fireball. You may spend 3 slots and attempt to overchannel. If successful, you cast the Fireball at 4th level and still have 7 weave slots in your pool.

Angreal and Sa’angreal are not changed. You simply get to add their level bonus to whatever your trying to weave.

Example: You have a +2 angreal and want to cast a 7th level weave. You need only use 5 slots. Additionally, you may also attempt to overchannel. This could possibly reduce the cost to 4-2 slots.

CAUTION:
This system potentially makes channeler classes much more versatile. It was created to more accuratly imitate the One Power as it was described in Robert Jordan’s novels and little attention was given to game balance. Use only if you are not overly concerned with the power level of the channeling classes in your campagn. Gamemasters are strongly encouraged to look over this system before letting players use it.

Bonus weaves:

Bonus weaves are no longer detemined using Primary Ability Stats. Instead, consult Table 1-1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Weaves and find the character’s power rating in the ”Modifier” column, ignoring the ”Score” column. This number indicates the number of bonus weaves available to the character. For example, if an Aes Sedai has a power rating of 4, you would read accross the +4 modifier column to find her bonus weaves. This may result in fewer bonus weaves than the original system, but with Ishamael’s Weave Pool system, channelers maintain their power and versatility.

New Feat

Overpower Weave

You can utilize more of your raw power to prevent your targets from resisting your weaves.
Benefit: You may add +1 to the DC of your weave, up to your maximum power level. For example, An Aes Sedai with a power of 6 would normally have a DC of 15 when casting a 2nd level weave (10 + 2 + 3). When using Overpower Weave, the DC is increase by one to 16.
Special: You may gain this feat multiple times as long as your DC modifier does not exceed your power level.

Modified Weaves:

The following are examples of new weaves (player created) modified to use the Power Rating system. Thanks to those who wrote these weaves.

Weave Deflection (Warding)
[Spirit] (Common)
Level: 3+
Casting time: See text
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./round)
Target: One weave
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving throw: Special
Weave resistance: No
This weave is used to deflect harmful weaves cast by other channelers. Only weaves that directly affect objects or people, such as Fireball, Shield or Cutting Lines of Fire may be deflected. Stationary weaves, such as Fiery Sword, Current or Wand of Fire may not be deflected. Weave deflection must be cast at a level equal or greater to the weave being deflected. To use this weave, an action must be held ready. When an opponent casts a weave you wish to deflect, make opposing concentration checks, where both channelers add their power rating. If you succeed, the weave will be deflected from its intended target. With a success of 10 or more, the weave can be directed to a different target at the deflecting character’s discretion. A success of 15 or more allows the deflecting character to retarget the weave back at the original caster. A failure means that the weave hits its intended target.

Cut Weave (Warding)
[Spirit] (Rare)
Level: See Text
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft./level)
Target: One weave
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Weave Resistance: No

This weave fashions a knife made of pure Spirit and attacks any weave it’s directed at, be they just forming, tied-off or held. The casting level of this weave must be higher than the weave it is used against. The weave does not need to be identified, but you must know the weave is being cast first. To cut a weave, make an opposing concentration check, where both channelers add their power level. A success instantly unravels or cuts a held or tied-off weave. If used as a ready action to sever a weave as it is being formed, the weave is not formed, but the weaving channeler still loses the appropriate Weave Points.
+2 Casting Levels: You may sever a weave of the opposing gender, if you know a weave is being formed.

From: Bellingham, WA | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
WizO_Autumn

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posted July 23, 2002 04:00 PM      Profile for WizO_Autumn   Email WizO_Autumn    Edit/Delete Post
Moved to the One Power discussion board

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RGaudreau
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posted July 23, 2002 08:10 PM      Profile for RGaudreau      Edit/Delete Post
The moderator said this was moving to the One Power board, but I didn't see it there, so I thought I'd post a couple of comments here.

First, I think I'd recommend changing the die roll a PC makes for the Power stat. I'd hate to be stuck with a Power rating of 2 if I wanted to play a character who could become a formidable channeler. Plus, the linear nature of the roll means there are just as many people with power 10 as there are with power 1. More, in fact, because some people get bonuses to the roll. You might go with something like 2d4+2 for PCs (to give a range from 4-10, with the average being 7) and 3d4-2 for NPCs (range is from 1-10, with the average being 5.5). Obviously, for signature NPCs, you can set their Power at whatever you like. [Smile]

Second, I'd consider using the PC's prime stat as part of the DC calculation for resisting weaves. Sure, more powerful weaves might be harder to resist, but so would *more skillfully woven* weaves, and that's ultimately what a high prime stat represents, superior skill with manipulating the weaves. I'm not sure that 10 + stat + weave level + 1/2 Power is right, 'cause then the DCs would be off the charts, but maybe 10 + 1/2 stat + 1/2 weave + 1/2 Power? I have no idea if that's comparable, but I still think the PC's stat should figure in somehow.

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Philosopher Jack
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posted July 23, 2002 08:20 PM      Profile for Philosopher Jack      Edit/Delete Post
RGaudreau,

Thank you for your response. I agree that a player who envisions their character as a powerful weaver would be disappointed with a low role. I'll give some thought as to how to fix this problem. A D8 might be more feasible for PC's, considering their bonuses.

I considered allowing the primary stat to modify saving throws, but I decided at the end to completely divorce the system from ability stats. After all, there are many examples of characters in the RJ novels who are excellent channelers, but who obviously lack wisdom or intelligence. As for experience being just as important as power with regard to channeling, I agree. However, I see the PC level as their measure of experience and skill with the OP, not their primary ability stat.

I'll massage the numbers on the power rating a bit and see if I can come up with something a bit more palatable. I may, using DM's discretion, allow a re-roll on the power rating if a player is unhappy with his result. After all, it's about playing the role, not the power. Thanks again for your inciteful comments.

Philosopher Jack

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Aggro - Thingy
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posted March 06, 2003 06:54 PM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
Holy Thread Resurection!

You could make a feat for adding more power levels, "Skilled Weave" could give a +1 or +2 to the power level, each number above 10 could make the weaves cost less to cast.

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SoemanSnowlocke
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posted March 09, 2003 09:32 PM      Profile for SoemanSnowlocke   Email SoemanSnowlocke    Edit/Delete Post
I was going to use the Slot Pool system for my campaign, and was trying it and liking it until I made a 10th level Aes Sedai NPC with 69 slots! Now that is a ton of Fireballs and other high powered weaves! I just don't think it is balanced enough, but your ideas do sound intersting for an alternate channeling system, Jack.

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Aggro - Thingy
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posted March 09, 2003 10:15 PM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by SoemanSnowlocke:
I was going to use the Slot Pool system for my campaign, and was trying it and liking it until I made a 10th level Aes Sedai NPC with 69 slots! Now that is a ton of Fireballs and other high powered weaves! I just don't think it is balanced enough, but your ideas do sound intersting for an alternate channeling system, Jack.

6d6+10 (16 - 46) 11 times with one 3d6+10
2d6+10 (2 - 22) 34 times

It really ain't that much. Also when thinking of NPC's you can always assume that they don't have their full slot pool going into a fight (think that they might have cast other weaves earlier in the day). Also, remember this is a "tenth level" Aes Sedai, that ain't exactly a novice eh? Also, with a reflex based save for 1/2 it isn't as over powering anymore.

You could balance it by making each weave cost an extra point I guess. But this system still beats the normal slot system, I mean how would it be possible for a level ten Aes Sedai to cast a fireball weave yet having been incapable to cast a simple "Heat" weave? This system I feel represents their "power" a lot better.

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SoemanSnowlocke
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posted March 09, 2003 11:43 PM      Profile for SoemanSnowlocke   Email SoemanSnowlocke    Edit/Delete Post
Oops, I didn't mean 10 lvl Aes Sedai. She was Initiate 5/Aes Sedai 5. But I do see your point, Aggro. Maybe I just didn't try it out long enough?

[ March 09, 2003, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: SoemanSnowlocke ]

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Aggro - Thingy
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posted March 10, 2003 01:11 PM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by SoemanSnowlocke:
Oops, I didn't mean 10 lvl Aes Sedai. She was Initiate 5/Aes Sedai 5. But I do see your point, Aggro. Maybe I just didn't try it out long enough?

Ahhh, I see the difference now. [Big Grin]

Try it out a bit, think of it this way when considering your characters: An Aes Sedai may very well be quite powerfull, but from the books it seems that they don't constantly bogart their strength purelly for battles, they use it in offhand matters like pouring tea and heating beverages. They use it for assessing a situation before acting. They use the power for many things not even related to direct combat.

Try it out a bit longer, I feel the slot pool system really represents a charcters raw "strength" in the One Power.

Also remember, these people wield the most powerfull force in existence (So far as we know), I would give them a wee bit of leeway on what they can and cannot do [Wink]

BTW: did you check out my "Rush" weave?

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Ma'caldazar
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posted March 10, 2003 11:54 PM      Profile for Ma'caldazar      Edit/Delete Post
why not roll power as all other stats 4d6 and take the tre best and then subtract 8 to give a number betwean 2 and 10
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posted March 11, 2003 11:32 AM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ma'caldazar:
why not roll power as all other stats 4d6 and take the tre best and then subtract 8 to give a number betwean 2 and 10

Because it would suck *** to make a male channeler and find that he can only cast 2nd level weaves? Ability points can't be raised very high and limiting an ability that gets better and stronger with practice would be kinda silly especially considering that characters become stronger in the one power much faster than they become stronger in other abilities.

EDIT: Whereas going by the current method with the slot pool system more accurately represents skill and power (the slot pool is power, the channeler level is skill).

[ March 11, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Aggro - Thingy ]

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SoemanSnowlocke
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posted March 11, 2003 10:44 PM      Profile for SoemanSnowlocke   Email SoemanSnowlocke    Edit/Delete Post
I think I will use it, or at least try it out a bit longer. Thanks for the advice [Smile] .

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JosephKell
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posted March 11, 2003 11:12 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
I have a problem with any system where the author says "This system is more powerful but more accurately reflects the novels." That is a unbias critique. Fact is no system will accurately reflect the novels.

The Chaos Mage would be a good way to do Channeling, but that is a different concept all together (it is basicly 4 types of spells, you build them and take a point of subdual for every 5 points in the DC if you make the DC or if you fail the DC 1 point of real damage for every 5 points, or if you botch it, get a one, you drop to -1 hp and take another step on The Path *shudder* you get a bonus to the check equal to your Chaos Mage level plus charisma modifier.)

But i happen to like the original system, it prevents players from converting all level 0's, 1st's, and 2nd's into high level weaves, which also makes the Overchannel ability stupid. Why risk being severed if you can just turn your 6 level 1 weaves into a level 6 weave?

This doesn't make channelers much more versatile. [NoNoNo] Channelers are versatile because they have a wizards' ability to know any spell (weave in this case) and the sorcerers' ability to spontaneously cast spells (weaves in this case)!

It makes them more uber and make any that TAKES a non-channeler class a fool if they play in a game with any channeling characters or NPC's.

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Ma'caldazar
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posted March 12, 2003 12:04 AM      Profile for Ma'caldazar      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Because it would suck *** to make a male channeler and find that he can only cast 2nd level weaves? Ability points can't be raised very high and limiting an ability that gets better and stronger with practice would be kinda silly especially considering that characters become stronger in the one power much faster than they become stronger in other abilities.
you didn't understod me i meant that you make it one of the orginal stat rolls then you could asign the highest to the one power.
for those not starting as chanelers or expres an idea to multiclass later make the GM roll a d10 and if he roll 10 make him seacretly roll a one power stat.

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posted March 12, 2003 08:59 AM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by SoemanSnowlocke:
I think I will use it, or at least try it out a bit longer. Thanks for the advice [Smile] .

[Bounce]

the collective rejoices!

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posted March 12, 2003 09:19 AM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ma'caldazar:
quote:
Because it would suck *** to make a male channeler and find that he can only cast 2nd level weaves? Ability points can't be raised very high and limiting an ability that gets better and stronger with practice would be kinda silly especially considering that characters become stronger in the one power much faster than they become stronger in other abilities.
you didn't understod me i meant that you make it one of the orginal stat rolls then you could asign the highest to the one power.
for those not starting as chanelers or expres an idea to multiclass later make the GM roll a d10 and if he roll 10 make him seacretly roll a one power stat.

But it still doesn't represent the channelers ability to grow sronger and more skilled through use and study. The current system (using wisdom and intelligence for the main scores) reflects skill when coupled with advancment in levels but doesn't really show "power", I mean, using the slot system and lets say you have used all your level 3 spots you can now cast blade of fire at 5th level but are too drained to cast it at a lower level..... [Dubious] Whereas the slot pool system still shows the concept of skill but also shows the concept of power and channeling it through a person, a level 5 weave costs 5, a level 1 costs 1, a level zero can cost zero lady luck smiles on you that day, etc.
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JosephKell
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posted March 12, 2003 01:25 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
The way it is now works for a game. The "new way" is a derivative of the Power Point system, but you neglect that Psionic Power Points are less than the sum of the spell level slots times quantitity.

You may have tested this method with channeler verse channeler, but what about channeler verse non-channeler? The Non-channeler will have their *** handed to him/her in a BIGGER sling. After a while a +1 level push is nothing because it is low DC concentration check and it continues to where a +2 push isn't much (Skill Emphasis (Concentration) +3, Wilder Overchannel +5, Lvl +3 ranks, Prestige Classes if any). Suddenly a weave level 6 fireball is level 4 or even 3 (if they have all the affinities). This destroys the Channeler's one weakness: they can be overtaxxed.

And being able to do a level 0 weave at concentration DC 20 means that a person with a +2 angreal can cast fireball an unlimited amount of times a day (in order to maintain, let alone acquire, any angreal, you have to be a high enough level to keep others from taking it from you), Level 0 weave (DC 20), +2 Angreal, heck, if they made a DC 20 check, they can make the DC 15 overchannel +1! so now you have a Level 3 fireball at will! This is hands down the best ability in the game, even if there there rampant Magic Flaming, Freezing, Shocking arrows (+1d6 of each type of elemental) because you don't even have to make a ranged touch attack! Or someone starts getting a bit close... Ward Against People. Fireball through it!

Why not use Mana or some other refills during the day idea? you basicly turned a rest-recharge system into mana points! Mana is for computer games because those are real time games. If a spellcaster had to wait a night to recast spells, they would suck! "Yeah, I killed everything here... up my spells are gone, better go back to town and sleep."

The rules are a representation of mechanics behind a screen:
Game Mechanics: Joseph channels a level 4 fireball at the trollocs. For (4d6 + 8 fire damage) 23 damage. Killing them.
What is said: Joseph concentrates and pulls strands of air, fire, and spirit. He winds them together into a red bead; Joseph sends it towards the charging trollocs and it explodes among them. The trollocs smoldered inside the burnt circle.

My main reason against it: It isn't needed and it unbalances an already skewed game.

And to those of you that use the weak arguement "Accuracy is more important than balance," any game needs to be as balanced as possible. Every loophole will be abused. Game Masters are important because they are (hopefully) unbiased mediaters that will bend or break rules to keep the game going. But WotC, and any other game company, can't publish games that are recklessly unbalanced or the game is no fun. All this "New One Power Channeling System" does is make PC Channelers more Uber, it removes their one built in deficiency, and one common deficiency. Channelers have a limited natural ability, overchanneling can extend it but they can only overchannel when they have no weave slots that can successfully do it (even if they use an angreal, they can't use a 1st level slot and a +2 angreal than overchannel +1 for a 4th level slot if they have a 2nd open). That is the built in deficiency. The common one is for players to play each round like the only one in the day. That is not a game flaw, that is a Game Master flaw to allow them to do this, as it too removes the built in defiency. The game is already Channeler driven! At level 2 a Wilder can use Fireball! And at level 3 they have 3rd level weave slots!

I think this board should be renamed "Wheel of Time, A.K.A. How to make a Channeler more Uber." This is why I avoid the Wheel of Time board, it is filled with "variants" that ruin a good game concept (and it actually does represent the novels a lot [excluding the plot line of prophicies of the dragon]!). People complaining about Wilder/Initiate multiclasses seem to come from people that used Initiates and don't want to take a feat and multiclass out. In fact the only thing in the game that doesn't make sense is Intellegence powering Intiate's channeling!

The funny thing is, that there wouldn't be any complaints about a "bad system" if it weren't for WotC putting this game out. Stop biting the hand that feeds you.

[ March 12, 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell ]

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From: California | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Aggro - Thingy
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posted March 12, 2003 02:40 PM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell:
The way it is now works for a game. The "new way" has actually bend put forth before, as a derivative of the Power Point system, but you neglect that Psionic Power Points are less than the sum of the spell level slots times quantitity.

You may have tested this method with channeler verse channeler, but what about channeler verse non-channeler? The Non-channeler will have their *** handed to him/her in a BIGGER sling. After a while a +1 level push is nothing because it is low DC concentration check and it continues to where a +2 push isn't much (Skill Emphasis (Concentration) +3, Wilder Overchannel +5, Lvl +3 ranks, Prestige Classes if any). Suddenly a weave level 6 fireball is level 4 or even 3 (if they have all the affinities). This destroys the Channeler's one weakness: they can be overtaxxed.

The rules are a representation of mechanics behind a screen:
Game Mechanics: Joseph channels a level 4 fireball at the trollocs. For (4d6 + 8 fire damage) 23 damage. Killing them.
What is said: Joseph concentrates and pulls strands of air, fire, and spirit. He winds them together into a red bead; Joseph sends it towards the charging trollocs and it explodes among them. The trollocs smoldered inside the burnt circle.

::Shrug:: the way I look at a it, if a weave drains 10 units of available units, then no matter what slots you have for what levels, it will still cost 10 units, you you can channel 5 10 units weaves then you have effectively 50 units at your disposal. The weave don't come from seperate limited sources do they? Is there a different source of power for level 1 weaves as compared to level 2 or level 5 weaves? ::Shrug:: Slot pool seems to solve this problem rather nicely.

Der! Don't you think someone who can harden air and toss about fire wouold have a wee bit of an edge on someone who can't? They can always be overtaxed, just so happens that at higher levels they are less taxed for the same weaves. Channelers are supposed to be balanced by other channelers, balancing by non-channelers can only be accomplished with groups of non-channelers. Basically, channelers are more powerful than non-channelers, this is a fact. WoT makes it perfectly clear that non-channelers are deathly afraid of channelers and even more-so of the male ones. I mean, come-on, they broke the world......... that has to count for something? Balefire anyone? why not just remove that weave because you can destroy anyone with it. Bottom line, Channelers are a class of their own, they are leaps and bounds more powerfull than non-channelers.

The slot pool system better represents a channelers abilities and better represents their "breaking point" where they just have no more left in them to continue. As such it is a better system for behind the scenes rules.

EDIT: Regarding mana

Why not? because there is no precedent for channelers being able to recharge on a whim without resting. This way if a channeler gets 4 hours of sleep he only rejuvenates 50% of his total slot pool.

[ March 12, 2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Aggro - Thingy ]

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JosephKell
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posted March 12, 2003 03:14 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
The slot pool system allows channelers to overchannel EVERY weave! That is like having "Weave Slot Cost Reduction"!!!!! Like having a built in angreal.

And how do you know that it "better" reflects the novels? The real world has game mechanics too you know, it is all just auto-calculated for you.

The only way to make it harder to save up points is if all the overchannel DC's went up by 10 or even 15! And even then. The game works great with weave slots. "If it aint broken, don't fix it." There is no justification for changing it. Heck, I would love to use a Wilder in D&D3! Channeling beats out magic any day.

Even if they added an armor channeling failure!!!! Overchanneling, spontaneous casting, ability to learn any weave and double bonus slots more than makes up for the Extra Affinities/Talents I must take, heck I would be happy stuck with just Fire (or Air) and Spirit! I would be more than a match for any wizard or sorcerer. Able to heal, kill, destroy, travel, defend, counterweave, trap... The only thing I couldn't do is buffing spells... but who needs them when I can just throw level 2 fireballs all day (concentration check DC 25: +5 Wilder, +3 Skill Emphasis (Concentration), +5 wisdom modifier, 11 ranks in Concentration = 24!)? Yes that is only 2d6 + channeler level, but it is basicly the Innate Spell-Like Ability feat in tome and blood (requires you to devote a spell slot 8 levels higher to it), but rather than use up an 10th level slot permenently, I just make a concentration check and hope I don't get a 1! Because the only way to fail at level 8, is if I botch (then I might be screwed), even a 2 will beat the DC! At level 8! Now imagine a Level 14 channeler (*cough* Rand *cough cough*) 6 levels higher.

And that is without using the weave pool!!

Channelers own already.

[ March 12, 2003, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell ]

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From: California | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Aggro - Thingy
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posted March 13, 2003 11:52 AM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell:
The slot pool system allows channelers to overchannel EVERY weave! That is like having "Weave Slot Cost Reduction"!!!!! Like having a built in angreal.

And how do you know that it "better" reflects the novels? The real world has game mechanics too you know, it is all just auto-calculated for you.

The only way to make it harder to save up points is if all the overchannel DC's went up by 10 or even 15! And even then. The game works great with weave slots. "If it aint broken, don't fix it." There is no justification for changing it. Heck, I would love to use a Wilder in D&D3! Channeling beats out magic any day.

Even if they added an armor channeling failure!!!! Overchanneling, spontaneous casting, ability to learn any weave and double bonus slots more than makes up for the Extra Affinities/Talents I must take, heck I would be happy stuck with just Fire (or Air) and Spirit! I would be more than a match for any wizard or sorcerer. Able to heal, kill, destroy, travel, defend, counterweave, trap... The only thing I couldn't do is buffing spells... but who needs them when I can just throw level 2 fireballs all day (concentration check DC 25: +5 Wilder, +3 Skill Emphasis (Concentration), +5 wisdom modifier, 11 ranks in Concentration = 24!)? Yes that is only 2d6 + channeler level, but it is basicly the Innate Spell-Like Ability feat in tome and blood (requires you to devote a spell slot 8 levels higher to it), but rather than use up an 10th level slot permenently, I just make a concentration check and hope I don't get a 1! Because the only way to fail at level 8, is if I botch (then I might be screwed), even a 2 will beat the DC! At level 8! Now imagine a Level 14 channeler (*cough* Rand *cough cough*) 6 levels higher.

And that is without using the weave pool!!

Channelers own already.

How does it better reflect the novels? Channelers CAN overchannel every single weave, but doing that comes with a risk. I suggest you review page 163 again, overchanneling with the system implies that they can attempt to overchannel for 2 reasons:

1. No more weave slots, this implies that in said "slot pool system" this will only occur when all point from the pool are expended or that you have inssuficient points for a weave.

2. Higher level weave, this makes the weave cost more and still carries the same risks as normal.

Therefore, I conclude that you idea of overchanneling is flawed.

I know that the real world has "game mechanics" and I also understand the idea of having a access to a source of power, imagine it like electricity, you have say 50 killowatts a day, does it matter if you meet that limit using light bulbs or arc welders? They both draw from the same source, they just cost different amounts, now would you thinkthat if you couldn't turn on a lightbulb, that you would still be able to use an arc welder? ofcourse not. If you can use an arc welder you obviously have enough energy left for a few light bulbs.

once again ::Shrug::

At level 2 you don't have many fireballs and at level 10+ you deserve to be high and mighty.

I believe that doing it this way will better represent tha ability to channel, I'm not concerned with balance as an GM worth his salt will balance out high powered characters with high powered NPCs.

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aleshandre
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posted March 13, 2003 12:23 PM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
Hey, JK, remember this is from a guy who in response to negative comments about his weave to enhance physical attributes; said, "I give a rat's ass about what the books say".
some people just want it their way no matter what...Then there are munchkins and powergamers. [Wink]

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From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
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posted March 13, 2003 03:33 PM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by aleshandre:
Hey, JK, remember this is from a guy who in response to negative comments about his weave to enhance physical attributes; said, "I give a rat's ass about what the books say".
some people just want it their way no matter what...Then there are munchkins and powergamers. [Wink]

[Razz]

Actually my thoughts extend less to the book and more to just the general idea of access to power.

Why would I use the books in my discussion this time? cause last time the entire arguement was "That isn't in teh books!!!!". I'm not a powergamer or a munchkin, I just think the slot system sucks *** for this character class.

[ March 13, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Aggro - Thingy ]

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JosephKell
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posted March 13, 2003 05:10 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
Actually you can't overchannel every weave slot. You can only overchannel if you don't have a slot free of that level or a higher level slot that can be overchanneled less to get the same effect. I know the overchanneling rules.

Example: Level 9 Wilder has access to 0 to 6 slot weaves. 6/4/3/3/2/1/1 (does not include bonus slots)

The Wilder wants to channel a level 6 fireball, the wilder MUST use his/her sixth level slot first to channel the weave. After using up his or her only 6th level weave slot, to channel another level 6 fireball, he or she may only use a 5th level slot overchanneled once (once as in +1 level overchannel, +2 would be twice). At no time may they overchannel a slot that isn't their highest.

[ March 14, 2003, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell ]

--------------------
Instant Message me @ JonERPG on the AIMer

Visit AielManSpear

-If you cast Meteor Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells...
-If your character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook...
-If you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four charges left...
-If the God of Destiny asks you what will have next...
...you might be a Munchkin.

From: California | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
CSBone
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posted March 15, 2003 06:01 AM      Profile for CSBone      Edit/Delete Post
Philosopher Jack, this is a neat idea, but there needs to be as serious limiter of some variety to slow channelers down. A good gamemaster and a good gaming group can be that limiter, but I've seen spell point systems go bad in a hurry and a half once a certain level of points is reached.

Not being a wet blanket kind of guy, I have two suggestions.

Sugestion One: Increase the point cost of casting Weaves. The Psi Handbook idea of the next odd for cost isn't bad. This would allow a channeler to burly through 0th level Weaves on a DC 20 Concentration Check. Fail it and they cost 1 point. 1st level Weaves cost 1. 2nd level Weaves cost 3. 3rd , 5 4th, 7. 5th, 9. 6th 11. 7th, 13. 8th, 15. 9th, 17...and so on. This makes the cost jump up in a hurry but let someone beef around the lower level stuff without much problem. There is a small breakdown in the midrange, just because the effectiveness of certain spells is high in comparison with the power of the weave, but my second sugestion might fix that.

Suggestion Two: The maximum number of points you can burn on a spell without over-channeling is your channeler level plus your Int bonus. If you are out of points you can't overchannel at all. If they want extra points after they are out they can use Int and Wis as points. Points lost in this manner heal at 1 Attribute point per day of either one or the other. This puts some hard stops on the abilities of channelers using your system but gives some serious versatility in the low range. Also it gives an overchanneling mechanic with repercussions that make the attempt something characters will think twice about...after all, Balefire should not be something even a high level channeler can contemplate without risk.

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As always, your mileage may vary.

From: Lancaster, New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Aggro - Thingy
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posted March 15, 2003 12:34 PM      Profile for Aggro - Thingy   Email Aggro - Thingy    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell:
Actually you can't overchannel every weave slot. You can only overchannel if you don't have a slot free of that level or a higher level slot that can be overchanneled less to get the same effect. I know the overchanneling rules.

Example: Level 9 Wilder has access to 0 to 6 slot weaves. 6/4/3/3/2/1/1 (does not include bonus slots)

The Wilder wants to channel a level 6 fireball, the wilder MUST use his/her sixth level slot first to channel the weave. After using up his or her only 6th level weave slot, to channel another level 6 fireball, he or she may only use a 5th level slot overchanneled once (once as in +1 level overchannel, +2 would be twice). At no time may they overchannel a slot that isn't their highest.

Which means that when using the slot pool system you actually are prevented from overchanneling to an even greater degree that that of the regualar slot system.
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