Author
|
Topic: Forsaken
Checklist as of Crossroads ********POSSIBLE
SPOILERS******** |
Knightrain
Member Member # 58537
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posted February 05, 2003 11:39 AM
Hmmmm, what
are all those little Forsakens up to?
We know that
three of them are "Permanently" dead: Be'lal - BFed by
Morraine in tDR Rahvin - BFed by Rand in tFoH Asmodean -
died under mysterious circumstances in tFoH (BFed by Graendel
is my theory). RJ has repeatedly assured us that Asmo is
"roadkill".
Two of them are dead, but not necessarily
Pemanently dead: Sammael - sucked up by Mashadar at Shadar
Logoth in CoT (I think). RJ has said that Sammy is toast and
the DO and Shadar Logoth evils aren't really compatable... but
who knows. Aginor - killed by Rand (kinda) in tEotW.
Resurrected as one of the "'Gars" (Aran or Osan, I can't
remember... the male one). Hung out in the Black Tower as
Dashiva. Killed AGAIN at the "Taint Cleansing Party" (how
embarrasing). We'll see if the DO gives another body to this
loser.
Alive and at large, as far as we
know: Ishamael - Primary villan in the first three books
until Rand killed him. Brought back as Moridin, even more evil
than before. Seems to be "collecting" mindtrapped female
Forsaken (more on this below). Demandred - not Taim after
all. Wherebouts unknown. Balthamel - killed by Somshesta in
tEotW. Resurrected as the female 'Gar and sent to Salidar
posing as Halima. Causing and curing Egwene's headaches. Prime
suspect for killing the Cuendillar makers (as if there's any
doubt) and ratting Egwene out to the Tower during the "Turning
the Chain to Cuendillar" party. Graendel - keeping a low
profile. Not entirely sure where she's hiding at the
moment. Semirhage - The popular belief is that she is
Tuon's Truthsayer, Anath. If so, she got left behind in Ebou
Dar. Bet she's not happy about that. Lanfear - knocked
through doorway ter'angreal by Morraine in tFoH. Held by the
"'finn". Died OS and brought back as short, EXTREMELY busty
Cyndene. Mindtrapped by Moridin. Moghedian - more of an
annoyance then an actual threat throughout the series.
"Violated" by Shaidar Haran. Mindtrapped by
Moridin. Messana - pulling strings in the White Tower.
There is every reason to believe that she was recently
"violated" by Shaidar Haran. I suspect that the next book will
reveal that she is now mintrapped by Moridin as
well.
If Messana winds up mintrapped it establishes a
pattern. Is Moridin mindtrapping just the female Forsaken...
or is he looking to mindtrap ALL of them and is only starting
with the females?
-------------------- "First, the
blue suit with the 'S'... don't want to see it. Second, no
flying. Don't want to see him fly. Last, he has to fight a
giant spider in the third act." -John Peters to Kevin
Smith, guidelines for a "Superman" script-
"I've a
great respect for brains... I rather wish I had some myself."
-W.S. Gilbert-
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Whitewinds
Member Member # 124732
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posted February 05, 2003 12:44 PM
Moghedien
was pulled into the implosion of Shadar Logoth. Whether she's
alive of dead is unknown at this point.
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Dave Shramek
Member Member # 107902
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posted February 05, 2003 02:25 PM
Three
things...
1. Possible spoilers? 2. I think
the idea is Graendel is the one in Arad Doman causing the
chaos with the king. 3. Where's the quote from your sig. I
love the stuff Kevin Smith says against the Superman
producers...
-------------------- As always, I cower
in ignorance, awaiting a response.
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finnmckool
Member Member # 112643
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posted February 05, 2003 03:59 PM
"Also, the
flying's gotta go. And I want Braniac to try and find him in
his fortress of solitude. But I want him to have a dog. And a
talking monkey. And he has to fight Superman's guards. Polar
bears." Dang, that's too funny.
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Knightrain
Member Member # 58537
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posted February 05, 2003 04:54 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where's
the quote from your sig. I love the stuff Kevin Smith says
against the Superman
producers... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's
from the "An Evening with Kevin Smith" DVD (I assume that it's
on the video as well, if there is one). It's absolutely
hilarious. I highly recommend
it.
-------------------- "First, the blue suit with
the 'S'... don't want to see it. Second, no flying. Don't want
to see him fly. Last, he has to fight a giant spider in the
third act." -John Peters to Kevin Smith, guidelines for a
"Superman" script-
"I've a great respect for brains...
I rather wish I had some myself." -W.S. Gilbert-
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Knightrain
Member Member # 58537
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posted February 05, 2003 05:32 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote
by Whitewinds:
Moghedien was pulled into the implosion
of Shadar Logoth. Whether she's alive of dead is unknown at
this
point. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I
either missed that part or forgot about it (been a while since
I read WH). All I remember is one of the defenders, after the
fact, thinking about "... one dead renegade (an extra-crispy
Dashivan'gar) and several singed Forsaken..."
I would
imagine that would put her and Sammy into the same level of
doubt. If the Shadar Logoth taint cancels out the Dark One
taint can the Dark One bring back servants killed in or by
Shadar Logoth?
Someone on another thread suggested that
the incresingly frequent ghost sightings might be connected to
the destruction of Shadar Logoth. If so, might we see
Ghost-Moggy and Ghost-Sammy floating around? Who
knows?
This just occured to me.... Who thinks that
Suroth's invitation to Rand to meet The Daughter of the Nine
Moons might really have been "Anath's" idea? Either way... I
sense that there may be some sad bracelets in Rand's
future.
-------------------- "First, the blue suit
with the 'S'... don't want to see it. Second, no flying. Don't
want to see him fly. Last, he has to fight a giant spider in
the third act." -John Peters to Kevin Smith, guidelines for
a "Superman" script-
"I've a great respect for
brains... I rather wish I had some myself." -W.S.
Gilbert-
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finnmckool
Member Member # 112643
|
posted February 05, 2003 07:56 PM
Oh! That's
on DVD? My buddies heard him tell that story live here in KY.
Then he took everyone out to go see Changing Lanes.
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
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posted February 06, 2003 08:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Knightrain: This just
occured to me.... Who thinks that Suroth's invitation to
Rand to meet The Daughter of the Nine Moons might really
have been "Anath's" idea? Either way... I sense that there
may be some sad bracelets in Rand's future.
Even if he does get to wear the male adam collar, I
feel sorry for the suldam that is given the leash. According
to Mogy, as time passes, the male gains more strength in the
circle created by that adam, until he has control. ![[ROFL]](Wizards_Com Boards Forsaken Checklist as of Crossroads POSSIBLE SPOILERS (1)_fichiers/roflmao.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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Dave Shramek
Member Member # 107902
|
posted February 06, 2003 09:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by
aleshandre: [QUOTE]Even if he does get to wear
the male adam collar, I feel sorry for the suldam that is
given the leash. According to Mogy, as time passes, the male
gains more strength in the circle created by that adam,
until he has control.
Oooo I don't remember that quote. That'd be really
funny, but I'd hate to have to sit through two and a half
books of Rand's torture at the hands of the a'dam and
the sul'dam all the while getting snippets of his slow
progression towards power. All the damane stuff bothers
me (and rightly so). Really bad if you add Callandor
into the mix.
-------------------- As always, I
cower in ignorance, awaiting a response.
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Austin | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP:
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted February 06, 2003 10:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Shramek: That'd
be really funny, but I'd hate to have to sit through two and
a half books of Rand's torture at the hands of the
a'dam and the sul'dam all the while getting
snippets of his slow progression towards power. All the
damane stuff bothers me (and rightly so). Really bad
if you add Callandor into the mix.
Heh, that's if the sul'dam can even make him do
anything. Something tells me that a sul'dam trying to make the
Dragon Reborn (as "hard" as he is) try to do something he
doesn't want to do is like trying to uproot an oak tree with
her bare hands. Aes Sedai can generally make Warders do what
they want, but remember when Alanna bonded him? She couldn't
budge him. And that was what, four, five books ago? Rand's a
lot stronger than that now.
It is unfortunate that more
wasn't done in book 10. I'll be interested to look back (when
I'm 50 and the series is finally done) and see if CoT was the
"weak link" it seems to be at this
point.
-------------------- "Suravye ninto manshima
taishite."
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Knightrain
Member Member # 58537
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posted February 06, 2003 12:29 PM
I seem to
recall that the male a'dam has two bracelets. Would this not
suggest that it requires TWO sul'dam to work properly? Either
way, I agree that any sul'dam(s) that put the collar on Rand
are in for a bit of a shock when they try to control
him.
Not to mention the fact that rand is currently
bonded to not one... not two... not three... but FOUR women
who will INSTANTLY know something is up. Three of the four can
channel and two of those three are uber-powerful and have
access to Traveling (don't know if Alanna can Travel). Min
and, to a lesser extent, Elayne have seen how the Seanchan
"train" their damane. Methinks that the sul'dams will not have
a whole lot of time to work on rand before help
arrives.
-------------------- "First, the blue suit
with the 'S'... don't want to see it. Second, no flying. Don't
want to see him fly. Last, he has to fight a giant spider in
the third act." -John Peters to Kevin Smith, guidelines for
a "Superman" script-
"I've a great respect for
brains... I rather wish I had some myself." -W.S.
Gilbert-
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 06, 2003 12:40 PM
The male
A'dam requires one sul'dam, if two are used then the
progression to when the male has to agree to letting them out
(taking off the bracelets) slows down. (The Sul'dam are always
in control... after a while the male can keep from them
unlinking, but it is more of each sul'dam having a limit or
the male learning each one... /7 Getting to know you.../7 kind
of thing, at least I believe so. And having two people to get
to know at once is
harder)
-------------------- Instant Message me @
JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
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Dave Shramek
Member Member # 107902
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posted February 06, 2003 02:43 PM
Maybe one
of the braclets is for the male channeler and that's why he
loses a hand.
Regardless, in thinking about it, I don't
think that RJ would have put the male a'dam into the
story, had it survive the attempt to drop it into the ocean,
and have it fall into the hands of Suroth just to let it drop.
It WILL come up, and perhaps if Anath is there with Suroth,
especially if Suroth is a Darkfriend, we'll see her learn how
to use it and Rand will actually be in serious trouble for a
little while.
-------------------- As always, I
cower in ignorance, awaiting a response.
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Austin | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP:
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
|
posted February 06, 2003 02:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Shramek: <snip the
sad bracelets> It WILL come up, and perhaps if
Anath is there with Suroth, especially if Suroth is a
Darkfriend, we'll see her learn how to use it and Rand will
actually be in serious trouble for a little
while.
Suroth is definitely a Darkfriend. We've known that
since tGH. She's not a channeler, though, and so couldn't be
one of the two women using the male
a'dam.
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
|
posted February 07, 2003 07:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray
Skwid: Suroth is definitely a Darkfriend. We've
known that since tGH. She's not a channeler, though, and so
couldn't be one of the two women using the male
a'dam.
Does Suroth have 2 Black Ajah sisters under her
control?
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Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted February 07, 2003 07:30 AM
Frankly,
she doesn't need them. All she needs are a couple of
sul'dam...which we already know she
has.
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
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Dave Shramek
Member Member # 107902
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posted February 07, 2003 09:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray
Skwid: [QUOTE]Suroth is definitely a Darkfriend.
We've known that since tGH. She's not a channeler, though,
and so couldn't be one of the two women using the male
a'dam.
Yeah, I thought so. I'ts been a while. And yes, I
forgot about the channeler thing for a second. I don't know
why that would have happend.
Anyway, my main point is that it will
come up.
-------------------- As always, I cower in
ignorance, awaiting a response.
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
|
posted February 07, 2003 09:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray
Skwid: Frankly, she doesn't need them. All she
needs are a couple of sul'dam...which we already know she
has.
True, but how many of her sul'dam are, to her
knowledge, darkfriends completely subservient to her? Bringing
Rand under control would only require sul'dam. Bringing Rand
under the Shadows control, which has always been Ishamael's
goal, would require either darkfriend sul'dam or black ajah,
and (IIRC) we know she has black ajah.
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Dave Shramek
Member Member # 107902
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posted February 07, 2003 09:42 AM
Is she
aware of the sul'dam can learn to channel bombshell? If so,
she could make the leap to having Black Ajah control Rand,
otherwise, it'd be the only thing saving
him.
-------------------- As always, I cower in
ignorance, awaiting a response.
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted February 07, 2003 10:33 AM
She has a
cllue to it since she knew that Renna, and Seta were held by
the adam (a fact that she tried to hide). It would still be
speculation to assume that she knows the secret; though not a
large one. We do know that thanks to Egeanin, Tuon knows; and
she is a trained suldam (though being trained and actually
acting as one are completely different). Tuon is likely to
hold that secret deep until she can be sure of the effect that
it will have on the Empire. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Forsaken Checklist as of Crossroads POSSIBLE SPOILERS (1)_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted February 07, 2003 12:24 PM
Don't
forget that thirteen Myrddraal and thirteen channelers can
forcibly turn a person to the Shadow....and Rand, under
the control of the a'dam, would be
helpless.
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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Cail Loricson
Member Member # 122122
|
posted February 11, 2003 01:13 PM
The only
time that anyone ever tried to control a male channeler with
the a'dam was back when it was still tainted, and someone
already said that that experiment did not end to
prettily...besides, I think that the two bracelets means two
sul'dam, because only one and the taint would spread too fast
but having two means it would take longer to diffuse between
them.
As for Rand being in trouble and getting
rescued, at the end of LoC I think he proved how "helpless" he
was, even when he can't channel he is still an
uber-bad***...plus I would like to see if the a'dam could stop
both Rand and Lews Therin, because it doesnt block you off
from the source as effectively as being shielded, and there
are essentially two "essences" inside Rand...so how would the
a'dam react to two channelers in one
necklace...?
-------------------- There is no
difference between a Bad Man doing Bad Things, and a Good Man
doing Nothing.
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted February 12, 2003 05:29 AM
OOOHHHhh,
nice theory.....I guess we'll just have to
RAFO.
-------------------- Stupidity is not a crime,
so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me. I've never
heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He
was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and
start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a
nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people,
you know to watch your back! My web page, new &
improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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Whitewinds
Member Member # 124732
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posted February 14, 2003 12:51 AM
I've
thought about this, and discussed it before with a friend of
mine, and we came to a conclusion aboutthe male
a'dam-analogue: You *must* have two women, each one
braceleted, to use it effectively. If only one woman is
wearing the bracelets, guess what? She's lost control, because
in a one-man-one-woman link, the woman must initiate the link,
but the man must control it. One of the male Forsaken
reminds one of the female Forsaken of this, and we see this
very clearly in the Cleansing, when Nynaeve couldn't do
anything, even release the Source, while linked to Rand.
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted February 14, 2003 05:45 AM
Absolutely
correct, which is why the sad bracelets have two braceletes
and one collar and normal a'dam have one. This would allow a
female channeler to shortcut the normal link of one man and
one woman with another "third" woman in the group by wearing
both bracelets and forcing the
link.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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