Author
|
Topic: Using a
Gateway as a Weapon |
Matwin Luthair
Al'Ra Member Member
# 121887
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posted January 15, 2003 07:39 AM
After
discussing this topic in length with other hard core jordan
fans, we came to the conclusion that it would not be terribly
hard for a high level character to use this efficiently. Keep
in mind we are talking a Lvl. 15 character or higher. First
the character must have a high lvl in this type of weave, now
for the meat of the question. In the books Jordan describes
the level of concentration needed as, the further the distance
the more time it takes to get right and also if you have no
knowledge of the place you are opening a gateway to the time
needed to make a gateway would be great indeed. Also the
larger the gateway, the more time and power needed to open
it. Now, if your high lvl. character practiced studiously
in his/her down time, to open a very small gateway, maybe a
foot in length, and the gateway leads to a place five feet
away, then it should not take too much time or power to do
this. The more practiced the character becomes the quicker he
can do this, i dont mean to say tha this could be used
effectively in melee combat but aimed at charging enemies or
to attack them from behind. Also, this is a little harder to
accomplish, if you stabbed at me with your sword i could,
feasibly, open a gateway in front of your target and have the
tip of your sword reappear right beside your head, stabbing
your-self dead. like i said that would be very hard to do..any
comments... ![[Devilish]](Wizards_Com Boards Using a Gateway as a Weapon_fichiers/diablo.gif)
-------------------- Be the change you
wish to see in this world. - Mahatma Gandhi
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Lubbock | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP:
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Pikachaos
Member Member # 122464
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posted January 15, 2003 08:14 AM
Although
feasible, I think that the amount of control you would need
over the appearance of the gateway makes actual use in a
combat situation very impractical. If using it against a
stationary foe, however, it might be a great tactic indeed!
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Matwin Luthair
Al'Ra Member Member
# 121887
|
posted January 15, 2003 09:26 AM
how about
using a gateway as a trap?
As the Trolloc horde begins
its horrid, blood-curdling charge, Matwin prepares for the
weave. The approaching Trollocs snarl and drool in
anticipation of the slaughter of young Matwin and his
companions. "Ready yourselves!" Matwin breathes to his allies.
Unsheathing swords and nocking arrows, his five companions
prepare for the inevitable battle. "Stand your ground, dont
falter!" Matwin yells over the approaching thunder of hoof and
claw. At the last instant a Gateway five spans tall and the
same length in width, rotates open slicing the boar headed
trolloc in the lead in half. Over half of the Trolloc warparty
stumbles through the gateway before realizing what happens.
The gateway winks out behind them leaving them trapped
blinking in confusion at their new surroundings, the Aiel
Waste. And as the gateway closed it severed arms and heads of
three more trollocs who happened to be only halfway through
the gateway. Ripping his Heron Mark blade from its jeweled
scabbard, Matwin begins to work his blade in defense of his
life. His companions laugh wildly as they too meet the small
remnants of the once mighty trolloc horde.
maybe this
is a better use for a gateway.....what do you think? ![[Devilish]](Wizards_Com Boards Using a Gateway as a Weapon_fichiers/diablo.gif)
-------------------- Be the change you
wish to see in this world. - Mahatma Gandhi
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Lubbock | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP:
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted January 15, 2003 04:26 PM
Ask
yourselves this: "Do you care where the Gateway leads?" If it
leads to the place between places, they fall forever! You
don't need to know your location if you just open it to
another place.
-------------------- Instant Message
me @ JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
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posted January 15, 2003 05:19 PM
The Gateway
as a weapon concept is good in theory, however; in practice
would be best as a ranged attack rather than a defensive or
offensive attack in melee. The concept of a gateway as a means
of reducing the number of enemy is an exelent idea and can
have very practical applications in actual combat as
described, however against shadowspawn, opening a skimming
portal would be an even better idea, or opening a gateway over
the world-sea, so that they fall in the depths and drown. The
idea of using the gateway in this way can also provide a way
to remove a large oncoming army without killing them, such as
opening the gateway into a large pit suitable for a temporary
prison.
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
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Dortamur
Member Member # 63897
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posted January 15, 2003 06:24 PM
Can a
gateway be opened horizontally? ie; so said charging army
doesn't meet the gateway face on - but edge on.
This is
something I cringe at every time someone uses a gateway in the
book - the edges. Forget about opening the gateway; what if
someone walks into the edge? Even face on, wouldn't half your
body go through the gateway, and the other half not, neatly
slicing them up?
Even if hitting the edge of a gateway
face on hit resistance - it's still a razor-sharp edge between
one place and another.
How many horses lost a hoof as
they misstepped into a gateway? How many Aiel lost spear tips
or elbows as they leapt through too close to an edge?
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted January 15, 2003 06:32 PM
I know the
question regarding if Gateways can be made horizontal has been
asked several times but here is the diffinitive
answer
[From the aol.com Q-and-A session with RJ, 27
June, 1996]:
Question: Can gateways be created at
non-right angles to the ground? If not, why not? If yes, why
haven't we seen them?
RJ: They can be, and you haven't
seen it because there's been no need to do it. And also some
of the people who can make gateways don't know how to do
it.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted January 15, 2003 06:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dortamur: Can a
gateway be opened horizontally? ie; so said charging army
doesn't meet the gateway face on - but edge on.
This
is something I cringe at every time someone uses a gateway
in the book - the edges. Forget about opening the gateway;
what if someone walks into the edge? Even face on, wouldn't
half your body go through the gateway, and the other half
not, neatly slicing them up?
Even if hitting the edge
of a gateway face on hit resistance - it's still a
razor-sharp edge between one place and another.
How
many horses lost a hoof as they misstepped into a gateway?
How many Aiel lost spear tips or elbows as they leapt
through too close to an edge?
most gateways are opened down to a little below the
ground, this is why you hear of the tell-tale sign of a
gateway being a fine slice on the
ground.
-------------------- Instant Message me @
JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
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Dortamur
Member Member # 63897
|
posted January 15, 2003 09:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell: most
gateways are opened down to a little below the ground, this
is why you hear of the tell-tale sign of a gateway being a
fine slice on the ground.
Rand's "travel rooms" must have their floor ripped to
shreds by now then, given how often gateways are formed
there.
Wouldn't it be a bit rude to gate into a
majestic palace, slicing up the floor in the process? (I
suppose it's more polite than slicing up a servant... )
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
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posted January 16, 2003 10:51 AM
Well like
in Book 10, they generally set aside a part of a
courtyard for gates coming in. Opening the gateway a little
below the surface is only a good idea if you have what can
only be called a flood of people. Those in the front would be
pushed through so if they had to step over it wouldn't be so
good. But if you are going in a small group and can take your
time (relatively) you could open it an inch above the
ground.
-------------------- Instant Message me @
JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted January 16, 2003 11:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dortamur: Can a
gateway be opened horizontally? ie; so said charging army
doesn't meet the gateway face on - but edge
on.
I don't think it's happened because it's a waste of
power. Remember those little razor-sharp ribbons that Asmodean
set up for Rand to decapitate himself on when Rand was chasing
him in Rhuidean? Simple to make and doesn't take as much
power...set those up against a charging army and you're in
business.
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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Tam al'Moff
Member Member # 79189
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posted January 17, 2003 12:07 AM
I thought
it was just a tied off 'Tool of Air'
weave.
-------------------- If it aint broke don't
fix it.
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Friend of the
Dork Member Member
# 58798
|
posted January 17, 2003 06:28 AM
Damn, a
player of mine wanted to know if he could make angled
gateways. He tried, and i told him he wasn't able to. I wasn't
sure what diabolical uses he thought about, but i have already
been too adaptable when it comes to weaves in the game. A
gateway is made for Travelling. Any other use it could have,
you could do better with other
weaves.
-------------------- Darkfriend, Darkfriend,
what'ya gonna do? a what'ya gonna do when they come for
you....
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted January 17, 2003 11:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Friend of the Dork: A
gateway is made for Travelling. Any other use it could have,
you could do better with other weaves.
That's my thought. Gateways were used for traveling and
nothing else. When one Forsaken was visiting Graendal (I
forget who), s/he made a gateway in a spot where one of
Graendal's servants was standing. The weave sliced the servant
in two. That servant was not trying to get
away. The only other instances of a gateway slicing someone
was when it was closing on the Shaido Aiel. I would not allow
gateways to be used for that purpose in battle, but again,
that's just my take.
And yes, those ribbons could
(IMHO) easily be created by Tool of
Air.
-------------------- "Suravye ninto manshima
taishite."
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Matwin Luthair
Al'Ra Member Member
# 121887
|
posted January 22, 2003 10:24 AM
Gateways
were used for traveling and nothing else. When one Forsaken
was visiting Graendal (I forget who), s/he made a gateway in a
spot where one of Graendal's servants was standing. The weave
sliced the servant in two. That servant was not trying to get
away. The only other instances of a gateway slicing someone
was when it was closing on the Shaido Aiel. I would not allow
gateways to be used for that purpose in battle, but again,
that's just my take.--posted by
heron_marked_blade -------------------------------------------------
what
about using a gateway as a trap? like in my little story up
there?
As the Trolloc horde begins its horrid,
blood-curdling charge, Matwin prepares for the weave. The
approaching Trollocs snarl and drool in anticipation of the
slaughter of young Matwin and his companions. "Ready
yourselves!" Matwin breathes to his allies. Unsheathing swords
and nocking arrows, his five companions prepare for the
inevitable battle. "Stand your ground, dont falter!" Matwin
yells over the approaching thunder of hoof and claw. At the
last instant a Gateway five spans tall and the same length in
width, rotates open slicing the boar headed trolloc in the
lead in half. Over half of the Trolloc warparty stumbles
through the gateway before realizing what happens. The gateway
winks out behind them leaving them trapped blinking in
confusion at their new surroundings, the Aiel Waste. And as
the gateway closed it severed arms and heads of three more
trollocs who happened to be only halfway through the gateway.
Ripping his Heron Mark blade from its jeweled scabbard, Matwin
begins to work his blade in defense of his life. His
companions laugh wildly as they too meet the small remnants of
the once mighty trolloc horde.
maybe this is a better
use for a gateway.....what do you think?
![[Devilish]](Wizards_Com Boards Using a Gateway as a Weapon_fichiers/diablo.gif)
-------------------- Be the change you
wish to see in this world. - Mahatma Gandhi
From:
Lubbock | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP:
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted January 22, 2003 11:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Matwin Luthair
Al'Ra: what about using a gateway as a trap? like
in my little story up there? <snip>
I don't see why it wouldn't work. You'd have to work
with your GM to figure out specifics (size of gateway, # of
<NPCs> who enter, etc.), but in the right situation it
might work well. I would give the Trollocs a Reflex save
(perhaps modified by a Spot check to notice the difference in
terrain) equal to the DC of the weave (10 + weave level + WIS
mod) to avoid the
gateway.
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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kilthmal
Member Member # 117646
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posted January 25, 2003 04:10 PM
Heh, what
about opening up a gateway UNDERNEATH a gholam? This hinges on
the air in the middle of a gateway is a weave, but wouldn't
that be dandy? And what happens if the weave doesn't melt
until he's a little bit into it?
Kilthmal
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Merclaar
Member Member # 67223
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posted January 27, 2003 09:52 PM
Those
ribbons where IMHO of Earth (and maybe fire), because Rand use
Fire and Earth to destroy
them.
-------------------- cu
-- Merclaar
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted January 28, 2003 05:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Merclaar: Those
ribbons where IMHO of Earth (and maybe fire), because Rand
use Fire and Earth to destroy them.
Do channelers have to use the same elements to cut a
weave or destroy a trap as the original elements used in a
weave or a trap?
I thought it went in the traditional
cycle: air feeds fire, which nourishes earth, which supports
water, which assists air; and goes in opposites when
cancelling out: air and earth negate, water and fire
negate.
I never really thought about it, though, so
that's just my assumption. How does it work in the books? Is
Fire always used to cut or negate something? Or is this topic
even relevant?
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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Friend of the
Dork Member Member
# 58798
|
posted January 28, 2003 05:52 AM
As far as i
know, Men can fight fire with fire, women have to use water to
smother it.
In my game, however when someone tries to
counter a weave i let them use one lower slot when they have
all the affinities of the weave being
countered.
-------------------- Darkfriend,
Darkfriend, what'ya gonna do? a what'ya gonna do when they
come for you....
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Daniel Holm
Member Member # 85627
|
posted January 28, 2003 08:30 AM
Moiraine in
TEOTW, when Egwene complained that men were stronger in the
"stronger" of the Five Powers: 'Moiraine laughed. "Is that
what you think, child? Is there a stone so hard that wind and
water cannot wear it away, a fire so strong that water cannot
quench it or wind snuff it
out?"'
-------------------- "Sa souvraya niende
misain ye - I am lost in my own mind." "Dovie'andi
se tovia sagain - It's time to roll the dice." "Sene
sovya caba'donde ain dovienya - Luck is a horse to ride like
any other." - Matrim Cauthon, General of the Band of
the Red Hand, Shen an Calhar
Save the Core Paladin
Foundation Member 0000037
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
|
posted January 28, 2003 09:20 AM
quote:
As far as i know, Men can fight fire with
fire, women have to use water to smother it.
I would like to point out that just
because women aren't naturally inclined towards fire or earth
does not mean they cannot use them to good effect.
I think Egwene could give a male channeler a
run for his money when it comes to Earth ability.
And
Damer could give a female channeler a run for hers when it
comes to
water/air.
-------------------- felicia AKA Freya
Culadin
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