Author
|
Topic: Ter'angreal
(Wells) |
lostone
Member Member # 135656
|
posted May 21, 2003 05:59 PM
Keep in
mind I haven't read Crossroads yet (should start it next
week):
Has anyone come up with any rules on Wells? Do
they let the user cast so many levels of weaves in a stedding
type area? Can someone who has a well use all their normal
weave slots and then use the well without overchanneling? Or
does it just allow them to use so many weaves inside a
stedding?
Also, the Eye of the World is essentially a
Well, could Rand refill it much as Nynaeve describes refilling
hers? (embrace the power through it)
From:
Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003 |
IP: Logged
| |
Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
|
posted May 21, 2003 07:53 PM
have you
taken a look at either Call of the Horn or the netbook UtDB. You can find a version of the well
ter'angreal done by Eosin the Red and of course a bunch of
other stuff by members of these boards. The new netbook is
being worked on as we speak and will probably contain a lot of
very good info as well (considering the staff it almost
couldn't be good).
-------------------- Only two
things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 -
1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
IP: Logged
| |
Matai Gaidin
Member Member # 68319
|
posted May 21, 2003 10:30 PM
I had this
discussion about the Eye of the World recently with another
GM. The Eye is not a well like Nynaeve's or Cadsuane's.
It is a pool of pure saidin without the taint. After
Rand used it all up, it was gone, never to return. It took 100
powerful male and female Aes Sedai to create it, and they all
died from the effort. So I'd say that eliminates even the
Dragon Reborn from refilling it by himself. Now that
doesn't mean you can't follow through with whatever idea you
had for the Eye. It just means you've got to create your own
kind of ter'angreal and there's no reason it can't be huge or
tied to a specific location. Wells allow to channel under
pretty much any condition, as I understand it. In
stedding, when your shielded, and obviously in Far
Madding.
-------------------- "I think Matai's
dead!" "Good, I need the rest," Matai replied.
From:
Modesto, California | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
| |
lostone
Member Member # 135656
|
posted May 26, 2003 07:59 PM
Wells let
you channel when you're shielded??? If that's in crossroads
say yes and leave it at that, if it's in a previous book where
I completely missed it, please state where
From:
Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003 |
IP: Logged
| |
Daikatana
Member Member # 96056
|
posted May 27, 2003 02:23 AM
you get
that info when Rand & co are in Far Madding in Winter's
Heart
-------------------- "Son, when you
participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or
lose... it's how drunk you get" Homer Simpson
From:
Swe | Registered: Jul 2002 | IP: Logged
| |
Sharn_Penndroen Member Member
# 82230
|
posted May 27, 2003 04:28 AM
Are they
Shielded in Far Madding, or merely under the effect of
the Guardian and in a
"dead-zone"?
-------------------- A man who will not
die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying
The
Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last
embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral
Ceremony
From:
Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
| |
aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted May 27, 2003 05:47 AM
Far Madding
is far different than being shielded in the true sense of the
word, because you can't even sense the true source
there (you can sense it while shielded, but not touch
it). We have no examples of a person with a well channeling
while shielded. Until we get some, I would say no. A well
provides a source of the power where there is none, it does
not connect you to the source while you are cut off from it.
Shielding is in essence a temporary severing from the power
(it's nearly the same weave, lacking only the razor edge - see
the Tanchico duel between Nyn and
Mogy).
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
| |
Matai Gaidin
Member Member # 68319
|
posted May 27, 2003 02:25 PM
You are
correct that we haven't seen anybody channel while shielded.
We also have never seen anyone shielded while in possession of
a well. We know that a well stores a small amount of the OP
and the channeler can draw on that even while in a stedding or
in Far Madding. One of the Aes Sedai describes Far Madding's
Guardian as duplicating the effects of a stedding, the
important ones, anyway (referring to preventing channelers
from touching the Source). In my mind, that means to treat Far
Madding as if it were a stedding as far as channelers are
concerned. I think we agree on that point. I believe that
someone who is shielded should still be able to use a well
because the shield cuts the channeler off from the Source, but
not from the well. The ability to channel is innate. The magic
(One Power) is not. It just exists and some people can draw on
that energy and shape it to their will. That means that they
have the ability and only lack a source of magical energy. My
opinion is that Shielding someone cuts them off from the One
Power, their main magical energy source. But a well is like a
battery and can be an energy source, too, but only to the
person wearing it. That's why I believe you can use a well
while Shielded, in a stedding, or in Far Madding. There are no
book examples for the Shielded part, I inferred it based on
what the books say, though.
-------------------- "I
think Matai's dead!" "Good, I need the rest," Matai
replied.
From:
Modesto, California | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
| |
LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
|
posted May 27, 2003 02:43 PM
Regarding
channeling using wells while Shielded... it all depends on how
you envision these things working (or more importantly, how RJ
envisions these things working).
An simple analogy to
reflect how I think these things work.
A channeler is
someone who can reach out and flip a light switch to turn on a
light. If a channeler is in a stedding, there is no power
going to the light switch so no matter how you try to flip the
switch the light will never come on. A shielded channeler is
someone trying to flip a light switch that has been jammed.
There is power, but you can't turn on the lights unless you
can unjam the switch. A Well is like a backup battery. It
provides power, but it doesn't fix the switch.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
| |
lostone
Member Member # 135656
|
posted May 27, 2003 07:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Matai Gaidin: I
believe that someone who is shielded should still be able to
use a well because the shield cuts the channeler off from
the Source, but not from the well. The ability to channel is
innate. The magic (One Power) is not. It just exists and
some people can draw on that energy and shape it to their
will. That means that they have the ability and only lack a
source of magical energy. My opinion is that Shielding
someone cuts them off from the One Power, their main magical
energy source. But a well is like a battery and can be an
energy source, too, but only to the person wearing
it.
I have to disagree with the way this is worded, because
this makes it sound like someone who has been
severed/stilled/gentled could use a well to channel (possibly
not fill it up again though when it is empty). Although, I
wonder. I cannot remember all the definitions of severing as
"known" by the characters in the novels...is it simply cutting
someone off from the one power permenantly (at least until
Nynaeve discovers how to heal it)? If that is the case a well
could allow them to channel, just like when they are in a
stedding or far madding
From:
Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003 |
IP: Logged
| |
Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
|
posted May 27, 2003 10:02 PM
I don't
know about that, because if you are severed you cannot touch
what is there...you are unable even though you can sense
it.
With being shielded you can still touch the source
if you could break through the block or in this case (with a
well) if you can draw from a different source. (which is what
I believe, may not be right though).
One breaks
something within you so you can't use the power anymore (but
you can still sense it, unlike being burned out), while the
other just blocks you from getting there, so you go to another
source, albight smaller.
-------------------- Only
two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and
I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 -
1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
IP: Logged
| |
Whitewinds
Member Member # 124732
|
posted May 28, 2003 10:43 AM
Let's try
it this way: The One Power is drawn from the True Source,
which is extradimensional. Shielding, severing, the Far
Madding Guardian, and being in a stedding all prevent a person
from reaching the Source. A well, however, holds saidar (or
saidin) in this dimesion, allowing a channeler to use it
without having to reach the Source. So, assuming that neither
shielding nor severing removes the actual ability to
manipulate the Power, only blocks or removes the ability to
reach the Source and draw the Power in the first place, then
I'd say that a severed channeler could use a well. This
supposition is supported by Moghedien's observed ability to
unravel a tied-off shield, which requires that the ability to
manipulate saidar be seperate from the ability to draw it. Not
to mention Rand's doing something similar to his shield when
he was being kept in a box.
Registered:
Jan 2003 | IP: Logged
| |
Fyatuk
Member Member # 133738
|
posted May 28, 2003 12:46 PM
Here's my
opinions on the matter. First, a well stores a set amount of
One Power (number of weave levels) and can be refilled by
sacrificing that number of weaves (AKA you use them one day,
but get an effect at some other time).
Obviously you
can use a well inside Far Madding and therefore inside a
Stedding. I believe you an also use it while shielded (since
it is inevitable refered to as being blocked from the source).
Actually I think its even mentioned in WH when Nynaeve is
discussing her well that it could be, but I don't
remember.
If you are Severed/Stilled/Gentled you could
not use a well. If you think of it as an electric circuit,
then being severed is like missing a fuse. The circuit is not
complete and can't be until the fuse is replaced.
I'm
personally one of those that believe that being burned out
cannot be healed because its more akin to burning out the
entire circuit, not just the fuse.
BTW Whitewinds...
Trying to break a shield is not really manipulating the One
Power. It's like trying to push your way through a wall, you
aren't unravelling it neatly, you're trying to blow it
apart.
-------------------- Fyatuk
Loth Tai'Shin Weaver of Dreams
From:
San Antonio Texas | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged
| |
Whitewinds
Member Member # 124732
|
posted May 28, 2003 07:55 PM
True, you
can break a shield by force, but I'm quite sure that Moghedien
unravelled a shield she was under.
Registered:
Jan 2003 | IP: Logged
| |
lostone
Member Member # 135656
|
posted June 04, 2003 07:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Matai Gaidin: I had
this discussion about the Eye of the World recently with
another GM. The Eye is not a well like Nynaeve's or
Cadsuane's. It is a pool of pure saidin without the
taint. After Rand used it all up, it was gone, never to
return. It took 100 powerful male and female Aes Sedai to
create it, and they all died from the effort. So I'd say
that eliminates even the Dragon Reborn from refilling it by
himself.
Not quite. I'm going from memory here, so correct me if
I'm wrong. The Eye of the World was created by 100 powerful
male and female Aes Sedai and filled with the pure essence of
saidin without the taint, yes. But it took that many to create
it so it would not have the taint. Where did they put
the taint? They created the Blight, that is why it is so
different from anywhere else in the world. Now, since Rand has
cleansed the taint, the Eye of the World should simply be a
well like any other, it's simply a ter'angreal that holds the
essence of the one power (although a ton more than normal
wells, hence it's size). What do other people think of this
angle?
From:
Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003 |
IP: Logged
| |
Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
|
posted June 04, 2003 10:22 PM
I think
that you are spot on about the Eye being a abnormally large
well, albight its usefullness is somewhat limited as it cannot
be moved. The number of channelers needed was to both create
it and to fill it with untainted saidin. Hence why so
many of them died in the process (ask Rand, its not fun
playing with large amounts of tainted
saidin.
But I believe that the reason for the
blight has a lot more to do with Shuyol Ghul (spelling?) than
with a large well.
-------------------- Only two
things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 -
1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
IP: Logged
| |
The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
|
posted June 05, 2003 07:27 AM
Isn't it
enough that RJ has said at signings that the Eye was not a
well?
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
From:
The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
IP: Logged
| |
Matai Gaidin
Member Member # 68319
|
posted June 05, 2003 03:52 PM
... and
that the BBoBA says the Eye of the World is gone
now?
-------------------- "I think Matai's
dead!" "Good, I need the rest," Matai replied.
From:
Modesto, California | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
| |
lostone
Member Member # 135656
|
posted June 09, 2003 05:38 PM
BBoBa?
From:
Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003 |
IP: Logged
| |
The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
|
posted June 10, 2003 10:48 AM
The Big
Book of Bad Art, a.k.a. The Big White Book of Bad Art, a.k.a.
TWoRJtWoT, or The World of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of
Time.
HTH, HAND! ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Ter'angreal (Wells)_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
From:
The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
IP: Logged
| | |