Author
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Topic:
Overchanneling |
Wanlorn
Fryegrazce Member Member
# 105714
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posted September 18, 2002 02:45 AM
Im new to
this board so this may have been explained, but i was unable
to find it. It seems to me that basically the overchanneling
rules are unbalanced. If you took a wilder(female) and gave
her an 18 Con (while unlikely, not immpossible), took 4 ranks
in concentration, took skill emphasis conentration, and the
feat disciplined (which may or may not stack with skill
emphasis), you would have a +18 to your concentration check.
That means you would only have a 5% chance of failure if you
wanted an extra 1st level weave, or if you wanted to boost a
weave by one level. At next level you gain another rank in
conectration and now you can cast an unlimited number of first
level weaves with no failure, and all your regular slots are
cast at one level higher.
This seems a little
overpowering to me. My GM agreed and added a complicated
subdual damage penalty system to overchanneling with my help.
I won't complain about this because i haven't read the novels,
i'm not the GM, and i kinda agree with him. My real beef is
that it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have undying
faith in the rules balancers and WotC, but i find it hard to
believe that they missed it. So is it just me that finds
something wrong with this or has it been discussed more. Is
there something i'm missing that makes this balanced, or did
they just goof up? I am thankful for any insight. ![[Smile]](Wizards_Com Boards Overchanneling_fichiers/smile.gif)
-------------------- "I'm sorry Lisa, was
that your mayonnaise?"
From:
Houston | Registered: Sep 2002 | IP:
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted September 18, 2002 08:02 AM
Is it
balanced?
Well, balanced compaired to what and how do
we define balanced?
Are channelers balanced with
D&D spellcasters? No.
Are they balanced with other
WoT characters? I don't know. We haven't had a lot of PC
channelers in our campaign. However those that we have had
have not dominated the game with their abilities.
The
one channeling adversary our party has faced, was defeated. I
don't think his ability to overchannel made him more difficult
to defeat than his level indicated.
Yes, channelers can
potentially cast many more weaves of higher levels than
D&D spellcasters can. However, I haven't experienced that
to do a problem.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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DanausMantrose
Member Member # 50531
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posted September 18, 2002 08:06 AM
IF you are
too worried about it, one thing you can always include are
critical failures/successes. No matter what their
Concentration bonus is, they have to roll the d20. If they
roll a 1, then they automatically fail no matter what their
bonus is.
While this one instance (rolling a 1 on a
d20) seems like it still makes such a channeler overpowered,
consider this: In the books some channelers are simply
stronger than others. Do you think a strong channeler like
Rand would have trouble popping out a simple level 1 weave?
Even when he was just starting out, he was strong enough to go
way beyond such simple tricks. A channeler strong enough to do
this doesn't have a tremendous advantage. Just remember, as
GM: There is always a bigger fish.
From:
Michigan | Registered: Nov 2001 |
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theSaj
Member Member # 96041
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posted September 18, 2002 08:10 AM
Um,
truthfully, I don't see that a big deal...overchannelling is
done often in the book. And some have an inherent nack for
it.
The person you described would be a strong
channeler, however, you just described a LOT of character
building into a strong focus...
An 18 placed in
CONSTITUTION, feats and skills used to build up concentration.
All this is at the expense of OTHER areas. So I see it a very
good character base actually. And in truth, over-channelling
does not make a channeler THAT much more powerful than they
are. It brings them up one level....an angreal does the same.
You basically created a character with a built in +1 angreal.
It's not very abusive...
I have a D&D character who
almost automatically succeeds at ALL ride checks. It's her
character, it's part of character....not role-play it, give
reasons. Nynevae, in fact probably would fit this type of
design. She is very powerful, only channels when angry, and
very likely almost always channels at a +1 overchannel because
she's angry.
-------------------- "To Die is to Live
No More!"
From:
New Haven, Connecticut | Registered: Jul 2002
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Grayswandir_Blade Member Member
# 92933
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posted September 18, 2002 06:52 PM
Speaking
from the perspective of a player of a channeler in a party
where five out of seven characters are channelers, I can
answer one thing: channelers are overpowered. Such has been
repeated many times on various threads on this board, and I
agree. Mostly because of AoA/HA, but that's beside the
point.
The point is, as has also been mentioned, that
they're supposed to be overpowered. It's the inherent
within the world. There's a big built-in check: people don't
like channelers, especially male. And so continues the
debate... (gotta love that
Cthulu)
-------------------- "We laugh in the face
of danger, just before it hits us and knocks us out" -
Lysander. :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E:
:88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E:
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:88E:
Registered:
Jul 2002 | IP: Logged
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
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posted September 18, 2002 09:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LuciusT: Are
channelers balanced with D&D spellcasters? No.
...
Yes, channelers can potentially cast many
more weaves of higher levels than D&D spellcasters can.
However, I haven't experienced that to do a
problem.
On the other hand, no channeler can even contemplate
doing something on the order of a Wish or a
Miracle, a mid-level wizard has access to
mind-controlling magic that's better than Graendal on her best
day, and a mid-level cleric has no difficulty raising the dead
and healing powers beyond Nynaeve on her best
day.
-------------------- Dave Rothgery Picking
nits since 1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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RocPhoenix
Member Member # 105620
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posted September 18, 2002 10:17 PM
Well, being
Wanlorn's GM, i have a little bit of insight into the
situation. The bonus I have on him is that, like most of you,
i have read the novels dozens of times. And, in all of these,
when someone overchannels, there is a physical penalty, all
the way to the end of WH when Rand and Nynaeve collapse from
sheer exhaustion, or when all of the 13 in the circle for
healing the weather were physicaly tired. Hence, the subdual
damage stuff. It is a bit over complicated, but it makes
sense, and keeps channelers that have a high concentration
check from just blasting the top off of the palace at 2nd
level. Wanlorn is a pretty sneaky PC and will find any
loop-hole in the game (ie. Bryan in KoDT). I agree that
channeler are supposed to be the strongest in the game, as per
the WoT world, but too much power too early makes it
ridiculous to have any other support characters, right? This
is something we are both still a little unsure on. Any other
thoughts?
Registered:
Sep 2002 | IP: Logged
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Merclaar
Member Member # 67223
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posted September 18, 2002 10:38 PM
A
suggestion:
Let everybody start in an nonchanneler
class and let them freely multiclass into wilder (if they
want). So you could have a party full of channelers and a
mixed
party...
cu
-------------------- cu
-- Merclaar
Registered:
Feb 2002 | IP: Logged
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted September 18, 2002 11:03 PM
I have two
wilders and one initiate in my gaming group. One wilder is
male and suffers from overchanneling by gaining a madness
point every time he does. One thing though, a channeler must
first exhaust his weaves of that level (if he has any) before
he can overchannel them. Also there are some pretty formidable
penalties to failing to overchannel, especially if you use
critical successes and failures (20's and 1's). Channeling
above your highest level weave requires Concentration checks
of 20 -30 and the penalties for failing the Fort save are
dangerous.
If you wanted to make Overchanneling harder
just add the Weave level to the Concentration check DC. The
penalties for failing the fortutude save at the lower
difficulties simulate very well the extreme fatigue felt by
overchanneling.
-------------------- Only two things
are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 -
1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
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Aan'allein,last of Malkier Member Member
# 93112
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posted September 19, 2002 01:28 PM
It seems to
me that channelers should always pay a penalty when
overchanneling , wether they succeed or fail at casting the
weave. See for instance in the 1st book , Moiraine cast
only 2 weaves on trollocs hunters ( earth quake & wall of
fire) but certainly overchannel because of the spells
level.She's exhausted right after and needs Nynaeve's
healing. I think a "fatigue table" should be the right way
to limit overchanneling by increasing the next overchanneling
difficulty and adding fatique point or subdual damage. I'm
not able to design such a table, but would like to see one
from some of you before starting my 1st game as GM. Would
you mind sharing your own , RocPhoenix
?
-------------------- "The seven towers are
broken,and Malkier is dead...I am a warder, sworn to the
Flame of Tar Valon, and I am bound into the blight"
From:
France - Toulouse | Registered: Jul 2002
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Melriken
Member Member # 48882
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posted September 19, 2002 01:57 PM
Read the
last paragraph of the Overchannaling rules...
you cant
overchannal if you could cast that weave without
overchannaling... thus if a high level character has one 5th
level slot left, and wants to cast a 1st level healing
weave... well that means either you burn that 5th level slot,
or you dont cast the weave...
thus a character who can
overchannal +1 weave level at will, can ONLY do so to cast
weaves above his or her normal maximum (for a second level
character that means 2nd level weaves) untell all the highest
level slots are gone, then you can overchannal the next lower
level...
also you ALWAYS use your highest level weave
slots to overchannal
thus your character could weave
1st level weaves all day, but once she had used all her normal
1st level slots she couldnt overchannal 2nd level weaves very
easy, and couldn't get any 3rd level slots at all...
frequently you are better off holding onto your higher level
slots, thus you dont want to overchannal, because that would
leave you without the ability to cast high level weaves when
you need them...
the ability is much weaker than it
looks due to that last paragraph always remember: Play by
the rules or dont complain about
balance...
-------------------- The prior post is in
no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of
the author. Read at your own risk.
Registered:
Nov 2001 | IP: Logged
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