my profile | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Wizards.Com Boards   » Wheel of Time   » Overchanneling

   
Author Topic: Overchanneling
Wanlorn Fryegrazce
Member
Member # 105714


posted September 18, 2002 02:45 AM      Profile for Wanlorn Fryegrazce      Edit/Delete Post
Im new to this board so this may have been explained, but i was unable to find it. It seems to me that basically the overchanneling rules are unbalanced. If you took a wilder(female) and gave her an 18 Con (while unlikely, not immpossible), took 4 ranks in concentration, took skill emphasis conentration, and the feat disciplined (which may or may not stack with skill emphasis), you would have a +18 to your concentration check. That means you would only have a 5% chance of failure if you wanted an extra 1st level weave, or if you wanted to boost a weave by one level. At next level you gain another rank in conectration and now you can cast an unlimited number of first level weaves with no failure, and all your regular slots are cast at one level higher.

This seems a little overpowering to me. My GM agreed and added a complicated subdual damage penalty system to overchanneling with my help. I won't complain about this because i haven't read the novels, i'm not the GM, and i kinda agree with him. My real beef is that it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have undying faith in the rules balancers and WotC, but i find it hard to believe that they missed it. So is it just me that finds something wrong with this or has it been discussed more. Is there something i'm missing that makes this balanced, or did they just goof up? I am thankful for any insight. [Smile]

--------------------
"I'm sorry Lisa, was that your mayonnaise?"

From: Houston | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
LuciusT
Member
Member # 4474


posted September 18, 2002 08:02 AM      Profile for LuciusT      Edit/Delete Post
Is it balanced?

Well, balanced compaired to what and how do we define balanced?

Are channelers balanced with D&D spellcasters? No.

Are they balanced with other WoT characters? I don't know. We haven't had a lot of PC channelers in our campaign. However those that we have had have not dominated the game with their abilities.

The one channeling adversary our party has faced, was defeated. I don't think his ability to overchannel made him more difficult to defeat than his level indicated.

Yes, channelers can potentially cast many more weaves of higher levels than D&D spellcasters can. However, I haven't experienced that to do a problem.

From: Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
DanausMantrose
Member
Member # 50531


posted September 18, 2002 08:06 AM      Profile for DanausMantrose      Edit/Delete Post
IF you are too worried about it, one thing you can always include are critical failures/successes. No matter what their Concentration bonus is, they have to roll the d20. If they roll a 1, then they automatically fail no matter what their bonus is.

While this one instance (rolling a 1 on a d20) seems like it still makes such a channeler overpowered, consider this: In the books some channelers are simply stronger than others. Do you think a strong channeler like Rand would have trouble popping out a simple level 1 weave? Even when he was just starting out, he was strong enough to go way beyond such simple tricks. A channeler strong enough to do this doesn't have a tremendous advantage. Just remember, as GM: There is always a bigger fish. [Wink]

From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
theSaj
Member
Member # 96041



posted September 18, 2002 08:10 AM      Profile for theSaj   Email theSaj    Edit/Delete Post
Um, truthfully, I don't see that a big deal...overchannelling is done often in the book. And some have an inherent nack for it.

The person you described would be a strong channeler, however, you just described a LOT of character building into a strong focus...

An 18 placed in CONSTITUTION, feats and skills used to build up concentration. All this is at the expense of OTHER areas. So I see it a very good character base actually. And in truth, over-channelling does not make a channeler THAT much more powerful than they are. It brings them up one level....an angreal does the same. You basically created a character with a built in +1 angreal. It's not very abusive...

I have a D&D character who almost automatically succeeds at ALL ride checks. It's her character, it's part of character....not role-play it, give reasons. Nynevae, in fact probably would fit this type of design. She is very powerful, only channels when angry, and very likely almost always channels at a +1 overchannel because she's angry.

--------------------
"To Die is to Live No More!"

From: New Haven, Connecticut | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted September 18, 2002 10:30 AM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
A Crown of Swords was out five years ago. Nynaeve can channel whenever she wants.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Grayswandir_Blade
Member
Member # 92933



posted September 18, 2002 06:52 PM      Profile for Grayswandir_Blade   Email Grayswandir_Blade    Edit/Delete Post
Speaking from the perspective of a player of a channeler in a party where five out of seven characters are channelers, I can answer one thing: channelers are overpowered. Such has been repeated many times on various threads on this board, and I agree. [Smile] Mostly because of AoA/HA, but that's beside the point.

The point is, as has also been mentioned, that they're supposed to be overpowered. It's the inherent within the world. There's a big built-in check: people don't like channelers, especially male. And so continues the debate... [Cthulhu] (gotta love that Cthulu)

--------------------
"We laugh in the face of danger, just before it hits us and knocks us out" - Lysander.
:88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E: :88E:

Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
Member
Member # 4490


posted September 18, 2002 09:08 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by LuciusT:
Are channelers balanced with D&D spellcasters? No.

...

Yes, channelers can potentially cast many more weaves of higher levels than D&D spellcasters can. However, I haven't experienced that to do a problem.

On the other hand, no channeler can even contemplate doing something on the order of a Wish or a Miracle, a mid-level wizard has access to mind-controlling magic that's better than Graendal on her best day, and a mid-level cleric has no difficulty raising the dead and healing powers beyond Nynaeve on her best day.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
RocPhoenix
Member
Member # 105620



posted September 18, 2002 10:17 PM      Profile for RocPhoenix   Email RocPhoenix    Edit/Delete Post
Well, being Wanlorn's GM, i have a little bit of insight into the situation. The bonus I have on him is that, like most of you, i have read the novels dozens of times. And, in all of these, when someone overchannels, there is a physical penalty, all the way to the end of WH when Rand and Nynaeve collapse from sheer exhaustion, or when all of the 13 in the circle for healing the weather were physicaly tired. Hence, the subdual damage stuff. It is a bit over complicated, but it makes sense, and keeps channelers that have a high concentration check from just blasting the top off of the palace at 2nd level. Wanlorn is a pretty sneaky PC and will find any loop-hole in the game (ie. Bryan in KoDT). I agree that channeler are supposed to be the strongest in the game, as per the WoT world, but too much power too early makes it ridiculous to have any other support characters, right? This is something we are both still a little unsure on. Any other thoughts?
Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Merclaar
Member
Member # 67223



posted September 18, 2002 10:38 PM      Profile for Merclaar      Edit/Delete Post
A suggestion:

Let everybody start in an nonchanneler class and let them freely multiclass into wilder (if they want).
So you could have a party full of channelers and a mixed party...

cu

--------------------
cu

--
Merclaar

Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
Member
Member # 70903



posted September 18, 2002 11:03 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
I have two wilders and one initiate in my gaming group. One wilder is male and suffers from overchanneling by gaining a madness point every time he does. One thing though, a channeler must first exhaust his weaves of that level (if he has any) before he can overchannel them. Also there are some pretty formidable penalties to failing to overchannel, especially if you use critical successes and failures (20's and 1's). Channeling above your highest level weave requires Concentration checks of 20 -30 and the penalties for failing the Fort save are dangerous.

If you wanted to make Overchanneling harder just add the Weave level to the Concentration check DC. The penalties for failing the fortutude save at the lower difficulties simulate very well the extreme fatigue felt by overchanneling.

--------------------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Aan'allein,last of Malkier
Member
Member # 93112



posted September 19, 2002 01:28 PM      Profile for Aan'allein,last of Malkier      Edit/Delete Post
It seems to me that channelers should always pay a penalty when overchanneling , wether they succeed or fail at casting the weave.
See for instance in the 1st book , Moiraine cast only 2 weaves on trollocs hunters ( earth quake & wall of fire) but certainly overchannel because of the spells level.She's exhausted right after and needs Nynaeve's healing.
I think a "fatigue table" should be the right way to limit overchanneling by increasing the next overchanneling difficulty and adding fatique point or subdual damage.
I'm not able to design such a table, but would like to see one from some of you before starting my 1st game as GM.
Would you mind sharing your own , RocPhoenix ?

--------------------
"The seven towers are broken,and
Malkier is dead...I am a warder, sworn to the Flame of Tar Valon, and I am bound into the blight"

From: France - Toulouse | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Melriken
Member
Member # 48882



posted September 19, 2002 01:57 PM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
Read the last paragraph of the Overchannaling rules...

you cant overchannal if you could cast that weave without overchannaling... thus if a high level character has one 5th level slot left, and wants to cast a 1st level healing weave... well that means either you burn that 5th level slot, or you dont cast the weave...

thus a character who can overchannal +1 weave level at will, can ONLY do so to cast weaves above his or her normal maximum (for a second level character that means 2nd level weaves) untell all the highest level slots are gone, then you can overchannal the next lower level...

also you ALWAYS use your highest level weave slots to overchannal

thus your character could weave 1st level weaves all day, but once she had used all her normal 1st level slots she couldnt overchannal 2nd level weaves very easy, and couldn't get any 3rd level slots at all... frequently you are better off holding onto your higher level slots, thus you dont want to overchannal, because that would leave you without the ability to cast high level weaves when you need them...

the ability is much weaker than it looks due to that last paragraph
always remember: Play by the rules or dont complain about balance...

--------------------
The prior post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.

Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged


All times are Pacific Time  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | http://www.wizards.com/ | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin BoardTM 6.2.0

Shop Games Books Magazines Stores Events Company Worldwide Community