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Author Topic: Can Asha'man bond?
masterkorgin
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posted November 10, 2002 10:58 AM      Profile for masterkorgin      Edit/Delete Post
Hello all. I would first like to thank the people that helped me with the Inventing weaves theory. Works great thus far and saturday session was a success. My question however is CAn Asha'man bond people? I don't recall this happening off the top of my head and was wondering in game terms if this is possible?

Thanks in advance.

Master k.

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Shadowkiller
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posted November 10, 2002 11:37 AM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
Well, Logain "Bonds with a Kiss" in the books. I don't know if its the same type of bond as I cant remember whether or not they describe all the same ideals. But it happens.

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Heron_Marked_Blade
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posted November 10, 2002 11:44 AM      Profile for Heron_Marked_Blade      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, it is a very similar bond, a little more Compulsion involved than the Aes Sedai bond and I'm pretty sure they don't Sense Shadowspawn, share energy, etc.

Characteristics of the Asha'man bond:
- can sense what each other is feeling, in general
- can sense the location of the other
- bonded (Aes Sedai) cannot disobey the bonder (Logain)

Anything else?

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"Suravye ninto manshima taishite."

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Keras Silverblade
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posted November 10, 2002 11:44 AM      Profile for Keras Silverblade      Edit/Delete Post
If I recall correctly, the Asha'man in the books do use a variation of bonding to keep captured Aes Sedai under control.

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Moridin00
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posted November 11, 2002 06:45 AM      Profile for Moridin00      Edit/Delete Post
Aes Sedai can compel their warders to obey them using their 'normal' bond.

I'm sure the Ash'aman one is the same.

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Freya
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posted November 11, 2002 07:13 AM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Keras Silverblade:
If I recall correctly, the Asha'man in the books do use a variation of bonding to keep captured Aes Sedai under control.

hmm, if I recall correctly, the Ashaman bonding weave was 'figured out' by the married Ashaman as a way to stay 'in contact' with their wives, not as a way to handle Aes Sedai. After that, it began being used to 'handle' captured Aes Sedai.

and yeah, both Aes Sedai and Ashaman bonds allow some measure of compulsion on the bondee, but seems to be more prevelent in the Ashaman version. Either they just use it more, or the weave is actually different slightly from the Aes Sedai version. (personally, I think it's slightly different. Both weaves were created for different purposes so them having different outcomes is not surprising.)

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felicia
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masterkorgin
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posted November 11, 2002 10:21 AM      Profile for masterkorgin      Edit/Delete Post
Can Asha'man bond MALEs? That is what I really meant.
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Shadowkiller
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posted November 11, 2002 10:31 AM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
probably depends mostly on how much the Ashaman likes kissing males

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masterkorgin
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posted November 11, 2002 10:48 AM      Profile for masterkorgin      Edit/Delete Post
LOL. HEHE. Not so sure about that one. There are two asha'man that want to bond two others in my group. Although this is a strange request I was wondering if it's possible
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aleshandre
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posted November 11, 2002 11:01 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
Theoreticaly, it is probably possible, but I wouldn't allow it in my campaign... leaves too much of a mess to clean up if things go wrong with the guys. [Eek!] [Dropjaw]

--------------------
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Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
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Heron_Marked_Blade
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posted November 11, 2002 11:03 AM      Profile for Heron_Marked_Blade      Edit/Delete Post
I don't know how the Asha'man bond would work -- was a kiss PART of the bond, or was that just Logain's personal touch?

If you want to base it off the Aes Sedai weave, Elayne bonded Birgitte, so I don't see why a man couldn't bond a man. Granted, you might have to deal with some instinctual double-takes since there was NEVER any record of M/M bondings, and I'm sure this wouldn't fit in some people's schemata... be careful they don't end up labelled as "unnatural," although it may create a response similar to Ailil Riatin and Shalon's "pillow-friendship" (WH); not normal, but more of an embarrassment in certain locales than in others.

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"Suravye ninto manshima taishite."

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Melriken
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posted November 11, 2002 12:21 PM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade:
I don't know how the Asha'man bond would work -- was a kiss PART of the bond, or was that just Logain's personal touch?

No weave in the WoT world requires a physical action like kissing, however if you learn the weave with a kiss as part of it, well then that is how you have to use it (you must get into the right mindset, and the kiss is part of that)

as far as I know all the ashaman that know the bond weave know it with the kiss as part of it. (I do know that Logain isn't the only one)

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The prior post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.

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masterkorgin
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posted November 11, 2002 01:20 PM      Profile for masterkorgin      Edit/Delete Post
That makes sense. I can just hear my players now having to kiss the other male characters LOL. What a riot.

Thank you everyone who has put input on this thread. I appreciate it.

Yours in the light,

Master K.

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Aagon
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posted November 11, 2002 07:13 PM      Profile for Aagon   Email Aagon    Edit/Delete Post
Well, I don't think we can compare the Warder's bond to the Asha'man kiss. The Warder bond helps both sides and does not force complete obedience. The kiss on the other hand takes complete control, the Aes Sedai has no chance to disobey the the Asha'man. I believe I read that the kiss is pretty specifica for a channeler of the other gender...not sure though.
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finnmckool
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posted November 11, 2002 07:18 PM      Profile for finnmckool   Email finnmckool    Edit/Delete Post
The kiss was just a part of Logain's touch. To quote him it was how he "was taught to do it." They didn't know any other way. Not to say there isn't one. I would guess it's much akin to Aes Sedai using hand motions to help them weave. Not necessary (Wise Ones don't do it) but a learned habit.
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Moridin00
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posted November 12, 2002 12:52 AM      Profile for Moridin00      Edit/Delete Post
Logain said 'That's how I was taught to do it'? Are you sure? Who taught him?
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The Great Gray Skwid
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posted November 12, 2002 06:48 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
There is also quite a bit of disagreement on whether the strong Compulsion that is incorporated in Logain's bond on his Aes Sedai is a part of the regular "Wife Bond" or if it is, in fact, the "extra bit" that he apologizes for.

The ability to compel absolute obedience out of your wife doesn't seem like the most natural of components to a "Honey, I'm OK" bond, you know?

--------------------
Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
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http://www.thehumblest.net/
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Freya
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posted November 12, 2002 07:14 AM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, Logain did apologize for the kiss saying that was how he 'was taught to do it.' That implies to me that it was not his own personal flourish. Besides, considering the Ashaman's bonding weave was originally to keep tabs on their wives, a kiss to seal it does make sense. [Smile]

And yeah, I agree, that complete obedience does seem out-of-place when originating as the wife bond.

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felicia
AKA Freya Culadin

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aleshandre
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posted November 12, 2002 08:02 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
...so logically, the bond is very similar to the warder bond, in function; i.e. allows compulsion, but does not require its use... in other words Logain uses the compulsion aspect every time he gives an order to the Aes Sedai. [Wink]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

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Daikatana
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posted November 12, 2002 09:19 AM      Profile for Daikatana      Edit/Delete Post
I seem to remember that some of the Ashaman have some kind of bond with their whifes.

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Aagon
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posted November 12, 2002 04:47 PM      Profile for Aagon   Email Aagon    Edit/Delete Post
But the Asha'man bond makes no rewards, which is an essential part.... I agre, it is simlar to the Bond Waredr's weave, but it also involves Compulsion.
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The Great Gray Skwid
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posted November 13, 2002 06:22 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aagon:
But the Asha'man bond makes no rewards, which is an essential part.... I agre, it is simlar to the Bond Waredr's weave, but it also involves Compulsion.

[Roll Eyes]
Um...there has to be a consensus in order to unilaterally state agreement, and on this issue we simply don't have enough information. We definitely know two essential things:
There is a weave that Asha'man invented to keep in touch with their wives that is somewhat similar to the warder bond.
Logain used this weave, or a variant of it, to bond Aes Sedai to him, and that weave (which may have been a variant to the original, remember) had strong Compulsion elements.

Things we do not know, but might speculate upon:
Whether the "Wife Bond" has strong Compulsion.
Whether any Asha'man bond grants Warder-like benefits (sensing shadowspawn, energy sharing, etc.).
Whether any Asha'man bond can be applied to another man.

...anything else in this category for this issue that anyone can see?

--------------------
Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
Ask me for information about the Texas Darkfriends!

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Blackdraman
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posted November 18, 2002 09:19 PM      Profile for Blackdraman   Email Blackdraman    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...anything else in this category for this issue that anyone can see?
Yes...

Does the bond react differently to a channeler as aposed to a normal human?

Alanna could not compel Rand with the bond, remember?

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Continuealy Searching,
Blackdraman

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aleshandre
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posted November 19, 2002 03:35 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
There is no direct indication in the books about whether there is a difference, because the other sisters who have bonded Asha'man haven't discussed it on camera (so to speak). The only thing that we know for sure is that Rand cannot be commpelled through the bond. If the Asha'man bond is the same in function to the Aes Sedai bond, then yes a channeler can be compelled through it, but we don't have enough information to base that on. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

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Moridin00
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posted November 19, 2002 03:36 AM      Profile for Moridin00      Edit/Delete Post
He must've made his Will save.

[Big Grin]

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