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Author Topic: Interesting changes in plot as of CoT.
The What Reborn?
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posted February 07, 2003 12:33 PM      Profile for The What Reborn?      Edit/Delete Post
Crossroads of twilight changes the story line of the Wheel of time in a major day. Most of the book takes place within two days, but it is jam packed with adventure(b)s! Egwene, before being randomly kidnapped, but after somehow rediscovering ceundillar, regooups with Bella. This is as sure of a sign that the Last Battle is coming as it comes.
Aside from that, another major developement in the CoT book is Rand al' Thor, believe it or not, can channel the one power!!!!
A man channeling, omfg!
All jokin aside, I love the wheel of time, but there just doesn't seem to be any major plot changes. I think the biggest shockers came in the prolouge.
Anyhow, reply in anything you think is a true new developement that warranted us to wait 2 years to read. At this rate, Rand will have altzeimers while trying to weave simple fire balls during the last battle.

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"A sinuous figure like a legged serpent, golden-maned like a lion, scaled in scarlet and gold, seeming to ride the wind." I think it's Bella. She has a mane, and legs too!

From: NJ | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dave Shramek
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posted February 07, 2003 03:20 PM      Profile for Dave Shramek   Email Dave Shramek    Edit/Delete Post
VERY little happens to adjust the plot of WoT in CoT except to add further complications. Dead walk, weevils in grains, and nearly everyone wants to start dealing. Seanchan and Rand and Co., White and Black Towers, everyone wants to get together, but things get in the way.

I wouldn't give players a Cuendillar making weave for a while, and even so, the desire to do outrageously unbalanced things with it would undoubtedly come up. Plus, if a player is playing in the WoT at a point where they could learn the weave, they'd have to be in the Little Tower group of rebels and they'd have to have been listed among the people who could do it. Since they're character's name wasn't listed, no dice on having the talent.

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As always, I cower in ignorance, awaiting a response.

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SoemanSnowlocke
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posted February 07, 2003 05:21 PM      Profile for SoemanSnowlocke   Email SoemanSnowlocke    Edit/Delete Post
Well I look at it like this, CoT, while getting barely nothing done it's entire length, has set up for huge events to happen in the next book, so I can't wait for #11 to come out. At this point we all know that it is going to rock. [Smile]

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Lord Schpungus
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posted February 07, 2003 06:32 PM      Profile for Lord Schpungus      Edit/Delete Post
Do we? I'm not sure if RJ has the skill any more to have his characters actually do anything. Maybe in book 11 we'll finally get a 3 page description of Rand's clothes, instead of all those icky females' clothes descriptions.
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the last great mikey
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posted February 08, 2003 09:12 PM      Profile for the last great mikey      Edit/Delete Post
WARNING, SPOILER ALERT I think this book was really to demonstrate just how powerful a Ta'veren Rand really is. Everyone notices the big release of the one power from his purging Saidin, but when they freak out, they do so in his favour. Like the Aes Sedai Red deciding that bonding Asha'man was the right way to deal with them instead of gentling them. Against their nature? Definitely. Possible? Only by the minutest chance. Or the Aes Sedai deciding they need male channellers to link with? Big time reversal. END SPOILER

it seems after that event, everyone suddenly wants to be on Rand's side, or at least negotiate instead of dominate. Even the Seanchan.

Perrin's getting boring real quick though. I wish R.J. would kill him off allready!

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"Hail to the king, baby!"

From: Vancouver! (go canucks!) | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lord Schpungus
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posted February 08, 2003 11:19 PM      Profile for Lord Schpungus      Edit/Delete Post
*possible spoilers*
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Perrin used to be my favorite character. You can't kill him off! Plus, he's gotta be there for TG or the DO wins. (see Min's viewings circa books 2-5) That being said, he's gotten really boring as of late. Rescue Faile, kill Slayer, break the Tower of Ghenjei, save Moirane, he's got a lot of stuff on his plate. I just wish he'd get on with it. Also, I'm not sure the Seanchan want to deal peaceably. Suroth's got the sad bracelets, she's a DF, she'll try to capture him. The other alliances will be nice. TAS+SAS=One White Tower(sometime, maybe...) Black Tower(without Taimandred) + White Tower will be cool.

Book 11 really better be the Seanchan book. Attacking the White Tower, capturing Rand, killing Shaido, Do9M marrying Mat... After all this the Seanchan should be defeated as foes and made allies against the Dark One. That, for one, will be a major step. Not sure what will happen with channelers, though.

Learning more about Shara would be nice, but it would add about 5 books to the series that I'm not sure would be worth it.

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Eagle Prince
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posted February 09, 2003 12:55 AM      Profile for Eagle Prince   Email Eagle Prince    Edit/Delete Post
I thought alot happened... but one problem. Not one single fight in the whole novel!? [Frown] That really sucks. The closest we got to it was Lan sparing/making general arses of the Asha'man, which is cool I guess, but would have been alot more exciting with real blades :cackle: Ah well, that was my biggest problem. There was a happy change of not reading 4 pages on bust sizes and blushing.

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I am the Immortal One hidden from the dawn, I am the Emperor-King after day has gone.

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The What Reborn?
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posted February 09, 2003 11:17 AM      Profile for The What Reborn?      Edit/Delete Post
I like Rand, Perrin, and Mat, but still, I'm not gonna defend them. They sat all book long. Perrin's wife is just waiting there for him to rescue, and wow, he has to ally with seanchan, big f#$%in' deal. Also, when will he realize that morgase is morgase. She looks just like Elayne.

Rand did nothing. He made a dcision we know nothing about and the rest of the book just waited. He is just being taveren. He should do otherthings to yaknow.

Mat went the furthest, but even he didnt accomplish much. And can't julin sandar smell where evil occured and track it? Wh ydid they need to use foot tracks?

Bella is in Tar Valon, and will soon make her move towrad the Aamyrlyn Seat. We already know she is the strongesyt channeler since the AOL. So, when Halima starts giving her headaches, narg can just take halimas head off. Which reminds me, narg............

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"A sinuous figure like a legged serpent, golden-maned like a lion, scaled in scarlet and gold, seeming to ride the wind." I think it's Bella. She has a mane, and legs too!

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Dark Halo
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posted February 09, 2003 02:13 PM      Profile for Dark Halo   Email Dark Halo    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
And can't julin sandar smell where evil occured and track it? Wh ydid they need to use foot tracks?

[Roll Eyes] Because Julian isn't a Sniffer, that was Hurin waaaayyy back in TGH. [Smile]

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aleshandre
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posted February 09, 2003 02:26 PM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
1 Taim is NOT Demandred, by this time, the overlap in Rand & LTT's memories would have revealed that he was, and Rand would have gone to kill him, or told Logain to kill him.
2 Julin Sandar is a thief taker, but not a sniffer. He is just really good at what he does.
3 Plot changes:
**Egwene gets captured by the Tower AS. Now how is she going to be the Amrylin?
**Perrin decides to ally with the Seanchan against the Shaido. We all know that Perrin thinks that the Seanchan are a threat.
**Rand agrees to meet with the Seanchan for negotiating an alliance. We all know that he would like to drive them back into the sea, or destroy them completely.
**The tables have turned on Mat and he is about to be taken back to Seanchan Territory as the Son in law of the Nine Moons. He'll be well protected, but he's going to be treated like a toy for a while longer.
**Despite Mat's efforts, Tylin was killed apparently in connection with his dissapearance.
**Beslyn now appears to be ready to accept Seanchan rule as king of Altara. This after all the arguments and plotting against the Seanchan.
All the Aes Sedai are ready to negotiate alliance with the Black Tower (except Elaida and the Black Ajah).
Does there need to be any more plot twists or are you just upset that there were no major battles? If we look at Path of Daggers through Crossroads of Twilight as a single book (which is what they obviously were since the events of all three overlap), then we have all the elements that we want. Lots of action, plot twists galore and a grand climactic battle, followed by the prologue and a nice cliffhanger. [Wink]

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Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
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JosephKell
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posted February 09, 2003 02:45 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
Tylin was killed by Gholam wasn't she? Mat was ****** because he realized that he tied her up and left her under her bed, and she was defenseless to try for help or anything because she was gagged.

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aleshandre
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posted February 09, 2003 02:53 PM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
Yes, but that's still in connection with his leaving. [Wink]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

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Eagle Prince
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posted February 09, 2003 03:12 PM      Profile for Eagle Prince   Email Eagle Prince    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by aleshandre:

Does there need to be any more plot twists or are you just upset that there were no major battles?

I would have settled for a fist-fight. [Bored]

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I am the Immortal One hidden from the dawn, I am the Emperor-King after day has gone.

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Lord Schpungus
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posted February 09, 2003 05:44 PM      Profile for Lord Schpungus      Edit/Delete Post
>1 Taim is NOT Demandred, by this time, the
>overlap in Rand & LTT's memories would have
>revealed that he was, and Rand would have gone >to kill him, or told Logain to kill him.

I'm not so sure about that. LTT's memories wouldn't tell Rand who Demandred is currently impersonating. Plus LTT's constant 'kill him! kill him!' seems to be marking something important. The memories might, however, point out that Taim and Demandred are similar in that they're always second to the Dragon. Oh, and about recognizing the face, Demandred would just use an inverted Illusion weave to look just different enough.

Either way, Taim is bad news and must be killed.

Robert Jordan has to know that most of his readers are teenage males, and as such, they like deciciveness and action instead of 'what kind of tea shall I have' intrigue. Get something going, RJ. We've had enough set up; give us the payoff.

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aleshandre
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posted February 10, 2003 04:41 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
Rand knows how to invert, and so would be able to recognize an inverted web if he sees it for longer than the length of time it would take for an attack to reach him. At the begining, LTT was insisting on Rand killing all of the Asha'man. Recently, he has not been screaming to kill anyone. Why would Demandred intentionally place himself in a position where he would be second to the Dragon once again? No, Demandred would not. Osangar was already in The Black Tower (as Daishiva), so this leaves all other Forsaken out. The Forsaken don't trust eachother and would consider another infiltraiting the place they had infiltraited first a direct confrontation which would inevitably result in the end of a tenuous truce between them. Daishiva had an unrecognizable disguise because it was a new body, thus no weaves to identify.

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Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lord Schpungus
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posted February 10, 2003 09:46 AM      Profile for Lord Schpungus      Edit/Delete Post
Taim controls the Black Tower, plain and simple. Rand may think he does but he's sorely mistaken. Demandred could still be Taim, just getting close enough to steal what LTT has and kill him with it. Osangar was in the Black Tower, yes. But does Demandred know who Osangar is or what he looks like? How would he know there was another Forsaken in the Black Tower if he didn't know what that Forsaken looked like?

Rand hasn't been around Taim long enough to tell. Rand's off saving the world and feeling sorry for himself, while Taim is amassing an army of male channelers at the Black Tower who are loyal to him alone.

We haven't seen a Demandred POV in quite a long time. Nobody can be sure where he is. Until we know for sure, I'm still saying he's Taim.

[ February 10, 2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Lord Schpungus ]

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Dave Shramek
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posted February 10, 2003 03:29 PM      Profile for Dave Shramek   Email Dave Shramek    Edit/Delete Post
Taim is not Demandred. A hundred times over Taim is NOT Demandred. If he was, he would have recognized Damer Flinn at the end of Winter's Heart, but he did not.

Secondly, if all we had were two books, then yes, the next one would have the Seanchan thing handled and the final book would be Last Battle and Denoument. However, I recall an interview with RJ where he said he tried to write 1500 page books, trying to cram everything he wanted into the book and ends up trimming down to 700 pages. I think that's why we're even on book 10, and I think that's why we may see a 13th or even 14th book before we're done. The man cannot estimate how long everything will take him.

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As always, I cower in ignorance, awaiting a response.

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JosephKell
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posted February 10, 2003 03:49 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"If it takes eighteen books to tell the whole story of the Wheel of Time, then it will be eighteen books!" -Quote of Robert Jordan when asked if he will ever just stop writing the WoT.
Scary huh?

Another thing, this isn't based on any of the novels but the Prophicies of the Dragon, in it after you free Taim from the Black Ajah sisters, he opens a Gateway and Skims away. I know the game isn't 100% to the books, but if Taim's traveling ability is at all based on tips from RJ, than I must wonder why Taim already knew two lost weaves.

[ February 10, 2003, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell ]

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-If you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four charges left...
-If the God of Destiny asks you what will have next...
...you might be a Munchkin.

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aleshandre
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posted February 10, 2003 08:27 PM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
Demandred has been to the same meetings of the "Chosen" as Osangar has. To say that he wouldn't recognize Osangar is ridiculous. Furthermore, even if for some Shadow forsaken reason, he didn't know another Forsaken when he saw one, Osangar would recognize Demandred, and he would not stand for it. [Razz]

The issue of Taim knowing skimming, or Traveling has been addressed by RJ (subtlely) in the interview that he did with WoTmania and Dragonmount. He said that if he had known the details of the Taim story arch in tPotD, he would have told them to change it. [Wink]

It is clear that Taim is a Darkfreind and likely the ranking Dreadlord, possibly a canidate for Forsaken, but he is NOT a Forsaken at this time period [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lord Schpungus
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posted February 10, 2003 09:59 PM      Profile for Lord Schpungus      Edit/Delete Post
Say what you will, I'm not backing down until I'm proven wrong. Taimandred stays.
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Dave Shramek
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posted February 11, 2003 09:34 AM      Profile for Dave Shramek   Email Dave Shramek    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Schpungus:
Say what you will, I'm not backing down until I'm proven wrong. Taimandred stays.

Then try *this* and *this* and this and finally *this*

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As always, I cower in ignorance, awaiting a response.

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JakoShadows
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posted February 11, 2003 10:06 AM      Profile for JakoShadows      Edit/Delete Post
Just because he didn't recognize Flynn does not offer conclusive proof.

Flynn is not one of Taim's toadies and therefore could very well be beneath his radar. Also, Flynn had been away for some time so, tell me of 500 or more male channelers you would remember each one... jeez - try knowing EVERY single person in your high school class....

Doesn't prove anything.

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Xythlord
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posted February 11, 2003 04:42 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
I knew every guy in my company, was close friends with most of the guys in my platoon...and after three years knew most of the guys by sight enough to recognize the new guys in the battalion (1,300 plus). These were men that I lived with and fought with, so ya, I would think that Taim might be able to recognize Dashiva.

And let us not forget that it's not like Flyn was some kind of johnny come lately. He was the very first man to be tested to see if he could channel, while he was teaching Rand how to sense channeling. You would think that the Forsaken would be a little miffed if the sweet little scam he was pulling on Rand was being crowded in by another.

[ February 11, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Xythlord ]

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
aleshandre
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posted February 12, 2003 05:54 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
Another former soldier here. After 3 years, I knew the men (500+) in my cavalry troop well enough to identify them by name at 100 meters in the day and 50 at night. "Not so hard", you say? I'm talking about by the back of their heads. [Wink]

[ February 12, 2003, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: aleshandre ]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
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posted February 12, 2003 10:39 AM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Taim isn't Demandred.

In the first place, Jordan has definitively said that he isn't in post-CoT signing reports.

In the second place, Flinn isn't one of his toadies, but he is the first guy that Taim tested, and for quite a while was the one that Taim left in charge when he left the Black Tower to go recruiting. Besides, it's unlikely that Flinn's Talent for Healing went unnoticed.

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Picking nits since 1976
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