Author
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Topic:
Linking |
LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted June 04, 2003 06:47 AM
I am
dissatisfied with the rules for Linking. I feel that they do
not accurately reflect the books.
According to the Big
Book of Bad Art, the strength of a Circle is determined by 4
factors: the number of channelers, the strength of those
channelers, the use of angreal and the balance between male
and female channelers.
The existing rules only deal
with one of these factors, the number of channelers. I would
like to incorporate the other factors into the rules without
making Linking overpowered.
Does anyone have any
suggestions?
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
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posted June 04, 2003 10:50 AM
Expanding
on something I've tossed out here before...
For
factoring in the strength & skill of the channelers
involved, I'd suggest using level as a proxy, like
so:
For everyone except the person directing the
circle, divide their level by 5 and round up; they count as
that many 'virtual people' for determining the power of a
circle.
As far as the male/female balance, I wouldn't
worry about it; I think it'd only be significant in a large
(10+ channelers involved) circle, and those are going to be
few and far between.
-------------------- Dave
Rothgery Picking nits since
1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted June 04, 2003 11:37 AM
I like
that. How would you factor in angreal?
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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Sharn_Penndroen Member Member
# 82230
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posted June 04, 2003 12:09 PM
I was
thinking of a very similar method, drothgery, but you beat me
to it.
You may want to be sure to state that these
"virtual people" do not count toward the maximum number of
people in a circle.
In other words, 13 level 20 female
channelers could link together and have the same effect as a
circle of 61 (13+48).
As you can see, one problem with
this method is that the table would have to be extended out to
include larger circles of high level channelers.
For
example what if you had a circle of 72 men and women, each of
level 16 or so, what bonus would you give?
I agree that
something needed to be done, else why would Sammel suggest
that Graendal link with him. To only gain a +1 to casting
level. I don't think that would have been very tempting to
Graendal.
Anyway, as far as the angreal goes, I would
just add the Power Rating of the angreal to the bonus for
casting level. It is unlikely that many people in the circle
would possess an angreal, so I don't think this would be
terribly abused. If so then maybe you could restrict the
number of angreal that can be used in a linked
circle.
Just some opinions of a Rookie, stuck in here
with two Experts opinions (i.e. LuciusT and drothgery) ![[bow]](Wizards_Com Boards Linking_fichiers/bow.gif)
[ June 04, 2003, 12:11 PM: Message
edited by: Sharn_Penndroen
]
-------------------- A man who will not
die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying
The
Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last
embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral
Ceremony
From:
Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
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posted June 04, 2003 01:30 PM
You don't
worry about what would happen if the 'virtual person count'
got over 72 because if you can do that, it doesn't matter what
your opposition has.
As for angreal, I'd count
whoever's using the angreal as 2 levels higher per
plus.
[ June 04, 2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited
by: drothgery ]
-------------------- Dave
Rothgery Picking nits since
1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Steve Russell
Member Member # 130579
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posted June 04, 2003 01:31 PM
I have been
toying/playing with the idea of linking adding to the DC of a
save. Currently I am using that you add the ability modifier
of all the channeler to the save.
I reliaze this is
quite powerfull but as i make women play women and men play
men in my game there is not a lot of linking (only NPC's so
far)
-------------------- I have a reading lesson
with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom
while she reads to me. -Olver
Please visit and
review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace
Book.
From:
dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted June 04, 2003 02:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by drothgery: As for
angreal, I'd count whoever's using the angreal as 2 levels
higher per plus.
I thought of that, but IMO it doesn't
work.
Let's take as an example of circle of 10, 12th
level Aes Sedai, one with a + 7 sa'angreal (can you guess
which Circle I'm using as a model?).
If I'm doing this
right, that adds up to a circle of 33 "virtual" channelers. If
I'm reading the right table, the Circle grants a +4 bonus...
which is lower than the +7 bonus the Circle's leader would get
by just using the sa'angreal. So there is no point in the
existance of this Circle.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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Sharn_Penndroen Member Member
# 82230
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posted June 04, 2003 02:40 PM
As far as
the angreal, I repeat what LuciusT just said. I still think
that the only fair way to do it is just to add the PR to the
casting bonus given.
As far as worring what the number
of "virtual persons" there are, I think that you DO need to
worry about it not counting toward the maximum. Especially
when concerned with the max number of women and men in a
circle.
If the number of "virtual persons" counted
toward the maximum, then high level Aes sedai could not form a
circle of 13. What is the sense in that? If the number of
"virtual persons" counted toward the maximum, then 1 high
level man channeler would be sufficent to make a circle of
50+. You can see that not just in instances of being concerned
with a bringing a circle past 72 with your "virtual persons"
does this become an issue. It is apparent that the number of
"virtual persons" should not be counted toward the maximum
number of people that can be linked in the circle. To do
otherwise would be contrary not only what is represented in
the books but it would be contrary to common sense.
Yes?
Anyway, I do see your point, that it may not be
necessary to consider extending the bonuses past +8, but those
that know me, know that I'm a little of a stickler for
"completion." Call me crazy and obsessed, heck, my wife does
it all the time.
[ June 04, 2003, 02:41 PM:
Message edited by: Sharn_Penndroen
]
-------------------- A man who will not
die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying
The
Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last
embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral
Ceremony
From:
Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
| |
Freya
Member Member # 93267
|
posted June 04, 2003 02:48 PM
For any
channelers in the circle, the +2 per plus sounds reasonable.
For the leader though, I'd think any angreal they use would
add after gaining strength from the circle (this is just what
Sharn mentioned, I think). Otherwise, the circle would be
useless as LuciusT
demonstrated.
-------------------- felicia AKA
Freya Culadin
From:
dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002 |
IP: Logged
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
|
posted June 04, 2003 03:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LuciusT:
quote:
Originally posted by drothgery: As for
angreal, I'd count whoever's using the angreal as 2 levels
higher per plus.
I thought of that, but IMO it doesn't
work.
Well, this was very off the cuff; I'm tossing out ideas
from the office here (Pacific time zone and all
that).
quote:
Originally posted by LuciusT: Let's take
as an example of circle of 10, 12th level Aes Sedai, one
with a + 7 sa'angreal (can you guess which Circle I'm using
as a model?).
The one that healed Mat, presumably.
quote:
Originally posted by LuciusT: If I'm doing
this right, that adds up to a circle of 33 "virtual"
channelers. If I'm reading the right table, the Circle
grants a +4 bonus... which is lower than the +7 bonus the
Circle's leader would get by just using the sa'angreal. So
there is no point in the existance of this
Circle.
Maybe treat the strongest angreal/sa'angreal available
as a special case and stack it with the link, and use the +2
levels thing for the others.
Just as an aside -- of
course the virtual people would only affect the power level of
a circle, not the gender balance required to build
it.
-------------------- Dave Rothgery Picking
nits since 1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
|
posted June 04, 2003 07:34 PM
And an off
the cuff 'virtual person' extension of table
9-1...
73-108 +9 109-144 +10 145-216
+11 217-288 +12
Also, for circles greater of more
than ten, add +1 if they're at least 40% men.
I'd still
say, though, that if you can put together a circle of more
than 72 virtual people, it's pretty much game over for the
side that doesn't have it.
[ June 04, 2003,
07:38 PM: Message edited by: drothgery
]
-------------------- Dave
Rothgery Picking nits since
1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
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Whitewinds
Member Member # 124732
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posted June 04, 2003 10:25 PM
There's a
big problem with the 'virtual people' idea and extending the
table: Using that, a large circle with no angreal or
sa'angreal has such a huge bonus as to completely overwhelm
the bonus of what's supposed to be the strongest channeleing
combination possible: One man and one woman together, wielding
both sides of the Power through the Choedan Kal.
Registered:
Jan 2003 | IP: Logged
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted June 05, 2003 06:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Whitewinds: There's a
big problem with the 'virtual people' idea and extending the
table: Using that, a large circle with no angreal or
sa'angreal has such a huge bonus as to completely overwhelm
the bonus of what's supposed to be the strongest channeleing
combination possible: One man and one woman together,
wielding both sides of the Power through the Choedan
Kal.
Only if we accept the rulebooks definition of the
Choedan Kal as granting +10 bonus. Personally, I don't.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
|
posted June 05, 2003 09:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by drothgery:
quote:
Originally posted by LuciusT: Let's take
as an example of circle of 10, 12th level Aes Sedai, one
with a + 7 sa'angreal (can you guess which Circle I'm
using as a model?).
The one that healed Mat, presumably.
You're good.
quote:
Originally posted by drothgery:
quote:
Originally posted by LuciusT: If I'm
doing this right, that adds up to a circle of 33 "virtual"
channelers. If I'm reading the right table, the Circle
grants a +4 bonus... which is lower than the +7 bonus the
Circle's leader would get by just using the sa'angreal. So
there is no point in the existance of this
Circle.
Maybe treat the strongest angreal/sa'angreal
available as a special case and stack it with the link, and
use the +2 levels thing for the others.
That could work. That really could work.
quote:
Originally posted by drothgery: Just as an
aside -- of course the virtual people would only affect the
power level of a circle, not the gender balance required to
build it.
Of course.
[ June 05, 2003, 09:43 AM:
Message edited by: LuciusT ]
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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