Author
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Topic: Bonding
Question. |
dolneagra
Member Member # 108771
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posted November 06, 2002 05:55 PM
Could an
Aes Sedai bond someone to some else against their will? It
almost happened in our game, but we talked the Aes Sedai out
of it. (Though, in retrospect, it would have saved an NPC's
life.)
-------------------- "Damn, I hate this war!
The cease-fires don't last long enough to loot the
bodies!"
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
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posted November 06, 2002 06:06 PM
An Aes
Sedai may bond someone to THEMSELF against the others will.
The bond weave doesn't allow bonding one person to another.
The specific wording only allows one person, the target of the
bond weave, to be bonded to the channeler, whoever is
channeling the weave. No
other.
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
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posted November 07, 2002 06:16 AM
Of note, it
is possible to bond someone else to a third person, but
only using Elayne's variant of the Warder Bond combined with
elements of the First Sister weave, as far as we know. IOW, it
would take some extremely bizarre circumstances for your
character to know how to do
it.
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
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The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
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Matai Gaidin
Member Member # 68319
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posted November 07, 2002 09:57 AM
I was just
thinking about what Elayne did and it seems to me that the
effect of the weave she used on Min and Aviendha was that
whatever happened to one of them happened to them all, as if
they were all sharing the same experience. So, then she bonds
Rand to herself as normal, but because of the "sharing" weave,
they all end up bonded to him.
What do you
think?
-------------------- "I think Matai's
dead!" "Good, I need the rest," Matai replied.
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
|
posted November 07, 2002 11:45 AM
This is
precisely correct. I should have pointed that out. As far as
we know, it is not possible to bond someone other than oneself
to a third person without also bonding
oneself.
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
From:
The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
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posted November 07, 2002 01:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray
Skwid: IOW, it would take some extremely bizarre
circumstances for your character to know how to do
it.
yeah! like being present and unseen at the time that
elayne and co. bonded rand that would take some doing ![[Dropjaw]](Wizards_Com Boards Bonding Question_fichiers/dropjaw.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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dolneagra
Member Member # 108771
|
posted November 07, 2002 05:31 PM
OK. We know
that an Aes Sedai can have multiple bondings in effect, but
can two (or more) channelers share a bond with one target? The
Eylane/Min/Aviendha/Rand bond would seem to support
this.
-------------------- "Damn, I hate this war!
The cease-fires don't last long enough to loot the
bodies!"
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Oct 2002 | IP: Logged
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted November 07, 2002 07:36 PM
I would
have to say no, but I only have flimsy evidence to support
that. I would think that if two people could bond the same
warder then why hasn't Nyn bonded Lan yet. She has oportunity
to learn that weave from Elayne, so why wouldn't she if she
could (it certianly isn't Aes Sedai tradition, at least in her
case )
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
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posted November 07, 2002 10:42 PM
Must I
remind you that Alanna was still bonded to Rand when Elayne
bonded him in the infamous triple
bond.
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted November 08, 2002 04:30 AM
don't
forget that Nyn has been being AS to her toes lately, and
wouldn't even consider doing anything that may be
against AS traditions; including bonding her own husband while
another holds his bond. The books make it clear that it is
not impossible to bond a person who has already been bonded to
another, rather AS don't do it because they don't want to
share their warder(s) with another. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Bonding Question_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
|
posted November 08, 2002 06:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowkiller: Must I
remind you that Alanna was still bonded to Rand when Elayne
bonded him in the infamous triple bond.
Remember that Elayne used a variation of the First
Sister bond, which the wise ones used to create a bond between
two or more people....this weave is specifically made to bond
more than one person, and it does not carry the same benifits
that the warder bond does. There was no talk of being able to
sense shadowspawn, increasing stamina or especially being able
to command the warder.
Now, the case of Nyn has been
being AS to her toes lately, and wouldn't even consider doing
anything that may be against AS traditions; including bonding
her own husband while another holds his bond. Well this
could be a good reason that she hasn't bonded Lan yet (like I
said before my evidence was a little flimsy), it does not make
a iron clad case for being able to bond one person to two
different Aes Sedai. What happened to Elayne and Avendieh, and
a regular Warder bond were two different weaves as Elayne
should know, she had experienced
both.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted November 08, 2002 06:58 AM
In WH,
elayne told rand that it is possible to bond a person who is
bonded to another and that the only reason that AS don't is
because of tradition(not law), and because AS aren't willing
to share. She had inquired of one of the other sisters on that
count. also, the weave that elayne cast was really 2
weaves; 1st an inclusionary weave on herself and the other 2,
second a warder bond on rand. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Bonding Question_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
|
posted November 08, 2002 10:33 AM
*DING*
Aleshandre's the winner! She's absolutely
right, Xythlord...
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
From:
The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001 |
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted November 08, 2002 12:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray
Skwid: *DING*
Aleshandre's the winner!
She's absolutely right, Xythlord...
Thanks Skwind... please allow me to correct a minor
gender issue - I am a male. No offense was taken, It is a
completely understandable mistake since nobody can see my
face. ![[Big Grin]](Wizards_Com Boards Bonding Question_fichiers/biggrin.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted November 08, 2002 01:04 PM
ACK!!!
Doncha love message boards? ![[Bounce]](Wizards_Com Boards Bonding Question_fichiers/jump.gif)
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
Registered:
Oct 2002 | IP: Logged
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted November 08, 2002 02:37 PM
So, how
many of you keybored jockies were thinking that my name
sounded sexy? ![[ROFL]](Wizards_Com Boards Bonding Question_fichiers/roflmao.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
|
posted November 08, 2002 03:16 PM
Well I
don't know about sexy, but womanly I would agree
with!
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
From:
Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted November 08, 2002 03:29 PM
In the
tradition of WoT, I modified a common name that I like to come
up with a more WoT sounding one... thus Alexander becomes
Aleshandre ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Bonding Question_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
| |
Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
|
posted November 08, 2002 04:07 PM
Yup......Just looked it up and I must now gracefully
bow out, the field is yours. Now this does raise some
questions though, I created a weave that was in the Netbook
UtDB called the adoption weave. This would allow someone to
perform the First sister ceremony as Elayne and Avendeia
(spelled something like that) did. From what I can tell, after
you pointed it out the Inclusion weave allowed Elayne to Bond
Rand to all three of them.
Would a First sister have
the same bond if her sister already had a warder (say an Aes
Sedai with a warder went and got herself made a first sister
to an Aiel Wise One). Would they both be considered Bonded to
the warder or is it only through that Inclusion weave that
this would be possible. So if Elayne had bonded Rand by
herself, after Av hade been made first sister....would they
both have been bonded to him?
I would be curious what you all think, as I
will change the adoption weave to reflect
that.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
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dolneagra
Member Member # 108771
|
posted November 08, 2002 04:34 PM
Thanks
everone for their input. Xythlord, I hope you get that weave
worked out.
-------------------- "Damn, I hate this
war! The cease-fires don't last long enough to loot the
bodies!"
Registered:
Oct 2002 | IP: Logged
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted November 08, 2002 04:36 PM
[edit: In
response to Xythlord]
I doubt it. Remember, Elayne had
already bonded Birgitte as her warder before she went through
the Aiel ceremony with Aviendha, and there's no indication
(actually, indication to the contrary) that Aviendha shares
any sort of bond with Birgitte; WH, p.
296-299.
[ November 08, 2002, 04:37 PM: Message
edited by: Heron_Marked_Blade
]
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
|
posted November 08, 2002 04:45 PM
Good point,
so no worries about the adoption
weave.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted November 10, 2002 07:48 AM
The Wise
Ones said that no one outside the room would be affected by
what was done inside, in response to Elayne's question
reguarding Birgite, that she may sense a part of what they
share, but it would not affect the bonding. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Bonding Question_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
| | |