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Author Topic: Aiel Asha'man
natearcher
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posted January 15, 2003 11:26 PM      Profile for natearcher   Email natearcher    Edit/Delete Post
I've only just begun book six, so how this has been handled in the novels, or even if it has been, I cannot say.

I cannot figure out how to work a class around this idea. I know it must be possible, because male channelers exist.

One could assume that an Aiel who could channel would still recieve warrior training (example: Aviendha, Wise One and former Maiden of the Spear). But without multi-classing and starting the character at level 4 or 5, there seems to be no way to handle this type of scenario.

I would appreciate any ideas on this. any way anyone may have thought of to handle it within the rules... I can't think of any...

peace be with you.

Nate

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Aldamir
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posted January 15, 2003 11:56 PM      Profile for Aldamir   Email Aldamir    Edit/Delete Post
IIRC all male channelers found with the aiel are immediatly sent to the blight were they kill as much of the shadowspawn as they can. They even consider it an honor

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natearcher
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posted January 16, 2003 12:29 AM      Profile for natearcher   Email natearcher    Edit/Delete Post
well, that answers how it was handled in the series itself.
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Tam al'Moff
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posted January 16, 2003 12:44 AM      Profile for Tam al'Moff   Email Tam al'Moff    Edit/Delete Post
That doesn't rule out the possibility of an Aeil being forced to the dark if he was captured.

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If it aint broke don't fix it.

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Jak Shadow
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posted January 16, 2003 02:25 AM      Profile for Jak Shadow   Email Jak Shadow    Edit/Delete Post
True, and with the coming of the Car'a'carn and the formation of the Black Tower it's possible (although VERY unlikely) that some male Aiel Channellers might go there...

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"I'm not feeling very well, it must be the anthrax." ~ Saturday night Delta Green, GenCon UK

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Tam al'Moff
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posted January 16, 2003 06:00 AM      Profile for Tam al'Moff   Email Tam al'Moff    Edit/Delete Post
Perhaps a meeting with Rand and his being such a strong Taveren might convince an Aeil to be tested and then join the Black Tower???

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If it aint broke don't fix it.

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JosephKell
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posted January 16, 2003 11:10 AM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
I believe the biggest question is how would an Aiel qualify for Asha'man? They don't use swords, so would aiel spear be a fair exchange: yes and no.

Yes reasons: Medium weapon (so hard to conceal) that does 1d6 damage (if peircing) that has 20/x2 crit threat/multiplier.

No reasons: Aiel Spear is a simple weapon, so wilders would already have proficiency. Algai'd'siswai get profiency and weapon focus, making this a way to cut short (he he he, book joke) another feat to purchase, and get weapon focus.

Other solution: Make the Aiel Male Channeler(s) learn to use a sword, and wear it not use it or not wear it and use a spear.

My thought on why asha'man use swords is based on history: (Long) Swords were typically only used by the elite and command squads. Most other units in low tech armies used pikes/shields or (battle) axes/shields. Long Swords were more effective at close combat than axes (but axes, if lodged in, effectively give you control of your very unhappy victim), and the Long Swords were used to recover and fill the holes when Pikemen failed. Metal was precious, and a weapon that was 90% wood with just a metal head was easier to mass produce than a sword (which is practically all metal, except sometimes the hilt). And this doesn't even mention that many armies before the medieval times didn't even have steel or iron (in Greece, copper was used with zinc to make bronze for weapons like shortswords). Finally, what is more Guardian like, a man in a clean black suit with a shiny sword or a man in a clean black suit with a shiny axe.

Book Joke: In the series the Aiel were related to the Tinkers, and they cut a spear shorter for a woman that wanted to go with the men, and that is where the Aiel (short) spear came from.

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Shadowkiller
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posted January 16, 2003 03:46 PM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
One of my players wanted to be an Aiel Asha'man when we begun the game but I told him it was impossible as there was no chance for a male aiel channeler to even get far when channeling because he would kill himself. This is what originally spawned my idea to start 20 years after tarmon gaidon. In truth, Ashaman learn the sword in order to defend themselves if they dont have the One Power. As an Aiel already knows how to defend himself, why shouldnt he be allowed in using on a spear, I'm sure he is just as deadly with it.

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natearcher
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posted January 16, 2003 06:01 PM      Profile for natearcher   Email natearcher    Edit/Delete Post
all interesting thoughts... Since Rand is goign to be fighting the Dark One at Tarmon Gaidon, why wouldn't some of the Aiel channelers want to go there instead of directly to the Blight. They know that he brings change, and what sense says that this isnt one of those changes?

but my question is not whether they would not go to the blight. it is how to handle one that wnated to go into the blight knowing what he's doing. Common sense (even by Aiel standards) would say that you don't go in to battle til you know how to use the spear.

but how to get the character to be a Lvl 1 Asha'man, and still have skill in the things he would have learned as an Aiel? this is my question, if more elaborate.

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aleshandre
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posted January 17, 2003 04:26 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
For Aiel Ash Aman, the only way to really handle it is by the following:
1) Modify the requirements if the background is Aiel - not requiring the sword proficiency.
2) In game requirement the Aiel must be Siswai-Aman (all others would likely go into the Blight).
3) Start as Alg, then multiclass to either Wild or Init, then take the levels in Ash.

There are other ways to do it, but this requires the least tweaking.

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Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
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From: temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Elsbon
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posted January 17, 2003 10:33 AM      Profile for Elsbon      Edit/Delete Post
I think aleshandre has it right there. This was actually my first character concept that I had for our current WoT campaign. I eventually ditched it because of how painful it is to come up with stats for a decent fighter/channeler using point-buy (he would have been marginal at both, and I'd already played a jack-of-all trades in the game before).
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Vish213
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posted February 03, 2003 09:07 PM      Profile for Vish213   Email Vish213    Edit/Delete Post
Aloha. Its been a long time since I've been online, but, I was just talking about male Aiel channelers with my sister, and we came more to this conclusion:

I don't think there would be Aiel Asha'man, really. The Aiel kind of segregate themselves from wetlanders. Their culture is different, and they don't seem to want to 'lower' themselves by adopting wetlander ways. Remember, they speak back ro Rand, recognize no kings, and all that jazz.

What I DO think might happen, since I'm only a third through book 10 right now, and don't know if this is addressed or not, is that the male Aiel channelers will form a society like the Maidens did, or maybe some sort of tradition, like the Wise Ones. With the Taint gone, and I'm sure the Aiel will find out with the rest of the world, male channelers won't have to go to the Blight to hunt the Dark One and die.

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JosephKell
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posted February 03, 2003 09:09 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
Ooooooooo... Men in Black Cabin'sor wiht shiny short spears channeling at shadowspawn...

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Instant Message me @ JonERPG on the AIMer

Visit AielManSpear

-If you cast Meteor Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells...
-If your character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook...
-If you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four charges left...
-If the God of Destiny asks you what will have next...
...you might be a Munchkin.

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Lt.Cmdr.VaSuvik
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posted February 03, 2003 10:34 PM      Profile for Lt.Cmdr.VaSuvik      Edit/Delete Post
I think a plausible way this could work is if the Aiel started out as a algai'di'swis (sp?) and was assigned to Rand's bodyguard for awhile.
What he has not realized is that he does have the spark (either a potential wilder or undeveloped initiate). Here you can go two ways:

1st: He channels for the first time by accident during a battle (or perhaps when trying to foil a gray man assassination). Rand sees this and orders him to the Black Tower to serve the greater good at the final battle.

2nd: While accompanying Rand on a visit to the Farm, one of the Asha'man testers decides to make a point to a new recruit about how the testing is specifc for channelers and picks the Aiel out as a "negative control". Only it turns out that the channel test comes back positive and he gets recruited by the Black Tower.

Basically you probably can't start out a channeler because the ones that are old enough would already have been sent off to the Blight and even the ones that are newly found will need the force of Rand backing his Black Tower (and the argument of the greater good/purpose) to convince the Aiel to break with tradition.

As for the sword requirement, well considering that the way I have described this Aiel, he is already "behind" by at least one level in his channeling ability compared to a straight wilder or initiate. That should be "penalty" enough to compare with having to take the Martial Weapon Prof.

Just an idea.

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"the only thing you have to fear is fear itself" - a wise man
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aleshandre
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posted February 04, 2003 07:11 AM      Profile for aleshandre   Email aleshandre    Edit/Delete Post
Lt, that's the reasoning that I was using when I made my post above. Though I figure that only channellers among the siswai aman would even consider staying and becoming an Asha'man. I don't think that any arguments for "the greater good" would work, but if it was approached like: "Men who can channel have toh to the world for the breaking, now we must fill that toh by fighting the Dark One at Tarmon Gaidon. No one man alone will be able to fill this toh. It requires us all to work together...." This is most likely to succeed in overcoming the belief that they should go into the Blight alone. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.
Normal people frighten me. I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with crazy people, you know to watch your back!
My web page, new & improved:
http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/

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theSaj
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posted February 04, 2003 09:16 AM      Profile for theSaj   Email theSaj    Edit/Delete Post
See Below

[ February 04, 2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: theSaj ]

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"To Die is to Live No More!"

From: New Haven, Connecticut | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
theSaj
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posted February 04, 2003 09:18 AM      Profile for theSaj   Email theSaj    Edit/Delete Post
WARNING:

From someone who played exactly such a character, this character has a tendency to be an uber-character.

First off, let me address this issue..."all male channelers found with the aiel are immediatly sent to the blight were they kill as much of the shadowspawn as they can. They even consider it an honor"

Note, this was because of the destruction that they brought. Same as why the rest of WoT realms killed or stilled male channellers. Since times have changed, the Black Tower, etc. This greatly reduces the "de facto" state of behaviors. Although I do agree with the above post that this option should be available for "Siswai-Aman" only.

As for the sword issue, I think it's fairly non-issue. The spear is a good equivalent. And there are one or more classes that one could take that give sword proficiency free as well. So that's moot too.

Now, to give some background for my character.

He was a Siswai'd'algai. Which as a character class is quite powerful for combat, especially stealth combat. I also rolled some good stats. 18 and 2 17's.

I then had him multi-class as a Wilder (repsresenting his awakening abilities as a channeler). He began a journey into the blight. It is here that he encountered an "Ashaman" who essentialy began to train him as an initiate. (multi-classed as an Initiate). Mentor was killed...

But essentially I eventually had a level 2 Algai'd'siswai, level Wilder, and level 1 initiate.
(Now remember, you get the bonus affinity and talent. This made for a strong channeller, I spent all my other featrs and "bonus channelling feats" on affinities. And quickly reached all five affinities giving me a +1 level affect on my weaves. That combined with someone who after reaching a few more levels of algai'd'siswai started to have an outrageous move silently bonus.

The character soon became a bit too powerful. Especially as the story had a cross-over into the Forgotten Realms (note, look at the Forgotten Realms book and you will see a part of the map that describes... "The Spine of the World" or something to that affect.) But harden air was a pretty potent spell so was a maxed out firball. We eventually suicided the character (in claim of madness) in order to restore game balance.

But it was a fun and interesting character....

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"To Die is to Live No More!"

From: New Haven, Connecticut | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged


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