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Author Topic: Seanchan Damane Test
Sophiathegreen
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Member # 136464


posted April 16, 2003 01:58 AM      Profile for Sophiathegreen   Email Sophiathegreen    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray Skwid:
quote:
Originally posted by Fyatuk:
That's what I have to say.

It's a shame it's directly contradicted by what RJ (through Egwene in the Great Hunt) had to say.

Everyone in this thread needs to reread the relevant section, I think.

I than reading the second book now and I just start. I did read ahead aliitle to when Egwene was capitive.

In Book Seven Glossary under a'dam there is two version of the Seanchan a'dam, there is than example of one without the leash.

Also there is than unigue one that exist that allow
a woman to control than man who can channel.

From: El Pase Texas | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Fyatuk
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Member # 133738


posted April 16, 2003 05:09 AM      Profile for Fyatuk      Edit/Delete Post
I re-read the part of the Great Hunt where Egwene is Damane, but couldn't find any mention of what the test for damane entails. I found where she explains to Nynaeve that there is a test every year to find people with the spark inborn, and those who pass that (by failing) are allowed to test for suldam by wearing the bracelet.

Could you please review the section you are talking about Skwid and let me know where to look (Chapter at least, paper back page number if possible). Sorry, but if I can't remember something like that it bothers me and I want to put that info back into my head.

Thanks,

--------------------
Fyatuk Loth
Tai'Shin
Weaver of Dreams

From: San Antonio Texas | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
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posted April 16, 2003 06:14 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
I believe this is the quote that Skwid is referring to from book 2, ch. 46.

"Nynaeve, a’dam only work on women who can channel. Don't you see? Sul'dam can channel the same as damane." Seta groaned through her teeth, shaking her head in violent denial.

"A sul'dam would die before admitting she could channel, even if she knew, and they never train the ability, so they cannot do anything with it, but they can channel."

"I told you," Min said. "That collar shouldn't have worked on her." She was doing up the last buttons down Egwene's back. "Any woman who wouldn't channel would be able to beat you silly while you tried to control her with it."

"How can that be?" Nynaeve said. "I thought the Seanchan put leashes on any woman who can channel."

"All of those they find," Egwene told her. "But those they can find are like you, and me, and Elayne. We were born with it, ready to channel whether anyone taught us or not. But what about Seanchan girls who aren't born with the ability, but who could be taught? Not just any womancan become a - a Leash Holder. Renna thought she was being friendly telling me about it. It is apparently a feastday in Seanchan villages when the sul'dam come to test the girls. They want to find any like you and me, and leash them, but they let all the others put on a bracelet to see if they can feel what the poor woman in the collar feels. Those who can are taken away to be trained as sul'dam. They are the women who could be taught."


This quote does not say just how a damane is chosen, is she sensed or do they put the collar on everybody? There is a reference that says how the Seanchan are putting the collar on people to see if they can channel. This might be during a scene with bayle doman, listing to rumors?

There is another quote that I am looking for (after I get back from work today [Razz] ) that says something about how a sul'dam who has been one for a while "feels" kinda like an untrained wilder, but different. I have to look for that one, but it may be in WH in the palace with the captured sul'dam.....not sure. This might explain why damane don't sense sul'dam, but can sense other mareth'damane.

[ April 16, 2003, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: Xythlord ]

--------------------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gray Skwid
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posted April 16, 2003 07:56 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
[Confused]

This is quite infuriating.

I can find no evidence either way, and I've looked for the past hour or so using Ideal Seek and Google Groups. There are adherents to both theories.

The closest I've gotten is someone mentioning that we know the Corenne has been testing *everyone* with the collar. OTOH, I can't find a cite for that, either. There are also references that Sul'dam are still tested annually for Damane-hood for the first 5 years...which seems to imply something other than "sensing for the spark," because, well, they spend all day around damane, anyway. What would be the point, eh?

--------------------
Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
Ask me for information about the Texas Darkfriends!

From: The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fyatuk
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posted April 16, 2003 08:01 AM      Profile for Fyatuk      Edit/Delete Post
*nod Skwid* I'm in the same boat. The testing every year is bugging me too. I really have no idea about this. I honestly do not believe the collar is not involved, but there is no real evidence as to what the test is. Guess that makes it DM's choice...

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Fyatuk Loth
Tai'Shin
Weaver of Dreams

From: San Antonio Texas | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Freya
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posted April 16, 2003 09:18 AM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
Without cites, I had always developed a picture like the following:

They first test for marath'damane by putting the collar on every girl. This catches 1) those with the spark and 2) those who have channeled before. 2 would catch trained channelers, wilders (though it's doubtful there are any wilders in Seandar), and Sul'dam who have developed the talent through continued use of the a'dam.

Then, of those who 'failed' the collar test, they put the bracelet on them, and if they feel the woman in the collar, they are trained as Sul'dam.

By using the collar first, if the woman is held by it, then conveniently they are already leashed and can't run, fight back, or do anything someone who has just been identified as marath'damane would do. They are then taken away, names stricken from family books, etc.

*shrug* Just my take on it, with nothing to back it up.

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felicia
AKA Freya Culadin

From: dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
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Member # 70903



posted April 16, 2003 04:03 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Aha! found the quote that I was looking for.
WH, CH 20

Often she thought she could almost see damane's weaves, and she could always sense a damane's presence and know how strong she was. Many sui'dam could; everyone knew it came from long experience at handling the a'dam. Yet the sight of that desperate pair roused unwanted thoughts, putting a different and frightening complexion on what she had always accepted. Did she almost see the weaves, or did she really see? Sometimes she thought she felt the channeling, too. Even sui'dam had to undergo the yearly testing, until their twenty-fifth naming day, and she had passed by failing every time. Only. . . . here would be a new testing after Renna and Seta were discovered, a new testing to find the marath'damane who somehow had evaded the first. The Empire itself might tremble before such a blow. And with the image of Renna and Seta burned into her brain, she had known with total certainty that after those tests,
Bethamin Zeami would no longer be a respected citizen. Instead, a damane called Bethamin would serve the Empire.


I have always assumed that the testing was done with the collars for the same reasons that Freya mentioned. As for the Sul'dam, they are first tested at a young age, probably about 13 years old, as that is about the age where women first start showing the spark (according to the World of Robert Jordan).

So, it takes some time before a Sul'dam develops the ability to sense other damane, and see weaves. By this time, the Sul'dam are no longer tested and just sensing them is not enough (still looking for that quote [Roll Eyes] ).

The missing quote is a POV from a channeler that indicates that sensing a Sul'dam is different than what someone with the spark feels like....maybe Aveindha?

--------------------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged


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