Author
|
Topic: Lost
Talents |
Jkol the
Butcher Member Member
# 106364
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posted September 22, 2002 05:23 PM
Are there
limitations on when one can take lost talents? The talent
selected at level 1 - must be a common talent - but what about
future ones? Presumably a level two initate could use her
bonus feat to take the balefire talent - which probably
wouldn't come in handy until she ran into a forsaken, Moriane
or some other woman who could teach her balefire (which she
couldn't learn without the talent)
As for lost weaves -
I dislike the idea that because some weaves are lost or rare
that one cannot learn them - somebody discovered how to
balefire - heck most offensive weaves were developed soley in
the War of Power. The ability to heal stilling was
independently discovered by channelers who figured things out
for themselves. As such it would perhaps serve to allow
wilders to puzzle such weaves out and learn them after level
10 or so but make such expirimentation much riskier (Balefire
could be fatal if screwed up, and we already now that there
are differences in the way that males and females make
gateways...when Moggy taught Egwene how to make a gateway she
told Eg that if a female tried to use the male method - it
would almost certainly be fatal. Thus It should require a
weavesight check higher than it would to learn it by watching
- take the base check for learning it from another. Add say a
base 2 to the DC, For each affinity required by the weave that
your character does have reduce the DC by one, for each one
he/she does not increase the DC by 2. If a wilder with
affinities in Spirit and Earth tried to puzzle out balefire he
would subtract 2 for his affinities, and add 6 for those he
lacked, he adds 2 to the DC for trying to puzzle the weave out
instead of watching another for a total mod of + 6 to the
normal DC, further those who fail the weavesight face a
disaster On a 01-30 nothing happens, on 31-60 make a check as
one who overchanneled, on 61-00 the spell backfires (offensive
spells take effect on the character, Mind affecting spells
Drain d2 int, wis,and cha (will save vs. weave dc) other
spells collapse on the caster fort vs. weave dc or
die) These numbers should be adjusted as
neccessary
-------------------- Self Proclaimed
Member # 001 of the Kill Paladins and Join the Blackguards
Foundation (KPJBF)
We are the Sorg. You and your sig
will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. (Please put this
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
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posted September 22, 2002 06:51 PM
It's very
nearly inconcievable that a female PC channeler would discover
a lost/rare weave on her own and then die before teaching
anyone else. This would cause serious continuity problems.
Sorry.
-------------------- Dave Rothgery Picking
nits since 1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Jkol the
Butcher Member Member
# 106364
|
posted September 23, 2002 06:03 AM
Moraine
Knew balefire - how many people did she teach? Nynaeve might
have learned some of it - but that is not certain. Further,
before Egwene it was standard practice in the white tower for
an Aes Sedai to keep her secrets to herself. Quite to the
contrary it is quite concievable for some Aes Sedai to have
learnt a weave - and not passed it on for manouevering power.
Further because so many lost weaves are forbidden (ie
Compulsion, such research is heavily frowned upon - Morianne
herself said she'd be still just for knowing balefire, and
Most wilders have any talent/minor compulsion weaves stamped
out of them pretty quickly. I put it to you that the reason so
many lost/rare weaves remain so is the politics and traditions
of the tower act to prevent them from being rediscovered - not
because they cannot be rediscovered through expirimentation -
Both bond warder and the Ability to heal gentling are weaves
that have come about since the breaking because of such
expirimentation. - Verin has discovered a crude form of
compulsion - and knows how to use portal stones (a travel
weave) but cannot channel enough to use them. Morianne is
ample demonstation enough that Balefire can be rediscoved - in
terms of continuity what else do you
want?
-------------------- Self Proclaimed Member #
001 of the Kill Paladins and Join the Blackguards Foundation
(KPJBF)
We are the Sorg. You and your sig will be
assimilated. Resistance is futile. (Please put this in your
sig to show that it has been asimilated.)
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
|
posted September 25, 2002 12:14 PM
Jkol,
channelers don't need a Talent to learn a weave within that
Talent. They only need to make the weavesight test to
learn the weave; they need the Talent to use the
weave.
What that means is that a channeler could
potentially learn any weave, even balefire, by virtue of a
weavesight test, but just not have the strength or ability to
use it themselves (not have the associated Talent or high
enough weave slot).
Nyneave and Egwene were both
present when Moiraine used balefire on Bel'al; Nyneave made
the weavesight test, Egwene did not. (Nyneave, we assume,
gained the Balefire Talent soon after) Does that mean Egwene
will never know Balefire? Or, that Nyneave will be the last
after Moiraine to know it? Of course not. On both
accounts.
Yes, it's true that some Aes Sedai are known
to have 'figured out' some weaves...but they were always very
low difficulty or 'watered-down' versions of the real weave.
Moiraine's eavesdropping is low level, something a beginning
channeler can learn. Verin's and Liandrin's Compulsion is a
watered-down version of Real Compulsion as shown by
Moggy.
As for the 'politics' of keeping rare/lost
weaves hidden...*shrug* I'm sure there are some like that, but
in all the cases we have seen, the weaves in question probably
go against Tower law. Again, things like eavesdropping or
compulsion. Both would be looked upon with disgust. If anyone
discovered a weave of great significance, like Traveling, I'd
think they would announce it to the whole Tower. Think of the
boost that Aes Sedai's Ajah would get within the Tower? The
boasting? The prestige of being the first person since the
Breaking to discover x? Said channeler would be the toast of
the Tower for quite a while. At least, that's what I think.
I'm sure many people think otherwise. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Lost Talents (other)_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- felicia AKA Freya
Culadin
From:
dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002 |
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
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posted September 25, 2002 01:04 PM
Err...
Neither Nynaeve nor Egwene saw Moiraine
use balefire on Be'lal; Mat and Jullin had just broken them
out of the dungeon.
-------------------- Dave
Rothgery Picking nits since
1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
|
posted September 25, 2002 01:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by
drothgery: Err...
Neither Nynaeve nor
Egwene saw Moiraine use balefire on Be'lal; Mat and Jullin
had just broken them out of the dungeon.
You are correct....I cited the wrong scene. There was a
scene though, where Moiraine used Balefire ('a white hot rod')
and Egwene and Nyneave were present. (against the
Shadowhounds?) Specifically because I remember Nyneave
thinking that must be Balefire, and Egwene thinking
that she couldn't follow the complicated weaving. Soon after,
Nyneave used it against some Myrddhal. ![[Blush]](Wizards_Com Boards Lost Talents (other)_fichiers/blush.gif)
-------------------- felicia AKA Freya
Culadin
From:
dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002 |
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
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posted September 25, 2002 06:40 PM
Egwene
thought both 'that must be balefire' and that she didn't
follow the weaving in TDR when Nynaeve balefired the three
Fades who were working with the brigands that kidnapped the
girls after their boat was
stuck.
-------------------- Dave Rothgery Picking
nits since 1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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