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Author Topic: Overchanneling is not that serious!
Moridin00
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posted September 19, 2002 06:50 AM      Profile for Moridin00      Edit/Delete Post
Mention the word 'overchannel' to a player with a channeling class character, and they break into a sweat. 'Oh lord', they moan, 'there is a 5% chance I'll get a headache if I overchannel!'. I think that a shift in perception on overchanneling is required here.

First of all, I will use the best evidence possible - Jordan's books.

When a channeler 'overchannels' in the books, jordan describes it as a channeling act which required more effort than a simple channeling act. Sometimes, this effort can leave them flushed, tired, weak, trembly, sweaty, etc. Sometimes it does nothing at all. My suggestion is that jordan's channelers overchannel a lot. My next suggestion is that PC's hardly overchannel at all. My hypothesis is that PC's have overchannel-phobia which is not a fair and accurate reflection of overchanneling in the books. As further evidence, I propose that almost every time a character channels it's an overchannel. There are very few times when a character channels and continues 'breathing normally', as it were. Some examples: Rand floating goblets, Ishamael teleporting, moiraine using her gem to eavesdrop.
Some examples of overchannleing: (there are hundreds...) Rand swinging the boom in EOTW, Rand calling lightning in EOTW, Nyn dueling the windfinder girl, Rand floating many things in the air in the Stone of Tear, Moiraine's wall of fire, Cadsuane's Master Ward in Winter's Heart... the list goes on.

Therefore guys, overchannel freely and often, and screw the madness if you're a male, cos that's what jordan's characters do.

How boring is an initiate who says 'ooooh, I can't weave a lvl 5 fireball because I might need to sit down for a bit afterwards'. No, rather have her weave a fireball so hard that she needs to lean against the wall until the stars disappear from her vision, and the trolloc she targeted is a steaming pile of ash.

Because that's channeling! [Big Grin]

*steps off his soapbox*

From: Cape Town, SA | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
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posted September 19, 2002 08:09 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
HUZZAH!!! Thank you very much I can't agree more. This is the same thing that I am trying to get accross to one of my players (actuall three) but one is the worst, channels like an accountant.....no life in it at all.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
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From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
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posted September 19, 2002 08:42 AM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Err... I suspect that Talaan was overchanneling while dueling with Nynaeve, and Nynaeve wasn't, rather than what you seem to be assuming, which is the reverse.

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Okiku Sukikuwa
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posted September 19, 2002 08:48 AM      Profile for Okiku Sukikuwa   Email Okiku Sukikuwa    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Moridin00:
Mention the word 'overchannel' to a player with a channeling class character, and they break into a sweat. 'Oh lord', they moan, 'there is a 5% chance I'll get a headache if I overchannel!'. I think that a shift in perception on overchanneling is required here.

First of all, I will use the best evidence possible - Jordan's books.

When a channeler 'overchannels' in the books, jordan describes it as a channeling act which required more effort than a simple channeling act. Sometimes, this effort can leave them flushed, tired, weak, trembly, sweaty, etc. Sometimes it does nothing at all. My suggestion is that jordan's channelers overchannel a lot. My next suggestion is that PC's hardly overchannel at all. My hypothesis is that PC's have overchannel-phobia which is not a fair and accurate reflection of overchanneling in the books. As further evidence, I propose that almost every time a character channels it's an overchannel. There are very few times when a character channels and continues 'breathing normally', as it were. Some examples: Rand floating goblets, Ishamael teleporting, moiraine using her gem to eavesdrop.
Some examples of overchannleing: (there are hundreds...) Rand swinging the boom in EOTW, Rand calling lightning in EOTW, Nyn dueling the windfinder girl, Rand floating many things in the air in the Stone of Tear, Moiraine's wall of fire, Cadsuane's Master Ward in Winter's Heart... the list goes on.

Therefore guys, overchannel freely and often, and screw the madness if you're a male, cos that's what jordan's characters do.

How boring is an initiate who says 'ooooh, I can't weave a lvl 5 fireball because I might need to sit down for a bit afterwards'. No, rather have her weave a fireball so hard that she needs to lean against the wall until the stars disappear from her vision, and the trolloc she targeted is a steaming pile of ash.

Because that's channeling! [Big Grin]

*steps off his soapbox*

[ROFL] [ROFL]
Great Read, Great Read. I have never laughed so much at a post on this board
Bravo! [Big Grin]

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Standing under the sun, I clean the blade in my sheath. I stare at Lanfear and smile, looks like it will be a long night.

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Grayswandir_Blade
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posted September 19, 2002 11:16 AM      Profile for Grayswandir_Blade   Email Grayswandir_Blade    Edit/Delete Post
I beg to differ, but only to a certain extent (I mostly agree). It's not always the overchanneling that makes channelers tired; it's channeling. Simple fatigue from wielding a lot of power is already represented: spell slots.

*blink* My, that was concise, for me...

[Cthulhu]

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theSaj
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posted September 19, 2002 01:05 PM      Profile for theSaj   Email theSaj    Edit/Delete Post
Why I don't over-channel...(much)

Simple, 1) MADNESS, which makes over-channelling much more serious for my character than say an Aes Sedai. 2) Seldom have the need....

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RocPhoenix
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posted September 19, 2002 04:56 PM      Profile for RocPhoenix   Email RocPhoenix    Edit/Delete Post
If I ever run an NPC for WoT, I hearby promise to overchannel at every opportunity. Why just light a candle when you can burn the building next to you and have enough heat for the night?
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Merclaar
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posted September 19, 2002 11:53 PM      Profile for Merclaar      Edit/Delete Post
You say it: a NPC.
[Roll Eyes]

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Moridin00
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posted September 20, 2002 12:34 AM      Profile for Moridin00      Edit/Delete Post
What do you guys think of the suggestion that jordan's characters overchannel a lot?

Would it be fair to say that in jordan's descriptions of channeling (i.e. the ones that actually appear in the books, not hypotheses on channeling culture), more of them are overchannels than not?

theSaj, not wanting your male channeler to overchannel because he will get slightly more mad is kinda beside the point, isn't it? If you're that worried about madness, why are you playing a male channeler? (and don't just say 'because it's cool!') [Wink] You also mentioned that you seldom have the need to overchannel... you must be a powerful channeler becuase Rand overchannels all the time.

GraySwandirBlade: finishing your weave slots is not tiring, but when you start overchanneling because your slots are finished is tiring. Therefore it's still the overchanneling that makes channelers tired.

i think Xythlord summarised it nicely... channeling like an accountant is boring. [Smile] Roleplay it correctly - the OPower is almost overwhelimgly addictive, and weaving it seems to provide some sort of rush to channeleres. Let your PC's enjoy some of this rush, and you'll impress other players and possibly yourself and the DM too.

From: Cape Town, SA | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Merclaar
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posted September 20, 2002 02:09 AM      Profile for Merclaar      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Moridin00:

[snip]
You also mentioned that you seldom have the need to overchannel... you must be a powerful channeler becuase Rand overchannels all the time.
[snip]

Or there are more diplomaty adventures than fighting adventures...

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cu

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Merclaar

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The Great Gray Skwid
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posted September 20, 2002 07:36 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Merclaar:
Or there are more diplomaty adventures than fighting adventures...

...or your character isn't an idiot, and is adept at using the Power in small ways so as to be useful without being caught out. We'll be levelling up to 4th pretty soon (like, tomorrow, maybe), and none of the other characters have even figured it out, yet! [Devilish]

It helps that my character has illusion as his one and only talent, and 0 directly offensive weaves. Circle of Silence and occasionally one of the "invisibility" weaves to help sneaking bits...Harden Air to extinguish a watchman's torch so you can remain hidden that crucial moment longer, then Arms of Air to make a distraction when you make your move...and, of course, Healing.

Don't underestimate the power of quiet, discrete channeling.

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Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
Ask me for information about the Texas Darkfriends!

From: The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
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posted September 20, 2002 07:49 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Hey Skwid, I know its kinda off subject but I just read you portion of the WoT FAQ, regarding the analysis of taint and its removal. Very nice piece of work, siccintly put and right on target imho.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

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theSaj
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posted September 20, 2002 01:08 PM      Profile for theSaj   Email theSaj    Edit/Delete Post
"theSaj, not wanting your male channeler to overchannel because he will get slightly more mad is kinda beside the point, isn't it?"
[[[No, not really, Rand is aware of the dangers of madness. I am also travelling with an Aes Sedai Initiate...essentially, the idea is to avoid the taint and prolong my life as much as possible. Remember, I am not the Dragon Reborn. I do NOT have to get powerful enough to fight the Dark One. Therefore, it is good to conserve my sanity and use my strength when necessary.]]]

"If you're that worried about madness, why are you playing a male channeler? (and don't just say 'because it's cool!')"
[[[ Because it's cool..., naw, actually when I made the character I didn't know a thing about Wheel of Time. I discovered WoT by joining a friend's RPG group. ]]]

"You also mentioned that you seldom have the need to overchannel... you must be a powerful"

In fact, my character design sucked. I had a healer...so here I was for the first couple levels a channeler who couldn't engage in combat. And I royally sucked in physical combat. One fight went like this...

ME: Swing an miss...
OPP: Swing and miss
(repeat for 7 rounds)
ME: Swing hit for 2 points of damage...
(GM, OPP stumbles on rock falls and breaks neck...just to end the battle, I royally sucked at combat.)

Recently I added Fireball to my knowledge of weaves and elementalism as a talent. (Hey, truth of the matter is a level 4 Fireball weave doesn't really need overchannelling much. 2 weeks ago I toasted 4 trollocs.) My biggest problem had been in close. I had no short range abilities, hence I just took harden air.

Also, I try to be innovative when I can. Example: Being charge by horse&rider, cast tool of air. Opponent runs right into prybar of air. Knocked off horse, party armsmen stabs.

(one on one we let our armsman do most of the physical combat, group...I take over...)

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"To Die is to Live No More!"

From: New Haven, Connecticut | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gray Skwid
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posted September 20, 2002 01:09 PM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Xythlord:
Hey Skwid, I know its kinda off subject but I just read you portion of the WoT FAQ, regarding the analysis of taint and its removal. Very nice piece of work, siccintly put and right on target imho.

Gawrsh, thanks. I'm actually pretty proud of this WoT FAQ in general. I put a lot of work into proofreading that monster.

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Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
Ask me for information about the Texas Darkfriends!

From: The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jkol the Butcher
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posted September 27, 2002 03:30 AM      Profile for Jkol the Butcher   Email Jkol the Butcher    Edit/Delete Post
I'd just like to point out that according to the stats - rand is only a level 12 wilder (which i think is a load of crap) though the armsman stuff does seem to fit as well. If you recall - even while shielded and surrounded on his way to the tower (before dumai's wells) He killed a warder with his bare hands and another was mortally wounded past healing - just because he saw min was captive too. Anyways the point is that at level twelve he would have to overchannel just to cast to use gateways - not to mention the frequency with which he overchannels. Ignoring that they have likely underpowered him as a channeler - they obviously expect him to overchannel regularly.

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Moridin00
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posted September 27, 2002 07:43 AM      Profile for Moridin00      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, Jkol hit the nail on the head there.

Notice that Rand has already taken the Mental Stability feat as well.

Even if taken at the time of Book 6, rand would be overchanneling a lot to produce the weaves he does.

Therefore, overchannel a lot! It's what Jordan expects you to do. [Wink]

From: Cape Town, SA | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
theSaj
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posted October 02, 2002 12:52 PM      Profile for theSaj   Email theSaj    Edit/Delete Post
Uh, another thing to remember is that Rand is Ta'veran

What additional benefits that truly has....*shrug* but I am sure that's equivalent to a few levels.

I mean, take Mat in book 6. What level is he? Did you factor in the fact that he has certain knowledge and skill levels of a Master General?

Oh and Rand, how can he do all these weaves...let us not forget that a bit of Lews Therin is in him. Therefore, he probably has more talents than normal individuals would at his level....

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"To Die is to Live No More!"

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Jkol the Butcher
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posted October 02, 2002 03:27 PM      Profile for Jkol the Butcher   Email Jkol the Butcher    Edit/Delete Post
True but the stats for Rand are given - supposedly after book seven (he is called king of illian) and name him a level 12 wilder - now he has been using balefire since, well several books. As at level twelve (and the stats try to take into account tav'eren) He should only be casting a maximum of level 7 weaves without overchanneling - even his access to angreal on occasion does not explain this. Aside from the point that the stats are obviously skewed (Rand should be in epic levels to say the least - he is the saviour of Humanity after all and one of the most powerful channelers in existence (Level 12??)) The intent is clearly that the shortfall should be made up with overchanneling.

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Self Proclaimed Member # 001 of the Kill Paladins and Join the Blackguards Foundation (KPJBF)

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Arat'nil
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posted October 02, 2002 07:28 PM      Profile for Arat'nil   Email Arat'nil    Edit/Delete Post
Nooo... Overchanneling is a piece of cake... Hmmm

I'm playing a 2 lvl wil/1 lvl init.
I met a black sister and tried to shield her.
So far so good...
I rolled a natural 1 on my consentration roll to overchannel 3 levels. I missed the DC on my fortitude save with twenty-something...

Great fun...

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Melriken
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posted October 02, 2002 10:26 PM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Xythlord:
Hey Skwid, I know its kinda off subject but I just read you portion of the WoT FAQ, regarding the analysis of taint and its removal. Very nice piece of work, siccintly put and right on target imho.

where is this FAQ? Tower Library?

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The prior post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.

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Moridin00
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posted October 03, 2002 12:21 AM      Profile for Moridin00      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Arat'nil:
[QB]I'm playing a 2 lvl wil/1 lvl init.
I met a black sister and tried to shield her.
QB]

Arat'nil, your 3rd lvl channeler has barely begun learning about the OP. In terms of strength equivalence, think Eg or Elayne just before they are raised to Accepted (Eg and El being powerful channelers).

Therefore it should be virtually impossible to force enough of the power through her/him to shield a fully trained sister.

I never said overchanneling completely out of your league is easy, I just said overchannel often. You can probably overchannel 1 level with no problem at all by now...

If you want a power over-channeler on 1st level, play a wilder with: Concentration 3 ranks, Skill Emphasis - Concentration, Constitution 18+.

This leaves you with an overchannel check of at least +15 on 1st level. More than enough to get overchannels out safely! [Smile]

From: Cape Town, SA | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Merclaar
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posted October 03, 2002 12:32 AM      Profile for Merclaar      Edit/Delete Post
Uhm, I'm not shure, but i belive wilder and initiate need WIS for concentration...
(maybe a type in the rule-book...)

cu

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Merclaar

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Xythlord
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posted October 03, 2002 08:48 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Melriken:
quote:
Originally posted by Xythlord:
Hey Skwid, I know its kinda off subject but I just read you portion of the WoT FAQ, regarding the analysis of taint and its removal. Very nice piece of work, siccintly put and right on target imho.

where is this FAQ? Tower Library?

Well you can find it here at theWheel of Time FAQ

Also this was created from replies by Charles Ryan on this board when the WoT game first came out and has many of the correction to the rule book that are considered cannon. Tower Library FAQ

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Melriken
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posted October 03, 2002 10:55 AM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Merclaar:
Uhm, I'm not shure, but i belive wilder and initiate need WIS for concentration...
(maybe a type in the rule-book...)

cu

nope, concentration is a constitution skill.

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The prior post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.

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Freya
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posted October 03, 2002 11:39 AM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Melriken:
quote:
Originally posted by Merclaar:
Uhm, I'm not shure, but i belive wilder and initiate need WIS for concentration...
(maybe a type in the rule-book...)

cu

nope, concentration is a constitution skill.

For everyone except channelers. Look at the skill lists for each channeler class and they will have concentration(wis), not concentration(con).

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felicia
AKA Freya Culadin

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