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Author Topic: Channeller in D&D (again)
Merclaar
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posted August 26, 2002 12:33 AM      Profile for Merclaar      Edit/Delete Post
It's only a idee, I'm not shure about it....

What about a Channeller in D&D without changes but with a +ECL?
And when, how high should the ECL be?

Opinions please.

cu

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Merclaar

Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dalmuti
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posted August 26, 2002 01:09 AM      Profile for Dalmuti      Edit/Delete Post
I'm currently playing a Channeler in a Dragonstar campaign of all things! My current character is a Wilder, and I am right now at 5th level. Here are my observations....
In my opinion the Channeler classes do not need an ECL or anything, it seems to be balanced... sorta. In my opinion the Channeler classes suffer from themeatic elements from the WoT Books (good thing in the Wot RPG) but when taken directly into D&D it suffers problems. ON the wilder front the +5 bonus to overchanneling and other themeatic stuff makes the class overpowered. I am not sure how the Initiate class fares.
My suggestion is to combine the Wilder and Initiate into one class... and possibly get rid of overchanneling. I think the Initiate Spell Progression, and Spell learning, with the Wilders bonus feats, makes a playable class. I have found that overchanneling at even my level is a bit overpowered (combined with the Wilders early access to weaves at lower level). I would also suggest that the Harden Air weave is at to low of a level, and that Spell Resistance should be allowed for it despite the fact it is an area Weave and not a target weave. My suggestion is to rase it by at least a level per effect.
To make it easier to get weaves, I would allow a Weavesight/Spellcraft check to learn Weaves that are Simular to D&D spells (Like Fireball for example). I would also allow Channelers to use Weavesight to detect any spells, so that Channelers have their own Detect Magic spell. I would also suggest that when put along side D&D Wizards, to make Channelers simply another type of Mage... perhaps replacing the Sorcerer class or something.
But all in all they are a balanced class versus D&D classes (With the above changes). Just experement in your own game, and make sure the Channeler player knows that to make the game fair (and thus fun) for everybody you may put some new limits on them, and change their abilities. It's a process to discover how it fits, but once you get to a happy medium they make a good addition to the D&D game.

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From: Orange, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Grayswandir_Blade
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posted August 26, 2002 08:37 AM      Profile for Grayswandir_Blade   Email Grayswandir_Blade    Edit/Delete Post
I would suggest, for one thing, making those two damn air weaves weaker. That's one of the few things that make channelers overpowered compared to D&D wiz/sor.

Also, just wondering Damulti, but what's your theory for the inter-dimensional issue? I mean, how does a WoT channeler exist in a D&D world? I've developed my own thing, but it's based on Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber novels...and I think I already typed it up on a similar thread, not sure [Razz]

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theSaj
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posted August 27, 2002 06:38 AM      Profile for theSaj   Email theSaj    Edit/Delete Post
Simple,

I have a character who is arriving at such via a portal stone...makes sense to me!

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From: New Haven, Connecticut | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Master of the Squirrel's
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posted August 28, 2002 09:29 AM      Profile for Master of the Squirrel's      Edit/Delete Post
What Air Weaves do you speak of? I am fairly new to WoT, and just trying to figure out all that is in the books.

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From: Forests (occasionaly Crane palaces) | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Merclaar
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posted August 28, 2002 11:29 AM      Profile for Merclaar      Edit/Delete Post
I supose harden air and arms of air

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Merclaar

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Master of the Squirrel's
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posted August 28, 2002 05:48 PM      Profile for Master of the Squirrel's      Edit/Delete Post
Wouldn't Balefire also be completely broken? I mean, it lets you actually completely wipe something out of existence INCLUDING it's past self.

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This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends

Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
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From: Forests (occasionaly Crane palaces) | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged
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posted August 28, 2002 05:51 PM      Profile for Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged   Email Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged    Edit/Delete Post
Thats why its such a crazy high level. [Smile]

[ August 28, 2002, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged ]

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From: The middle of nowhere....South Dakota | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheOnePowerman5000
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posted August 29, 2002 07:24 PM      Profile for TheOnePowerman5000   Email TheOnePowerman5000    Edit/Delete Post
IMO I don't think that it would be possible to mix the One Power and dnd magic! Magic systems are usually meant to accomodate one type of arcane power. However, psionics or possibly the force from star wars would work fairly well in conjunction with ONE arcane system. Again, with the OP and magic, you would first have to balance the systems, find parallels between the two such that channelers couldn't merely block wizards and sorcerers, and address other compatibility issues. BUT, if you decided to treat the One Power as a force similar to the Force, then it could be possible... I don't know, I would have to sit down and work on it, which I don't feel like doing, because as I said before, I think that more than one arcane system becomes confusing.

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odin181
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posted September 03, 2002 08:30 AM      Profile for odin181   Email odin181    Edit/Delete Post
could you not just replace dnd magic w/ the one power?

If you wanted to play dnd but didn't care for it's magic system.

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From: kentucky | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kamilis
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posted September 03, 2002 10:03 AM      Profile for Kamilis      Edit/Delete Post
I honestly don't see why there would be a need for an ECL, sure the one power system is much more powerful in some areas and you can use it more often per day, but you don't get nearly the variety as any magic class, which makes the magic class equal out the channeler. Can you imagine placing a 20th level wizard in Wheel of Time, just take a minute and think about how much power that wizard would have. Teleportation, Cloud Kill, Contingencies, Improved Invisibility, Reverse Gravity. Prismatic Wall, the summon monster line of spells, Iron Body, Polymorph spells, Time Stop, and Wish, just to name a few. In the end, a wizard is much, much more powerful. Not to mention if you would plan on adding an ECL to the class you would have to think about how it stacks up against other class, like lets say Cleric, there is no way a channeler is as useful as a cleric.

Also in my opinion just to make it simple, One Power and Magic is completely different, so when it says one power, it is talking about the one power, and when it says magic, it is talking about magic. I don't see how that could be very complicated

[ September 03, 2002, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Kamilis ]

From: Oregon | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
JosephKell
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posted September 04, 2002 04:32 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
A "naked" wizard will be creamed by a "naked" channeler. Truth. (Naked as in no magic items)
Reason: Wizard's were designed for a game with magic items. Channelers were designed for a game where a +1 longsword is fought over like farmland.

I can see how Channelers would fit in Dragonstar with minimal changes (if any). In DragonStar you have energy weapons, no one buys (or makes) wands of magic missile because they aren't cost effective if you can buy a Blaster Pistol! Other than always hitting you will deal generally less damage. Blasters can be used at BAB like any other weapon.

Channelers in D&D is different, VERY VERY different. In D&D you have magic armors, you have magic items (compared to WoT, every PC and his/her mama's mama has a +3 weapon!). A good way to limit (nerf) a channeler is to have magic items not work for them to a degree. Maybe they can use +1-3 weapons and Rings of Warmth (waste of a ring unless you plan to visit places like the 8th level of Hell! Burrrrrr). But Rings of protection and Amulets of Natural Armor should also have a cap for channelers, unless you dump their class defense bonus (which is nice, I wish all D&D classes had it, but then monks are nerfed, who likes monks anyway?!?! ::shoots a monk that stands up:: See noone ::shoots another monk that tries to protest:: [Big Grin] )

A wizard with a mantle of spell resistance and a few intellegence pumping items against a still "naked" channeler equals a big crater! and maybe 1 person still standing!

Channelers are like the best of wizards and sorcerers. They cast spontaneously (like a sorcerer) and they learn weaves by watching them, so they can learn all of them basicly (like a wizard)!

The only balance already in place is a lack of item creation by channelers and their need of affinities and talents. Which probably argues against most of my previous statements.

Easy way to bring Channelers to D&D: Make all weaves "common" except Restore the One Power (keep that lost), dump Balefire or replace it with a descintegrate like effect (starts with 100 hp worth of burning, +20 per +1 casting level, that is like level 56-58 for 1100 hp of burning! that is one BIG link to toast that dragon!) Keep the class defense bonus, and add in arcane spell failure (to limit armor) and limit magic item use (like no Ioun stones to boost Int, Wis, and Cha and other items that boost those skills).

Hope that helps

[ September 04, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell ]

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From: California | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged
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posted September 04, 2002 04:36 PM      Profile for Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged   Email Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
A "naked" wizard will be creamed by a "naked" channeler.
'Whew', you had me worried there for a minute.

[ September 04, 2002, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged ]

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From: The middle of nowhere....South Dakota | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dalmuti
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posted September 07, 2002 02:20 AM      Profile for Dalmuti      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry I haven't responded in over two weeks, I wish there was a better reason than I've been lazy, but there really isn't.
So anyhoo Grayswandir_Blade I don't know how you handle the inter-dimensional problems. Portal stones or whatever work for me, honestly it doesn't really come up in Dragonstar all that much.
As for why Channelers work in Dragonstar I think JosephKell is right, because of the uber-weapons. FYI I don't use the Defense bonus, or the reputation, but I use the BAB, and saves (including the "medium" save that Wilders get), and bonus feats.
As I said I think if you made the spell progression like that of the Initiate, took away overchanneling, and toned down Aims of Air, and Harden Air that everything would be balanced. But that might not be enough. I won't get into specifics... but there was a game recently where I overchanneled a heck of a lot, used all my slots up (putting hardened air holes through Aircraft and all), and oh my lordy I was like a god in that game. And I figured out a REALLY cheap tactic (which again would only work in Dragonstar... unless you had Brilliant Arrows), I Hardened Air around a Drow (no spell resistance cuz I'm not targeting him, just the air around the drow) and then Blaster Pistoled him in the head, insta-kill. It isn't always easy to do (Reflex saves and all), but it works. I dunno that Weave is REALLY broken.
My final suggestion would be that thinking about it, Channelers shouldn't be able to learn new weaves from Arcane casters. Maybe in D&D they shouldn't learn new ones at all, execpt at every level.
I don't agree with TheOnePowerman5000, I think you could add in Channelers into D&D. There are more than just 3 flavors of magic (Arcane, Divine, and Psionic) in my opinion. Channelers leave you a lot of options. You could replace them with Sorcerers so they would be VASTLY different from Wizards. Or you could add them as a new type of magic, like maybe something a new scary enemy culture could have. Or perhaps like in this quasi-celtic campaign I'm thinking of, Channelers could be a type of magic associated with the Fey. I don't think you should limit yourself into thinking that there can't be Channelers cuz there are only 3 flavors of magic.
Lastly I just have one question for you all. How would you handle Channelers creating magic items in a D&D world? Beyond simple weapons +1-5 and armor +1-5 I can't figure out how they could do it, save making up a new list of enhancements and items that they can do.

[ September 07, 2002, 02:22 AM: Message edited by: Dalmuti ]

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From: Orange, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
JosephKell
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posted September 07, 2002 04:04 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
I don't think a blaster can shoot through Harden Air... Blasters don't fire Light, they fire energy, which is why the element effect in the book is "Lightning" because even Lightning needs a medium to travel from point A to point B, and it usually Ionizes the stuff between. Now Lasers fire "Coherent Light."

here is another thing that is fun... Lasers bounce off mirrors... Blaster Blasts don't! he he he.

for using Harden Air in D&D and DragonStar, look at it like Wall of Force... Most stuff can't get through it, but Discitagrate will destroy it...

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Instant Message me @ JonERPG on the AIMer

Visit AielManSpear

-If you cast Meteor Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells...
-If your character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook...
-If you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four charges left...
-If the God of Destiny asks you what will have next...
...you might be a Munchkin.

From: California | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged


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