Author
|
Topic: Diffrent
Class idea for Black tower Soldier as opsose to White tower
initiate |
Jendar al'
Mandarb Member Member
# 126318
|
posted February 08, 2003 10:59 AM
Alright
guys your all probably going to stoe more for this idea but
hear me out first. My idea is to make a character class
"Soldier" witch is the male eqvivelient of an initiante. only
for a soldier every level you get one warrior type feat and
one channeling feat my resoning behind this is the diffence in
training at the bloack tower to the white. At the black tower
they are learning to fight and channel with a far greater
intensity level than the white tower. it has been said the
white tower codeles its girls.
Also i a side note i
would say for soldiers and the aiel warrior class that im not
even going to atempt to spell cuz um lazy get some kinda bonus
to unarmed fighting as they both have training in that
although the aiel sshould have a greater bonus. im saying
somthing like the monks in Dnd 3ed. Anyway someone give me
some feedback perfect my idea this is just a rough sketch id
really love some imput E-mail me at jadeAngreal@aol. com or
catch me on AIM @ bluegoatman15
From:
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Grant Anderson
Member Member # 113803
|
posted February 08, 2003 12:48 PM
So what
you're suggesting is a class like the Initiate, but one that
gets an Armsman bonus feat at every level and a channeling
bonus feat at every level as well. Oh, and it should have
bonuses to unarmed combat, as well.
How would this be
balanced against the other classes? 1d2 hp/level? Gains 1
madness point/day, even without channeling?
I don't
think you'd be able to make this work, without ramping up the
power of all the other classes to comparable levels.
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Fahkrin
Member Member # 89533
|
posted February 08, 2003 02:06 PM
My
$0.02...
The intesity of training in the Black Tower
only refers to the RATE at which levels are gained...a
Dedicated might only take 3 months to make Soldier (1st
level), whereas an Aes Sedai novice takes ~10 years to make
Accepted (1st level). However, almost every White Tower
initiate survives those 10 years, while the Asha'man initiates
have a good (bad?) chance of getting
killed/severed.
Gaining feats every level? For a
20-level class? Ouch...
I think that merely altering
the skill list for Black Tower initiates away from the
academic bent demonstrated by the non-Seanchan initiate
traditions is a healthy start, and probably sufficient.
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted February 08, 2003 02:13 PM
The 1
madness point per level would be a series appropriate rule.
After all how many had to be put down for madness prior to the
cleansing. By the way, in training, there is no choice, you
MUST channel to learn to channel and the Asha'man are pushed
HARD to give them the training that they need by Tarmon
Gaidon. Thus it would make sense that they are regularly
overchanneling while in training. Adding a saving throw for
this class at each level would be a good idea against the
madness (DC=madness rating +10, failure indicates falling to
madness). This would simulate the risk inherent in becoming an
Asha'man. Naturally, this still lets the PC gain a lot of
power fast, but as it has been said before, if you had a fair
number of combat weaves, why draw your sword unless you're
shielded? Even at Dumais wells, and against the Seanchan, the
Asha'man never drew their swords once. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Diffrent Class idea for Black tower Soldier as opsose to White tower initiate (1)_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 08, 2003 03:30 PM
General
Rule for class modification is this: For each ability to give,
one has to go. Kind of like a backpack, you can only put so
much in before it is full.
Start with the original
Initiate Class: Some of the skills are obvious mismatchs. With
skills though, I recommend first finding the skills that make
no sense and grouping them by associated Attribute (because
Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble are very useful, put those
aside for now, I know these skills aren't on the
list). -The Most obvious bad skills are Decipher Script,
and maybe Diplomacy and Sense Motive. The men aren't dealing
with any manuscripts so Decipher Script could be thrown out.
Diplomacy and Sense Motive are two others that might now make
sense but they also do.
So now you have a Intellegence
skill, a Charisma skill and a Wisdom skill to get rid of. And
probably a variety of Knowledge skills.. but Knowledge skills
could represent the man's background before coming to the
Black Tower (commoners are counted as 0 level NPC's, when they
take another class, that becomes their new level 1, so you
could start a game with all commoner "1"'s and have them just
travel to where they gain their first real level, you lose
your HP and have spent 2+ int Mod in skill points already when
you level out of your commoner level basicly. Just take skills
in what you expect to level into, you only get 2+int anyway,
so whatever you take will have that or more
points.)
Three skills to deal with. Other skills are
often seen more useful for a "kick down the door" character
(or in this case "blow away the door"). An easy way to deal
with this is to give Black Tower Initiates a +1 miscellaneous
bonus to Intimidate for each of those 3 skills the player
wants to make into crossclass (except for Decipher script,
that would become a class-exclusive skill that the Black Tower
Initiate doesn't have access to) of (by neglecting Diplomacy
they become from rough and fear
inspiring).
-------------------- Instant Message me
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Jendar al'
Mandarb Member Member
# 126318
|
posted February 09, 2003 08:03 AM
Hey
Guys, What about the sencond part of my question about
unmarmed aiel damage? does anybody else think they should do
more damage than an average wetlander? give me some input on
that aswell. oh and please forgive my spelling mistakes im
rather lazy on the boards Now going back to the main topic perhaps a give
them feats the same as initates do but instead of having it
being a channeling feat or an armsman feat have it be whatever
kind the player choices so that you could properly demonstrate
the diverse learning. Plus i like the idea of a madddness
check at every level although it would suck to loose your
character it does seem acurate and would be a good balanceing
tool. this is all my opion of course feel free to shot it down
or change it with good argument!! I enjoyed reading all the
previous responces
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Lord Schpungus
Member Member # 111502
|
posted February 09, 2003 09:11 AM
I like the
madness the way it is: gain d6 every level and 1 when you
overchannel.
As for the unarmed Aiel damage, how about
a background feat for the Aiel that lets them do d6 lethal
unarmed without provoking AoO. No monk damage die progression,
but it's better than any character can currently get in WoT
d20. There was a feat like that in the netbook, if I recall.
From:
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 09, 2003 02:40 PM
I
personally don't see the need for any special Aiel Unarmed
feat. Especially for 1 that allows them (or anyone else) to
take it and gain the effects of Improved Unarmed Strike feat
and doing 1d6 instead of normal 1d3 for the SAME size. Why use
a spear if you can the same damage unarmed? Touching in combat
is risky because most Aiel don't have Improved Unarmed Strike
and when they do touch their opponent in combat it provokes an
AoO (hence the reason to honor Je'toh). And why would
initiates gain something most warriors don't
have?
-------------------- Instant Message me @
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Lord Schpungus
Member Member # 111502
|
posted February 09, 2003 05:35 PM
Well, in
the books it mentions quite specifically in multiple instances
that Aiel are very deadly even unarmed. So there's your
reason. Plus, it makes an Aiel more deadly, which is what
they're supposed to be, for accuracy to the novels.
As
to your +1 to Intimidate for each class skill they give up,
why in god's name would they give up decipher script or
diplomacy for a +1 bonus to one skill? (besides in the
interest of game accuracy, that is.) Most players won't want
to screw themselves over majorly in the interest of book
accuracy.
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 09, 2003 06:29 PM
First, I
never said I would give up those skills, I like the idea of
being able to talk myself out of trouble! And Bluff has some
many uses [inside joke].
About Aiel: Improved Unarmed
Strike as a background feat could take care of the Aiel's
unarmed combat abilities without changing the game. Medium
creatures to 1d3 unarmed (sub-dual) damage. One feat (without
even Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite) that gives a
medium sized creature 1d6 damage (which is the same as the
Aiel spear!) makes no sense. Even Large creatures do only 1d4
damage unarmed.
An unarmed strike for a creature is
considered a weapon 2 sizes smaller, for Mediums that means
their hands/feet/claws/teeth are considered Tiny. Usually the
damage is 1 die less than a normal simple weapon of the same
size. A dagger is Tiny and does 1d4, 1d3 is 1 less. A Club is
small (Large is 2 above) and does 1d6 damage, 1d4 is 1 less
than d6.
[ February 09, 2003, 06:32 PM: Message
edited by: JosephKell
]
-------------------- Instant Message me @
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Lord Schpungus
Member Member # 111502
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posted February 09, 2003 07:03 PM
IUS doesn't
get rid of the AoO, and it incurs a -4 penalty to attack for
lethal damage. Aiel are lethal unarmed-why not gie them 1d6
fist damage? It's not unbalancing unless you're putting a
portly midlander up against an aiel in a fistfight. Personally
I think that fight shouldn't be balanced. The Aiel should beat
him to a bloody pulp in less than 5 rounds.
But you
don't have to use that feat if you don't want to.
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 09, 2003 07:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Schpungus: IUS
doesn't get rid of the AoO, and it incurs a -4 penalty to
attack for lethal damage. Aiel are lethal unarmed-why not
gie them 1d6 fist damage?
First part is wrong. IUS makes it so you don't recieve
AoO's when you punch/kick, but if someone without IUS
punches/kicks at you you get to AoO them.
quote:
Improved Unarmed Strike You are skilled at
fighting unarmed. -Benefit: You are considered
armed even when unarmed-that is, armed opponents do not get
attacks of opportunity when you attack them while unarmed.
However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any
opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.
About the lethalness of Aiel unarmed: there has been no
occasion where an Aiel has beaten a person to a pulp. Yes
there was the time when Gaul tackled those Westlanders after
Perrin let him out, but they were unarmed too (you don't get
to make AoO's unarmed unless you have IUS and they don't). And
never has it said that Aiel have killed easily unarmed. So a
-4 to do normal damage isn't outlandish and actually makes
more sense.
No feat should allow a creature to do so
much damage unarmed, it makes their spear useless (except for
throwing). Natural forms of attack should never do damage
comparable to damage of that creature's size without giving
them an ECL (per Savage Species, and very
true).
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Lord Schpungus
Member Member # 111502
|
posted February 09, 2003 08:29 PM
Monks get
1d6 unarmed right at first level, and they don't provoke AoO
and don't have to take -4 to attack to deal real damage. They
also get good saves and great AC. They don't even have to take
a feat to do this. Are they unbalanced?
Like I said,
use it or not, but it's in the netbook for those who want
to.
Yeah, I was wrong about IUS. Sorry.
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 09, 2003 10:03 PM
A Monk's
damage reflects constant training with unarmed combat and
light weapons. Monks also devote their lives to spiritual
enlightenment. If an Aiel were to join a Monastery and give up
the spear and Veil, then I would let them level as a Monk.
Monks are a hard class because it is so strict and guided.
They are like the Lawful Barbarian! Only instead of an axe and
rage, they pumble things! And the unarmed damage is a Monk
Special Ability, not a feat.
So please, find a better
reason to give such a powerful ability. (And actually a WotC
product says that natural attacks with damage comparable to a
weapon of the size of a creature gives an ECL +1).
And
not everything in the Netbook should've been
included.
Aiel Hand Fighting should require IUS, and
even then only allow 1d3 wounds or subdual
damage.
There are criticals and called shots, if
someone is the best martial artist in the land, then they
would have the skill (total attack bonus) to take a -8 penalty
(to strike the eyes) and hit every time! Same thing with
taking the -4 penalty to do wounds damage, -4 isn't that much
if you are many levels higher.
[ February 09,
2003, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell
]
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
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posted February 10, 2003 05:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell: About the
lethalness of Aiel unarmed: there has been no occasion where
an Aiel has beaten a person to a pulp. Yes there was the
time when Gaul tackled those Westlanders after Perrin let
him out, but they were unarmed too (you don't get to make
AoO's unarmed unless you have IUS and they don't). And never
has it said that Aiel have killed easily unarmed. So a -4 to
do normal damage isn't outlandish and actually makes more
sense.
Rand trained in the Aiel style of fighting unarmed. In
WH, when he was confronting the two Asha'man in the alley it
said, "As Rand prepared for the killing
blow..."(emphasis added). This indicates that the Aiel
stlye of unarmed fighting is lethal, or capable of
being so.
quote:
No feat should allow a creature to do so much
damage unarmed, it makes their spear useless (except for
throwing). Natural forms of attack should never do damage
comparable to damage of that creature's size without giving
them an ECL (per Savage Species, and very
true).
If you use the Combat Martial Arts feat from d20
Modern, you get 1d4 damage (lethal), form unarmed attacks. The
only feat that increases the damage is a special ability for
the Martial artist advance
class.
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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Fahkrin
Member Member # 89533
|
posted February 10, 2003 07:28 AM
For Rand
preparing to kill someone bare-handed in Winters
Heart....c'mon! Winter's Heart is a book and describes
situations in real world terms. In the real world, hit points
don't exist so if you get a 20th Level Armsman in the right
sort of hold you can snap his neck (I'm thinking of a scene in
Oz). 80 hit points to 0, in one blow: no critical, no attack
bonus. You're dead.
Monks proper don't exist in
WOT...giving someone a Monk's most distinctive feature
(unarmed strike) with only one feat is way too easy...everyone
will get that feat because its an incredible
advantage.
If you just have to give characters
incredible unarmed fighting prowess, make them earn it.
First make them take Improved Unarmed Strike. Then
make them have to specialize in unarmed combat (Weapon Focus
and then Weapon Specialization). Then, if you're generous let
them take a feat to do d6 damage base.
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Lord Schpungus
Member Member # 111502
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posted February 10, 2003 09:50 AM
That's a
lot of feats, but I could compromise on that. My only thing is
the Weapon Specialization. Algai don't even get Weapon Spec.
How are they going to do this feat tree?
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 10, 2003 11:18 AM
Why would
Algai'd'siswai need to do 1d6 normal damage? When they touch
in combat it is to prove they are better, and not to deal
damage. So that would be more like a touch attack dealing no
damage, because being able to waste an attack to just touch
them shows that you are the better spear
fighter.
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted February 10, 2003 01:00 PM
I would not
give Algai a bigger die of damage for unarmed combat. A good
GM is going to give situational modifiers, and if a PC Algai
sneaks up on a sentry, makes an unarmed touch attack, and
makes the STR check to break a neck, you've got one dead
sentry.
In melee combat, Algai don't use their hands
unless they don't have another weapon. Unarmed combat is not a
first choice; for most it's a last resort. As was stated
above, they are not monks, not would I treat them as
such. I'd allow them to take Unarmed Combat feats with their
regular feats (1, 3, 6, 9, etc) if that was what they wanted
to do, and by the time they're 12th or 15th level they may
qualify for the feat Empty Hand Mastery or (for Maidens of the
Spear) Foot and Fist Mastery (Oriental Adventures). Empty Hand
Mastery increases unarmed damage die size (I'd give them an
increase to 1d6), and Foot and Fist Mastery grants a +10 bonus
to Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks.
Increasing hand to
hand damage should not be something done lightly. Unarmed
combat is not the preferred method of fighting for Aiel
warriors.
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
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Eagle Prince
Member Member # 67693
|
posted February 11, 2003 01:53 AM
Check out
the netbook if you want a "monkish" Aiel class. Besides
Winter's Heart, Rand also killed a Warder with his bare hands
in Lord of Chaos. This would have been far from the best of
circumstances, probably the worst in fact. Sounds fairly
deadly to me. Its also probably safe to say that at least one
of the Warrior Societies are dedicated soley to unarmed
combat.
I think a new Initiate class geared for
Asha'man isn't a bad idea at all. At first, Dashiva was a
prime example of how an Asha'man could suck at fighting w/o
the One Power... but now we know this was actually
foreshadowing that he had slipped through the cracks, so to
speak.
I would say something with better BAB and Hit
Die, less bonus feat (more similiar to Wilders) but can be
used for channeling or armsmen bonus feat. Or maybe a
feat every other level like the Initiate, but every other feat
must alternate between armsmen and channeler (counterbalancing
the better BAB and Hit Dice with something else, like +1d6
madness every class level like
Wolfbrothers.)
-------------------- I am the
Immortal One hidden from the dawn, I am the Emperor-King after
day has gone.
From:
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted February 11, 2003 04:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Eagle Prince: I would
say something with better BAB and Hit Die, less bonus feat
(more similiar to Wilders) but can be used for channeling
or armsmen bonus feat. Or maybe a feat every other
level like the Initiate, but every other feat must alternate
between armsmen and channeler (counterbalancing the better
BAB and Hit Dice with something else, like +1d6 madness
every class level like Wolfbrothers.)
That sounds about right to me. Let's get a version
posted or better yet sent to the new netbook. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards Diffrent Class idea for Black tower Soldier as opsose to White tower initiate (1)_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
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Eagle Prince
Member Member # 67693
|
posted February 11, 2003 03:52 PM
Well, I'll
start it but somebody else will have to finish it. Alright, here's a start.
Hit Die:
d6
___________________________________________________Class
Skills The soldier's class skills (and the key ability
for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Composure (Wis),
Concentration (Wis), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather
Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha),
Invert (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge
(arcana)(geography)(local)(Int), Ride (Dex), Sense MOtive
(Wis), and Weavesight (Int). See Chapter 4: Skills for skill
descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st level: (4 +
Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional
Level: 4 + Int modifier.
code:
Lvl.BAB.......Fort.Ref.Will.Def.Rep.Special 1...+0.........+2..+0..+2...+3...1..Accelerated Training 2...+1.........+3..+0..+3...+4...1..Bonus feat 3...+2.........+3..+1..+3...+4...2..Swordmanship 4...+3.........+4..+1..+4...+4...2..Dedicated 5...+3.........+4..+1..+4...+5...3..Bonus feat 6...+4.........+5..+2..+5...+5...3..Slow Aging 7...+5.........+5..+2..+5...+6...4..Handfighting 8...+6/+1......+6..+2..+6...+6...4..Bonus feat 9...+6/+1......+6..+3..+6...+6...5.. 10..+7/+2......+7..+3..+7...+7...5..Asha'man 11..+8/+3......+7..+3..+7...+7...6..Bonus feat 12..+9/+4......+8..+4..+8...+8...6..Advanced Melee 13..+9/+4......+8..+4..+8...+8...7.. 14..+10/+5.....+9..+4..+9...+8...7..Bonus feat 15..+11/+6/+1..+9..+5..+9...+9...8.. 16..+12/+7/+2..+10.+5..+10..+9...8..Mental Stability 17..+12/+7/+2..+10.+5..+10..+10..9..Bonus feat 18..+13/+8/+3..+11.+6..+11..+10..9.. 19..+14/+9/+4..+11.+6..+11..+10.10.. 20..+15/+10/+5.+12.+6..+12..+11.10..Bonus feat
___________________________________________________Class
Features All of the following are class features of the
soldier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The
soldier is proficient in all simple and martial weapons. They
gain no proficiency in armor or shields.
The One
Power: ...
Affinities: A soldier begins play
with an Affinity for one of the following Five Powers: Earth,
Fire, Spirit.
Talents and Weaves: Every soldier
begins play having one common Talent and knowing eight common
weaves of 0 level or 1st level (including multilevel weaves
that include level 0 or 1). A soldier can gain more Talents
with the Additional Talent feat. As the game progresses, the
soldier can learn new weaves through observation and training,
and gains bonus weaves at certain levels (see Accelerated
Training below). See the Weavesight skill description for more
information. A soldier is limited to using a certain number
of weaves each level per day. The number of weaves he can use
per day is determined by table 3-5: Initiate Weaves, and he
gains bonus weaves from having a high Intelligence and
Wisdom.
Overchanneling: Like initiates, soldiers
can overchannel to cast more weaves than they are normally
able (see Overchanneling, page 162). However, their
accelerated training also forces them to overchannel an
abnormal ammount, and they gain bonuses when doing so. When
overchanneling, the soldier gains a +5 competence bonus to
Concentration checks and the same bonus to Fortitude saves
when they fail an overchanneling attempt.
Tradition
Customs: Soldiers are members of the Black Tower, and are
required to obey certain regulations as part of its customs.
Anyone who breaks these customs is hunted down by the Black
Tower, and (if caught) killed and hung on the Traitor's
Tree. At 1st level, the soldier is still in his primary
training, and every morning has to attend Roll Call. Not
attending this head count can be considered treason to the
Black Tower and drastic disiplinary action may be
enforced. At 4th level, the soldier earns a silver sword
pin and advances to Dedicated rank. He no longer is required
to attend Roll Call, but will be given specific assignments
that he must attend or suffer the chance of possibly being
named a traitor. These duties can include recruiting new
members, teaching classes, and special missions given by the
M'Hael. At 10th level, or as soon as he enters the Asha'man
prestige class, he earns the red dragon and advances to a
fully-ranked Asha'man. He is now free to choose how he spends
most of his time and direction of study, although occasionally
will still be assigned specific missions. The GM is free to
give these ranks sooner or later for roleplaying purposes, at
his option.
Accelerated Training: Unlike
Initiates, soldiers are pushed to learn channeling as fast as
possible, taking risks that would make most channelers cringe.
They are forced to do all their chores with the One Power,
where Initiates are usually encouraged to not do anything with
the One Power they could do without it. This constant
pushing has several effects. First, the simple ammount of
channeling they do accelerates the ill effects of tainted
saidin. At first level and every additional level taken of the
class, the GM secretly rolls 1d6 and adds the number to their
madness rating. This is in addition to the 1d6 points of
madness all male channelers get every level. It also makes
them adept ad overchanneling (see above), and quick to learn
new weaves. At fifth level and every five levels thereafter,
the soldier learns an additional weave. He can learn this
weave from a friend or even discover it on his own, and can be
common, rare, or even lost.
Bonus feats: At 2nd
level, and every 3 levels thereafter (5th, 8th, 1`th, and so
forth), the soldier gains a bonus feat. The soldier must
choose this feat from the following list: Alertness, Armor
Proficiency (any), Blind-Fight, Combat Casting, Combat
Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack),
Combat Reflexes, Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Exotic
Weapon Proficiency, Extra Affinity, Extra Talent, Improved
Critical, Improved Initiative, Mental Stability, Mounted
Combat (Trample, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge), Multiweave,
Power Attack (Cleave, Great Cleave), Power-Heightened Senses,
Quick Draw, Sense Residue, Shield Proficiency, Tie Off Weave,
Toughness, Two-Weaopn Fighting (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting),
Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus. Some of the bonus feats
available to a soldier cannot be acquired until he has gained
one or more rerequisite feats; these feats are listed
parenthetically after the prerequisite feat. A soldier must
still meet all prerequisites for a feat, including ability
score and base attack bonus minimus. Important: These
bonus feats are in addition to the feats that a character of
any class gets every three levels. The soldier is not limited
to this list when choosing those
feats.
Swordsmanship: A soldier's primary
training is fighting with the One Power, but only a slight
second is their training with the sword. At 3rd level, the
soldier gains Weapon Focus with his choice of sword as a bonus
feat.
Slow Aging: The ability to channel slows
the aging process, however a soldier's accelerated training
lets him advance further then initiates before this effect is
in place. Starting at 6th level, divide your channeling levels
by 3. The result is the number of years that must pass for
your character to age one year. For example, a 6th-level
soldier ages one year for every two years that goes by (in
other words, he ages at half the rate of a normal person). At
12th-level, the soldier ages one year every four years (or
one-quarter the rate of a normal
person).
Handfighting: Along with learning the
sword, the Black Tower demands its members to be able to
defend themselves even when completely unarmed and unable to
channel. At 7th level, they gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a
bonus feat.
Advanced Melee: At 12th level, the
soldier has aquired elite training in melee combat. He gains
Weapon Specialization in his choice of sword or unarmed
strike, so long as he meets all the
prerequisites.
Mental Stability: Should a
soldier survive long enough to reach level 16, he had proven
his mettle to himself as well as others. Drawing on a hidden
reservoir of inner strength, he gains the Mental Stability
feat for free.
[ February 11, 2003, 03:55 PM:
Message edited by: Eagle Prince
]
-------------------- I am the Immortal
One hidden from the dawn, I am the Emperor-King after day has
gone.
From:
Utah | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
|
posted February 11, 2003 05:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Eagle Prince: Well,
I'll start it but somebody else will have to finish it. Alright, here's a start.
Way to take the plunge! And a good start too, I might
add.
I like the class, but I think it's a little too
broad. I'd remove Handfighting and Advanced Melee as class
features and move Mental Stability to level 12.
Swordsmanship (Focus) is not a bad idea, but Soldiers
have a LOT of bonus feats that can be channeling or combat
feats. I'd give them some starting fighting ability, but I
wouldn't give it to them for free; give them the freedom to
choose. That's what the 3-level character feats are
for.
Armsmen are the baddest fighters, but they don't
gain any class-inherent combat abilities beyond Armor
Compatibility at 3rd -- they're given bonus feats to make them
warriors. You've given the Soldier class bonus feats, now let
them use them as they wish to focus on fighting (as I'm sure
some Soldiers have) or channeling (as I'm sure the majority
have).
I don't have a problem with the high saves;
Wilders have higher, but it's balanced by the 3/4 BAB of this
class versus the 1/2 BAB of the wilder. The defense is
appropriate, I think.
I guess I'd just fix the class
ability progression. I think you've got a good one
here.
[ February 11, 2003, 06:22 PM: Message
edited by: Heron_Marked_Blade
]
-------------------- "Suravye ninto
manshima taishite."
Registered:
Oct 2002 | IP: Logged
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 11, 2003 06:18 PM
There are a
few requirements (BAB +2, 3 skills, 4 channeling feats-multi,
tie, extra afinity and talent, and sword prof) for the
Asha'man PrC, I think the rank of Dedicated should be awarded
when a Black Tower Initiate has earned 3 of the 6 things
(treating the skills as 1 and each feat as 1, granted that for
the skills you need your level +3 in concentration to be
considered a dedicated) if they earn it before level
4.
This class seems like a more powerful Wilder, so
does it use the Initiate or the Wilder weaves per day
table?
One change I would recommend is instead of d6 HD
maybe "d4+1" HD would be more apropriate, I know it has never
been done before, but aside from the later Slow Aging, this
class gets all the things of the wilder and more. They also
get the BAB, which would be very important if a GM said that
all weaves require a [ranged] touch attack (like fireball
would require a grenade like attack for one spot, if you miss
the to hit, you use he granade scatter rules), but it gets
more bab than the wilder.
Overall: very nice build, but
I would still like to see it explained* (It seems this Black
Tower Initiate class started with the "Initiate", but then
gets a 3/4 bab, Wilder's feats, Wilder's Def, Wilder's HD, and
more feats on top). And I do see the accelerated
madness.
By "Explain" I mean could you describe why you
choose to do certain things, sort of like cliff notes for your
build step by step.
One last thing, I think Taim (until
he is removed) would be weary of any male channeler that
approached his level (14 I believe), even if they are loyal to
him rather than the Dragon. But this is probably more of a RP
thing than game balance.
Second Edit: Note
about Weaves Per Day passed level 10: Yes the Initiate is
"better" after level 10, but how many games are really going
to get there? The Opening (Levels 1-4) require melee
characters to guard the channelers, but those characters that
do the grunt work at the beginning get screwed and
overshadowed once the channelers get to a point where they
don't rely on "interceptors" (Armsman, and other warrior
classes). Short of letting those melee characters ditch their
characters and make a channeler at that level they will
never catch up. But I was going off on a tangent. The
real point is that most games aren't going to reach level
13-15 before the party falls apart. (unless they started off
at levels like 5-7 where everyone was a channeler because if
it is 2 Non-Channelers and 2 Channelers, the players will
split as the "Norms" become Cheerleaders)
Nice thing
about this build: 3/4 BAB allows for These Black Tower
Initiates to be their own "interceptors."
Ooo ooo ooo!
Good Idea! Will everyone bear with me and turn to page 215:
Thief-Taker, look at its BAB: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7.
Maybe something like this would work. Then after 7 a slow
progression to 10 at 20 (most of them will multi into Asha'man
long before level 10! Especially with the sword prof taken
care of. Normal feat @ 1, class feat @ 2, norm feat @ 3, and
class feat at 5, then they have the 4 channeling feats
required to take Asha'man as their 6th class level.)
I
think i will repost an alternate table so my vision is
clear-er (if not clear).
[ February 11,
2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell
]
-------------------- Instant Message me @
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Visit AielManSpear
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Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
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charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
California | Registered: Aug 2002 |
IP: Logged
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted February 11, 2003 07:55 PM
There.
Hopes this clears up my infernal ranting... a bit.
Hit Die:
d4+1
___________________________________________________Class
Skills The soldier's class skills (and the key ability
for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Composure (Wis),
Concentration (Wis), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather
Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha),
Invert (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana, geography,
local)(Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Weavesight
(Int). See Chapter 4: Skills for skill
descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st level: (4 +
Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional
Level: 4 + Int modifier.
code:
Lvl.BAB.......Fort.Ref.Will.Def.Rep.Special 1...+0.........+2..+0..+2...+3...1..Accelerated Training, Bonus Feat, Skill Emphasis (Concentration) 2...+1.........+3..+0..+3...+4...1..Bonus feat 3...+2.........+3..+1..+3...+4...2..Slow Aging 4...+3.........+4..+1..+4...+4...2..Power-Heightened Senses 5...+3.........+4..+1..+4...+5...3..Bonus feat 6...+4.........+5..+2..+5...+5...3.. 7...+5.........+5..+2..+5...+6...4.. 8...+6/+1......+6..+2..+6...+6...4..Bonus feat 9...+6/+1......+6..+3..+6...+6...5..Improved Unarmed Strike 10..+7/+2......+7..+3..+7...+7...5.. 11..+8/+3......+7..+3..+7...+7...6..Bonus feat 12..+9/+4......+8..+4..+8...+8...6.. 13..+9/+4......+8..+4..+8...+8...7.. 14..+10/+5.....+9..+4..+9...+8...7..Bonus feat 15..+11/+6/+1..+9..+5..+9...+9...8.. 16..+12/+7/+2..+10.+5..+10..+9...8..Mental Stability 17..+12/+7/+2..+10.+5..+10..+10..9..Bonus feat 18..+13/+8/+3..+11.+6..+11..+10..9.. 19..+14/+9/+4..+11.+6..+11..+10.10.. 20..+15/+10/+5.+12.+6..+12..+11.10..Bonus feat
___________________________________________________Class
Features All of the following are class features of the
soldier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The
soldier is proficient in all simple and proficiency with one
martial sword (typically longsword). They gain no proficiency
in armor or shields.
The One Power: Use the
Initiate table. (Hard choice, because Wilders gain access to
2-7 weaves earlier. Access to 6 at level 9, rather than 11,
and 7 at level 12, rather than 13).
Affinities:
A soldier begins play with an Affinity for one of the
following Five Powers: Earth, Fire, Spirit.
Talents
and Weaves: Max weave based on Int, with bonus weaves form
Int and Wis. (Though I constantly think about having it for
Wisdom with Charisma for bonus weaves also, Male Channelers
don't seem the "Intellegence" driven channelers that Aes Sedai
are, but Aiel Wise Ones are Initiates too, so who knows? I
might reverse this later.)
Overchanneling:
Overchannel Bonus (+3), note that the fortitude save is higher
for this class than the Wilder.
Weavesight:
Black Tower Initiates gain a +2 bonus to all Weavesight
checks. When learning from a mentor, Black Tower Initiates
gain an additional +3 bonus.
Skill Emphasis
(Concentration): This gives +3 bonus to Concentration
checks (this off sets the limited +3 bonus above, but it
doesn't help when they fail the Concentration
check).
Tradition Customs: --Soldier: Upon
joining the Black Tower (I.E. level 1 of Black Tower Initiate
or running into another Black Tower
Channeler). --Dediciated: Once 2 of the Channeling feats
for Asha'man prestige class are taken and 2 of the skill
prerequisites are met. --Asha'man on taking the Prestige
Class. (Note: Channelers approaching level 10 seem to gain
the M'Hael's supervision, as if to be picked out for special
training [or execution].)
Accelerated Training:
For each level of Black Tower Initiate the Male channeler
gains 1d3 extra madness in addition to the normal 1d6. (the
original 1d6 was pretty heavy handed)
Bonus
Weaves: same (but for rare and lost weaves, you must get
your GM's permission). However things like Create Gateway and
Skimming are taught to all Black Tower Iniatiates (and wilders
that join) if they are able to learn them (if they have Talent
for Traveling).
Bonus feats: Channeler Feat and
Armsman feat tables combined.
Swordsmanship:
Snip, they can use a bonus feat to gain Weapon Focus, getting
a sword prof for free is powerful enough as it is, it is one
of the Asha'man prerequisites.
Slow Aging:
Returned to original: ˝ Channeler
level.
Power-Heightened Senses: as per feat (I
threw this in because it generally isn't taken otherwise, and
it is something that anyone that uses the One Power as much as
the Black Tower Initiate should get. I personally think that
Power-Heightened Senses should give Male Channelers Darkvision
20 ft, and Female Channelers Low-Light Vision; Low-Light
Vision doubles the distance you can see from light sources, so
if it is 10 feet or more radius of light, then a Female with
this feat can see as far or farther. Granting men the
Darkvision ability also promotes seizing Saidin more often and
thus overchanneling).
Handfighting: Snip, use a
bonus feat for Improved Unarmed Strike.
Advanced
Melee: Snip, use a bonus feat (most Black Tower Initiates
will not go beyond 10th level in this class and will go into
Asha'man anyway)
Improved Unarmed Strike: By 9th
level the Black Tower Initiate has learned Improved Unarmed
Strike.
Mental Stability: Should a soldier
survive long enough to reach level 16, he had proven his
mettle to himself as well as others. Drawing on a hidden
reservoir of inner strength, he gains the Mental Stability
feat for free.
---------------------------
Now
for the Reasons: I reduced the HD and removed many of the
given combat feats because, that is what those bonus
feats are for. And because this gets much of what a wilder
gets but without a block. Yes this version
doesn't gain the 2 common weaves a wilder gains every level,
but like someone said before in Initiate vs. Wilder threads,
Initiates learn most of the weaves they need from their
Tradition.
BAB for most Asha'man will be +12/+7/+2 by
level 20 (10 Black Tower Initiate/10 Asha'man).
Lower
Overchannel bonus: The +3 is for both Concentration and
Fortitude checks when overchanneling. This may look like a
short change for them, but see below.
Skill Emphasis
(Concentration): This gives +3 to all concentration checks,
like the one for Overchanneling. But this +3 won't help if the
male fails his Concentration check when overchanneling. (Can
we say: "Bad **** happens to people that overchannel all the
live long day.")
Extra Bonus feat at level 1: If
someone is a Wilder 1 and joins the Black Tower, they will
need 5 more levels in BTI to go into Asha'man for their 7th
Character level, this way a Wilder can still join the highest
rank at character level 6 (5 levels for the 8 concentration
prereq. and +1 level is Asha'man 1).
I tossed in IUS,
because someone found a quote. Improved Unarmed Strike doesn't
grant automatic wound damage, it still requires -4 to do 1d3
wounds.
[ February 12, 2003, 05:51 PM: Message
edited by: JosephKell
]
-------------------- Instant Message me @
JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
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