Author
|
Topic: Death by
Force |
Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
|
posted October 25, 2002 12:02 PM
What would
you all say is an appropriate "Impossible" Encounter for 10th
level characters. Heres the setting. 3 Female channelers, 1
male channeler, 1 Algai'di'siswai, 1 Warder/wolfbrother, 1 mid
level wolfbrother, 1 woodsman(about to be blademaster), 1
Commander(Mount focused), 1 Noble(Ranged attacks), a
Wolfdragon(Dragonne from 3rd ed MM), a powered up wolf(3 HD),
and 9 soldiers(5 archer, 4 sword).
For equipment, they have 2 3rd level
angreal(1 male, 1 female), a 4th level sa'angreal(female),
multiple power wrought blades(3 I think, +1), and a few other
little extras. The channelers are all well equipped with
weaves as well. I'd like to get an encounter for them and how
would it be played.
For an example, they have easily taken out
encounters up to 5 difficulty levels higher then them. At 6th
level, they took out 40 trollocs, 1 trolloc captain(4 levels
of armsman and a power wrought scythesword), and a Myrddraal
quite easily. The only reason it took more then 2 rounds was
the Myrddraal and the Trolloc Captain had a lot of hitpoints.
As my 1 year anniversary of my game is
coming up, I'd like to throw something special at them. I want
to see what kind of stress they can stand up to before
breaking. Having a few choices to pick from would also be
nice. Feel free to use anything from my webpage as I use all
of the rules from it. You can find the webpage below. ![[Devilish]](Wizards_Com Boards Death by Force_fichiers/diablo.gif)
[ October 25, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message
edited by: Shadowkiller
]
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
From:
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Milosh
Member Member # 108275
|
posted October 25, 2002 12:26 PM
I would use
a Gholam i think thats what they are called, I mean it sounds
like these characters are quite powerful to stop 40 trollocs,
Seg. and Fade, in 2 rounds. Use a gholam and watch the blood
drain from the channelers face as there fireball weave
unravels as it get to the gholam, then they better run and
this is when it gets fun, only way around this i think would
be Master Ward, but then i dont know if it would stop a gholam
since it not directed at him, who knows through one of those
in and stir some **** up. Make those lvl 6 characters remake
Not to mention its a good humbling creature for
the players That’s probably what I would do though I’m sure
people will think its a tad OverKill but that bring up the
important question, as far as should we run or should we make
the DM **** a brick as we kill his BIG creature Just a thought from my perspective
You guys
have a safe weekend !!! I will......
From:
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Heron_Marked_Blade Member Member
# 110617
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posted October 25, 2002 12:55 PM
Sounds like
a group used to having their own way with things.
I
don't know what your timeline looks like, but they may have
fun running into a rogue band of Shaido (say, 200+?), or
possibly spending some time in a mirror world being chased by
__________ (<----fill in the blank - a sufficiently
frightening D&D monster would foot the bill) -- anything
to get them out of any ruts they may have fallen in regarding
how they deal with a situation.
How about some
Seanchan with their damane? Has your group faced other
channelers before? What about sea battle? That might be fun,
if you can work it out. A gholam would DEFINITELY test their
resolve, especially since it effectively takes the channelers
out of it. That might be a little extreme, though, unless your
group is creative. If they can't react quickly enough, they
may have fun rolling up new characters.
The Blight sounds like a place most sane
people would avoid, and the fact that no one knows everything
that's up there could allow a GM to deflate any self-satisfied
gamer VERY quickly.
Just my
2cp.
-------------------- "Suravye ninto manshima
taishite."
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted October 25, 2002 12:56 PM
It seems
the problem is the amount of channeling firepower they can put
against an opponent.
Put them in a crowded city -
during a festivel of some sort. Use at least 3 opposing
channelers (There are some premade ones on Call of the Horn.).
I would throw primarily human adversaries at them, to blend
with the crowd (a blademaster, a warder, 6-8 armsmen 3-6th
level, 3 Darkfriend Assassians 7-10th level, and 4 Myrrdraal).
Throw in 6-10 gunch dummies to draw the big nasties and get
the channelers to throw away some weaves.
I would have
the wolf go nutty. Then the gunch dummies come at them, with
hints of the fade to the AS & wolfbrother. If a known or
obvious channeler is present wait till they start channeling
and have them make spot vs one of the DF assassians hide. They
have made their way up in the crowds but to act they will need
to give away thier position.
The two big hitters will
move to engage anyone who approaches the opposing channelers.
Two of the Myrrdraal will move through shadows and decimate
the soldiers.
Make lots of open doors and lots of
obsticales. Enforce LOS rules. Keep one DF assassian moveing
on the rooftops. Hopefully, taking out the Aiel.
You
might need one or two more big hitter since the party is so
big but the tactics should make the day. Good guys will be
split, big offensive spells are out, the Myrrdraal should tear
up the soldiers, too be safe the warder & blademaster will
need to be taken down by a channeler or two -to-one. The
assaissians should keep the party off balance and keep
everyone edgy and less daring. Keep the bad guys moving into
and out of LOS.
If they get brave with the area of
effect spells, have some members of which ever elite guard
resides in the area (defenders of the stone, queens guard, the
companions) exit a building nearby. In the carnage they assume
the PCs who disreguard "collateral damage" to be the enemy in
league with the shadowspawn.
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
From:
Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
|
posted October 25, 2002 01:14 PM
Wow, some
good stuff so far. First thing I'd like to say is if they die,
it doesn't matter, this will be a test of their skills thusfar
and only for fun since it will be our anniversary.
I've
thought about the gholam idea before. A single gholam would
get slaughtered by my group. The non-channelers are in high
enough proportion to handle it. But if I throw a few other
things in there, the gholam might be a little much, dunno,
haven't tried. 2 or 3 gholams would probably also be a bit
much.
My channelers have faced other channelers before,
quite easily. In fact, just before that 40 trolloc thing, they
faced 2 10th level black ajah and beat them senseless. Just
this last week, our male channeler took on 6 Black
ajah(between 10 and 15th level) and managed to deal a good
amount of damage. He only lasted 2 rounds since he was alone,
but it was enough. Then the person I consider my most powerful
channeler took on 3 of them(linked), broke through their
shield and toasted them in one round with fireballs(double
weave, feat on my website).
I really like your strategy
Eosin. It might just work, till the people on the streets
start running for their lives with a Myrddraal around. As soon
as the streets are clear, Mass destruction. But there is
enough going on, I might just get them anyway. Keep em coming
people, I'm loving it.
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
|
posted October 25, 2002 01:25 PM
Hostile
channelers (assuming you aren't Darkfriends, Darkfriends,
Seanchan, Shiado, and insane male wilders are all
possiblities) would probably be helpful in slowing them down.
I strongly suspect your characters are relying heavily on the
Power if they're winning while badly outnumbered.
Are
your characters mostly 'good' (they aren't Darkfriends, don't
like killing civilians, and such)? If so, it's very easy to
use social conventions (the law in Tear or Amadacia,
Whitecloaks) to keep them from channeling.
Are your
channlers afiliated with any larger groups? If not, the Aes
Sedai could cause problems for them even if they're not
Darkfriends or otherwise
evil.
-------------------- Dave Rothgery Picking
nits since 1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted October 25, 2002 01:25 PM
double
post....
[ October 25, 2002, 02:06 PM: Message
edited by: Eosin_the_Red
]
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
From:
Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
|
posted October 25, 2002 01:29 PM
Are the
hostile channelers you're creating as well-optimised and as
well-played as the PCs? 6 10-15th level channelers with
reasonable non-channeling support should have wiped out a
10th-level party foolish enough not to
run.
-------------------- Dave Rothgery Picking
nits since 1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Wowbangers the
Infinitely Prolonged Member Member
# 101183
|
posted October 25, 2002 01:41 PM
Well, if
you are looking for something properly nasty, you could make a
lvl 15 or so shadar bekkar (one of the prestige classes I
posted for the PrC challenge). I have used them before in a
campaign *giggles* and it, well, suffice to say there was much
remaking of characters. Make him like lvl 10 shadar bekkar and
5 wilder. Will end up with a will save on the up side of 20-25
(to irk channelers), and an insane amount of bonus weaves.
Since he is can't duke it out is hand to hand (due to your
heroe's small army), you should give him some body guards,
maybe a couple lvl 6-8 wilders as apprentices and 4 lvl 6
armsman, 2 lvl 10 blademasters as the last line guards. Don't
forget, the Shadar Bekkar is not a darkfriend/ shadowspawn,
they are simply very corrupt.
-------------------- I
have gone out to look for myself. If I should happen to return
before I get back, please tell myself to wait.
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
|
posted October 25, 2002 01:49 PM
The
channelers are always well optimized. I make my channelers as
deadly as possible. The problem that seems to take place is
the speed at which my group incapacitates the channelers as
well as the ability of my group to save against the channeler.
For instance, the 3 linked Aes Sedai tried to shield my
strongest channeler. I have edited rules for shield which
changed the DC to 29 for that particular casting. She still
saved.
Also because I optimize the channeling side of
my channelers, they aren't always the fastest off the
initiative block, letting 3 or 4 characters get in (My
Algai'di'siswai has a +15 init) attacks before the bad guys go
at all. Perhaps I just need to find a good mix of classes to
maximize all parts of them, making them more
deadly.
I'll check out that Shadar Bekkar
too.
[ October 25, 2002, 01:50 PM: Message
edited by: Shadowkiller
]
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
|
posted October 25, 2002 02:12 PM
Between
positioning and non-channeler guards (if you're really nasty,
some of these are either Warders or Myrddral with class
levels), no mundane attack should be able to get to a hostile
channeler in one round.
-------------------- Dave
Rothgery Picking nits since
1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
|
posted October 25, 2002 03:57 PM
It can with
the +27 hide Algai'di'siswai standing within 40 feet of the
channeler and a well placed fireball takes out a large chunk
of the guards. ![[Mad]](Wizards_Com Boards Death by Force_fichiers/mad.gif)
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
From:
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
|
posted October 25, 2002 04:26 PM
First, I'd
remove their support. I'm assuming that not all of the stats
you gave were for PCs. NPC support characters can be written
out, and it's clear the players don't need
them.
Second, I do like the Gholam idea, but the Gholam
stats given in the book are severely underpowered. If you
don't mind making him a bit more powerful (maxed out SW
RPG-style martial arts, for one, and up strength and dex to
overshadow a Myrdraal, and keep the damage reduction even
against Power-wrought weapons--and after all that, then you
give him a few extra levels), he should give the channelers a
hard time. He'll need some support against the fighters,
though.
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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--Erwin--
Member Member # 89492
|
posted October 26, 2002 01:56 AM
Send some
war vets on`em. 5 x 9 lvl veteran whitecloaks or something. Of
course a golam is an unbeatable foe for the pc`s. They would
indeed have a hard time struggling against 13 black ajah. And
you can use the dark one`s special forces (Exctremely well
trained marshall arts humans) ![[Razz]](Wizards_Com Boards Death by Force_fichiers/tongue.gif)
-------------------- Erwin Arynn of the
Dawn Runners
From:
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Jkol the
Butcher Member Member
# 106364
|
posted October 26, 2002 02:19 AM
Destroy the
Channelers! Here are a few ways
1) Many little
channelers: A group of 13 wilders lvl 1 or 2 led by a lvl 3
wilder with a talent in warding and a spirit affinity can
easily try and shield up to a lvl 7 channeler of the same
gender. Given the wilder's overchannel (make sure they have a
+1 bonus to con) of aprox: +12 (6 skill, 1 con, 5 wilder
bonus) they should be able to try and shield a character of
any level more than 50% of the time - throw many of these
groups in with melee support and watch the carnage. This
method I find works well to freak out a group but if even 1
channeler is not shielded 1st round the battle is all but
lost. 13 people standing in a cirlce holding hands - and
having relatively few hp make inviting fireball targets.
2) Median Channelers: These should have plentiful
melee and ranged backup - then instead of trying to tackle the
4 channelers singlehandely - ward vs. the one power. The
backup stays in the protected radius - archers pelt the
channelers to oblivion while blademasters and other melee
types hold back their stronarms. Once the channelers are down
for the count - the enemy channeler drops the ward and
unleashes his/her true might
3) Big channelers: Insert one to five
level 15+ Channelers have one ward vs. people to keep strongarms out,
and then use harden air to stop ranged attacks. The others
should proceed to mulch the parties channelers. In this case
go for sever - even if it doesn't work it should deflate their
ego quite a bit. And the more times it is tried the more the
likelyhood of that fatal 1 on a will save. Ignoring that there
are not likely that many channelers of high level - several of
these encounters should be enough to ensure cringing upon the
sight of any other human being.
*** Disclamer: As GM
Sever should not be used lightly - In fact it should only be
used in the event you want to seriously maim or destroy a
party ***
-------------------- Self Proclaimed
Member # 001 of the Kill Paladins and Join the Blackguards
Foundation (KPJBF)
We are the Sorg. You and your sig
will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. (Please put this
in your sig to show that it has been asimilated.)
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Harkael
Member Member # 104966
|
posted October 26, 2002 05:02 PM
I agree
with the gholam. Not much else could scare the bejeezus out of
them like a Gholam w/ better dam reduction (5/+2) or whatever
is better than the swords you have, and some class
levels. That alone would reck havoc on your party. However
it practically takes your channelers out of the fight (unless
there are some very large boulders to throw....) So rather
than fight one nigh-invincible beastie, just go with Eosin's
idea. heh...maybe just keep the gholam on backup...depending
on how evil youre feeling at the
moment....
-------------------- "What do you mean I
missed? but i rolled....an......18..."
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted October 28, 2002 12:59 PM
You really
want to kill them? Hit them with the Big Battle.
I'd
say drop them in Tarwin's Gap and hit them with wave after
wave after wave of Shadowspawn. Sure, they can take out 40
trollocs and a halfman. Can they take out 8000 trollocs and 40
halfmen? How about 80,000 trollocs?
By the end the
channelers will be out of weaves and the fighters will start
run out of hit points. They may be standing on a 50' high pile
of dead trollocs, but they will start to wear down... and the
horde keeps coming. It doesn't matter how many they kill. For
every trolloc who dies, two more arrive to take it's place.
Eventually, the party will fall or flee.
Heck, it
could even be fun sesson, if you kept the descriptions vivid
and your players enjoy the action/combat side of things. You
just have to be carefull not to fall into the "roll to hit.
you hit. roll damage. it dies. the next trolloc steps up."
kinda thing.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
|
posted October 28, 2002 02:06 PM
I can't
quite shake the impression that something's not quite right.
Some of the opponents Shadowkiller has described should have
been able to beat his PCs as a described. More than that, they
should have been able to do so easily. Certainly a 10th-level
party with 4 channelers isn't taking out a six 10 th-level and
higher Black Ajah led by a 15th-level Black Ajah (And where
did the 15th-level BA come from, anyway? Cadsuane's evil
twin?) if the BA have any kind of reasonable
support.
-------------------- Dave
Rothgery Picking nits since
1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted October 28, 2002 05:07 PM
I think it
is likely to be tactics. A channeler can beat anyone, even
more powerful channelers if they can arrange the circumstances
to thier choosing.
BA are not necessiarily going to
cooperate and use the most solid tactics while PCs almost
always will. I do agree that played ruthlessly that is an
unwinable situation.
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
From:
Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Shadowkiller
Member Member # 110597
|
posted October 28, 2002 09:03 PM
Well the
15th level BA came as I was bumping up NPCs in PotD. The
tactics behind the BA was to remain inconspicuous as they fled
with their quarry. The PC's didt care about throwing around
fireballs and such, but the BA sure did.
The male
channeler made the drop on them and managed to drop a 50ft
radius fireball in their midst, which everyone in the region
saw. This dropped every one of the BA by half of their hp, at
least. only two managed to save. They took it directly out of
hit hide with immolate, rend, and a little thing the player of
that character drew up, steal the soul.
3 of the BA
took off then, leaving the others to take care of bodies and
such. Then 3 of my other players happened upon them, but not
without the BA getting the drop on them. They decided
shielding the powerful wilder would let the BM do his thing,
continuing to remain inconspicuous, hopefully. Unfortunately
the shield failed. My wilder saved vs DC 29 shield. She took
her turn to throw two 50ft fireballs, using the double weave
feat on my website, and finished off everything that was left
except the BM.
The BM, with less then half hp,
challenged the fighters to a one-on-one dual to his death,
knowing the wilder could kill him in an instant. They agreed
and he did close to 200 points of damage to multiple
characters/creatures before they did 35 points of damage to
him. I enjoyed that at the least. But as you see, it wasn't
that they got me with tactics, they just got the jump and it
happens a lot.
-------------------- Children of
the Dragon ^My Website^
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted October 28, 2002 09:33 PM
SK - that
is almost exactly what I meant. The players had the one up.
Good tactics with the drop and multiple channelers is hard to
beat.
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
From:
Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
|
posted October 29, 2002 03:47 AM
We are, of
course, remember the Three Oaths... of course these are
darkfriends so they're exempt. We are also remembering the
massive social and political consquences of using the One
Power as a weapon...
...the frieghtened people who
will no longer deal with them,
...the Whitecloak
assassins who will kill them from hiding,
...the
Whitecloak officers who will rally the frieghtened people by
saying "Here, we have proof that the Aes Sedai are evil. You
see what they can do despite their lies about. You see that
they must be stopped."
...and of course, the Aes Sedai
coming down on them like a ton of bricks for doing things that
will make the people afraid, send assassins after them and
give the Whitecloaks the "proof" they need to say such things.
The Aes Sedai who will set them on a very small farm in Black
Hills hoeing turnips for the next 150 years... after gentleing
the male channeler of course.
Channelers can kill rip
appart their foes with the Power. The reason they don't
(Asha'man excepted) is because of the social consquences if
they did.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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