Author
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Topic: Channeller in
D&D (again) |
Merclaar
Member Member # 67223
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posted August 26, 2002 12:33 AM
It's only a
idee, I'm not shure about it....
What about a
Channeller in D&D without changes but with a +ECL? And
when, how high should the ECL be?
Opinions
please.
cu
-------------------- cu
-- Merclaar
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Dalmuti
Member Member # 29638
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posted August 26, 2002 01:09 AM
I'm
currently playing a Channeler in a Dragonstar campaign of all
things! My current character is a Wilder, and I am right now
at 5th level. Here are my observations.... In my opinion
the Channeler classes do not need an ECL or anything, it seems
to be balanced... sorta. In my opinion the Channeler classes
suffer from themeatic elements from the WoT Books (good thing
in the Wot RPG) but when taken directly into D&D it
suffers problems. ON the wilder front the +5 bonus to
overchanneling and other themeatic stuff makes the class
overpowered. I am not sure how the Initiate class fares. My
suggestion is to combine the Wilder and Initiate into one
class... and possibly get rid of overchanneling. I think the
Initiate Spell Progression, and Spell learning, with the
Wilders bonus feats, makes a playable class. I have found that
overchanneling at even my level is a bit overpowered (combined
with the Wilders early access to weaves at lower level). I
would also suggest that the Harden Air weave is at to low of a
level, and that Spell Resistance should be allowed for it
despite the fact it is an area Weave and not a target weave.
My suggestion is to rase it by at least a level per
effect. To make it easier to get weaves, I would allow a
Weavesight/Spellcraft check to learn Weaves that are Simular
to D&D spells (Like Fireball for example). I would also
allow Channelers to use Weavesight to detect any spells, so
that Channelers have their own Detect Magic spell. I would
also suggest that when put along side D&D Wizards, to make
Channelers simply another type of Mage... perhaps replacing
the Sorcerer class or something. But all in all they are a
balanced class versus D&D classes (With the above
changes). Just experement in your own game, and make sure the
Channeler player knows that to make the game fair (and thus
fun) for everybody you may put some new limits on them, and
change their abilities. It's a process to discover how it
fits, but once you get to a happy medium they make a good
addition to the D&D
game.
-------------------- Crackers Do
Matter!!!
From:
Orange, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Grayswandir_Blade Member Member
# 92933
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posted August 26, 2002 08:37 AM
I would
suggest, for one thing, making those two damn air weaves
weaker. That's one of the few things that make channelers
overpowered compared to D&D wiz/sor.
Also, just
wondering Damulti, but what's your theory for the
inter-dimensional issue? I mean, how does a WoT channeler
exist in a D&D world? I've developed my own thing, but
it's based on Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber novels...and
I think I already typed it up on a similar thread, not sure
![[Razz]](Wizards_Com Boards Channeller in D&D (again)_fichiers/tongue.gif)
-------------------- "We laugh in the face
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theSaj
Member Member # 96041
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posted August 27, 2002 06:38 AM
Simple,
I have a character who is arriving at
such via a portal stone...makes sense to
me!
-------------------- "To Die is to Live No
More!"
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New Haven, Connecticut | Registered: Jul 2002
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Master of the
Squirrel's Member Member
# 68430
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posted August 28, 2002 09:29 AM
What Air
Weaves do you speak of? I am fairly new to WoT, and just
trying to figure out all that is in the
books.
-------------------- This is the way the
world ends This is the way the world ends This is the
way the world ends
Not with a bang, but with a
whimper. ------------------------ Feed My Monster PLEASE!
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Merclaar
Member Member # 67223
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posted August 28, 2002 11:29 AM
I supose
harden air and arms of
air
-------------------- cu
-- Merclaar
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Master of the
Squirrel's Member Member
# 68430
|
posted August 28, 2002 05:48 PM
Wouldn't
Balefire also be completely broken? I mean, it lets you
actually completely wipe something out of existence INCLUDING
it's past self.
-------------------- This is the way
the world ends This is the way the world ends This is
the way the world ends
Not with a bang, but with a
whimper. ------------------------ Feed My Monster PLEASE!
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Wowbangers the
Infinitely Prolonged Member Member
# 101183
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posted August 28, 2002 05:51 PM
Thats why
its such a crazy high level. ![[Smile]](Wizards_Com Boards Channeller in D&D (again)_fichiers/smile.gif)
[ August 28, 2002, 05:52 PM: Message
edited by: Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged
]
-------------------- I have gone out to
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TheOnePowerman5000 Member Member
# 75426
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posted August 29, 2002 07:24 PM
IMO I don't
think that it would be possible to mix the One Power and dnd
magic! Magic systems are usually meant to accomodate one type
of arcane power. However, psionics or possibly the force from
star wars would work fairly well in conjunction with ONE
arcane system. Again, with the OP and magic, you would first
have to balance the systems, find parallels between the two
such that channelers couldn't merely block wizards and
sorcerers, and address other compatibility issues. BUT, if you
decided to treat the One Power as a force similar to the
Force, then it could be possible... I don't know, I would have
to sit down and work on it, which I don't feel like doing,
because as I said before, I think that more than one arcane
system becomes confusing.
-------------------- I
don't really like Powerman5000, I just thought the name was
clever.
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Harwinton, CT | Registered: Apr 2002
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odin181
Member Member # 103956
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posted September 03, 2002 08:30 AM
could you
not just replace dnd magic w/ the one power?
If you
wanted to play dnd but didn't care for it's magic
system.
-------------------- prick your finger it is
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From:
kentucky | Registered: Aug 2002 |
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Kamilis
Member Member # 63363
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posted September 03, 2002 10:03 AM
I honestly
don't see why there would be a need for an ECL, sure the one
power system is much more powerful in some areas and you can
use it more often per day, but you don't get nearly the
variety as any magic class, which makes the magic class equal
out the channeler. Can you imagine placing a 20th level wizard
in Wheel of Time, just take a minute and think about how much
power that wizard would have. Teleportation, Cloud Kill,
Contingencies, Improved Invisibility, Reverse Gravity.
Prismatic Wall, the summon monster line of spells, Iron Body,
Polymorph spells, Time Stop, and Wish, just to name a few. In
the end, a wizard is much, much more powerful. Not to mention
if you would plan on adding an ECL to the class you would have
to think about how it stacks up against other class, like lets
say Cleric, there is no way a channeler is as useful as a
cleric.
Also in my opinion just to make it simple, One
Power and Magic is completely different, so when it says one
power, it is talking about the one power, and when it says
magic, it is talking about magic. I don't see how that could
be very complicated
[ September 03, 2002, 10:06
AM: Message edited by: Kamilis ]
From:
Oregon | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP:
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
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posted September 04, 2002 04:32 PM
A "naked"
wizard will be creamed by a "naked" channeler. Truth. (Naked
as in no magic items) Reason: Wizard's were designed for a
game with magic items. Channelers were designed for a game
where a +1 longsword is fought over like farmland.
I
can see how Channelers would fit in Dragonstar with minimal
changes (if any). In DragonStar you have energy weapons, no
one buys (or makes) wands of magic missile because they aren't
cost effective if you can buy a Blaster Pistol! Other than
always hitting you will deal generally less damage. Blasters
can be used at BAB like any other weapon.
Channelers in
D&D is different, VERY VERY different. In D&D you have
magic armors, you have magic items (compared to WoT, every PC
and his/her mama's mama has a +3 weapon!). A good way to limit
(nerf) a channeler is to have magic items not work for them to
a degree. Maybe they can use +1-3 weapons and Rings of Warmth
(waste of a ring unless you plan to visit places like the 8th
level of Hell! Burrrrrr). But Rings of protection and Amulets
of Natural Armor should also have a cap for channelers, unless
you dump their class defense bonus (which is nice, I wish all
D&D classes had it, but then monks are nerfed, who likes
monks anyway?!?! ::shoots a monk that stands up:: See noone
::shoots another monk that tries to protest:: )
A wizard with a mantle of spell resistance
and a few intellegence pumping items against a still "naked"
channeler equals a big crater! and maybe 1 person still
standing!
Channelers are like the best of wizards and
sorcerers. They cast spontaneously (like a sorcerer) and they
learn weaves by watching them, so they can learn all of them
basicly (like a wizard)!
The only balance already in
place is a lack of item creation by channelers and their need
of affinities and talents. Which probably argues against most
of my previous statements.
Easy way to bring Channelers
to D&D: Make all weaves "common" except Restore the One
Power (keep that lost), dump Balefire or replace it with a
descintegrate like effect (starts with 100 hp worth of
burning, +20 per +1 casting level, that is like level 56-58
for 1100 hp of burning! that is one BIG link to toast that
dragon!) Keep the class defense bonus, and add in arcane spell
failure (to limit armor) and limit magic item use (like no
Ioun stones to boost Int, Wis, and Cha and other items that
boost those skills).
Hope that helps
[
September 04, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell
]
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Wowbangers the
Infinitely Prolonged Member Member
# 101183
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posted September 04, 2002 04:36 PM
quote:
A
"naked" wizard will be creamed by a "naked"
channeler.
'Whew', you had me worried there for a
minute.
[ September 04, 2002, 04:39 PM: Message
edited by: Wowbangers the Infinitely Prolonged
]
-------------------- I have gone out to
look for myself. If I should happen to return before I get
back, please tell myself to wait.
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Dalmuti
Member Member # 29638
|
posted September 07, 2002 02:20 AM
Sorry I
haven't responded in over two weeks, I wish there was a better
reason than I've been lazy, but there really isn't. So
anyhoo Grayswandir_Blade I don't know how you handle the
inter-dimensional problems. Portal stones or whatever work for
me, honestly it doesn't really come up in Dragonstar all that
much. As for why Channelers work in Dragonstar I think
JosephKell is right, because of the uber-weapons. FYI I don't
use the Defense bonus, or the reputation, but I use the BAB,
and saves (including the "medium" save that Wilders get), and
bonus feats. As I said I think if you made the spell
progression like that of the Initiate, took away
overchanneling, and toned down Aims of Air, and Harden Air
that everything would be balanced. But that might not be
enough. I won't get into specifics... but there was a game
recently where I overchanneled a heck of a lot, used all my
slots up (putting hardened air holes through Aircraft and
all), and oh my lordy I was like a god in that game. And I
figured out a REALLY cheap tactic (which again would only work
in Dragonstar... unless you had Brilliant Arrows), I Hardened
Air around a Drow (no spell resistance cuz I'm not targeting
him, just the air around the drow) and then Blaster Pistoled
him in the head, insta-kill. It isn't always easy to do
(Reflex saves and all), but it works. I dunno that Weave is
REALLY broken. My final suggestion would be that thinking
about it, Channelers shouldn't be able to learn new weaves
from Arcane casters. Maybe in D&D they shouldn't learn new
ones at all, execpt at every level. I don't agree with
TheOnePowerman5000, I think you could add in Channelers into
D&D. There are more than just 3 flavors of magic (Arcane,
Divine, and Psionic) in my opinion. Channelers leave you a lot
of options. You could replace them with Sorcerers so they
would be VASTLY different from Wizards. Or you could add them
as a new type of magic, like maybe something a new scary enemy
culture could have. Or perhaps like in this quasi-celtic
campaign I'm thinking of, Channelers could be a type of magic
associated with the Fey. I don't think you should limit
yourself into thinking that there can't be Channelers cuz
there are only 3 flavors of magic. Lastly I just have one
question for you all. How would you handle Channelers creating
magic items in a D&D world? Beyond simple weapons +1-5 and
armor +1-5 I can't figure out how they could do it, save
making up a new list of enhancements and items that they can
do.
[ September 07, 2002, 02:22 AM: Message
edited by: Dalmuti
]
-------------------- Crackers Do
Matter!!!
From:
Orange, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted September 07, 2002 04:04 PM
I don't
think a blaster can shoot through Harden Air... Blasters don't
fire Light, they fire energy, which is why the element effect
in the book is "Lightning" because even Lightning needs a
medium to travel from point A to point B, and it usually
Ionizes the stuff between. Now Lasers fire "Coherent
Light."
here is another thing that is fun... Lasers
bounce off mirrors... Blaster Blasts don't! he he
he.
for using Harden Air in D&D and DragonStar,
look at it like Wall of Force... Most stuff can't get through
it, but Discitagrate will destroy
it...
-------------------- Instant Message me @
JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
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