Author
|
Topic: Why a
spell-based magic system? |
LordDaemon
Member Member # 105732
|
posted September 12, 2002 09:51 AM
I have
partly read the WoT game now, and I'm completely baffled by
the choice for a spell-based magic system. Does anyone know
why the designers chose this? It seems to me that a free-form
magic system is the only thing which could capture the feeling
of magic in the books. The One Power is so essentially
non-spell-based that I don't understand the choice for this
mechanic.
-------------------- Free RPGs? Sure! What
about the brilliantly original classic The Pool? Or the beta version of my own Eternal Worlds.
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The Great Gray
Skwid Member Member
# 34606
|
posted September 12, 2002 10:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LordDaemon: The One
Power is so essentially non-spell-based that I don't
understand the choice for this mechanic.
What gives you this impression? There are specific
weaves to do specific things...you can't just want to do
something and force the Power to your will, unless that
something is very simple.
Rand is an exception to how
channelers learn in almost every regard, as are many of the
other channelers we get POVs from (Nyn, frex). You have to be
*taught* how to do things. If you're figuring them out on your
own, then you're not likely to get very much high powered and
complicated stuff. This is all well reflected by the weave
system, IMNSHO. Rand, of course, has impinging past-life
memories that helped him do things, even before he had
instruction from Joar
Addam.
-------------------- Evan "Skwid"
Langlinais The Humblest Mollusk on the Net http://www.thehumblest.net/ Ask me for
information about the Texas Darkfriends!
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LordDaemon
Member Member # 105732
|
posted September 12, 2002 10:47 AM
Magical
effects are created by weaving together strands of magic.
Obviously, this allows for a limiteless amount of weaves to be
created - in principle, any effect which is not too strong
could be created. How does the spell-based thing come into
this? Anyone who can channel a weave with complexity A, could
try to channel any other weave with that complexity - exactly
as most free form spell-systems would allow you
to.
-------------------- Free RPGs? Sure! What about
the brilliantly original classic The Pool? Or the beta version of my own Eternal Worlds.
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dscrank
Member Member # 56185
|
posted September 12, 2002 11:13 AM
I was
experimenting with creating a free form system, based partly
on the rune magic system in the computer game "The Four
Crystals of Trazere." How it worked in that game was that the
adventurers discovered runes one by one, and once they had the
correct runes, they could string them together to create their
own spells. So if they had the runes for Projectile, Area
Effect, Harm, and Heal, they could string together Projectile,
Area Affect, and Harm to get a Fireball, or Area Affect and
Heal, to heal everyone in the vicinity.
The idea I was
playing with allowed you to string together components. Each
component had a complexity and a vitality cost (yes, I needed
a WP/VP system for this). The complexity determined how long
it took to put together the "spell" and the DC whenever you
had to make a concentration check, while the vitality was how
much it cost to actually activate the "spell." So with the
same components you could string together a fireball, a flame
aura, a flame arrow, etc. You could place some restrictions on
which components could be used together (no area effect with
instant death, for example), or just make it prohibitively
expensive to put together. Since the GM still decided which
components the players learned, he had more control than with
a free-form system, but it still gave the players a lot of
flexibility.
-------------------- -Donald S.
Crankshaw
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Melriken
Member Member # 48882
|
posted September 12, 2002 11:21 AM
you weave
together the threads of the one power to create effects, but
most patterns dont hold, they fall appart, only specific
patterns actually snap together and create a real weave, and
it is these weaves that are listed in the books. Not all of
these are listed, just the ones we have seen used, you could
experamint and create a new weave... just like you can
research and create a new spell in DnD.
there are
references in the books of weaves snaping together as you add
the last thread, and when you take a thread out, the whole
structure starts to unravel, because it isnt stable without
being complete... atleast that is my impression, your view may
be different.
as for the best magic system, I would
have gone with a system like the starwars force system... but
then that is just me
-------------------- The prior
post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or
opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted September 12, 2002 12:13 PM
quote:
Magical
effects are created by weaving together strands of magic.
Obviously, this allows for a limiteless amount of weaves to
be created - in principle, any effect which is not too
strong could be created. How does the spell-based thing come
into this? Anyone who can channel a weave with complexity A,
could try to channel any other weave with that complexity -
exactly as most free form spell-systems would allow you
to.
While intuitive to us, this is not the way Wheel of
Time works. We have hundreds of example of how characters
cannot do something, even though they are capable of much
greater feats and complexity with the one power.
It is
not based simply on the elemental aspects - some people
obviously have talents in different areas (Egwenes Earth
Delving). I will bet that Nyn can create a more powerful
healing weave than any channeler alive, yet she could not do
the same with riven earth. Why? Her advanced healing weaves
require all threads - including fire. We know that she is not
the most powerful channeler alive. People in the WoT have
talents that often transcend the elemental aspect of
it.
The Aes Sedai and others are taught by rote what
they can and cannot do. Very, very few can break out of that
pattern. In fact Nyn & Damer have shown that the Forsaken
have exactly the same limitations. IF it cant be done, it
can't be done, until someone who does not know it can't be
done does it.
Personally, I think Hero system works
well with a MPP for standard Aes Sedai and a VPP for Rand and
a few of the rule breakers. However, the system we have does
the job it is supposd to do and that is emulate the books.
Ars Magica and Mage would probably work. I have heard
people talk about it around here. Mage seems like an
impossible game to me (I have only played in3 sessions
thought). My poor GM had to spend Will everytime I got the
chance to cut loose. I fail to see how the free form would
capture the spirit of the schools & talents that dominate
the books.
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
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LordDaemon
Member Member # 105732
|
posted September 12, 2002 01:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Eosin_the_Red: I fail
to see how the free form would capture the spirit of the
schools & talents that dominate the
books.
As a matter of a fact, I think that would be extremely
easy. You've got 5 skills: Earth, Fire, Air, Water, Spirit -
much easier than thinking up schools a la D&D. Now,
everyone has a certain score in these 5 powers - whether this
is a 0-5 or a 0-20 scale, or anything else, doesn't really
matter.
Next, make a short overview about which kind of
effects use which powers.
Add a fatigue-system or a
spell-point system, and you're ready to go. The player says:
'I want to cast a spell which does A', the GM tells him what
happens and how much fatigue it costs him.
To me, this
would be far more akin to the books than a spell-based system.
And I'm not alone. I told a few friends of mine "the WoT RPG
uses a spell-based magic system", and their mouths dropped
open.
-------------------- Free RPGs? Sure! What
about the brilliantly original classic The Pool? Or the beta version of my own Eternal Worlds.
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
|
posted September 12, 2002 02:32 PM
LD, I
understand that you can see the same free form system as Mage
to be more flexible, but the problem I see with that is Mage
is based off a skill point system, as you gain experience you
can build skills with that experiance. The higher the skill,
the more experience it costs. This is essentially D20, which
is set up to build off a level based system. Furthermore,
using your example for a basis, how would that system
replicate exceptional ability within a certian aspect of the
system i.e. -talents. Furthermore, you use fatigue or spell
points, What difference is that from using the current system,
or if you want even more flexibility using Ishameals system
(all the levels for a pool to draw from)
Also,
according to the novels, the channelers cannot do anything
that they can imagine within their abilities, in fact unless
shown most cannot come up with anything new. To further use
Eosin's example. Nyneave uses all five of the affinities in
her healing weaves, while she has little ability in
Earthsinging (at least none shown so far). We know that some
of the healing weaves she uses is pretty high in power, so by
using your system she would be able to cast just about
anything (from all five elements).
Also how would you
explain "Lost Talents" such as making ter'angreal and
Traveling.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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Mantyluoto
Member Member # 101169
|
posted September 12, 2002 02:41 PM
is there a
set of rules for creating new weaves? just in case my players
(all 2 of them) decide to ask. its been a very long day and i
cant find any.
-------------------- "the last
embrace of the mother welcome you home"
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Wowbangers the
Infinitely Prolonged Member Member
# 101183
|
posted September 12, 2002 02:55 PM
No, I don't
think that their is, but given a few days and a few cases of
Mountain Dew maybe I can think something up. I remember that
the crazy 5th Age DragonLance rpg had an intresting magic
system. Maybe it could be
adapted...
-------------------- I have gone out to
look for myself. If I should happen to return before I get
back, please tell myself to wait.
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Mantyluoto
Member Member # 101169
|
posted September 12, 2002 03:06 PM
quote:
No, I
don't think that their is, but given a few days and a few
cases of Mountain Dew maybe I can think something up.
i'm not familiar with mountain dew is that what you use
for a caffeine fix (hey it could even be alcohol i wouldn't
even know it) me i just use Doctor Pepper (Try it you'll love
it).
I'm gonna look at 3rd edit to see what the rules
are for spell creation and have a think...... ![[Dubious]](Wizards_Com Boards Why a spell-based magic system_fichiers/dubious.gif)
-------------------- "the last embrace of
the mother welcome you home"
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Freya
Member Member # 93267
|
posted September 12, 2002 03:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mantyluoto: is there
a set of rules for creating new weaves? just in case my
players (all 2 of them) decide to ask. its been a very long
day and i cant find any.
As far as I know there aren't any rules for weave
creation. GM-discretion most likely.
As for the 'free
magic' system idea...our group played using the Earthdawn
system before d20 came out. We didn't use Earthdawn's magic
system, discipline structure, or circle level advancemen...
just the idea of having Talents (like skills) that raised at
different values depending on how advanced they were.
So, to add a depth level to LordDaemon's idea...we had
talents for every sphere (Air, Water, Spirit, etc) broken down
into two different talents: Weaving and Force. So someone
could have a high Air Weaving total, but be overall weak in
Air Force. The talents raised differently depending on the
gender of the channeler, Air and Water raising easiest for
Women, followed by Earth and Fire, and finally Spirit (also
most expensive for men).
Our GM determined a long list
of weaves that were flexible (we only had the player's
list...no balefire and other powerful stuff). Weaves required
a minimum of one thread Weaving test, and had an assoiated
Force test to determine the result. Difficult weaves like
Traveling required 5 thread weavings of 3 different affinities
(1 Air,1 Fire, and 3 Spirit) with Spirit Force determining the
resultant Gateway.
It was a cool system. Allowed for
powerful, but inexperienced people (high Force, low Weaving).
Or, people like the Kin who may not be powerful (low Force),
but very deft at weaving (high Weaving).
just my 2
cents, ![[Big Grin]](Wizards_Com Boards Why a spell-based magic system_fichiers/biggrin.gif)
-------------------- felicia AKA Freya
Culadin
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Melriken
Member Member # 48882
|
posted September 12, 2002 04:16 PM
how about
something like: each weave is a skill with wisdom as the
key ability each talent is a feat that gives weaves of that
talent as class skills (otherwise they are (cc)) each
element is a progression of three feats as
below
Minor Elemental Mastery: earth you are
good with weaving earth based weaves Prerequisites:
Channeling ability Benefit: you get a +1 Mastery bonus to
all weaves of the [earth] element when you cast a weave
with [earth] as the only element for that weave, or you have
minor elemental mastery in all elements of that weave you gain
a +1 synergy bonus to it as well. Special: a female
channeler can not select this feat as a bonus channeler feat
from any of her classes.
Elemental Mastery:
water you are good with weaving water based
weaves Prerequisites: Channeling ability, Minor Elemental
Mastery: water Benefit: you get a +2 Mastery bonus to all
weaves of the [water] element when you cast a weave with
[water] as the only element for that weave, or you have
elemental mastery in all elements of that weave you gain a +2
synergy bonus to it as well. Special: a male channeler can
not select this feat as a bonus channeler feat from any of his
classes.
Major Elemental Mastery: spirit you
are good with weaving spirit based weaves Prerequisites:
Channeling ability, Minor Elemental Mastery: spirit, Elemental
Mastery: spirit Benefit: you get a +3 Mastery bonus to all
weaves of the [spirit] element when you cast a weave with
[spirit] as the only element for that weave, or you have major
elemental mastery in all elements of that weave you gain a +3
synergy bonus to it as well. Special: a channeler can not
select this feat as a bonus channeler feat from any of his or
her classes.
if you cast restore the power with all
five major masterys, you would get a +3 Mastery bonus from
each of the five feats, and a +3 synergy bonus from all five
feats, for a total of +6 to the weave (bonuses of the same
name don't stack)
weaves would have a DC of 10 + 4 per
weave level ie 0th level weaves are DC 10, 5th level weaves
are DC 30
the save DC would be determined the same as
in the current game wilders would get bonus feats at 2, 6,
10, 14, and 18 initiates would get bonus feats at 1, 2, 5,
8, 11, 14, 17, and 20 initiates are HD d6 wilders are HD
d8 initiates get 8 skills a level wilders get 6 and
weave do an amount of subdual damage to the user equal to 1 +
2*weave level or 1 damage for a 0th level weave, 3 for a
first, 21 for a 10th
angreal, linking, and
overchanneling give +4 per point to your weave skills, and
prevent 2 points of subdual damage per point bonus
hmm,
I think I like this
system...
-------------------- The prior post is in
no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of
the author. Read at your own risk.
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted September 12, 2002 04:39 PM
I think a
better way would be to do a second round of
Affinities:
Extra Affinity II: You are even better
with an Affinity. Prerequisite: All Five Affinities
(I). Benefit: Pick one of the Five Powers for which
you do not already have Affinity II in. Men must take Earth,
Fire, and Spirit first. Women must take Air, Spirt, and Water
first. If you have all the Affinities II of a weave you get an
additional -1 bonus (like the original Affinity
benefit). Special: You may take this feat up to five
times, each time it is for a different Affinity.
This
is much harder to get a benefit for than the Minor Elemental
Masteries. -1 level is a lot already, but possibly giving -5
with the original -1 seems...
Munchkined.
-------------------- Instant Message me
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Melriken
Member Member # 48882
|
posted September 12, 2002 05:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell: I think a
better way would be to do a second round of
Affinities:
Extra Affinity II: You are even better
with an Affinity. Prerequisite: All Five
Affinities (I). Benefit: Pick one of the Five
Powers for which you do not already have Affinity II in. Men
must take Earth, Fire, and Spirit first. Women must take
Air, Spirt, and Water first. If you have all the Affinities
II of a weave you get an additional -1 bonus (like the
original Affinity benefit). Special: You may take
this feat up to five times, each time it is for a different
Affinity.
This is much harder to get a benefit for
than the Minor Elemental Masteries. -1 level is a lot
already, but possibly giving -5 with the original -1
seems... Munchkined.
I am sorry, were you replying to me? if you were, my
post was an alternate system, not an addition to the current
system... the weaves were skills not spells, and the +1 was to
the skill check, not a -1 to the weave level, also note that
the bonus has a name and doesnt stack with other bonuses of
the same name, for example a second minor elemental mastery
feat.
-------------------- The prior post is in no
way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the
author. Read at your own risk.
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted September 12, 2002 05:11 PM
quote:
As a
matter of a fact, I think that would be extremely easy.
You've got 5 skills: Earth, Fire, Air, Water, Spirit - much
easier than thinking up schools a la D&D. Now, everyone
has a certain score in these 5 powers - whether this is a
0-5 or a 0-20 scale, or anything else, doesn't really
matter.
Way to address my post without reading it. You avoid
all of the points I brought up. Including that, YES,
Mage could work but not as efficently.
A second thing:
I am extremely suspicious that you have not read the RPG or
you would have known there are no schools.
Read the
thing before you slam its faults. My apologies if you have
read it and just didn't grok
it.
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
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Tam al'Moff
Member Member # 79189
|
posted September 13, 2002 12:13 AM
When I
heard that WOT RPG was coming out I had expected the magic
system from Ars Magica or something very similar. It had
everything that channeling needed. There were taught spells
that you could alter in small ways to suit the situation but
with a great deal of time and efort(and danger) you could
invent your own.
I was initially dissapointed with the
magic system that came with WOT but on further inspection I
have been rather impressed with their interpratation. It has
its problems but it is simple to use and with the point pool
system I think it has the flavour of channeling from the
books.
-------------------- If it aint broke don't
fix it.
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Tarlin
Member Member # 96229
|
posted September 14, 2002 10:54 AM
I've been
running a game pretty regularly in Wheel of Time, and the
current system runs just fine and captures the flavor of the
books to everyone's satisfaction. Tinkering with it would just
make things horribly unbalanced, I think. Especially in the
case of a skill-based magic like Star Wars, which is broken
anyway. Once you take a level or two in a force-user level to
pick up the proper feat making your "spells" class skills,
smart money is on the guy who puts the rest of his levels in
Scoundrel, eating up all those 8 skill points per level. This
kinda thing would mess things up.
"My 12th level Jedi
Guardian is a master of the force." "Oh yeah, then how come
my Consular 1/Scoundrel 11 has more force ability than you can
dream of....hehehehhehehehe"
Anyways, it works, and I
agree that certain weaves were specific in the book. (Some
people with the Traveling talent didn't even know they had it
until Rand or Egwene or someone taught them to weave a
Gateway).
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Grayswandir_Blade Member Member
# 92933
|
posted September 14, 2002 11:02 AM
The problem
with the extra affinity II that I see is that to get the most
out of them, you have to take a lot more feats than are really
worth it. For Affinity I, if you don't have it, you go up a
level, and if you have all, you go down a level. The thing is,
you get an advantage for just having one or more affinities in
a multi-affinity weave--the weave level stays the same. For
Affinity II that you're proposing, there's no difference
between having *no* Affinity II and *some* Affinity II (for
some weave that has 2+ affinities). Perhaps that's your point,
making it harder to get really, really strong weaves--but I'd
sure like to see who's crazy enough to take tons of extra
extra feats (all five Affinities, then Affinity II's) in favor
of questing off for an angreal or something.
Oh, and on the topic of spells--what's wrong
with it? If you want free-form so bad, don't play with any
rules, just go write a story or something. The spell system
gives structure to the game that you just can't get through GM
arbitration, and is eye-bogglingly fair in balance.
But
I agree with the Fifth Age Dragonlance thing. If you're going
to go free-form, that's the way to do it...a wonderful system
of spell attributes to be manipulated. Time, Range, Duration,
Area of Effect, and Effect are covered in detail for the most
free-form spellcasting you can get (or, at least, the most
free-form I've seen). The overall system is weird, though, so
I don't like it as much except for adaptation and porting...I
mean, cards? That's why the Amber diceless system didn't work
![[Razz]](Wizards_Com Boards Why a spell-based magic system_fichiers/tongue.gif)
-------------------- "We laugh in the face
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted September 15, 2002 12:48 PM
You are
exactly right Grey, If people don't want such a solid static
system, then don't use d20 as is. d20 is a system for
beginners really, it is easy to learn (took me 4 months and my
first D&D2 game to learn it, while D&D 3ed took me 10
minutes) and there aren't a whole lot of exceptions in
it.
(exceptions like: This always works like this,
except when there is this or this...)
And back to the
Affinity II's, the only reason to take one is if you want to
really be good with a few. But you could still award them
temporarily to a Ta'veren character. But like Spirit II is the
only one I would take because there are so many spirit only
weaves that you sometimes MUST have (like Create Gateway and
Shield). Or many the only prerequist for Affinity II is all
three of your gender's Affinities (but if I had to choose
between Spirit II and Air, I would take Air hands
down).
And how could someone think that if Wizards made
Wheel of Time that it wouldn't use their new system that they
put their other systems to rest for (like Alternity was
scrapped because the Skill driven classes were too
complex).
-------------------- Instant Message me @
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Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
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Jkol the
Butcher Member Member
# 106364
|
posted September 20, 2002 04:15 AM
Perhaps one
could look at other spell systems from dnd 3rd to create a
better system - it seems to me that a point based system
that the Psions and Psychic warrior use would better emphasise
the freedom to choose what weaves are cast - perhaps this then
could be combined with the epic spell "seed" rules There
could be a seed or two for each of the five powers. Each Power
"seed" would have specific abilites (damage etc) and Talents
such as Balefire would allow a channeler would unlock new uses
of the seed (ie. One could not use the spirit seed to make a
gateway until they had the travel talent)
How the five
power "seeds" are combined could then set a learn dc for
knowledge weave - and the power of such weaves could then be
translated X dc costs x weave points etc. Angreal etc..
could then reduce the cost in points. As for exactly what the
points represent - It seems to me that channelers act as a
conduit for the one power - which naturally damages the body,
as one grows in power his or her body naturally develops
buffers against this damage. Overchannelling then would only
occur when A person overwhelmed those buffers 1) They don't
have enough points to cast the weave 2) The cost of the weave
exceeds the number of points that a channeler is allowed to
spend on a given weave (see psion rules for
clarification). As for the issue of channelers not being
able to do everything - the beauty of the "seed" system is
that all weaves are at GM discretion - those that seem to
farfetched or unbalancing, might never pass the
expirimentation stage because the weave "would not snap into
place"
-------------------- Self Proclaimed Member #
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted September 20, 2002 07:10 AM
Uh, Jkol
you just described the current system in use in the RPG almost
exactly.
- The
"seeds" you were talking about are affinities, they don't
stop you from channeling a weave only enhance or detract
from it.
- Talents allows you to unlock new weaves. Although
additional flexability exists if to cast weaves outside of
your talents dependant upon you class.
- as
for a point based system, the current system in use (spell
levels) is already very flexible, but.....Ishameal's point
based system is also very popular.
- your
discription of angreal is what they do.
- There
is a DC set for learning a new weave (any weave), it uses
the Weavesight skill and is dependant upon what Talents and
level you are, but you can still learn weaves far above your
current level (and cast them, see below).
- agian
you hit overchanneling right on the head. Overchannelling
then would only occur when A person overwhelmed those
buffers 1) They don't have enough points to cast the weave
2) The cost of the weave exceeds the number of points that a
channeler is allowed to spend on a given weave . That is
what overchanneling is, to cast a weave at a higher level
than you could normally do so, and when you dont have enough
strength left normally.
- and
finally for channelers not being able to do everything, well
in the novels they can't unless they are taught how to. The
current weaves are for the most part very flexible. Arms of
Air can do the equivalent of many different spells at a
range of abilities. Some of us have come up with a number of
weaves on our own, and even have systems in place to create
new ones, but each weave is different and does something
that others don't.
Sorry to go off
like that, but it's becoming a serious pet peeve of mine, how
everybody keeps on bashing the current system, especially this
thread which starts out as I have partly read the WoT game
now, and I'm completely baffled by the choice for a
spell-based magic system. Does anyone know why the designers
chose this? It seems to me that a free-form magic system is
the only thing which could capture the feeling of magic in the
books. I have been playing this game for some time now and
although it is based of weaves (not spells), it is a great
deal more flexible and by many opinions captures the feeling
of the novels very well. It irks me that this started by
someone who has only partly read the WoT game. I'm not trying
to start any "name calling", just advocating a point . man this went on longer than I expected, sorry
all.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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Jkol the
Butcher Member Member
# 106364
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posted September 20, 2002 08:42 AM
You
misunderstand my meaning when I speak of seeds. I use the term
in the intent of demonstrating a system where flexibility of
design works and is different from the current system.
Seeds are what one could use to develop new weaves.
For example: A base fire seed could be employed to do x
damage, doing more damage would make the weave more difficult
to manage and channel. Combining Powers (earth, etc...)
Produces more pronounced effects (ie. Air and Fire for a
fireball).
This does sound like the system that is
employed, and the end effect is very similar. The advantage of
using seeds is to set the base rules for the effect of say a
straight weave of one power "A weave of fire has x effect,
you must make this knowledge check and this weave slot/points
what ever to use it, combining it with another thread of the
power adds this effect (longer range, more damage etc.) given
that you have this knowledge and this weave slot etc..)"
The end result is a variation that simplifies the
process of taking the one power and creating weaves that have
perhaps a unique effect within the casters ability to do
so.
-------------------- Self Proclaimed Member #
001 of the Kill Paladins and Join the Blackguards Foundation
(KPJBF)
We are the Sorg. You and your sig will be
assimilated. Resistance is futile. (Please put this in your
sig to show that it has been asimilated.)
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted September 20, 2002 10:04 AM
Ok I get
what the seeds you are referring to are, but I don't think
that they correctly capture the feeling of the world. I am
very familiar with the Mage system (I ran that for awhile)
which sound something like what you are trying to capture,and
the System for making Epic spells. I believe that the freeform
system is too loose for the Wheel of Time game and was stated
very clearly by
quote:
The Great
Gray Skwid There are specific weaves to do specific
things...you can't just want to do something and force the
Power to your will, unless that something is very
simple.
We have repeatedly seen that channelers within the
books cannot just cast a weave even though they know its
possible, for example the Aes Sedai knew for sometime that
Rand could Travel, and some even saw him do it, and they still
couldn't come figure it out. Moraine had to go and learn
Balefire and many of the weaves the wondergirls learned from
Moghy, were then passed on to the Salidar Aes Sedai (Folded
Light to name just one). This is where the Talents and Weaves
from the RPG come into play. Once a character sees another
cast a weave and they are able to do so (have the levels and
Talents necessary) they can learn it. Also many of the weaves
are very flexible (look at create fire and arms of
air).
That being said, I am a proponent of allowing
channelers to create their own weaves or recreate weaves
thought lost. I use egwene as an example, she spent weeks
pondering how to make a doorway into Tel'aran'rhiod.
She then asked Rand how he made the gateways, once she asked
Moghy, she had all the evidence she needed and was able to
make a gateway. This process should not be easy and I for one
would love it if you made the "seed" sytem for creating new
weaves, as the epic system is used for creating new spells
(although toned down
some).
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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RocPhoenix
Member Member # 105620
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posted September 20, 2002 10:11 AM
Overall, I
think the system is easy enough that I can understand it (took
me many months to almost get down DnD2e and still am working
on Shadowrun!). I tend to quit playing if it gets too
complicated. Not very dedicated of me, i guess. Anyway, I
figured they would base it on the point or mana system, as
well. If you have the only affinity used in the weave, cast at
a lower cost. The book also talks about having several
affinities (or lack there of ) affecting the strenght of the
weave (Verin in PoD trying to use Compulsion and being fine,
except that Earth is pretty difficult for her). I dunno. I
plan on using the set system, even though it caught me off
guard. I am not sure there is a perfect system out there to
correspond with the books. On another thought, as far as
creating new weaves, my thought has been that, if you have the
feat old blood, you should get bonuses, kinda like Rand, Nyn
and Egw. Otherwise, it would be a wavesight check DC of 25
plus the weave level (as per GM choice). Just a thought.
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