Author
|
Topic: UtDB
Critique |
Ghaerdon Fain
Member Member # 90264
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posted August 16, 2002 07:11 AM
OK, so here
it begins. MAB and the crew did a great job. The editing is
fantstic. But now we should, in a very sensitive way , say what we use and what we don't.
We've
put our two cent in for the PotD (strengths? Weakeness?). Over
the next few weeks we should say what we'll never use and what
we've added. For example, how many use the "Revised"
characters, and not the ones in the book.
My interest
is purely selfish; I want to introduce what the majority of
the board uses: kinda a Standard. Also I'm subject to peer
presure
We should in no way TRASH anyone's hard
work. Why we won't use it is one thing but to trash is just
not on!
-------------------- "My Brother? By the
Light, I've never seen this darkfriend before!" Go to my
"Tiny Wheel of Time"; http://pages.globetrotter.net/pastor/wot.html
From:
Basse Cote Nord, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2002
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Reynar
Andellan Member Member
# 101227
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posted August 16, 2002 12:27 PM
One thing
that I disagree with in the netbook is the use of feats to
represnt Wolfbrother progression. Granted that Wolfbrother may
not be linked with One Power in any way but as we saw with
Perrin, it is a gradual progression to accumulate the
abilities he now posses. In my opinion, Wolfbrother works much
better as a prestige class than a set of Latent
feats.
-------------------- My heart rises with the
sun. To the chime of swords I die at sunset...
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
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posted August 16, 2002 12:30 PM
Critiqing
is excellent. It will help the next crew who comes along after
us. I agree that folks should be sensitive to the people who
did the writing. "this class/feat/weave/ ect is way too
powerfull/doesn't fit/ill concieved...Is GOOD.
This guy
sucks, will likely upset someone who was only trying their
best to make your game better. This is BAD.
Oh yeah, It
is conversly ok to defend the rationale for your design
decisions. We all do stuff a little different, sometimes it is
just different, not wrong. Everyone knows I defend my
decisions
I am not one of the mushy guys/gals who
believe in the touchy feely - "whatever fits your style is ok"
Somethings are wrong.
FIRE IN THE HOLE!
Lets
see what people have to say.
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
From:
Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
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posted August 16, 2002 01:33 PM
I strongly
believe that power wrought items should not be touched for
weaves. The books state that all memory of how to make them
was lost (even the Forsaken don't seem to be able to reproduce
them) so these Lost weaves are like waving candy in front of a
child (awful thing to do! ) But power wrought items are supposed to be special
and rare, and well allowing PC's to make them will ruin a
game. They have no XP costs, no gold costs... just a bad
idea.
I am, however, glad that the UtDB group didn't
touch the Angreal making weaves, (they started as low as level
3! come on.. I would personally make an angreal require a link
of channelers casting at least a level 20 weave together to
make a level 1 angreal, just to show how awesome they are to
make and to demonstrate a reason why they aren't common enough
to be paper weights).
-------------------- Instant
Message me @ JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
California | Registered: Aug 2002 |
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GhostTigone
Member Member # 25539
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posted August 16, 2002 02:12 PM
the netbook
is great, the only problem I have so far is the converted
plant growth weave, maybe it's just me but that is more for
treesingers and something channelers shouldn't be able to
do
-------------------- 'Life is Chaos, Chaos is
Life, Control is an Illusion'
Registered:
Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted August 16, 2002 02:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GhostTigone: the
netbook is great, the only problem I have so far is the
converted plant growth weave, maybe it's just me but that is
more for treesingers and something channelers shouldn't be
able to do
Actually, it does have some basis... in Eye of the
World, Elaida has used the Power to make the royal gardens in
the palace in Caemlyn bloom despite the harsh weather.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted August 16, 2002 02:46 PM
And when I
made it I made sure that the effect that the weave produced
was drastically inferior to what a Tree singer could
accomplish.
By 9th level, a channeler can cast this
weave at a 5th level. This effect will give him a 200% growth
rate (and is maxed out), the same treesinger can accomplish a
250% growth rate and he can keep on
going.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
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Wowbangers the
Infinitely Prolonged Member Member
# 101183
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posted August 16, 2002 03:42 PM
Just like
evything else the new weaves where awesome, perhaps a little
too awesome though. I think I counted about 15 common weaves,
just a few more than the amount of lost weaves (about 13), the
rest where all rare. It may be just me, but since Common
weaves are common, should there not be a few more of them than
there are Rare weaves. The rare weaves are indeed nifty, but I
myself don't like my channeler PC's mucking about trying to
kill Foresaken or Dragons for that matter (not that I would
ever let them . The rest of UtDB was awesome, 'specialy the
Sword Forms!
-------------------- I have gone out to
look for myself. If I should happen to return before I get
back, please tell myself to wait.
From:
The middle of nowhere....South Dakota | Registered:
Aug 2002 | IP: Logged
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Jak Shadow
Member Member # 39941
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posted August 16, 2002 03:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Reynar Andellan: One
thing that I disagree with in the netbook is the use of
feats to represnt Wolfbrother progression. Granted that
Wolfbrother may not be linked with One Power in any way but
as we saw with Perrin, it is a gradual progression to
accumulate the abilities he now posses. In my opinion,
Wolfbrother works much better as a prestige class than a set
of Latent feats.
And this is, as you say, your opinion. Personally I
never liked the idea of doing Wolfbrother as a PrC, it just
didn't seem right to me. I was thinking some kind of template
with abilities kicking in at later levels maybe but then I
remembered the wonderful Latent Feat mechanic and thought that
I would see what could be done with that. In the end all of
the stuff in the Netbook is 100% unofficial and you can pick
and choose what to use, if you don't like something don't
include it! I'm certain there will be many things that I
choose to leave out, but probably more that I leave in, but
I'll need to fully read through UTDB to truly decide
that.
[Edit: Damnable typos!]
[ August
16, 2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Jak Shadow
]
-------------------- "I'm not feeling
very well, it must be the anthrax." ~ Saturday night Delta
Green, GenCon UK
From:
London, UK | Registered: Aug 2001 |
IP: Logged
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Arafel is Full
of Strange Folks Member Member
# 97788
|
posted August 16, 2002 04:53 PM
I for one
really like the prestige class for Ogier; I think it is well
done and provides for some neat role playing.
I've
thought about a "Latent Singer/Singer" set of feats that could
represent the Singing in the Age of Legends that the Jen Aiel
(Tinkers) could do along with the Ogier. Indeed, it might be a
neat thing to give the Tinker class. There might well be more
than "one" song that works for "Singing" rather than the one
the Tinkers are currently looking for.
By the way, has
anyone done up stats for a Nym?
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ghaerdon Fain
Member Member # 90264
|
posted August 16, 2002 05:00 PM
Here's one
that's not content related.
I printed UtDB and went to
look up page 58 and ... um... well... I got no page numbers
Could this be my fault? I think not. HELP.
Oh well thank God for my trusty "Pilot Hi-Tech".
BTW: I
agree with Joseph and Kell Power wrought items are rare: very rare. GM's beware
too many are a trick to get us out of the spirit of the world
and into some new type of "Rand Realms" DnD adventure with
37th level Fire Ogiers. Too powerful for the most part but one
or two may be a great theoretical
prize.
-------------------- "My Brother? By the
Light, I've never seen this darkfriend before!" Go to my
"Tiny Wheel of Time"; http://pages.globetrotter.net/pastor/wot.html
From:
Basse Cote Nord, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2002
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted August 16, 2002 06:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ghaerdon Fain: Joseph
and Kell
Joseph: Ha Ha! He said my name first! Kell: Shut
up! Joseph takes a Q-tip and stabs Kell through his ear:
OW! Kell: Moron...
Joseph & Kell
(Always wanted to do something like this,
Nice to know someone remembered that Joseph and Kell are
supposed to be two different Personas stuck in one
body.)
-------------------- Instant Message me @
JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
California | Registered: Aug 2002 |
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
|
posted August 17, 2002 10:12 AM
I said in
another thread that I'd post this as soon as I got around to
it.
In looking through this list I've noticed a few
general categories of things that bugged me. 1) Things that
were pretty clearly cribbed from D&D and don't fit very
well in WoT. 2) Complex, high-grade mind-affecting effects.
It's just not as easy to fuss with someone's mind using the
One Power as it with D&D magic. 3) Attempts to get
around the 'dead is dead' nature of d20 WoT. 4)
Redudancy. 5) Overpowered weaves/items.
So here's
what I'd've eliminated from the
netbook...
Backgrounds - The variant Illuminator
background (pick one and use it)
Classes - The
revised algai and the revised noble (replacing a core class
isn't worth the effort, and the revised algai is
overpowered) - The Wisdom PrC; the class abilities are
weird, and the standard wilder is pretty much the canonical
channeling Wisdom.
Skills - Sword Forms - the
mechanics just don't seem d20-ish.
Feats - The
Exiled background feat - odd set of bonuses, doesn't really
reflect anyone in the books - All the stat-modifying feats,
whether pure +1 or +2 to something/-2 to something else.
There's a reason why these things are Epic Feats in D&D --
stat bonuses can have a huge effect at low to medium
levels. - Eidetic Memory. This is just silly. - Hate,
Love, and Rational Thought. Please. - Light Sleeper. What
is this, the 'my DM attacks us at night too often and I don't
want to set watches' feat? - Attenuated Affinity, Favored
Weave. These guys look overpowered. - Chain Weave. Weaves
don't do this. Sorry. - Improved Multiweave, Simultaneous
Casting, Splitting the Flows. In the first place, all three of
these do pretty much the same thing. In the second place,
while this actually does exist in the novels, doing it in-game
is some sick way of torturing the GM. - Latent Animal
Talker/Animal Talker - The only precedent is Wolfbrothers, and
even you scratch the alternative presentation of Wolfbrothers,
there's already a presentation of that kind of
ability.
Weaves - Imprint, Painted Memories.
Treading the Earth. Where did these come from? Not from the
novels, that's for certain. - Shrouded Mind, Threading the
Needle, Whisper Through the Black Gate. Blight of Flesh.
Crisis of Breath. Quicken. Vigil of Silence. Forbiddance.
These look like thinly disguised D&D spells. - Liquefy
Earth. Yeah, the Taken did this at the Stair of Tear. But
that's not on the same world as the Stone of Tear. -
Spinning Earthefire. This is an objection to the name, more
than anything else; it's a Lost Talent that we have know idea
what it refers to. - Aura of Flame. Cast Off. Forge Storm.
Hammerhands. Killing Mist. Nice video game effect. Nobody's
done this or anything like it. - Bastion of Force. Doesn't
Master Ward already do this? - Circle of Sounds. Doesn't
Voice of Power already do this? - Ward against Intrusion.
Doesn't Ward Against People already do
this?
Wolfbrother madness - Pick one revised
version.
Counterweaving/cutting weaves - Pick one
alternate presentation; don't keep three or four incompatible
sets of weaves and feats.
The entire New Creatures
section, except for the Worm. It may just be me, but none of
them seem like the stuff encountered in the Blight or any
Seanchan Exotics.
Wonderous Items - Affinity
Talismans. These seem extremely powerful, and seem to be a
meta-game item. - Anchors. Chain of Gazes. Kondor's Iron
Stomach. Kumera's Mystery. Merchan'ts Labor. Portal Lens.
Puzzle Box. The Clasp of Vision. Hourglass of
Destiny/Hourglass of Salvation. The Jade Circle of Bienre
Nemora. The Vieled Window. The Weeping Women. Voraelia's Ring
of Renewal. Maybe it's just me, but these don't seem like
things ter'angreal can do. - Brooch of Speed. Disk of
Waves. Focal lens. Medallion of Khiber. Rod of the Night.
Searing Rod. Sheath of the Keen Blade. Storage Sphere of
Muradar. Teaching Crystals. The Gazing Font of Paren Deisen.
Wand of Storage. These look like thinly disguised D&D
items.
-------------------- Dave Rothgery Picking
nits since 1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Magai
Member Member # 100892
|
posted August 17, 2002 11:26 AM
Well on a
Whole I LOVE THE BOOK, if wizards is not going to support us
then It is up to us to come up with our own support material.
As for those who don't seem to like anything about the
book I would say if you don't like it: Do it yourself seeing
as how you think you could do better. (AND no I did not have
anypart in writing the book but Do support those who take the
time to put such grand work together.)
Well things I
liked: Spell slot system, Sword forms, they just allow people
to become more specialized in thier fields. If a Swordsmen
wants to waste valuable Skill points on Forms let them. They
will just become that more useless when put in non combat
situations. (With my group this happens more often than not,
very boring to be the combat guy when no combat
coming) Dia-Dore Class- DEFINITLY NEEDED, armsmen are great
on own but minute they become blademasters they start to fall
down alot or behind. This class allows them to keep the grace
in combat that is given them in the books. Some of the
items seem a little wierd but I like that The Terangral in the
books do Weird stuff and a lot of them nobody knows what they
do. Great stuff. I won't give everything to my Players but
hey, one or two would be nice. Face it if they had every one
of these Angral, Terangral and Sa'angral the White tower would
come down on them like a 40 ton pile of bricks and sweep them
away. As for Rules that contradict. I too have to say keep
one and forget the others just make sure everyone can agree
which one to keep. No different than your own house rules.
Sorry for going on so long but I feel that you people
who wrote this book deserve more credit than you seem to be
getting. I MEAN THAT. If there was a way to pay you for the
time you have put in that was legal I would. As for payment I
could give you, Email me and if you ever come to Edmonton AB,
Contact me and I will take you too lunch. (maybe pick your
brain a little but thats all) End Rob's Rave, (not a rant
not angry, Rave actually proud to stand
up)
-------------------- I don't have to out Run the
Trollocs, I Just have to out run YOU!!!!
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Aug 2002 | IP: Logged
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CdtData
Member Member # 69022
|
posted August 17, 2002 11:43 AM
Isn't
Liquefy Earth what LTT did in the prologue? I seem to remember
people sticking out of the floor as if it were molten and
they'd been trapped in it. Correct me if I'm
wrong.
Also, I thought it odd the Wisdom PrC didn't
have any special Healing abilities. How about Skill Emphasis
(Heal) or Skill Emphasis (Profession: Herbalist)? I mean, the
skill Heal isn't even a prerequisite for it! Seems silly to
me.
The Ogier PrC seemed off to me, too. The "skin
becomes wood" thing was the weirdest. Ogier can make wood grow
if they can Treesing, but having their skin become wood is
just too odd, IMHO.
All in all, the netbook was really
cool. I wish there were more common weaves, though. So many
were Lost or Rare. The Illuminators stuff was probably my
favorite, along with the Dai'dore.
Registered:
Mar 2002 | IP: Logged
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Arr MiHardies
Member Member # 86473
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posted August 17, 2002 11:57 AM
One thing I
did notice was several of the pages are missing page numbers,
and if you print out the book, in book style (ie. front and
back of a page). well. im not sure where i was going with that
thought, but ALL the page numbers are in the lower right hand
corner of the page, if you print front and back of a page and
then bind it into a folder or something for easy reference,
you cant find the even number pages very easily because they
are ALL in the crease/binding of the book. The even numbered
page numbers should be on the lower LEFT and side of the page
and the odds on the lower RIGHT.
Some of the weaves are
insanely power, and I wouldnt let my characters have them.
Ever.
But personally... I feel there is one thing
missing. No Role-Playing publication is complete without a
character sheet taking up the last few pages. Granted, I couldnt submit mine because I didnt even
think to start on them until after the deadline. Ho
hum
-------------------- You might be a
king... or a little street sweeper... but sooner or
later... you dance with the
reaper... ----------------------------- professional D20
Character Sheets, NPC Sheets, and DM screens http://amhsheets.notcrazy.com/
From:
Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Jun 2002
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
|
posted August 17, 2002 12:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Magai: Well on a
Whole I LOVE THE BOOK, if wizards is not going to support us
then It is up to us to come up with our own support
material. As for those who don't seem to like anything
about the book I would say if you don't like it: Do it
yourself seeing as how you think you could do better. (AND
no I did not have anypart in writing the book but Do support
those who take the time to put such grand work together.)
In the first place, I strongly object to the notion
that if you can't do better yourself, you're not allowed to be
a critic. You don't need to be a professional programmer to
have the right to criticise software, and I don't need to be a
professional game designer to criticise game
mechanics.
In the second place, I have created some fan
materials for d20 WoT which have been very well recieved by
the community here (see the link in my signature), and am the
DM of an online game that I think has a significant
following.
In the third place, the things I didn't like
amount to maybe a third of the netbook. Much of the rest I
really liked, and pretty anything that wasn't on the 'I'd
eliminate this' list above I'd allow in a game where I was
GM.
Because I'm a bit less paranoid about WotC's
lawyers now, and because the netbook was much better than I
expected, it's quite possible that I'll contribute quite a bit
for the next netbook.
-------------------- Dave
Rothgery Picking nits since
1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Eosin_the_Red
Member Member # 30113
|
posted August 17, 2002 02:27 PM
Everybody
has the right to critise! Lets not get rilled over honest -
and constructive critism.
I agree with the vast
majority of what Dave said. 3 things on his list should have
been pulled from the book - like I said there was a last
minute snafu. Some stuff made it in that should not have. Two
items he listed I did not recall, had I read them they would
be 86'd. But this was a collabrative effort - I could not say
"my way or the highway" nor would I want to.
I will
mention - the Noble is just the Revised Star Wars noble
reworded. The old class stunk, no one wants to have powers
that are usable once then gone. To be honest if Xyth had not
done it I would have.
Some of the stuff mentioned is
style - I would never use the sword forms in my games, but
many peole seem to like them. It is kinda like mint ice cream,
for the love of god I cannot understand why people would put
it in their mouths, but they do ![[Big Grin]](Wizards_Com Boards UtDB Critique (1)_fichiers/biggrin.gif)
-------------------- Call of the
Horn Visit the Tower Library for the latest version of the
WOT RPG FAQ.
From:
Norman, OK, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Philosopher
Jack Member Member
# 95890
|
posted August 17, 2002 03:07 PM
Mr.
Rothgery,
I understand it is your right to be critical,
but I don't understand your reasons for being so critical.
Like I said before, if you don't like the material, simply do
not use it. If you would like to assist in making the material
better, then by all means contribute, but to simply castigate
those who have written and edited the material (myself
included) because they do not meet the standards of your elite
game is simply wrong and more damaging to the WOT game
community than you know. The community is a collection of
people, all with varying levels of interest and ideas and we
tried to construct the netbook in such a way as to make it
useful to this diverse group. Not everyone will like
everything, but hopefully everyone can get a little something
out of it.
I am especially irked at your dismissal of
certain weaves because they are too similar to those found in
D&D. I would like to point out certain weaves in the book
that I know you are not using in your online game because
they, too, are similar to those found in
D&D:
Balefire - a cheap knockoff of
disintegrate. Harness the wind - Control wind, Page
189 Lightning - Call Lightning, Page 182 Raise Fog - Fog
Cloud, Page 206 Compulsion - Dominate Person Earthquake
- Earthquake, man, they didn't even change the name. Arms
of Air - Telekinesis anyone? Blade of Fire/Fiery Sword -
Flame Blade. Duh. Create Fire - Produce Flame Fireball -
WOW, did they just cut and paste here? Fly - Ummm,
Fly? Harden Air - Hold Person Immolate - Fireball for
one? Light - Too easy Touch of Death - Finger of
Death Disguise - Change self Distant eye - Arcane
Eye Folded Light - Invisibility Create Gateway/Skimming
- Teleport, Dimension Door, etc... Firetrap -
Firetrap Seal - Arcane Lock
Okay, this is getting
boring, but I hope you see my point. The players in your
online game must not like playing channelers, since they have
almost no weaves to use. We wouldn't want to call you a
hypocrite now, so I know you have disallowed the weaves I
mentioned above. If you want to use only those weaves seen in
the books, Dave, you need to contact Robert Jordan himself and
have him turn his notes over to us, otherwise, you may see
more weaves that are similar to those found in
D&D
David Benson
From:
Bellingham, WA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Philosopher
Jack Member Member
# 95890
|
posted August 17, 2002 03:09 PM
Sorry for
getting riled up, Eosin.
From:
Bellingham, WA | Registered: Jul 2002
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aoMalandra
Member Member # 70086
|
posted August 17, 2002 04:15 PM
Ok droth, I
have seen some of your contributions and many of them are
good. However you are wrong in many instances up above. How
can you say Forbiddance is not in the books, Morraine used it
both in Shadar Logoth and in Caemlyn. In fact Forbiddance is
much better and truer to the books than the Ward Shadowspawn
Weave.
New Weaves and abilities are intoduced in every
new book. Just because we haven't seen a weave or ability
doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The real question is does it
maintain the rules and physics of the world. Determining that
question was the job of the people who put the book together
and I think they did a great job. There are some things that i
submitted that didn't make the cut either because someone had
a better write up or it didn't meet the WoT standards and I
applaud the team for this.
Lets take the Chain Weave
feat as an example. I don't know how you can say this doesn't
exist. The One Power is highly flexible and can be manipulated
to do a lot of unusual things. With practice it is quite
reasonable to assume that a Green Ajah Blight patroler might
be able to figure out how to cast her fireballs so that peices
of them would break off and strike other nearby targets. This
in no way contradicts the world magic system. As one of many
feats it will be a rare ability because not a whole lot of
channelers feel the need to figure out how to make their
fireballs strike other targets. One thing that I did overlook
is that a chain Weave can only be used on weaves that have a
duration of instantaneous.
I love other feats like
Splitting the Flows which are clearly in the books. A real
arguement can be made that many of the feats ands weaves have
brought channelers way out of balance with the rest of the
classes but this is true to the books. Game balance is
something that every GM has to decide how to handle for
themselves, for me I like using world situations rather than
game mechanics to balance things out. The 3 oaths are a good
start. People who use to much Mojo to often attract the
attention of more powerful beings such as Myrdrall, Golum,
Forsaken. If your channelers are being careless with their
power teach them a lesson without killing them.
I like
that the Editors provided several choices when there were
clearly 2 good systems, let the gm's decide for themselves
what they like.
The book wasn't perfect but it is darn
good. I have some system differences for some things like I
would use a standard DC for the Cut Weave rather than an
apposed roll but this is more of a style issue.
I think
droth that you would have been better served to include some
positive comments along with your long list of negatives. I'm
sure what will really irk some people is that you started off
by stating that the things in your list you wouldn't even have
included in the netbook if you had been in charge. Thank god
MAB was in charge and was good enough to let the players and
gm's decide what they wanted to use and not
use.
Malandra Robert Poulin
Registered:
Mar 2002 | IP: Logged
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drothgery
Member Member # 4490
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posted August 17, 2002 04:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Philosopher Jack: I
understand it is your right to be critical, but I don't
understand your reasons for being so critical. Like I said
before, if you don't like the material, simply do not use
it.
Five or so posts on a web discussion board saying that
some things in a netbook were, in my opinion, out of line is
being overly critical? Yikes.
quote:
Originally posted by Philosopher Jack: I
am especially irked at your dismissal of certain weaves
because they are too similar to those found in
D&D.
I'd have very little objection to a weave that seemed
to be a knockoff of Meteor Swarm if the level were set high
enough; big mass-damage fire weaves are something that's
clearly part of the way the Power works. I'd strongly object
to a weave that seemed to be a knockoff of Summon Monster I;
there's no place for summoning magic in Wheel of
Time.
quote:
Originally posted by Philosopher
Jack:
I would like to point out certain
weaves in the book that I know you are not using in your
online game because they, too, are similar to those found in
D&D:
Balefire - a cheap knockoff of
disintegrate. ... Seal - Arcane Lock
Okay, this
is getting boring, but I hope you see my
point.
Actually, I don't. Every weave on your list except Fly
actually has shown up in the novels, or at least something
close to it has. Variants on Mind Blank, Haste, and the like
have not.
quote:
Originally posted by Philosopher Jack: The
players in your online game must not like playing
channelers, since they have almost no weaves to
use.
Actually, I hope that I've impressed upon my players
that obvious channeling against anything other than
Shadowspawn is almost always a bad
idea.
-------------------- Dave Rothgery Picking
nits since 1976 drothgery@alum.wpi.edu http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm
From:
San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Xythlord
Member Member # 70903
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posted August 17, 2002 04:44 PM
I just
wanted to say that not all of the material that didn't make it
into the book was cut do to a dislike by the editors or that
it wasn't in line with the feel of the novels.
This
book was well over 200 pages (well over!), and some material
didn't make it due to a size restraint. I submitted a bunch of
stuff right at the deadline, a couple of those items made it
in because they were really good....the rest, well I'm hoping
for a sequel.
In many cases, we would make some minor
changes to a submission to fit it in better. We were not
trying to create a book with just our view on the RPG, but
something that was taken from the entire community and I'd
like to think that we did. But the great part is if you didn't
like part of it, well, don't use it, or change it to what you
want it to be.
quote:
BY CdtData Also, I thought it odd the
Wisdom PrC didn't have any special Healing abilities. How
about Skill Emphasis (Heal) or Skill Emphasis (Profession:
Herbalist)? I mean, the skill Heal isn't even a prerequisite
for it! Seems silly to me.
And CD, I was looking at the Wisdom
Prc in retrospect after your comment and I realized that not
only didn't I have the Heal skill as a Preq., but I didn't
even have Heal as a class skill. I think that I would change that by adding Heal as a
class skill, also adding Wilderness lore (have to be able to
find the Herbs). Changing the Preq. Intimidate 5 ranks to Heal
6 ranks. My original concept was a short Prc for wilders or
wise women, who were able are the local healers and some can
channel (not very strong). Something like what the Kin are
supposed to be, but also a normal
wisdom.
-------------------- Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
From:
Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002 |
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Philosopher
Jack Member Member
# 95890
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posted August 17, 2002 06:10 PM
quote:
Actually,
I don't. Every weave on your list except Fly actually has
shown up in the novels, or at least something close to it
has. Variants on Mind Blank, Haste, and the like have
not.
Again I ask you, Dave, why is it necessary to discard
anything that has not been seen in the books? Do you feel that
the weaves seen in the books are representative of all the
weaves that could possibly exist? Heck, in the Age of Legends
the One Power could probably be used to do just about
anything! If you have a problem with a weave because you
cannot place exactly which page it was seen on in the novels,
ignore it or make it a lost weave.
I understand your
point about wanting to maintain that unique feel that Robert
Jordan has created with the One Power. I, personally, dislike
any weave of a necromantic sort and those that heal real
damage as they are, in my opinion, very much contrary to the
"rules" of the One Power that Jordan has created. Weaves like
Quicken (which I wrote) were not created to mirror those
spells in D&D. I wrote Quicken because one of my players
asked for a weave he could use to aid his warder in combat. He
reasoned that he could use his Talent in Healing to do this
and I saw no reason otherwise. Using the excuse that it hasn't
been seen in the books or is too closely like a spell in
D&D seemed ridiculous. If I understand your argument, it
is okay to model a D&D spell (even word for word) if that
weave is seen or mentioned in the novels, but a fan who
creates a weave must ensure that it is nothing like a D&D
spell. Damn, Dave, with those rules I wonder why we even
bothered with the netbook.
From:
Bellingham, WA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Dortamur
Member Member # 63897
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posted August 17, 2002 08:27 PM
I really
like the NetBook (even if only 1 of my wondrous items made it
in ), but one thing I think I would've preferred, is if
there were two netbooks.
That is, of course, one for players, and one
for GMs. I'm a bit loathe to point my players at this book, as
I'll probably work in the adventures, and some of the wondrous
items. Plus, the one item of mine that did make it in
is currently a major quest item and they have no clue what it
does.
So, have a Players version, which has all
the classes, feats & weaves in it. Even if the GM doesn't
allow all that's in there, it'd be good for a player to browse
it for ideas, and if they want to use some of it, they can
negotiate with their GM.
Then have the GMs version,
which has all the Wondrous Items, Adventures, Extra Creatures,
Templates for bad guys, etc... And heck, it'd be good to see
some NPCs in a GM guide too.
Just because the WoT RPG
book has everything crammed in one volume, doesn't mean
community addons can't have separate PHB and DMG equivalents.
And then, you'd have more room to cram all those extra weaves
and items in that didn't make the cut due to size limits!
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Feb 2002 | IP: Logged
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