Author
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Topic: When can an
Aes Sedai channel as a weapon |
Snow Crash
Member Member # 85099
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posted June 11, 2003 05:18 AM
When can an
Aes Sedai channel as a weapon and exactly what constitutes a
weapon.
This is the discussion my GM and I had the
other night. While ultimately she can enforce whatever rule
she wishes in her campaign and I will abide by it I just
wanted other opinions.
If I know someone is a
darkfriend and I know that if they see me they will try to
kill me and have done so before, can I pre-empt them and
channel to attack them as soon as I reveal myself, or even
revealing myself in the process of the attack, or do I have to
wait until they do something to me?
My GM says that if
I cast harden air on someone and then someone else in my party
cuts their throat (no it was not preplanned but it has
happened before) Is this classed as using the one power as a
weapon?
If my warder is in combat with someone of
lesser skill then he, can I channel to defend him? My GM says
he can handle himself and I know this therefore his life is
not in danger so no I cannot channel as a weapon to defend
him. I say that the intent is to kill my warder, whether
the antagonist is capable of pulling it off or not is no
concern of mine. Maybe he'll get a crit, maybe the dagger is
poisoned, who knows, I say the intent is enogh for me to
defend him.
What is everybody elses views, and be
honest ![[Confused]](Wizards_Com Boards When can an Aes Sedai channel as a weapon_fichiers/confused.gif)
[ June 11, 2003, 05:21 AM: Message
edited by: Snow Crash ]
From:
Australia | Registered: May 2002 |
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted June 11, 2003 06:58 AM
The Third
Oath: Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against
Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme of defense
her own life, that of her Warder, or that of another
Sister. (Note: At some points in the books the Oath does
not include the Darkfriends exclusions. It may depend on your
particular campaign whether or not that exclusion is in place.
Let's not debate whether or not it should be).
Obviously, using the Power as a weapon against
Shadowspawn (and maybe Darkfriends) is prefectly acceptable
and even expected.
The real question is, obviously, the
second clause. What consititues last, extreme
defense.
IMO, the Oaths are subjective. For instance,
an Aes Sedai can make the statement "Perin Aybara is a
Darkfriend" if she honestly believes that statement to be true
regardless of whether or not it is actually
true.
Similarly, if an Aes Sedai honestly believes that
her life, the life of her Warder or the life of another Sister
is in extreme danger, then she can use the Power as a weapon
against the percieved threat. A lot depends on circumstance
and the personality of the Aes Sedai in question.
For
your examples...
1) A darkfriend who will kill the
Sister if he sees her and has tried to do so before. This
could go either way depending on circumstance. In a dark alley
or a raging battle, I think the Sister would be within her
rights to precieve him as an immediate threat and act
accordingly. OTOH, in an tavern, a nobles house, or some other
circumstance where the threat could be avoided or dealt with
without violence (by having him arrested for instance), then
he isn't an immediate threat and she can't.
2) Harden
Air... IMO harden air isn't a weapon. It is the sovereign
escape from the Third Oath, disabling a foe without harming
him. If the foe is subsequently harmed by others, that's his
problem. Of course, there catch is, the Sister must honestly
believe she is acting to disable the foe without harming him.
If she knows someone is going to cut his throat a
moment later, it gets tricky.
3) Defending a warder
against an obviously inferior foe. Here I would have to say
no. This is the "last, extreme" part of the oath. Essentially,
if the person is reasonably capable of defending themself by
means other than the One Power, than the Sister must rely on
those other means. Maybe the knife is poisoned, maybe the foe
gets a lucky hit... IMO maybe is not enough to meet the "last
extreme defense" criteria in this case.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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Snow Crash
Member Member # 85099
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posted June 11, 2003 08:00 AM
In the last
case, when exactly does the point occur when he is nearing
death, How do you put an exact point to it. When am I allowed
to defeend myself using force. I guess it's a situational
judgment. I guess the other reason I am a little ****** at not
being able to defend myself or my warder is that when I do try
things like harden air for eg, the shoddy save DC in WoTd20
means they are likely to just shrug it off and meanwhile I am
wasting weaveslots and taking damage until I get lucky and he
misses his save.
[ June 11, 2003, 08:10 AM:
Message edited by: Snow Crash ]
From:
Australia | Registered: May 2002 |
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted June 11, 2003 08:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Snow Crash: In the
last case, when exactly does the point occur when he is
nearing death, How do you put an exact point to
it.
You don't. Like I said, it's subjective. When you, IC,
honestly feel that unless you act to defend him your Warder
will die, that is the point at which you can act. How you
define that point depends entirely on the circumstances of the
fight and on your own judgement. Two Aes Sedai, in the same
situtation, would almost certainly make different decisions
about when they could act. The key is to put yourself into
your character and react like the character would.
quote:
Originally posted by Snow Crash: For that
point when does my life become in danger. If someone atcks
me can I defend with the rend weave or do I have to wait til
I am on a handful of hitpoints, throwing the odd harden air
at him and watching him make his saves more often than
not.
Your life is in danger when you, IC, believe it to be.
Put yourself in your characters shoes...
Imagine
yourself standing in a dark alley. A dirty, wild eyed man at
you out of the shadows, sword raised to strike. How do you
react?
One Sister might trap him with Harden Air.
Another might hurl him against the far wall with Arms of Air.
A third might blast him with a Fireball. IMO, all are
potentially valid responses, depending the personality of the
Sister in question.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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Chel'adar
Tamero Member Member
# 124003
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posted June 11, 2003 02:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LuciusT:
2)
Harden Air... IMO harden air isn't a weapon. It is the
sovereign escape from the Third Oath, disabling a foe
without harming him. If the foe is subsequently harmed by
others, that's his problem. Of course, there catch is, the
Sister must honestly believe she is acting to disable the
foe without harming him. If she knows someone is
going to cut his throat a moment later, it gets tricky.
M8, u are very mistaken here.....harden air is like THE
most functional and powerfull weave available, because of its
many ways in which it can be used.
Example: Warder and
darkfriend fighting....lotsa movement.....Place a harden air
in the shape of a sharp pointed stick directly behind
darkfriend.
Example: When facing a darkfriend, envelop
it with a spiral of harden air, and make it the thickness of
say a molecule. Upon touch, the harden air will slice into
flesh depending on the force pushed against it......if the
darkfriend wants to run, he will be chopped into
smithereens
Point being, there's all kinda weapons
which ultimately fall down into two groups: Offensive weapons
and Defensive weapons. The fact that harden air is used in a
sort of pre-emptive strike appraoch, doesn't exclude it from
being a weapon.
-------------------- -"Why is Tar
Valon burning???" -"Well...ehm....You don't want to
know."
From:
Netherlands | Registered: Jan 2003 |
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LuciusT
Member Member # 4474
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posted June 12, 2003 07:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chel'adar
Tamero: Example: Warder and darkfriend
fighting....lotsa movement.....Place a harden air in the
shape of a sharp pointed stick directly behind
darkfriend.
Example: When facing a darkfriend,
envelop it with a spiral of harden air, and make it the
thickness of say a molecule. Upon touch, the harden air will
slice into flesh depending on the force pushed against
it......if the darkfriend wants to run, he will be chopped
into smithereens
IMO, these are examples of Tool of Air not Harden Air.
Obviously there is some overlap between those weaves.
From:
Lafayette IN | Registered: Mar 2001
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Chel'adar
Tamero Member Member
# 124003
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posted June 12, 2003 09:08 AM
true, I
think you can use both weaves in the same fashion concerning
the two examples......but the point is still the same, it can
definately be used as a weapon ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards When can an Aes Sedai channel as a weapon_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- -"Why is Tar Valon
burning???" -"Well...ehm....You don't want to
know."
From:
Netherlands | Registered: Jan 2003 |
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MT
Member Member # 88155
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posted June 12, 2003 10:48 AM
I think his
point was using Harden Air to _hold_ someone is not a weapon.
It's sort of the standard practice in fact.
Now if you
bind someone and one of your party goes to kill the guy, you
should bind him as well. If, as an Aes Sedai, you bind a
person knowing that someone is going to kill them once you do,
and you don't make an effort to prevent them from doing that,
then you can't do it.
Registered:
Jun 2002 | IP: Logged
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Paladin of the
Lawful Naughty Member Member
# 129294
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posted June 12, 2003 06:51 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snow Crash: When can
an Aes Sedai channel as a weapon and exactly what constitutes
a weapon.
I have read the thoughts and persprctives
of the others posted above. I am reminded of an old issue of
the X-Force comic where Professor X and the character
Cannonball are arguaging over how the young team of mutants
has been handeling themselves. Professor X feels that the team
has been to aggresive in their actions and inturn provoking
the enemy to much. Cannonball feels that they have not done
enought to protect humanity from the enemy. At a heated point
in the argument Cannonball slaps Professor X across the face
with an open right hand and then begins to throw a punch with
a closed fist but stops inches from the Professors face and
opens his left hand reveiling a small frightened field mouse.
Cannonball won his argument with the Professor by proving that
an open hand can harm while a closed fist can shelter. It all
boilded down to perspective, timming, and place. Sometimes
there is no cut an dry answer. You simply have to react as
best you can and hope that you actions were the right
ones.
-------------------- Spinner of the Great
Wheel, Apprentice Lord of the Sith, Palladian of the Lawful
Naughty
Recipe for the Palladian of the Lawful
Naughty “Take 1 level of Rogue, add 2 or 3 levels of
Fighter then add multiple levels of Palladian. When your GM
tells you that you are breaking your Palladian’s alignment
remind him that your character came from a dysfunctional
background so burning the whole village to the ground to rid
the world of evil is ok from his point of view.”
Registered:
Feb 2003 | IP: Logged
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waqqif
Member Member # 39870
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posted June 15, 2003 05:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
Crash:
quote:
If I
know someone is a darkfriend and I know
is IMPOV Reason enough to use reasonasble force, I
would in the POV of Randsworld consider a darkfriend
automatically dangerous. Even if the DF isn`t there to run
amok, he may work for the Shadow in subtler and more dangerous
ways. If he tries to use whatever kind of resistence, better
to kill him than let him escape. Shadowspawn is target, No
Question asked, No Quarrels, No Quarter.
quote:
If my
warder is in combat with someone of lesser skill then he,
can I channel to defend him?
Yes IMPOV, but not with injuring or harming force, you
could go safe road. But only if your Warder fights to defend
the white tower, you or himself, if he provoked the fight, or
begun the fight without an good reason, (and even then itwould
be doubtful, operating on the edge)than not
quote:
My GM
says that if I cast harden air on someone and then someone
else in my party cuts their throat (no it was not preplanned
but it has happened before) Is this classed as using the one
power as a weapon?
When it`s preplanned or getting Standard then
yes.
[ June 15, 2003, 05:59 AM: Message edited
by: waqqif ]
-------------------- Suddenly
the slim form went limp. The man eased her to the earth, and
touched her brow lightly. "Dead!" he muttered. Slowly he
rose, mechanically wiping his hands upon his cloak. A dark
scowl had settled on his somber brow. Yet he made no wild,
reckless vow, swore no oath by saints or devils. "Men shall
die for this," he said coldly.
From:
germany | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP:
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