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Author Topic: Women Warders
Sharn_Penndroen
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posted March 25, 2003 01:38 PM      Profile for Sharn_Penndroen   Email Sharn_Penndroen    Edit/Delete Post
Okay I have a question. Our party had an NPC accompanying them and this was her story. She is from Tar Valon and was kind of a "tomboy." She prefered the sword to dolls and tea parties. Her dream was to train as a warder, but that wasn't allowed. So she disguised herself as a man and entered into the town guard. She became a very proficient swordsman (..er swordswoman) and eventually got in with an elite guard group.

This is were things come into our party. She was sent with the pary on a mission for the White Tower (the tower still believes her to be a man) while on this mission she was injured in battle and rendered unconcious. When the party's Aes Sedai, healed her she also checked the wound (heal check). This required the Aes Sedai to remove her shirt and what do you know; now they know that she is a woman. [Blush]

Well the party not only decided to keep her secret, but the party's Aes sedai is a Green with two of the party members already bonded to her. Knowing that the woman always wanted to be a warder she up and bonded the woman to her. Here in lies the problem.

Does this woman have to keep up the disguise? Would the White Tower accept her as a warder? Would they force the Aes sedai to terminate the bond? Would there be some disiplinary action if they found out?

Lots of questions. Any answers?

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A man who will not die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying

The Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral Ceremony

From: Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Generality
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posted March 25, 2003 02:08 PM      Profile for Generality   Email Generality    Edit/Delete Post
I don't think it's POSSIBLE to terminate the bond without the death of one of the linked. If it were possible, they probably would have unbonded Birgitte. I think, as with Birgitte, other Aes Sedai would simply have to accept a female Warder.
I don't think this would harm the Green's standing; female Warders are forbidden merely because it is believed that a bond between two women would be too strong and that they might wind up imitating one another (a possibility that should probably have rules).

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If the Dark One's name is forbidden, how does anyone know what it is?

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Freya
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posted March 25, 2003 02:27 PM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Generality:
I don't think it's POSSIBLE to terminate the bond without the death of one of the linked. If it were possible, they probably would have unbonded Birgitte. I think, as with Birgitte, other Aes Sedai would simply have to accept a female Warder.


If they really, really objected, they could make the Aes Sedai pass the bond to another. And, personally, I don't think they would have 'unbonded' Brigitte. They disapproved, no more. Elayne had high enough standing in the Power to elicit no more than disapproval.

quote:

I don't think this would harm the Green's standing; female Warders are forbidden merely because it is believed that a bond between two women would be too strong and that they might wind up imitating one another (a possibility that should probably have rules).

At the worst, the Green would gain a little reputation (infamy) around Aes Sedai for bonding a woman.

And, female warders are not "forbidden" in any way, just "against tradition," there is a difference.

Nowhere do I recall there being any mention on what effects a female-female bond would have, until we saw the effects with Elayne and Brigitte. I think you are skewing the timeline.

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felicia
AKA Freya Culadin

From: dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
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posted March 25, 2003 02:34 PM      Profile for Paladin of the Lawful Naughty      Edit/Delete Post
Remember this is your game. Once you buy it and you and your game group set any house rules it's yous to do with as you please. Male, female, ogeir, shock horror a shadowspawn! Bond who you want within the bound of the rules set by the game master. If the green bonds the whole party, thats between them and the judge. If a blue who already has a warder bonds a PC or NPC to keep them from dying or to keep them in line, the punishment or result fall to the judge. Have fun with it. Make the party sweet it out for a while. Use it as a plot hook to drive the game.
[Evil Smirk]
In the game that I am curently running I have as many as six different plots going at once. Each of my players have pulled me to the side to say "I want my character to be doing such and such... but I don't want the rest of the party to know!"
[Angel]
Remember the house judge has final say, but take a few minuites and talk out of character to your game group and air your ideas. If nothing else the judge can use your own ideas against you!
[Devilish]

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Spinner of the Great Wheel, Apprentice Lord of the Sith, Palladian of the Lawful Naughty

Recipe for the Palladian of the Lawful Naughty
“Take 1 level of Rogue, add 2 or 3 levels of Fighter then add multiple levels of Palladian. When your GM tells you that you are breaking your Palladian’s alignment remind him that your character came from a dysfunctional background so burning the whole village to the ground to rid the world of evil is ok from his point of view.”

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skyman
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posted March 25, 2003 03:13 PM      Profile for skyman      Edit/Delete Post
I agree. THis situation could lead to good roleplaying possibilities.

Of course, there would certainly be dissaproval among the Aes Sedai, and this could lead to a conflict. Hmm, this looks like an adventure hook...

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"Death comes sooner or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price."
-Lan Mandragoran

From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
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posted March 25, 2003 03:36 PM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
Leave it up to the players to keep it a secret or not the Aes Sedi would look down upon it but its not like she bonded her against her will.

She has already been trained by warders so there is no big deal for her taking the warder class (though getting her a warder cloak could be a problem if she stops her disquise)

as far as upsetting the timeline, BAH! the books only cover 1,757 people. The world population is a little higher (hell most towns are) and even the Tower does not know everything (they don't even know what they think they know)

Just encourage them to keep it a secret (its not like male wilders don't have bigger secrets to hide) Secrets are part and parcel to the WoT.

Now as to Men bonding Men and Women bonding Women.
If i bust my butt, I might be able to come up with some rules before the netbook closes (there is still the Asha'man bond.)

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I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

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Xythlord
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posted March 25, 2003 03:53 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Ok, so what does everybody think that the bond should do for same sex bonding?

Also just how does the bond that the Asha'man cast differ from that of the Aes Sedai?

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Generality
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posted March 25, 2003 09:22 PM      Profile for Generality   Email Generality    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Freya:
If they really, really objected, they could make the Aes Sedai pass the bond to another.

Passing a bond only works on death, which would result in the woman being a warder even longer.

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If the Dark One's name is forbidden, how does anyone know what it is?

From: Here | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
skyman
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posted March 25, 2003 09:28 PM      Profile for skyman      Edit/Delete Post
About the Asha'man bond, I'm not sure but I think the bond was more mutual, i.e. the channeler didn't so much control the recipient of the bond as share thoughts with her.

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"Death comes sooner or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price."
-Lan Mandragoran

From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
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posted March 26, 2003 12:37 AM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
As to same sex bonding
lets see documentation
Uncontrolled Empathy that feend on itself, drunkeness, Menstration, and Sexual pleasure,

Anything that seems affected by bio rythyms, hormones, the subconcious?

Diffrencess between the bond seem to flow from the intent. The Warder Bond was origionally designed to be a tool and a benifit for a Trusted Armsmen to help Defend those constrained by the Three Oaths. The Ashaman bond was origionally designed for use between man and wife

What? sky man go back and read

One the Ashaman bond made the Aes Sedi do what an Ashaman said without even thinking about it (making tea, hiding themselves, being at a certin place at a certin time). Also the bond apparently enhances sex. You also know that a specific part of the person's body can is hurt at a range of over a thousand miles (I am researching it)

Plus there seems to be no ability to resist this at all so I would guess it is perhaps Fortititude for Aes Sedi instead of Will? This seems to be almost compultion in some ways. Another the Ashaman learn this by a kiss so there is the self restricting limitation of how you learn a bond.

As far as mind reading goes Gabrella says it is empathy not mind reading by her description, this also fits with jur gradys comments.

Generaality is also wrong an Aes Sedi can terminate the bond at anytime (rand makes this perfectly clear when he tells alanna to do so).

Generality is also wrong again Brigitte documents a case of an Accepted being forced to tranfer her warder's bond to another and then the tower chose a new warder for her.

I will continue to reseach the Ashaman's bond

So far the only refrences I have found appear in the following

ACoS: Chapter 27 To Be Alone Jur Grady explains the bond, along who worked it out
TPoD: Chapter 26 The Extra Bit Logain explains the kissing is part of the bonding (learned restriction)
WH: Prologue Snow Tovaine Gazal (talks about how the bond feels and affects her)
CoT Prologue glimmers in the pattern Gabrelle POV
(talks about how the bond feels and affects her)

The Fustrating thing is no Logain PoV or a PoV from an Aes Sedi who has had a warder.

I am half tempted to leave this lie but It will be two years untill another book so.......
Grady tells Perrin that he has a wife named Sora. Some of the Asha'man have begun bonding their wives. An Asha'man named Canler figured out how and taught the others. Taim was angry about them figuring out things on their own.

--------------------
I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

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Luna_Luciferi
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posted March 26, 2003 12:58 AM      Profile for Luna_Luciferi   Email Luna_Luciferi    Edit/Delete Post
You can always "change your mind" with some nasty intrigues...

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Luna Luciferi - Salve Rex Infernii

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Xythlord
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posted March 26, 2003 05:55 AM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
I have always been of the opinion that the bond used by the Asha'man is of the same type as that used by the Aes Sedai, just that the Asha'man use the Compulsion feature much more heavily than any Aes Sedai would.

Like Steve said, originally the Asha'man who figured out the bond weave used it on their wives, and even the most cynical person would assume they did this just to be able to "control" them.....very much like the Aes Sedai bond. While the Asha'man use the bond to Compell their Aes Sedai, we do have an example of an Aes Sedai successfully compelling her warder, that of Lan to travel to his new Aes Sedai (I forget the name of her, I think that it starts with a M). The actions taken (to do as the channeler commands) by those compelled seem very similiar.

I am open to any arguments, though that would change my mind.

As for the same sex bonding, most of these seem likely that they could be covered by roleplaying with an addendum to the bond weave about not being able to block the bond (tying it in a knot...at least not for long, 1/2 duration maybe?) About the drunkeness, if that affects them both, what about extreme pain? As for Menstruation, it is quite common that women that spend a lot of time together tend to develop cycles at the same time.....this would only be worse with a bond!

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

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The Great Gray Skwid
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posted March 26, 2003 06:34 AM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Generality:
I don't think it's POSSIBLE to terminate the bond without the death of one of the linked. If it were possible, they probably would have unbonded Birgitte.
and
Passing a bond only works on death, which would result in the woman being a warder even longer.

Where, exactly, are you getting this?

Although we have never seen a bond released in the books, we do have dialogue implying that it can be done. The same situation applies with regards to passing a bond to someone else while both parties still live. We have not seen it done, but we have dialogue which directly implies its feasibility.

I can provide citations to this effect. Can you?

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Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
http://www.thehumblest.net/
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The True Adolf Nixon
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posted March 26, 2003 07:54 AM      Profile for The True Adolf Nixon      Edit/Delete Post
Core Rulebook pg. 167 second column third paragraph.

quote:
The channeler can terminate the bond. Casting this weave in a special modified manner ends the bond. The Warder does not need to be touched (or even be present) for the termination weave to take effect.


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"What is your name, O great Enchanter?"
"There are some who call me... Tim?"

From: Right in the back of your head. | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
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posted March 26, 2003 03:09 PM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
Two Questions

One should there be a new weave or not or even a new set of rules.

Two can anyone quote diffrences between the Bond Warder and the Ashaman's Bond.

here is what I have found

Ashaman must kiss to form a bond (I believe this to be a learned limitation similar to aes sedi casting of fireball requires hurling vs. wise ones do not)

the Aes Sedai make their Warders give oaths, obedience to the Aes Sedai isn't a function of the bond itself? (V: 413) yet later it is shown that it can be used to do so.

Alanna tried to compel Rand moments after bonding him, but said it was like trying to uproot an oak with her bare hands. (VI: 620) men have had no such problem with women

[Male channeler vs. female channeler (this might be part of the dicotomy of the one power a man and a women linked the man must take the lead) I have not heard the Aes Sedi try to compel thier bonded ashaman]

On the Female warder issue.
there are tales of female Warders, but they are so old that Birgitte barely remembers them. (V: 409)

--------------------
I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
skyman
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posted March 26, 2003 03:18 PM      Profile for skyman      Edit/Delete Post
I was under the impression that the Asha'man bond used on the Aes Sedai (with Compulsion) was very differnt from the bond used on their wives (which is what I was talking about). However, it's been a looong time since I read the books which talked about it, so I'm probably wrong. [Blush]

--------------------
"Death comes sooner or later to everyone unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price."
-Lan Mandragoran

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twistedbutsane
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posted March 26, 2003 05:10 PM      Profile for twistedbutsane      Edit/Delete Post
I do not think that gender makes a difference in regards to Aes Sedai being able to compel their warder/s. I think Alannahs attempts at compulsion over Rand failed either because he is taveren or because of some other Dragon Reborn related reason. That Lan was compelled to go to the Aes Sedai Moiraine had the bond passed to shows it is possible to compel males, I also think the Ashaman that were bonded are likely under some sort of compulsion I just don't see how all of them could all of a sudden be cool with the fact that they as Male Channelers and Ashaman have definite ties to the tower who have thus far only ever hunted and gentled males and beat the stuffing out of Rand when they had him. Was a taveren present for this??
For a female warder amke sure the biological similarity is role played as well as the shock the Aes Sedai feel should it be revealed. If you are trying to keep to timelines, try and have it revealed some time after Elayne and Brigitte are found out. Some Aes Sedai seem more resigned to things after their initial shock.

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Buffy: Let me answer that question with a head butt.

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drothgery
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posted March 26, 2003 05:55 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
When Myrelle used the Bond to compel Lan, she had to actively channel to do so; Logain could compel Toviene (and presumably Gabrielle) without doing anything like that.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

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Sharn_Penndroen
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posted March 26, 2003 06:15 PM      Profile for Sharn_Penndroen   Email Sharn_Penndroen    Edit/Delete Post
It would be difficult to have this come out after Elayne and Brigitte. My campaign is a couple of hundred years before Eye of the world. It would be long wait even for an Aes Sedai. [Smile] Besides, I don't really care to keep with the timeline. I know there are a lot of purist out there, but I don't like having my world dictated to me. I like to be able to throw surprises at those who have read the books. [Smile]

Okay I like all of the response, if anyone has any other ideas I would like to here them. I find some of the missunderstandings about the Warder bond and Ashaman Bond, rather than place my responses to them I will just refere to Steve's posts. It's hard to add to a guy who obviously has all of the books memorized. [Smile]

I'll leave it up to the players as to whether they reveal the secret or not. Either way it will be an awesome opportunity to roleplay.

[ March 26, 2003, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Sharn_Penndroen ]

From: Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Freya
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posted March 27, 2003 07:12 AM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Russell:
Two can anyone quote diffrences between the Bond Warder and the Ashaman's Bond.

the Aes Sedai make their Warders give oaths, obedience to the Aes Sedai isn't a function of the bond itself? (V: 413) yet later it is shown that it can be used to do so.



AFAIK, we've only seen one Warder give an oath when he was bonded, and that was Lan to Moiraine. And she didn't ask for it, he gave it as a true Borderlander would do to his new Lord/Lady.

quote:

Alanna tried to compel Rand moments after bonding him, but said it was like trying to uproot an oak with her bare hands. (VI: 620) men have had no such problem with women



I agree with Twistedbutsane on this one. Rand is the ultimate mulehead. He is the Dragon Reborn. He is never a good example of how things work for 'normal' channelers.

And yeah, I think we have yet to get a point-of-view of an Aes Sedai trying to compel her bonded Ashaman. At the very least, we see third-person how Narishma jumps whenever his Aes Sedai gives him a command. (although it sounds like she has a dominatrix persona with her Warders)

quote:

On the Female warder issue.
there are tales of female Warders, but they are so old that Birgitte barely remembers them. (V: 409)

I could have sworn that memory was of one female Warder long, long ago. It was significant that it was only one.

Also, drothgery, can you quote where Myrelle said that she had to 'actively channel' to compel Lan to come to her? I'm sure she had to actively concentrate to use the compulsion part of the bond (because wouldn't want to leave Moiraine unavenged), but 'actively channel(ing)' would seem a bit much. Especially considering very, very few Aes Sedai know the compulsion weave.

--------------------
felicia
AKA Freya Culadin

From: dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sharn_Penndroen
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posted March 27, 2003 10:13 AM      Profile for Sharn_Penndroen   Email Sharn_Penndroen    Edit/Delete Post
If Myrelle had to actively channel or even concentrate, how is it that Moraine knew that at her death Lan would feel a pull to his new Aes Sedai.

If it was Myrelle's doing did she just know to call him because she could feel the new bond. Or was this Moraine's doing. Did she set-up her pass bond weave in such a way that the moment she died Lan would feel compelled to go to Myrelle. I mean she knew that he would be one of those Warders that would throw himself into a battle and hope to die after losing her, so did she plan for this.

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A man who will not die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying

The Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral Ceremony

From: Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
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posted March 27, 2003 10:41 AM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Freya:
Also, drothgery, can you quote where Myrelle said that she had to 'actively channel' to compel Lan to come to her? I'm sure she had to actively concentrate to use the compulsion part of the bond (because wouldn't want to leave Moiraine unavenged), but 'actively channel(ing)' would seem a bit much. Especially considering very, very few Aes Sedai know the compulsion weave.

It certainly seemed like Myrelle was doing something with the Power when she met Lan after the bond passed to her; I could be mistaken, but that's how I read it.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
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posted March 27, 2003 01:11 PM      Profile for Paladin of the Lawful Naughty      Edit/Delete Post
I think that everyone is making this a little harder than it has to be.
1st: There are only two "Official" game books for the WOT game.
--- You have a male half and a female half of the source.
--- You are a Wilder or an Initiate (or a multi class between the two)
--- None of the weaves are dicetcted into male or female only groupings.
--- The order/grouping that a character takes Affinities is the only gender specfic subject surounding weaves.
--- All other selection of Affinities & Talents is up to the player.
2nd: Any use of "Netbooks" or any other type of material is up to the judge that is running the game. His word is law.
3rd: Use the hands to cast or not, kiss the target, or spit on them. Any quirks that the player and/or judge want to place on the character are plot and roleplay devicies.
4th: Most importantly this is a game. Have fun. Sit your group down and decide what works for YOUR group.

--------------------
Spinner of the Great Wheel, Apprentice Lord of the Sith, Palladian of the Lawful Naughty

Recipe for the Palladian of the Lawful Naughty
“Take 1 level of Rogue, add 2 or 3 levels of Fighter then add multiple levels of Palladian. When your GM tells you that you are breaking your Palladian’s alignment remind him that your character came from a dysfunctional background so burning the whole village to the ground to rid the world of evil is ok from his point of view.”

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Steve Russell
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posted March 27, 2003 03:30 PM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
Sharn_Penndroen

my apologizes for taking your topic so far off topic. You may want to use the warder bond from UtDB which allows you to mask the warders bond. Xythlord and I agree that you should lessen the duration. I believe that perhaps you should apply -2 circumstance penelty to the Aes Sedi's actions during situations due to deeper intamacy of the bond unless the Aes Sedi makes a composure cheack. (hey and maybe you are the story briggete cannot remember)

quote:
we've only seen one Warder give an oath when he was bonded, and that was Lan to Moiraine.
Elayne complains about Briggite not obeying her and then she remembers overhearing warders giving oaths.

quote:
I think Alannahs attempts at compulsion over Rand failed either because he is taveren or because of some other Dragon Reborn related reason
I don't think the problem is rand I believe it is because he is a male channeler this would fit with the male having to lead in a two person circle, he also has the feat bullheaded, He also hold the power at the time she tries to compel him and Inside the void it appears to be more difficult to compel Rand. (see Liandrin book 2)Even Alaana relates to his being able to channel

As to the Male Asha'man being compelled there is not even the hint this has been done (Damer and Jahar are noted for disobediance and loving thier Aes Sedi)

A note Aes Sedi they are bonded too are those sworn to rand and have saved rands life or assisted in the fight for his freedom a dumi's wells.

quote:
I will just refere to Steve's posts. It's hard to add to a guy who obviously has all of the books memorized
First I believe if you post you should know what your talking about. Second I have read the books all the way through at least 5 or 6 times (some books more) execept for CoT which I am on my second read. Truthfully I cheat, I use the following links to research my answers.

http://tsos.rarcoa.com/Concordance-TOC.html

http://wot213.tripod.com/links/wheel_of_time_background_links.htm

For the Record I am on board with Xythlord about a new weave not being neccessary (though I would change the name to Bonding), but I may revise some rules for Gender isssues (Asha'man, Aes Sedi, Female Warders, Wives etc.) because the Weave as listed only deals with warders and I do use the Warder's Weave from Under the Dragon's Banner.

quote:
If Myrelle had to actively channel or even concentrate
Myrelle compels Lan through their bond with a touch of Spirit so delicate he won't feel it. (VI: 652)

quote:
The order/grouping that a character takes Affinities is the only gender specfic subject surounding weaves., All other selection of Affinities & Talents is up to the player.
Any use of "Netbooks" or any other type of material is up to the judge that is running the game. His word is law.
3rd: Use the hands to cast or not, kiss the target, or spit on them. Any quirks that the player and/or judge want to place on the character are plot and roleplay devicies.
4th: Most importantly this is a game. Have fun. Sit your group down and decide what works for YOUR group.

First off there are two fronts to this Issue Lore monkeys and Balance monkeys (Im a Lore Monkey)

you are correct Rpging is about fun my characters have fun because they want to play in RJ's World and every problem with the rules that does not match the books annoys them otherwise we would go back to my world and play DnD.

Yet I will address this. One you forget Weavesight, Learning, Bonus Weaves, Maddness and Linking being gender issues of game mechanics. As for gender not being an Issue it is one of the primary Themes of the WoT if you missed that look at it this way "Because men and women did not work together they were unable to defeat the dark one." (that's straight RJ)

As for the rules yes a GM is a master he gets the final guess at how it should go. Yet even the offical rules are subject to interpretation and every GM I know has thier own house rules. (my rules for wilder's blocks and learning weaves are quite difficult and dangerous) Guess what there likely will be no more official material for the WoT: Wotc will not pay the licence. Now I recently learned that Call of the Horn was trying to become the Offical Website of the RPG I would whole heartedly support anything that encouraged the growth of this RPG. You may distain the Netbook (personally i am apprecaitive of all the work for no pay) and only use offical jargan. Yet I will always appreciate more toys.

I am sorry If that came out harch but I have recently become aware of the fact that people involved in the netbook and websites are feeling a bit rejected. Hell my game would not have been nearly as much fun without people like Eosin the Red, MAB, Shadowkiller, Vish, and Xythlord (sorry to anyone I forgot)

They are the people who will help keep this message board alive an give us something to talk about. (what will happen when The Wheel of Time Rpg goes out of print?)

--------------------
I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paladin of the Lawful Naughty
Member
Member # 129294



posted March 27, 2003 06:32 PM      Profile for Paladin of the Lawful Naughty      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Steve Russell:


I don't think the problem is rand I believe it is because he is a male channeler this would fit with the male having to lead in a two person circle, he also has the feat bullheaded, He also hold the power at the time she tries to compel him and Inside the void it appears to be more difficult to compel Rand. (see Liandrin book 2)Even Alaana relates to his being able to channel

As to the Male Asha'man being compelled there is not even the hint this has been done (Damer and Jahar are noted for disobediance and loving thier Aes Sedi)

A note Aes Sedi they are bonded too are those sworn to rand and have saved rands life or assisted in the fight for his freedom a dumi's wells.

________________________________________________
PtLN
On the above subject I agree.
_________________________________________________

For the Record I am on board with Xythlord about a new weave not being neccessary (though I would change the name to Bonding), but I may revise some rules for Gender isssues (Asha'man, Aes Sedi, Female Warders, Wives etc.) because the Weave as listed only deals with warders and I do use the Warder's Weave from Under the Dragon's Banner.
__________________________________________________
PtLN
Yes the gender of the receipient/caster can have a diverse affect of the weaves final outcome. I didn't meen to imply diffrently. The weave listed in either the WOT handbook or the Netbook doesnot specify gender to the best of my knowledge. Don't crucify me if it does I don't have my copy of either in front of me. But if it did the Briggit could not have been bonded, am I wrong?
___________________________________________________
quote:
The order/grouping that a character takes Affinities is the only gender specfic subject surounding weaves., All other selection of Affinities & Talents is up to the player.
Any use of "Netbooks" or any other type of material is up to the judge that is running the game. His word is law.
3rd: Use the hands to cast or not, kiss the target, or spit on them. Any quirks that the player and/or judge want to place on the character are plot and roleplay devicies.
4th: Most importantly this is a game. Have fun. Sit your group down and decide what works for YOUR group.


First off there are two fronts to this Issue Lore monkeys and Balance monkeys (Im a Lore Monkey)
__________________________________________________
PtLN
I fall somewher inbetween the two. Just so you know that I can keep an open mind.
___________________________________________________
you are correct Rpging is about fun my characters have fun because they want to play in RJ's World and every problem with the rules that does not match the books annoys them otherwise we would go back to my world and play DnD.
_____________________________________
PtLN
I am with you so far with out argument.
______________________________________

Yet I will address this. One you forget Weavesight, Learning, Bonus Weaves, Maddness and Linking being gender issues of game mechanics. As for gender not being an Issue it is one of the primary Themes of the WoT if you missed that look at it this way "Because men and women did not work together they were unable to defeat the dark one." (that's straight RJ)
______________________________________________
PtLN
OK. I freely admit that I forgot the items you mention above, and have no argument with them. But my point was that yes there are two sides to the One Power but BOTH genders can accomplish the same results (Except Rand, since he throws the rule book out the window to start with!) even if it take longer or more experience for one party or the other. That holds true in life. My wife is better with money than I am but on the other hand I am better at the computer.
___________________________________________________

As for the rules yes a GM is a master he gets the final guess at how it should go. Yet even the offical rules are subject to interpretation and every GM I know has thier own house rules. (my rules for wilder's blocks and learning weaves are quite difficult and dangerous) Guess what there likely will be no more official material for the WoT: Wotc will not pay the licence. Now I recently learned that Call of the Horn was trying to become the Offical Website of the RPG I would whole heartedly support anything that encouraged the growth of this RPG. You may distain the Netbook (personally i am apprecaitive of all the work for no pay) and only use offical jargan. Yet I will always appreciate more toys.

I am sorry If that came out harch but I have recently become aware of the fact that people involved in the netbook and websites are feeling a bit rejected. Hell my game would not have been nearly as much fun without people like Eosin the Red, MAB, Shadowkiller, Vish, and Xythlord (sorry to anyone I forgot)

They are the people who will help keep this message board alive an give us something to talk about. (what will happen when The Wheel of Time Rpg goes out of print?)[/QB][/QUOTE]

__________________________________________________
PtLN
I didn't meen to soud like one of thoes people that goes around saying "Well it isn't an official product so it can't be worth using." I myself have a copy of the Netbook as well as various downloads from dozens of sites. I have incorporated various parts of these into my campaig world.

Yes, it yanks my chain that WotC are letting one of the best games around slip through their fingers. I was unawere that Call of the Horn was working to gain the "Official Website" status. COT is my faviort WOT site! I even have a couple of postings there (Warden of the Green, & a 2nd version of a Two Rivers Archer.). I wish him all the luck in the hopes that a true fan of the books and the game will get to run the show.

I appalude all of the hard WORK (yes work! typing all that game material is a job) that the Netbook team has done. My hat is off to them.

No hard feelings on this side of the screen. I've been married Since Aug. of 91' so no harm no foul! I like a good debate any way.

--------------------
Spinner of the Great Wheel, Apprentice Lord of the Sith, Palladian of the Lawful Naughty

Recipe for the Palladian of the Lawful Naughty
“Take 1 level of Rogue, add 2 or 3 levels of Fighter then add multiple levels of Palladian. When your GM tells you that you are breaking your Palladian’s alignment remind him that your character came from a dysfunctional background so burning the whole village to the ground to rid the world of evil is ok from his point of view.”

Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged


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