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Author Topic: Overchanneling is not that serious!
Elsbon
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posted October 03, 2002 01:43 PM      Profile for Elsbon      Edit/Delete Post
Is anyone sure that the Concentration(Wisdom) isn't simply a misprint? Everywhere else in the book I think Concentration is listed as Constitution based. I'm not at home right now, so I can't check what the character sheet lists it as. Since it's Con-based in DnD, it seemed that basing it off Wisdom was just a misprint. Have you read/heard anything...somewhat offical perhaps?

Considering I'm playing a channeler, basing it off of Wisdom would be nice, but I'd like to have a better reason to give my GM than my Wis bonus is higher. [Big Grin]

From: Ann Arbor, MI USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Xythlord
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posted October 03, 2002 02:05 PM      Profile for Xythlord   Email Xythlord    Edit/Delete Post
Granted it definately could be a misprint (either on the class skills or the Primary attribute for the skill itself), but if you look at both the Wilder and Initiate class they have Concentration (Wis). Furthermore the Asha'man, the Aes Sedai, the Windfinder and the Aiel Wisewoman all have Concentration (wis), while the Gleeman has Concentration (Con). It would seem to me that since a great many of the abilities for channeling are tied to Concentration that for a channeler the Concentration skill was meant to be tied to the Wis attribute. For all others, it is based of the Con attribute.

More than likely the skills were just cut and paste from the D&D stuff, while the classes were more thoroughly worked out (just a guess though). I wasn't able to find out anything from the FAQ, maybe I'll try emailing somebody and trying to get a response.

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From: Denver, Co | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Freya
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posted October 03, 2002 02:06 PM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Elsbon:
Is anyone sure that the Concentration(Wisdom) isn't simply a misprint? Everywhere else in the book I think Concentration is listed as Constitution based. I'm not at home right now, so I can't check what the character sheet lists it as. Since it's Con-based in DnD, it seemed that basing it off Wisdom was just a misprint. Have you read/heard anything...somewhat offical perhaps?

If it was only once or twice, I would think it's a misprint. But, it's every channeling class. Only. True, in the 'skills' section, it says constitution, but that section was most likely a cut-n-paste from any other d20 game. [Wink]

Besides, Wisdom makes more sense for channelers. They aren't controlling the flows with their strength of body, but with their strength of will.

quote:

Considering I'm playing a channeler, basing it off of Wisdom would be nice, but I'd like to have a better reason to give my GM than my Wis bonus is higher. [Big Grin]

Agreed. Wisdom is my character's highest stat. (detemined prior to converting to d20) Luckily, my GM agreed that Concentration(wis) made sense for channelers. [Big Grin]

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felicia
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From: dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gray Skwid
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posted October 03, 2002 02:17 PM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Elsbon:
Is anyone sure that the Concentration(Wisdom) isn't simply a misprint? Everywhere else in the book I think Concentration is listed as Constitution based. I'm not at home right now, so I can't check what the character sheet lists it as. Since it's Con-based in DnD, it seemed that basing it off Wisdom was just a misprint. Have you read/heard anything...somewhat offical perhaps?
Considering I'm playing a channeler, basing it off of Wisdom would be nice, but I'd like to have a better reason to give my GM than my Wis bonus is higher. [Big Grin]

In every description of every channelling class and Prestige class in the core book, Concentration is listed as a class skill with the key ability as wisdom. That's pretty official, if you ask me.

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From: The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Melriken
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posted October 04, 2002 12:18 AM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gray Skwid:
In every description of every channelling class and Prestige class in the core book, Concentration is listed as a class skill with the key ability as wisdom. That's pretty official, if you ask me.

actually that doesnt mean anything, for one the stat listing in the skill section isnt game text, it is just a note to aid quick reference, what matters is the skill itself.

for a second thing the list of channaling skills was probably written up once, then cut and pasted into each class that could channal, then all the other skills that class gets were added.

read the concentration skill, it really doenst look like a cut and paste from any other d20 game, and it doesnt say anything about wisdom, only about con.

*officialy* concentraion is a constitution skill, if your game master want it to be wisdom, well more power to him, but recognise that that is a house rule supported by flavor text, not a either or case where you went one way and some other people went the other.

please note I have no problem with house rules, I only have problems with people claming them to be official.

unless you can find a sentence in the book that says 'for channalers concentration is a wisdom skill' I stand that it is a con skill. (and I just skimed the skill description and didnt see anything)

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The prior post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.

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RocPhoenix
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posted October 04, 2002 10:10 AM      Profile for RocPhoenix   Email RocPhoenix    Edit/Delete Post
The turn that this post took interested me so I emailed FAQ at the Tower Library. Brian said that it should still be a Con skill and not a Wisdom. I guess take that as you would. I have another question, though. Is ispossible to overchannel outside your talent beyond the 2nd/0 level maximum? If I have a wilder who does not have the Talent of Travel, but has the Spirit affinity, can I still cast the weave create gateway, just as an overchanneled weave? I asked Brian as well and I just wnated to see what you folks thought.
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Melriken
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posted October 04, 2002 10:19 AM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RocPhoenix:
The turn that this post took interested me so I emailed FAQ at the Tower Library. Brian said that it should still be a Con skill and not a Wisdom. I guess take that as you would. I have another question, though. Is ispossible to overchannel outside your talent beyond the 2nd/0 level maximum? If I have a wilder who does not have the Talent of Travel, but has the Spirit affinity, can I still cast the weave create gateway, just as an overchanneled weave? I asked Brian as well and I just wnated to see what you folks thought.

I dont have my book with me, but the question comes down to:
if I dont have healing, I can still learn the Heal weave, can I cast it as a 3rd level weave by overchannaling a 0th level slot?
to answer this question you must understand that at the very least you would have to use a 0th level slot to cast the weave, in which case you would have to have no 1st level slots left, no 2nd level slots left, no 3rd level slots left, ect, then you could attempt it.

givin that structure I am 99% sure that you can NOT overchannal out of your talents to get higher level weaves than you could normaly cast (nor can you over channal in your talents to get weaves over your casting stat-10)

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The prior post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.

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theSaj
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posted October 04, 2002 11:25 AM      Profile for theSaj   Email theSaj    Edit/Delete Post
I would agree with those who say WIS, is the CONCENTRATION stat for channellers.

Special, always over-rides generic.

CON is generic for Concentration.

However, WIS is special channellers as detailed in their specialized classes...

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From: New Haven, Connecticut | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Elsbon
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posted October 05, 2002 11:17 AM      Profile for Elsbon      Edit/Delete Post
Well, it seems that an 'official' line would have Concentration Con based, but that many of you prefer Wis based (with the idea that it's WoT, not DnD - it doesn't have to follow DnD rules). Guess I'll just ask my GM and see what she says; can't hurt. [Smile]

I thought I should comment on the actual topic, which was overchanneling, and how Moridin00 wanted to see more of it. Actually, I believe we've never used overchanneling in our game. My character (being male) channels rarely and rather subtly. The other channeling character hasn't really seemed to need it. If it did seem dramatically appropriate, I would overchannel; just haven't had the right situation, I guess.

The point I really wanted to bring up was the actual mechanics of overchanneling. I was wondering if people thought they represent the books reasonably well. In the books, it seems that often someone will acomplish something rather impressive, and then fall down sick, etc. As set up in the RPG, if it works, then there aren't any side effects. If I had overchanneled, regardless if it worked fine, I would roleplay some sort of exertion (or fatige after), but the rules don't seem to support this situtation (where the weave works, but at a cost). Or is this just supposed to be balanced out by repeated use (eventually a character will fail a roll)?

From: Ann Arbor, MI USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jkol the Butcher
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posted October 05, 2002 11:52 AM      Profile for Jkol the Butcher   Email Jkol the Butcher    Edit/Delete Post
I feel that concentration should remain a con skill - after all - the greatest difficulty with over channeling is physical exertion. When a person channels they use their body as a physical conduit for the one power - thus it makes sense that a channeler's concentration should be con.

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Grey Danvar
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posted October 05, 2002 12:42 PM      Profile for Grey Danvar      Edit/Delete Post
Three quick things.

1) The Concentration skill description is most definitely not a cut and paste from any other d20 game.

2) In the Initiate and Wilder class descriptions, under the heading Abilities in the last sentence, it says that these classes benefit from high Constitution scores.

3) On page 67, table 4-2, it also lists Concentration as a Con based skill while displaying which classes it is a class skill for.

[ October 05, 2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Grey Danvar ]

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From: Grand Junction, CO, US | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Grey Danvar
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posted October 05, 2002 01:07 PM      Profile for Grey Danvar      Edit/Delete Post
One more thing, and this may solve the argument. On page 19, under the heading Constitution, the third bullet says: "Concentration checks. This skill, important to channelers, has Constitution as its key ability."

I think we can safely assume that Concentration(Wis) is a misprint. [Smile]

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From: Grand Junction, CO, US | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
RocPhoenix
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posted October 05, 2002 09:42 PM      Profile for RocPhoenix   Email RocPhoenix    Edit/Delete Post
You should have seen the tear of joy in my eye when one of my PC gamers overchanneled today. He (playing a wilder/initiate) does small ones often, but today went for using a 3rd level slot, with a +1 angreal, the affinity, to overchannel an 8th level weave. Everything was cool, until later he did the math and realized that he had a 40% chance of failure, and of that, a 50% chance of stilling his character. I am proud and laughing hysterically about his shock at what he had almost done to his character. I run a NPC male channeler and overchannel every so often, because the madness thing is no too bad, when you get used to it. It adds flavor. Anyway, I encourage overchanneling because it is risks like this that make the game more fun. A group of armsmen walking around killing peasants is nothing. Throw them against a Mydraal at a low level and watch them push themselves to the max! It is great!
A long post just to say that I am still in favor of overchanneling as often as possible!

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wierdbob
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posted October 06, 2002 02:37 AM      Profile for wierdbob      Edit/Delete Post
The only non-chanelling class to have Concentration is Gleeman and under the skills listing on the prestige class it shows it as Con bassed, however every channeling class and prestige class lists Concentration as a Wis skill.

I believe that channelers should use Wis when trying to channel in adverse conditions as that would be more of a sign of mental control but if they had to try to channel whilst bieng beaten with sticks then Con should be used as that would be a case of phisical conditioning.

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Wierdbob
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Melriken
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posted October 06, 2002 12:02 PM      Profile for Melriken   Email Melriken    Edit/Delete Post
when WoT makes a specific change like channalers using wis for concentration instead of constitution, they tell you they are doing it. However the whole rule book says you use constitution, even for channalers ('constitution is important for channalers because concentration checks...') infact the ONLY implication that it is wis based is the reminder text in the class listing, which is a cut and paste for all the channaling classes (ie there are a group of skills that every channaling class has, and they are cut and pasted into each class)

a single mistake copyed a half dozen times does not change the rules.

that all said if you want to use Wis for your games concentration on channalers, well go ahead and do it, but recognise it is a house rule.

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The prior post is in no way intended to represent the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. Read at your own risk.

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