my profile | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Wizards.Com Boards   » Wheel of Time   » Embracing The Source

   
Author Topic: Embracing The Source
sfgiantsfanmike
Member
Member # 86751



posted August 06, 2002 07:23 PM      Profile for sfgiantsfanmike   Email sfgiantsfanmike    Edit/Delete Post
I posted this about a month ago in the one power forum, and got two responses (other than the one I made).

I am starting a game real soon (hopefully withing two weeks, got 99.9% complete), and I just don't like the way embracing the source goes via the gamebook rules.

I deveolped this so that embracing the source would be more like the books, and make sense. I use a Composure skill check to see how fast you embrace the source (seems about right, at least from the way I think on it).

This "system" allows for something the game doesn't take into acount.. inability to embrace the source, and the ability to "counter" something coming at you.

When a character wants to embrace the source, have him/her make the composure check. This can be used in situations to "counter." By that, I mean they can do something when some trys to do something to them. ie, some one throws a knife at the character (like Brashear does to Rand in the begining of Lord of Chaos), they can try to embrace the source and snag it with a harden air. Can be attempted only once a round.

dc- How long it takes

0-9 Fail to embrace the source
10-15 full round action
16-25 action
26-35 free action
36+ free action + one weave up to lvl 1

I see this method of taking into account experience with the one power through max ranks (a level one channlers just dosent have the ranks in Composure to be able to react, but a 10th level channeler should be able to, some of the time).

Comments, ect apreciated.

[ August 07, 2002, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: sfgiantsfanmike ]

--------------------
What was once, will be again...

So where's the rewind button???

From: sactamento, ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Nae'blis' Chief Eunuch
Member
Member # 94367



posted August 06, 2002 08:07 PM      Profile for Nae'blis' Chief Eunuch   Email Nae'blis' Chief Eunuch    Edit/Delete Post
It looks surprisingly good although I am cautious to give more power to channelers then they already have. IMHO I don't think there should be anything beyond embracing the source as a free action. The way I am reading it currently, a character can in the first round of combat roll a really good composure check and get off two weaves in the one round (one as a free action as part of the embracing mechanic you describe, and the other as a normal standard action).

The way to limit this would be to introduce a new channelling feat. Without the feat, the character would only ever be able to embrace as a standard action at best (the current game mechanic). If the character has the feat however, they can achieve better results.

You might also want to consider inserting somewhere on your table embracing as a move action. This would allow the channeler on their action to embrace and cast a weave in the one round. so a revised table would look like

DC
less than 10 fail to embrace the source
10 to 15 embrace as a full round action
15 to 25 embrace as a standard action
25 to 35 embrace as a move action
35+ embrace as a free action

New feat: Quickened Embrace
prerequisites: Composure 8 ranks
Normal: without this feat, a channeller can at best embrace the source as a standard action.
Benefit: With this feat, they are able to achieve better results as listed on the table above.

--------------------
I was once in the Blight, it was there that strange memories came to me of times and places that I could not have possibly experienced.
I went to visit an Aes Sedai to ask what was wrong with me. It was there that I learned the Truth...
That I had in a previous life been Nae'blis'...
Chief Eunuch!

From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
torchflame
Member
Member # 42148



posted August 07, 2002 11:39 AM      Profile for torchflame      Edit/Delete Post
I would also limit it to a free action. Anything more would make channelers more powerful than is really necessary.

--------------------
"As flies to wanton boys, are we to the gods;
They kill us for their sport."

William Shakespeare - King Lear

From: US | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
sfgiantsfanmike
Member
Member # 86751



posted August 07, 2002 01:37 PM      Profile for sfgiantsfanmike   Email sfgiantsfanmike    Edit/Delete Post
First off,

in WoT, there are no standard/move actions. Just actions. The round is supposed to be broken up into two such actions, a move action and an attack action.

Second, I think you might be right about letting them get a freebie... but the just is awful high to get it. A level 10 channeler, with 20 in wisdom, and max ranks (total check of 18)makes this check on a 17. That's pretty rough to do. Even a level 20 with 22 in wisdom doesn't get that high of a check routinely (total check mod of 29.. still need a 6, a 30% failure).

How about making the check a little tougher.. like 40 or so. Again, given the max wisdom score and ranks of a 20th level channeler, she only makes the check on an 11.

It makes the check almost impossible to make at even decent levels...

I am going to change the level of the weave to 1st or less though, not fireballing as a free action (even with a 5' spread). This will give a channeler the ability to counter something (again, the thrown dagger), but not much else.

Thanks so far

--------------------
What was once, will be again...

So where's the rewind button???

From: sactamento, ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Crimson_red
Member
Member # 9977



posted August 07, 2002 03:36 PM      Profile for Crimson_red      Edit/Delete Post
IF I'm figuring this 'countering' thing out right You don't need the extra free action; this is how I see the example you gave would play out (using your quicken embrace use of composure):

-Brashear choses to throw the knife at Rand; both characters are aware (atleast at some level). So roll initiative.

-Initiative resaults: Rand wins

-Rand's Action: Succeeds Composure check; embraces as a free or move action (it rather irrelavent which). Attack: he readies Harden air incase Brashear fallows through.

-Brashear's Action: Move: Draws Knife. Attack: Throws knife.

-Rand's Ready Action: Catches dagger with harden air.

I'm assuming one can ready a weave.

If you still want to give that free weave for a high score make a feat to do so, much like Heroic Surge. I guess it could go like this:

Power Surge

You can embrace the true source with such efficeincy that you make channel more than one weave per round.

Prereqs : Heroic Surge, Quicken Embrace, Composure 12

Benefits : You may cast an extra weave either before or after your regular action if your composure check resault to embrace the source is 35 or higher. This weave can not be heigher than 3rd level and can't have a casting time longer than 1 action. You may use Power Surge once per day for every four channeler levels you have attained, but never more than once per round. You can't use this feat during the same round that you use Heroic surge.

Not the most origenal feat in existance, and it doesn't counter very well. Alone I wouldn't think it very good, but building with heroic surge as a base does toughen it up... exceptionaly.

Not that it matters but...
quote:
Originally from the Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game: Pg. 132

Actions: There are four types of actions: attack actions, move actions, full-round actions, and free-actions.



[ August 07, 2002, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Crimson_red ]

--------------------
He Who Should Not Speak,
Crimmer

From: Here and There | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eldren
Member
Member # 54611



posted August 10, 2002 12:32 AM      Profile for Eldren   Email Eldren    Edit/Delete Post
If I recall correctly, Wheel of Time uses the same basic round structure as all the other d20 games: You can have one move-equivalent action and one standard action in a round, or you can take a full-attack action and only move five feet, or you can take a full (double) move (or run at four times your movement rate).

According to the RPG book, embracing (or seizing) the True Source is a full-round action. They did this to balance the awesome power that channelers have (don't believe me? See how YOU like it when your channeler busts off with a mere 3rd level "Arms of Air" weave and incapacitates your BBEG in one round!). If you're a Wilder, it's even worse because you have a block to get past, if you didn't take the Eliminate Block feat. I didn't like that a Wilder was going to have to take two rounds before they could channel, so I made the Composure check to reach the appropriate state for them to get past their block part of the round in which they were embracing or seizing the True Source. But that was just me.

But it's an important balancing tool, since those with the use of the One Power are so obviously more powerful than mundane people who can't touch the True Source. To remove this balancing factor would make the channeling classes WAY too powerful. They already, IMO, hover on the edge of too powerful as it is. No one who isn't a channeler is going to beat a channeler, unless they have assistance FROM a channeler (or, if they're really lucky like Mat Cauthon, they have a ter'angreal that completely shunts aside any weaves cast at them). That's just the way things work in the Wheel of Time, unfortunately.

So I would highly recommend keeping the "one round to prepare your weave" rule. After that, it makes no real difference, because I don't think there are any weaves in the book that take longer than a standard action to cast.

[ August 10, 2002, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Eldren ]

--------------------
"Is touching myself a full-round action?" Asked by a Paladin who wanted to know how long his Lay On Hands would take...

Nothing Sucks Foundation Member 000066.

Nerf Warriors Foundation Founder & Member 000001.

Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
sfgiantsfanmike
Member
Member # 86751



posted August 10, 2002 11:50 AM      Profile for sfgiantsfanmike   Email sfgiantsfanmike    Edit/Delete Post
To say that a channeler isn't balanced vs. the other classes is unfair.

Take a high level arsman, woodsman, algai'd'siswai. Will probably go first, get to you, and deal you what might be a lethal blow before you can TRY to embrace the source. Plus they have one other advantage over you... they keep their levels in their classes untill they die.

Not so with a channeler. They get hit with sever, using some of the new shielding rules that should give a linked group major bonuses on dc's, a channeler can loose the ability to use their class abilities/ect and still live.. and be really uneffective characters. They can also burn themselves out if they're trying to overchannel, they can also be controlled with an a'dam, they can be turned to the shadow against their will. If all that isn't enough balancing to the other classes.. I don't know what is.

You try playing a 20th level armsman that's lost nearly every feat he's taken and see how well he plays.

That's that with balance question, at least to me.

As for the rest... I'm probably taking out the "free" weave... or setting it to lvl 0, and adding some other restriction to it. I'm still playing with it.

As for the actions.. In WoT their are 2 actions to a full round action, and the actions are move, and attack.. don't have the quote from book handy, so I may be wrong. If I am, I am.

--------------------
What was once, will be again...

So where's the rewind button???

From: sactamento, ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
JosephKell
Member
Member # 99447


posted August 10, 2002 03:27 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
Sever is just a risk that goes with having great power. The only risk of severing I have noticed is being severed by the opposite gender, and that is a level 12 weave, because you can't detect it. The only way the Aes Sedai did that historically was to use a circle of 13 and the White Wand (+7 Sa'Angreal), and I think you would notice thirteen women holding hands staring at you intently while clutching an exotic item. Still scared? All you have to worry about are shields, and they aren't permanent.

Face it most male channelers are on the same side, and most female ones want a reason before they turn on their own.

And Non-channelers have like one chance to take out a channeler once they reach about 5th level, and that is with an ambush. Ward against people makes an armsman useless, and forces woodsman and Aiel to go to ranged. And ranged can still be stopped by harden air.

And why would someone take a feat that could potentially leave them defenseless? the Quicken Embrace feat should never extend the time it takes to embrace or sieze the one power. If you can embrace at the top of the round (i.e. before anyone acts like a "super" free action) you should count as not flat footed and get your normal actions, and you could count affects done to you as not occuring until your initiative. The dagger thrown comes to you and on your initiative it is about to reach you and you do what. And the DC to stop it should be the attack roll against you. Treat this as deflect arrows but with Willpower rather than Reflex. And you expend a weave slot appropriate.

[ August 11, 2002, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: JosephKell ]

--------------------
Instant Message me @ JonERPG on the AIMer

Visit AielManSpear

-If you cast Meteor Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells...
-If your character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook...
-If you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four charges left...
-If the God of Destiny asks you what will have next...
...you might be a Munchkin.

From: California | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dortamur
Member
Member # 63897



posted August 10, 2002 07:29 PM      Profile for Dortamur      Edit/Delete Post
I like the idea of faster embracing being possible, and a skill check, but I don't think a "Composure" check is correct in all situations.

The prime example is wilders. They do not embrace the source the same as initiates, and often they need to be the opposite of composed, requiring high emotions to get over a block, etc...

How about making it a Concentration check for Wilders, and maybe even Initiates? Perhaps Initiates could use either, as they choose, or as the situation warrants?

Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged


All times are Pacific Time  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | http://www.wizards.com/ | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin BoardTM 6.2.0

Shop Games Books Magazines Stores Events Company Worldwide Community