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Author Topic: The Three Oaths and the Oath Rod(s)
lostone
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posted May 21, 2003 06:11 PM      Profile for lostone      Edit/Delete Post
I'm going to be running a game set 50 years after Tarmon Gaidon, and had some thoughts/questions I wanted to get opinions/answers for:

Seeing as the Black Ajah can get around the Oath Rod, how would the Tower root them out after Tarmon Gaidon? I was thinking maybe a 4th oath, that the Aes Sedai will not renounce any of the four oaths (would that work?). Or maybe every year all sisters have to renounce all oaths and swear them again (and any that are gone from the Tower longer than that have to do this immediately upon return to the Tower). This is done in front of the Hall.

Also, the White Tower has the three oaths so that the world will accept them. I was thinking that maybe the Black Tower would do the same thing (I haven't read Crossroads, so I'm assuming it's still there). I'm guessing they would be a lot less strict than the White Tower. What would the three oaths for the Black Tower be?

They wouldn't cripple themselves in combat, so don't think the one about using the One Power as a weapon would apply, at least not as strictly, maybe something about using the One Power as a weapon only for the greater good or something like that.

I don't believe they'd flat out swear against lying, but maybe something that they will not say something is true unless it is (so if they say "that is the truth" they aren't lying).

From: Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Generality
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posted May 21, 2003 06:22 PM      Profile for Generality   Email Generality    Edit/Delete Post
If this is post-Last Battle, the Dark One is either locked up or has enslaved the world. Either way there's no reason for Oath-taking to prove oneself to people.

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If the Dark One's name is forbidden, how does anyone know what it is?

From: Here | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
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posted May 21, 2003 09:12 PM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
No offense but that is silly just because you lock away the dark one does not mean people stop being stupid. I woould think it would cooler though if it was set afterwards and rand had lost.

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From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sharn_Penndroen
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posted May 21, 2003 09:57 PM      Profile for Sharn_Penndroen   Email Sharn_Penndroen    Edit/Delete Post
I don't know if you would get the Ashaman to swear on the oath rod easily and I don't think that they would restrict their ability to kill or make weapons. They are weapons. If they were to take an oath it would probably simply be to serve the light and I don't know if they would have to swear that on an Oath rod. As far as the Oath Rod helping to ferret out the Black ajah, I don't think that would help much. Obviously the Dark One has some ability to free them from these oaths. I think that they could take an oath on the Rod every day of the week and still not have to keep it.

That is just the way I see it though. You may be looking for a certain setting for your campaign that I'm not aware of. The Oaths that the AS and the Ashaman take could be a good part of that. I just don't see too much changing in the AS oath's as they are. But then again I haven't looked too hard.

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A man who will not die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying

The Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral Ceremony

From: Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
JosephKell
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posted May 21, 2003 10:06 PM      Profile for JosephKell   Email JosephKell    Edit/Delete Post
The Oathrods did more harm than good. The Oaths made it so that every Aes Sedai HAD to be with the White Tower, "How could an Aes Sedai lie?" Any item that impinges on the judgement of an individual is a risk because "as long as there are cooperatives, there are those that would cheat the system."

The Asha'man are suspicious of each other because they have no item to "force" honesty and what not, but that suspicion isn't exactly ungrounded! While the Aes Sedai are so set in their ways that they must RELY on the Oathrod ferret out people.

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From: California | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Whitewinds
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posted May 23, 2003 01:13 PM      Profile for Whitewinds   Email Whitewinds    Edit/Delete Post
Frankly, in my experience, the Oath Rod's oaths are all but meaningless. In "Eye of the World" Moiraine uses the Power as a weapon against a guardsman when she's not even close to the "final extremity," the Aes Sedai routinely twist, shade and slant their every utterance to mislead and imply false conclusions, and "making no weapon" is irrelevant since none of them have the skills to do so even if they weren't restricted that way. The real effect of the oaths is to make people think that they're somehow less dangerous, which is not what the Asha'man would want. Aes Sedai, in general, are political manipulators, double-dealers and schemers, constitutionally unable to do anything in a straightforward way or to speak openly and plainly even when it's to their benefit. Asha'man, on the other side, are soldiers and guardians, policemen of a sort. To be effective they must operate openly and honestly, and they *want* to be considered dangerous. It's a good thing in their profession. Think of policemen - they want honest folk to respect them, even like them, and criminals to fear them. Same with the Asha'man. So, no Oaths. Just ethics.

[ May 23, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Whitewinds ]

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Freya
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posted May 23, 2003 02:35 PM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Whitewinds:
Think of policemen - they want honest folk to respect them, even like them, and criminals to fear them. Same with the Asha'man. So, no Oaths. Just ethics.

[Roll Eyes]
The Ashaman are no more altruistic in nature than the Aes Sedai are.

Rand intended them to be weapons...guardians at best (as the name implies), but most are nothing of the sort. This has nothing to do with their original intentions not being good, but everything to do with the man who is teaching them...Taim. Taim is not making policemen. He is creating followers. Followers for himself. Only those who are near Rand are good, but those are a small, small few. We'll just have to wait and see what Logain accomplishes.

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From: dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Shadowkiller
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posted May 24, 2003 09:08 AM      Profile for Shadowkiller      Edit/Delete Post
Check out my webpage about my game set 20 years after TG. I put a lot of thought into the history. A link to the page is in my signature. Unfortunately I have gotten lazy with updating the webpage but I've always been motivated by others so if I got a significant amount of email(3 or more) asking me to update, I would definitely get around to it soon [Wink] .

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From: Currently-Germany | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sophiathegreen
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posted May 25, 2003 08:58 PM      Profile for Sophiathegreen   Email Sophiathegreen    Edit/Delete Post
There are time where criminal and police help each other to get really sick criminal off the street. Where I came come before moving to El Paso than really sick person was putting 100 % pure heron in cookie and hand then out for Hallen on Oct 31. The Mafie local Godfather found out who was doing it and called the police with the infro and he was arrest with 6 kilo of pure heron in his home. Ten or 20 little kid die from these heron lace cookies which upset the godfather as Oct 31 was one of his favorite
holday where he handout homemake cookies to trick and treater. Plus the Police and Mafic member also went trick and treaten dress up in coustens.

From: El Pase Texas | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
lostone
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posted May 26, 2003 08:15 PM      Profile for lostone      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sharn_Penndroen:
As far as the Oath Rod helping to ferret out the Black ajah, I don't think that would help much. Obviously the Dark One has some ability to free them from these oaths. I think that they could take an oath on the Rod every day of the week and still not have to keep it.

Have you read Winter's Heart? They are successfully finding Black Ajah with the Oath Rod. I don't remember them saying how the Black Ajah beats the oaths (they may not have thought to ask, or RJ didn't think it important to put in, or I don't remember), but it would be a simple matter for a Black Ajah who is high up (sitter, etc) to sneak the Oath Rod out for any member to remove the three oaths and replace them with others for the Black Ajah.
From: Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sharn_Penndroen
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posted May 27, 2003 04:24 AM      Profile for Sharn_Penndroen   Email Sharn_Penndroen    Edit/Delete Post
To answer your question, Have you read Winter's Heart?

No. I'll be starting it in a couple of weeks. RL is a little busy at the moment, but I'm getting there.

I'd be interested to learn how they are using the Oath Rod to ferret out the Black Ajah. Currently I'm under the impression, that the Dark One is somehow able to free them from these Oath's and this is why I don't believe your idea of a high ranking Aes sedai sneaks the rod out for them.

I suppose that the Head of the Black Ajah may know all members, but certainly they don't all know all memebers, neither do all members know the head of the Black Ajah. The Black Ajah is divided into groups of 3 (I believe called a Heart). Those three know each other and each one of them knows one other outside of their group. So every member knows only 3 others. Liandrin's group didn't know about each other until the time came for them to all work together. I'm sure not every member can have a member of their Heart being a high ranking official. Not to say that it is impossible, I just find it unlikely. Although a lot seems to happen that is unlikely, so you may have the right of it, Iostone.

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A man who will not die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying

The Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral Ceremony

From: Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Snow Crash
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posted May 27, 2003 06:49 AM      Profile for Snow Crash      Edit/Delete Post
I believe the three oaths were not overcome by the dark one , rather they were removed. If a black sister retook the oaths she would be again bound by them, and probably the DO would not remove them again just to punish her for being stupid enough to put herslef in that situation again. What about the possibility that the oath rod is actually one of the nine rods of dominion in which case the question begs can the oaths be removed using one of the other rods.
From: Australia | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged


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