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Author Topic: Lost Talents
Jkol the Butcher
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posted September 22, 2002 05:23 PM      Profile for Jkol the Butcher   Email Jkol the Butcher    Edit/Delete Post
Are there limitations on when one can take lost talents? The talent selected at level 1 - must be a common talent - but what about future ones? Presumably a level two initate could use her bonus feat to take the balefire talent - which probably wouldn't come in handy until she ran into a forsaken, Moriane or some other woman who could teach her balefire (which she couldn't learn without the talent)

As for lost weaves - I dislike the idea that because some weaves are lost or rare that one cannot learn them - somebody discovered how to balefire - heck most offensive weaves were developed soley in the War of Power. The ability to heal stilling was independently discovered by channelers who figured things out for themselves. As such it would perhaps serve to allow wilders to puzzle such weaves out and learn them after level 10 or so but make such expirimentation much riskier (Balefire could be fatal if screwed up, and we already now that there are differences in the way that males and females make gateways...when Moggy taught Egwene how to make a gateway she told Eg that if a female tried to use the male method - it would almost certainly be fatal. Thus It should require a weavesight check higher than it would to learn it by watching - take the base check for learning it from another. Add say a base 2 to the DC, For each affinity required by the weave that your character does have reduce the DC by one, for each one he/she does not increase the DC by 2. If a wilder with affinities in Spirit and Earth tried to puzzle out balefire he would subtract 2 for his affinities, and add 6 for those he lacked, he adds 2 to the DC for trying to puzzle the weave out instead of watching another for a total mod of + 6 to the normal DC, further those who fail the weavesight face a disaster On a 01-30 nothing happens, on 31-60 make a check as one who overchanneled, on 61-00 the spell backfires (offensive spells take effect on the character, Mind affecting spells Drain d2 int, wis,and cha (will save vs. weave dc) other spells collapse on the caster fort vs. weave dc or die)
These numbers should be adjusted as neccessary

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drothgery
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posted September 22, 2002 06:51 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
It's very nearly inconcievable that a female PC channeler would discover a lost/rare weave on her own and then die before teaching anyone else. This would cause serious continuity problems. Sorry.

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Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
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Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jkol the Butcher
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posted September 23, 2002 06:03 AM      Profile for Jkol the Butcher   Email Jkol the Butcher    Edit/Delete Post
Moraine Knew balefire - how many people did she teach? Nynaeve might have learned some of it - but that is not certain. Further, before Egwene it was standard practice in the white tower for an Aes Sedai to keep her secrets to herself. Quite to the contrary it is quite concievable for some Aes Sedai to have learnt a weave - and not passed it on for manouevering power. Further because so many lost weaves are forbidden (ie Compulsion, such research is heavily frowned upon - Morianne herself said she'd be still just for knowing balefire, and Most wilders have any talent/minor compulsion weaves stamped out of them pretty quickly. I put it to you that the reason so many lost/rare weaves remain so is the politics and traditions of the tower act to prevent them from being rediscovered - not because they cannot be rediscovered through expirimentation - Both bond warder and the Ability to heal gentling are weaves that have come about since the breaking because of such expirimentation. - Verin has discovered a crude form of compulsion - and knows how to use portal stones (a travel weave) but cannot channel enough to use them. Morianne is ample demonstation enough that Balefire can be rediscoved - in terms of continuity what else do you want?

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Freya
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posted September 25, 2002 12:14 PM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
Jkol, channelers don't need a Talent to learn a weave within that Talent. They only need to make the weavesight test to learn the weave; they need the Talent to use the weave.

What that means is that a channeler could potentially learn any weave, even balefire, by virtue of a weavesight test, but just not have the strength or ability to use it themselves (not have the associated Talent or high enough weave slot).

Nyneave and Egwene were both present when Moiraine used balefire on Bel'al; Nyneave made the weavesight test, Egwene did not. (Nyneave, we assume, gained the Balefire Talent soon after) Does that mean Egwene will never know Balefire? Or, that Nyneave will be the last after Moiraine to know it? Of course not. On both accounts.

Yes, it's true that some Aes Sedai are known to have 'figured out' some weaves...but they were always very low difficulty or 'watered-down' versions of the real weave. Moiraine's eavesdropping is low level, something a beginning channeler can learn. Verin's and Liandrin's Compulsion is a watered-down version of Real Compulsion as shown by Moggy.

As for the 'politics' of keeping rare/lost weaves hidden...*shrug* I'm sure there are some like that, but in all the cases we have seen, the weaves in question probably go against Tower law. Again, things like eavesdropping or compulsion. Both would be looked upon with disgust. If anyone discovered a weave of great significance, like Traveling, I'd think they would announce it to the whole Tower. Think of the boost that Aes Sedai's Ajah would get within the Tower? The boasting? The prestige of being the first person since the Breaking to discover x? Said channeler would be the toast of the Tower for quite a while. At least, that's what I think. I'm sure many people think otherwise. [Wink]

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felicia
AKA Freya Culadin

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drothgery
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posted September 25, 2002 01:04 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Err...

Neither Nynaeve nor Egwene saw Moiraine use balefire on Be'lal; Mat and Jullin had just broken them out of the dungeon.

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Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

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Freya
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posted September 25, 2002 01:44 PM      Profile for Freya      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by drothgery:
Err...

Neither Nynaeve nor Egwene saw Moiraine use balefire on Be'lal; Mat and Jullin had just broken them out of the dungeon.

You are correct....I cited the wrong scene. There was a scene though, where Moiraine used Balefire ('a white hot rod') and Egwene and Nyneave were present. (against the Shadowhounds?) Specifically because I remember Nyneave thinking that must be Balefire, and Egwene thinking that she couldn't follow the complicated weaving. Soon after, Nyneave used it against some Myrddhal. [Blush]

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felicia
AKA Freya Culadin

From: dallas,tx | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
drothgery
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posted September 25, 2002 06:40 PM      Profile for drothgery      Edit/Delete Post
Egwene thought both 'that must be balefire' and that she didn't follow the weaving in TDR when Nynaeve balefired the three Fades who were working with the brigands that kidnapped the girls after their boat was stuck.

--------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com/
Optional d20 WoT Rules at http://home.san.rr.com/drothgery/wot_rpg.htm

From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged


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