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Author Topic: Sword Forms and D20 (Long) version 2.0
Steve Russell
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Member # 130579



posted April 21, 2003 04:43 AM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
The following was inspired by the Sword Forms by Juggy4711 found at call of the horn

http://mabinogin.com/Sword_Forms.htm

THE Weapon FORMS OF THE WHEEL OF TIME. ver2.0 [by: juggy4711 Dedicated to The Jerky Boys and the Hucklebuck] (modified by steven russell)

Prerequisite: +5 Base Attack Bonus, Weapon Focus
Special: Teacher who knows the form.

The Concetration DC to learn and use a Weapon Form is 20+ double the form’s level. The character rolls d20+concentration modifier+blademaster level versus the DC. A faliure by 5 or more results in a -5 penalty to the attack action for the remainder of the round and provokes an attack of opportunity.

The use of a Weapon Form is a free action (limit one per attack action)

Weapon Forms per day
you can gain the benifits of a weapon form Based on Table 3-5 (Inititate Weaves) with bonuses forms per day for Dex or Wisdom (but not both) Effective level is equal to BAB for purposes of determinging forms per day

A character’s Dexterity or Wisdom -10 is the highest-level form that a character can use or learn.

Notes
(Name): the name of a form can be different from place to place especially if the weapon form that is taught is not a sword.

Requirement: this sword form cannot be executed though it can be learned without the requried skill, feat, class ability or action being preformed.

Description: What a character must be capable of doing to perform the attack. Stances have a duration on 1 round per equivelent level,

Benifits:

Readied action with sword forms: The DM secretly rolls the form you recieve the penelties or benifits of the form on your next attack (only a trick form such as Sheath the Sword can be used in conjunction with another sword form).

The dodge benefit should be considered a dodge bonus to armor class that a character receives during a round in which they employ that form. This bonus only applies to attacks from the opponent selected as a dodge target (see Dodge feat) and only those that occur after they have worked the form. When a character works more than one form in a round providing a dodge bonus, the higher of the two is used.

The bonuses to hit and damage are applicable only for the one attack the character used to work that form.

Forms that provide Initiative bonuses can only be used at the beginning of a round and count against your first attack and are Circumstance bonuses.

Skill bonuses apply for the entire round and are circumstance bonuses.

Weapon Forms
Level 1

Unfolding the Fan
requirment (Quick Draw)
The sword drawing technique. The blade is smoothly drawn with an overhead slashing attack that leads to a guard stance, all in one motion
Benefit: +1 Initiative (used at the beginning of the round

Boar Rushes Down the Mountain
The Boar Rushes Down the Mountain
Requirement (Charge Attack)
A vertical slash, but one that can alter course in midswing quickly.
Starts high and ends low. Try this with Tower of Morning.
Benefit: +2 hit -2damage

Cat Crosses the Courtyard
Requirement (Mobility)
Not a sword-form or stance, but a method of movement which maximizes
alertness and reaction potential. Weight should be on the balls of the feet,
with head held high and eyes constantly shifting, watching for threats. Arms
and hands should freely move, not in pockets or holding items. Each step
should be taken confidently, but not hurriedly.
Benefit: +1 hit, +1 spot, +1 listen

Cat Dances on the Wall
Requirement (Feinting, use of Expertise or fighting defensively in attacks)
A feinting, tentative series of short slashes, thrusts, and parries. The swordsman must have good wrists and quick feet for this to be effective. Useful for buying time.
Benefit: +1 Damage +1 Bluff when feinting

Tower of the Morning
Requirement (Move and 1 Attack can sometimes be a feint)
A vertical slash, starting low and ending high. Often paired with Boar Rushes Down the Mountain or The Courtier Taps His Fan. Benefit: +1 dodge , when used as a Spring Attack +2 hit



Level 2

Moon Rises Over the Water
Requirement (Expertise)
A vertical arc after a horizontal, tentative slash. The blade should begin and end in the same position - near the waist.
Benefit: +2 Initiative

The Wind and the Rain
Requirement (Power Attack, blademaster classs ability parting the silk)
Another complicated form, begun with either Low Wind Rising or Parting the Silk, this form follows through with multiple short thrusts or quick overhand blows.
Benefit: +2hit +1 dodge -2dam

Ribbon in the Air
Requirement (Whirlwind attack)
Horizontal slashes that may change direction up or down at the tail end.Should be begun just below chest height. Both feet should be used in this form, unlike the Heron forms.
Benefit: +1hit +2damage

Cat on Hot Sand
Requirement (Use of Experitse or Fighting Defensibly)
A faster, less tentative version of The Cat Dances on the Wall, better forMultiple opponents.
Benefit: +1 hit +1 dodge

Stones Falling from the Cliff
Stones Falling from the Cliff (Power attack, Expetise )
The medium difficulty version of Boar Rushes Down the Mountain. A good mainstay of a battle, this form is useful for both parrying and attacking. The sword should begin at least at shoulder height and come down.
Benefit: +1 Dodge +2 damage, (when used as a Power Attack + 3 damage)



Level 3

The Swallow Takes Flight
Requirement (Improved Initative, costs 2 attack actions)
Basically, Low Wind Rising followed by a short thrust. The form is angled more toward the opponent, though, so that the opening slash is more a guard for the thrust.
Benefit: +2 Initiative +1 hit

Heron Wading in the Rushes
Requirement (Balance 5 ranks, see sheathing the Sword,)
This form should only be used for practicing balance. It is
possible to use this form in combat, but it is highly likely you will receive your opponent's weapon in your chest before you take his head. A horizontal, pivoting slash done on one foot. Begun at shoulder or head height.
Benefit: Flat footed, +10 to Dmg, +1 balance

Leopard in the Tree
Requirement(dodge, Exotic weapon proficency warder’s sword or Great Sword)
A preliminary form, begun with both hands on the hilt of the sword, knees bent, and leaning forward in a ready position..
Benefit: +2 hit

Parting the Silk
Requirement (Class ability blademaster)
A more controlled slash, probably used as a precision block or strike. Directed at the abdomen, a good move to draw first blood or inflict nonlethal damage on an opponent.
Benefit: +4 damage +1 Intimidate

Wood Grouse Dances
Requirement (Experise, improved disarm, improved trip,)
Similar to the Cat Dances on the Wall, but from a more stationary point. Mainly to feel out an enemy, more than to do serious harm.
Benefit: +2 Dodge bonus, +4 when used to perform a Disarm or Trip



Level 4

Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose
Requirement (Improved Initiative, Improved Critical or Class ability blademaster)
An opening move. A quick thrust in the face. Will at least deter an opponent, and will usually kill a charging opponent outright. Blade should start from shoulder height, though it may be performed from any level less quickly.
Benefit: +2 Initiative +1 hit +2 damage



Tower of Sunset(Power Attack, Expertise)
A vertical slash, starting high and ending low.
Benefit: +3 hit +1 dodge -4 damage



Leaf Floating on the Breeze
Requirement (Expertise )
A horizontal guard position with a form similar to The Falling Leaf. The blade will move up and down according to the threat while moving horizontally to offer new threats. A good basic form. Attacks from this position should include Lightning of Three Prongs and Lizard in the Thornbush.
Benefit: +1 hit +4 damage



Courtier Taps His Fan
Requirement(Power Attack)
A quick, powerful overhand blow, meant to split the head. A good move for anyone to have in his repetoire.
Benefit: +2 damage +2 hit



Whirlwind on the Mountain
Requirement (5 ranks Tumble, charge attack)
A form of Thistledown Floats on the Whirlwind, except done while remaining on the ground. Can be modified for use for striking uphill or downhill simply by changing the angle of the spin. The sword also is extended further than with Thistledown Floats on the Whirlwind.
Benefit: +2 parry +1damage, +1 tumble, when used as a Cleave +5damage



Level 5

The Falcon Dives
Requirement (Improve Initiative)
An opening move that is basically, The Swallow Takes Flight with a deeper thrust. The form is angled more toward speed, though, so that the opening slash is more a thrust than a guard.
Benefit: +3 Initiative

Lion on the Hill
Requirement (dodge)
A basic guard stance, with the sword held at shoulder height ready to move
into a variety of other forms.
Benefit: +3 hit +2 dodge -4 dam age

The Falling Leaf
Requirement (Expertise, Whirlwind attack)
A more exaggerated and slower version of The Boar Rushes Down the Mountain. Starting high, the blade sweeps back and forth before reaching its lowest point. Can be used to parry effectively against multiple opponents, or just one. Move from this straight into The River Undercuts the Bank or The Wind Blows over the Wall, and you've got an effective pair.

Benefit: +2 hit +2 dodge

Bundling Straw
(Expertise, Power Attack)
Several quick chest-level thrusts, followed by an arc and a paired return arc that should return the blade to a guard stance. Try this against aquarterstaff opponent.
Benefit: + 6 damage



Grapevine Twines
Requirement(Improved Disarm)
A circular motion when blades are locked, used to disarm an opponent.
Benefit: +3 dodge, +4 dodge when used to perform Disarm



Level 6

Arc of the moon
Requirement (Improved Initative, Power attack, Expertise )
A simple opening slash, meant to take off an opponent's head. Probably begins at mid body level, arcs to neck, and ends back at a guard stance.
Benefit: +3 Int +1hit



Moon Rises Over the Water
Requirement (5 ranks bluff, power attack)
A vertical arc after a horizontal, tentative slash. The blade should begin
and end in the same position - near the waist.
Benefit: +4 hit -6 damage +1 bluff when fienting



Swallow Rides the Air
Requirement (Spring Attack)
The guard stance assumed after performing The Swallow Takes Flight. More
of an on-the-run stance, made for attacking or defending while mobile.
Benefit: +3 hit

Lizard in the Thornbrush
Requirement (costs 3 atttack actions)
Used expressly against two opponents. One thrust to the chest, then pivot
and kneel with either a thrust or a slash, usually a thrust. Good mid-level
technique; most veteran-level soldiers have mastered this form.
Benefit: +1 hit +6 damage

Boar Rushes Downhill
Requirement (Power Attack, Expertise, )
A diagonal slash, but one that never alters course. Often used in a charge
Starts high and ends low.
Benefit: +3 dodge + 1dam, if used as a Charge +2hit +4 dam


Level 7

Kingfisher Takes a Silverback
Requirement(5 ranks of bluff, Improved Initative Improved Trip)
Begun while the sword is at shoulder height or higher, a downward stab for the abdomen. Begun when the sword is lower than shoulder height, a downward stab meant to cripple a leg or the groin.
Benefit: +4 Initiative , +1 trip attack, +1 bluff when fienting

Water Flows downhill
Requirement (Cleave)
A more complicated form of The Boar Rushes Down the Mountain. This form can and will change direction in midstroke; only the more advanced swordsmen use this form. Like its name, it takes the easiest route from high to low, avoiding contact with the other weapon while seeking its target.
Benefit +2hit +4 damage


Lightning of Three Prongs
Requirement (Combat Reflexes)
Beginning from a basic stance like Lion on the Hill, a thrust that can either continue as a thrust or slash to either side. Can also be used to parry.
Benefit: +4 hit +1 dodge -6 damage

Striking the Spark
Requierement (power attack max)
A rapid series of powerful overhand blows, best begun on the return swing of a slash like Low Wind Rising or The Heron Spreads Its Wings. If you've got stamina this can win a battle for you.
Benefit: +3 hit +2 damage

River Undercuts the Bank
The River Undercuts the Bank (Power Attack)
Can be done from a kneeling or standing position. A horizontal slash, used to disembowel or behead.
Benefit: +3 dodge +2 damage, when the target is helpless +10 damage


Level 8

Cutting the Clouds
Requirement (Parting the Silk Class ability blademaster)
A lightning quick slash, used as a opening strike. Directed at the head, a good move to draw first blood or cut a wisp of hair.
Benefit: +4 Initiative +1 hit, +1 to Intimidate,

Falcon Stooping
The Falcon Stoops (Power Attack,Experitse)
An abbreviated version of The Kingfisher Takes a Silverback. A quick overhand thrust, returning to a guard position just as quickly.
Benefit: +4 hit +2 dodge -6 damage

Thistledown floats on the Whirlwind
Requirement ( 5 ranks Tumble 5 ranks jump charge attack)
A short-range jumping spin-swipe, used for beheading. Best if done by surprise. An opening move in most cases, the sword should not move more than a foot or so; the main force is provided by the spin of the body. The blade should not extend too far out from the body, and be approximately chest high.
Benefit: +2 hit +6 damage +1 tumble, +1 Jump

Low Wind Rising
Requirement (Mobility)
Can be done from almost any stance - even sitting. A diagonal slash, beginning low and rising cleanly. May be used to return to a guard stance after a form such as The Grapevine Twines or Lightning of Three Prongs.
Benefit: +3 hit + 4 damage


Twisting the Wind (Whirlwind attack)
For use in a tight situation, when one is outnumbered. A quick, continual rotation of the body, using slashes and short thrusts to counter or attack as the situation dictates.
Benefit: +3 dodge +2 damage +1 hit, when used while fighting on the defensive +4 dodge bonus


Level 9

The Rose Unfolds
Requirement (Quick Draw, combat reflexes)
This sword drawing technique is used when approached by multiple opponents. It often catches opponents off-guard often parried with the Heron spreads its wings.
Benefit: +5 Initiative

Soft Rain at Sunset
Requriement (Improved Disarm)
A master’s or instructor’s form not often used, this is a strike at unguarded vital areas more used more for embarressment than for acctual combat.
Benefit: +5 hit -6 damage

The Heron Spreads Its Wings
Requirement (Class skill blade master)
The operational version of Heron Wading in the Rushes. A tighter cut,concentrated in one sector of the arc of the sword.
Benefit: +3 hit +6 damage

Kissing the Adder
Requriement ( 5ranks sense motive Expertise)
Another masters’s or instructor’s form not often used, this is a strike based on an understanding of combat and the opponent.
Benefit: +3 hit + 3 dodge

Apple Blossoms on the Wind
Requirement (Combat Reflexes)
A versatile technique, intended for use against an ambush by multiple opponents. The blade is held low, but ready for use in a number of strike forms. Keep loose and move slowly.
Benefit: +3 Dodge +3 damage

Secret Sword form Technique Taught by some Masters
Sheathing the Sword
By Jeff Grygiel (modifed by steven russell)
Sometimes there is something so important, you are willing to sheath a sword in your own body.

Use costs the 2 Highest slots achieved by the practitioner.

Prerequisite: Weapon Specailization

Description: More of a concept than a sword-form, this is used when what you can gain is greater than or equal to what you may lose in the process of gaining it. This might be using Heron Wading in the Rushes like Rand al'Thor, or it might be using Lizard in the Thornbush to take down two major opponents when you know a third, less important one is coming up behind you.

Benefit: The player declares use of this sword form against an enemy and assuming a stance (Which stacks) waits to be attacked by that opponent. After the opponent attacks, the PC immediately gets an attack on his attacker even if his hit points have dropped below 0 because of the attack on him.

Special: While waiting for your opponent to attack, you are prone to attacks of opportunity since you have dropped your defenses. If these attacks drop you below 0, you fall unconscious normally and do not get your Sheathing the Sword attack.Your opponent gets a +2 bonus to hit, +4 bonus to damage, and a doubled critical hit range. You get a +3 bonus to hit, +6 bonus to damage, and a tripled critical hit range.

[ April 24, 2003, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Steve Russell ]

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I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Moon-Hawk
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Member # 107830



posted April 21, 2003 06:13 AM      Profile for Moon-Hawk      Edit/Delete Post
Wow, I really like it. Particularly the penalties for failing the check by 5 or more, it adds an element of risk and therefore game balance that most sword forms systems lack.
I have a couple questions/suggestions, though. First, a couple of the forms say they work well with or after other forms, but only one is allowed per attack action. Or like Lizard in the Thornbush, that requires multiple actions. How exactly does this work with single attack actions vs. full attack. What bonus are the two attacks at (0 and -5 for the first and second attack, 0 and -10 since it takes 3, both a full, I'm not sure)? What about the character's fourth attack (if they have one) is it at -10 or -15 (since it's their fourth attack, but really only the third) Can different forms be used with each of the attacks in the full attack? A couple of examples might be good here, just to make sure everyone understands.
Question about number of forms per day. What levels is that based on? Total character level? Levels in a certain class? Effective level equal to BAB for purposes of determinging forms per day? (I kinda like the last option)
Also, I might suggest that forms like Cat Crosses the Courtyard gain slightly longer duration. Like, until the user takes an action other than a move action, or until the user attacks, or something; because that's a form that can be used for a fairly long time (minutes, as opposed to seconds) as long as you're only walking around.
Another point to clarify: Learning the forms. How often can the check be made? Can the student take 10? 20?
Heron Wading in the Rushes: The character drops their defenses, becoming flat footed. Got it. Does this act provoke an attack of opportunity? It seems to me that it should, considering the description and intention of the form, but it's not stated. Then, if that were being combined with Sheathing the Sword, I would expect that attack of opportunity would count as the attack they were waiting for.
Speaking of Sheathing the Sword: It has no level, I understand, but what is the DC to learn? One other slight issue with it: Considering the case of two practitioners, one fairly inexperienced one uber-master, both know this form. The inexperienced kid can use this form by expending two of the highest slots he knows, probably 1st or 2nd level. Say, now, that the experienced guy has used all his 9th and 8th level slots on other things, but he still has 7th level slots free and all the way down. He can't use this form, because he's already used his highest, even though what he has left is WAY higher than what the kid has, for the same bonus? What I'm saying is: perhaps it should use the two highest slots that you have remaining for the day, not the two highest that you have learned. That way you can still use it at the end of a big fight, having used your cool slots already.
Finally, BAB requirement. I like it, but should it also vary by form level? It seems like a level 9 form should require a higher BAB (in addition to the other requirements) than a level 1 form. Something like BAB 2+level of form or something like that.
Okay, all that said, I want to remind that I really like this system. It's the first weapon form system that I've seriously considered using in one of my campaigns.
Very nice, thanks for taking the time to write all that up.

[ April 21, 2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Moon-Hawk ]

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I've learned too many systems. Sometimes I even forget which system is the REAL world uses. Uh-oh.

Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moon-Hawk
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Member # 107830



posted April 21, 2003 07:19 AM      Profile for Moon-Hawk      Edit/Delete Post
Something I forgot to mention. This is a great way to make your channeler character more effective in combat, since they will already have a high concentration and wisdom. In particular, many people have complained that thier Asha'man characters can not fight well enough. Use of these sword forms can help this very much. The same would apply to Aes Sedai, particularly the Green Ajah (the battle ajah)
They still wouldn't have the combat feats to get lots and lots of forms like a blademaster would, but they could get a few, it would help.
This is another reason I suggest the BAB bonus requirement should depend on sword form level.

--------------------
I've learned too many systems. Sometimes I even forget which system is the REAL world uses. Uh-oh.

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Ghaerdon Fain
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posted April 21, 2003 09:23 AM      Profile for Ghaerdon Fain   Email Ghaerdon Fain    Edit/Delete Post
Not much new about Sword Forms... but they do bread controversy: intelectual property issues ( [ROFL] ).

Great idea and I'm glad you brought it back.

Check out my site (in sig) under Sword Form tables to see previous work on this. It seems that they are no where to be seen except for on my colated table; especially as UtDB lite is no longer availuable.

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"My Brother? By the Light, I've never seen this darkfriend before!"
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From: Basse Cote Nord, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ghaerdon Fain
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posted April 21, 2003 09:30 AM      Profile for Ghaerdon Fain   Email Ghaerdon Fain    Edit/Delete Post
Lots of yeast in that "bread" of controversy [ROFL] [ROFL] [ROFL] [ROFL] [ROFL]

Sorry 'bout that; the word is "breed".

--------------------
"My Brother? By the Light, I've never seen this darkfriend before!"
Go to my "Tiny Wheel of Time"; http://pages.globetrotter.net/pastor/wot.html

From: Basse Cote Nord, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sharn_Penndroen
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posted April 21, 2003 12:53 PM      Profile for Sharn_Penndroen   Email Sharn_Penndroen    Edit/Delete Post
To reiterate Moon-Hawk's question, for purposes of calculating sword-form slots per day do you use Character Level or Blademaster Class Level. I would assume that you use Character level as otherwise it would be impossible to achieve 9th level sword forms with only 10 levels of Blademaster. But we all know what Assuming makes us. [Smile]

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A man who will not die to save a woman is no man. - Shienaran Saying

The Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home. - Shienaran Funeral Ceremony

From: Brookhaven, MS | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gray Skwid
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posted April 21, 2003 01:04 PM      Profile for The Great Gray Skwid   Email The Great Gray Skwid    Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sharn_Penndroen:
But we all know what Assuming makes us. [Smile]

[Evil Smirk]
Luckily, my name's not Ming...

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Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
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http://www.thehumblest.net/
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From: The Big D | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
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posted April 21, 2003 01:51 PM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
"Wow, I really like it. Particularly the penalties for failing the check by 5 or more, it adds an element of risk and therefore game balance that most sword forms systems lack."

Thank you that was something I searched for a non feat based sword form system that did not overbalance a campaign

"First, a couple of the forms say they work well with or after other forms, but only one is allowed per attack action."
this has to do with interpretation and translation for Robert Jordan's sword forms to kenjutsu forms I have studied. Plus research on sword form websites it has little to do with game mechanics.

"Or like Lizard in the Thornbush, that requires multiple actions. How exactly does this work with single attack actions vs. full attack.".

Ok this is where confusion sets in.

lets say you have a full attack action with three attacks you could attack with Lizard in the Thorn brush you gain the bonus of +1attack/+6 dmg for all three attacks but other wise it is a standard full attack action (ie cumulative -5 to each attack after first). (also it only costs you one slot and you only roll once but it used up your next 3 attack actions for sword forms.)

Remember using a sword form is a free action the cost refers to the number of free actions using that particualr sword form.

"Can different forms be used with each of the attacks in the full attack?"

of courses but only one for each attack

"Question about number of forms per day. What levels is that based on?"
Sorry Big screw up on my part

Effective level is equal to BAB for purposes of determinging forms per day

I will have to edit that in the post

"I might suggest that forms like Cat Crosses the Courtyard gain slightly longer duration."
I see your point I will have to think on modifing those forms that are stances...

"Learning the forms. How often can the check be made?"
you cannot retry a form untill you gain new ranks in Concetration. Just as if you had failed to learn a weave.

"Can the student take 10? 20?"
becaue there is no retry and thier is a penelty for faliure you cannot take a 10 or 20 when using sword forms.

"Heron Wading in the Rushes: The character drops their defenses, becoming flat footed. Got it. Does this act provoke an attack of opportunity"

Think of the Rules a flat footed character does not provoke an attack of opportunity unless the oposing character has opportunist or Expert Tactican, but he does not get an attack untill his next initiative (unless he has combat reflexes and he gains an attack of opportunity, or he has a readied action.)

Speaking of Sheathing the Sword:

Seathing the sword is not a form its a trick, a secret technique in USA Kung fu theatre you would call this a finishing move. When an Insturctor thinks you are ready he will teach you this technique the two highest are determined when you learn the technique. they stay the same two slots later

The Idea hear is GM's could Make other Secret Techniqes like Frank Miller's Ronin sheathing the sword where someone grabs you from behind and you sheath the sword through your own body to stab the man behind you

"BAB requirement. I like it, but should it also vary by form level?"

No because thier are enough other prerequisites to balance this out without the crutch of BAB which people use to often as a yard stick for feats and prestige classes. the only reason to have it is to not unbalance low level since sword forms are a high end skill.

take for example two forms one 1st level the other 6th level

Cat Crosses the Courtyard
Requirement +5 BAB, Weapon Focus, Dodge,Mobility

A 10th level channeler taking martial weapon proficency longsword, weapon focus longsword , dodge, and mobility,and no other general feats can complete this first level form. Concentration DC 22 to learn and use the form. the channeler needs to roll a 9 or better not including bonuses or penalties for Con.


Boar Rushes Downhill
Requirement +5 BAB, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Expertise,

again a channeler at 10 level could at 10th level take use this form. but he would need to roll a Con DC 32 but the equivelent level Base attack Bonus limits the Characters availible forms to 3rd level so he cannot gain the benifits of working the form.

Also the character is limited by his stats. He can be a 20th level armsman but if his Dex and Wis are 10 then he cannot learn a single form.

Cat Crosses the Courtyard
Requirement (Mobility)

Example: high end min/max NPC the old man
The Old man NPC I have listed on the boards uses this in the following fashion

Power Atacks each round: +17/+12/+7/+2, 27 points dmg 17-20*3 every first hit (part silk/multiplier, eyes of the crane)

+36 to Concetration check to use sword forms
Round 1
Begining of the Round quick drawing his weapon he uses his first attack action to work the form The Rose Unfolds level 9 (DC 38) +5 Initiative, on his initiative he attacks with at +17.

after his first attack he works the form The Heron Spreads Its Wings level 9 DC 38 uping his attack and dmg and he uses it to Whirlwind attack as a standard attack action employing his class ability. +15 to hit +33 to dmg.

Next he works the form the swallow rides the Air DC 32, +10 attack roll

Last he works the form the Falcon Stooping level 8
DC 36 Benefit: +4 hit +2 parry -6 damage so that his last attack might hit.a pc who is still flat footed.

quote:
"Okay, all that said, I want to remind that I really like this system. It's the first weapon form system that I've seriously considered using in one of my campaigns. Very nice, thanks for taking the time to write all that up."
Thank you that is the highest praise someone can get "someone using it in thier campaign."

quote:
intelectual property issues
I am very confused [Confused] the only people who have intellectual property rights to any of this material are Robert Jordan, and WoTC if they don't then it would be OGL. Personaly I say as long as you give credit, you cannot be plagerizing.

[ April 22, 2003, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Steve Russell ]

--------------------
I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Moon-Hawk
Member
Member # 107830



posted April 23, 2003 09:59 AM      Profile for Moon-Hawk      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks. Most of my questions are answered. Remember, everything I say is a suggestion, not me telling you how to write your system. (this comment is directed less at you, Steve(I know you know this already), but more at people who start flame wars over nothing) I want to go over a couple, though, for crystal clarity.
"lets say you have a full attack action with three attacks you could attack with Lizard in the Thorn brush you gain the bonus of +1attack/+6 dmg for all three attacks but other wise it is a standard full attack action (ie cumulative -5 to each attack after first). (also it only costs you one slot and you only roll once but it used up your next 3 attack actions for sword forms.)"
So if you had a fourth attack, say you're at +17/+12/+7/+2 you could use Lizard in the Thornbrush to make one attack at +18 attack and +6 damage, and that one attack roll would apply to both targets, and then you could still make one leftover attack at +2? It seems really odd to me that it is impossible to hit one and miss the other using this form. Should it maybe be two attacks at +18 and +6 damage, with one at +2 afterward? This way, you're trading three attacks at cumulative 0/-5/-10 for two attacks at 0/0. See what I mean about one roll resolving two hits? It's kinda weird, but maybe I misunderstand.
For Heron Wading in the Rushes, you said:
"Think of the Rules a flat footed character does not provoke an attack of opportunity unless the oposing character has opportunist or Expert Tactican, but he does not get an attack untill his next initiative "(emphasis mine) So when you use this form, you don't actually get to attack until your next round? If so, that needs to be stated in the description, since all others take effect instantly.
Also, if forms per day is based on BAB, and BAB is required to be +5, no one will ever function at effective level 1-4, just all of a sudden they hit BAB+5 and can do third level forms, without previously having been able to do any forms? Maybe the BAB+5 should be dropped alltogether, since weapon form ability is already dependent on BAB. True, for low BAB characters they gain access to a couple low level forms, but that's not so terrible. Above BAB+5 it makes no difference anyway. It prevents there being a large leap in ability from BAB+4 to BAB+5
Sheathing the Sword: It's a trick, so learning it doesn't use a forms known slot? That's cool, I like that. I stil think that it should just use the two highest slots that you have remaining at the time, though, since this is not a technique that anyone plans on using ahead of time and saves slots for. It is used only in desperation, which usually means you've used most of your form slots on other things already. It seems like something you should pretty much always be able to do as long as you have just a little bit left in you, since that's precisely when you'd want to use it.
Finally: "I am very confused the only people who have intellectual property rights to any of this material are Robert Jordan, and WoTC if they don't then it would be OGL. Personaly I say as long as you give credit, you cannot be plagerizing." I think you can use whatever you want provided you 1) give credit, and 2) do not make any money from it. I'm not sure about this, though, I'll ask a lawyer buddy of mine and get back to you.
Once again, thanks for answering all of my questions, I hope I'm not being too thick-skulled. [Confused] I definitely plan to use this is my next WoT campaign.

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I've learned too many systems. Sometimes I even forget which system is the REAL world uses. Uh-oh.

Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Steve Russell
Member
Member # 130579



posted April 24, 2003 08:50 AM      Profile for Steve Russell   Email Steve Russell    Edit/Delete Post
"not me telling you how to write your system."

You can only improve through critizism. If you did not want critizism you should not have posted it.

"for crystal clarity."

Sorry always foggy here. [Smile]

"So if you had a fourth attack, say you're at +17/+12/+7/+2 you could use Lizard in the Thornbrush to make one attack at +18 attack and +6 damage, and that one attack roll would apply to both targets, and then you could still make one leftover attack at +2?"

yes and that +2 attack you could use a form.

"It seems really odd to me that it is impossible to hit one and miss the other using this form. Should it maybe be two attacks at +18 and +6 damage, with one at +2 afterward? This way, you're trading three attacks at cumulative 0/-5/-10 for two attacks at 0/0. See what I mean about one roll resolving two hits? It's kinda weird, but maybe I misunderstand."

You did! you still have to roll to hit twice but you but you only have to roll the concetration check to gain the benifits of the form once.

"So when you use this form, you don't actually get to attack until your next round? If so, that needs to be stated in the description, since all others take effect instantly."

No all others take affect on the next attack, you can always ready an action, if it is a readied attack you roll the DM secretly rolls the form.

"if forms per day is based on BAB, and BAB is required to be +5, no one will ever function at effective level 1-4, just all of a sudden they hit BAB+5 and can do third level forms, without previously having been able to do any forms?"

They can do the forms all they want they are just not good enough at doing them to gain the benifits this has to do with my extensive study in the martial arts, boxing and wrestiling. you practice for quite some time mimicing fighting but doing them in a fight is completely different than knowing the form.

It also reflects that some forms work for some people and don't for others.

This also keeps people who have not recieved training from just learning on their own, It can be done but is much more difficult because you have to make all the mistakes your teacher has already learned from.

I will make some appropriate changes to the main post.

Lastly I would like to point out that these benifits could easyly be addapted to another weapon than the sword.

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I have a reading lesson with the Lady Riselle. She lets me rest my head on her bosom while she reads to me.
-Olver

Please visit and review my Epic Level Homebrew Setting: A Brave New Worldat the Commonplace Book.

From: dayton ohio usa | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged


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