Author
|
Topic: New One Power
Channeling System |
Philosopher
Jack Member Member
# 95890
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posted July 22, 2002 10:22 PM
I have
introduced the following system into my game. The players like
the system quite a bit and, when I asked if they would like go
back to the original system, all prefered to stay with this
new one. Like I stated in an earlier post, I have been
dissatistied with the channeling system in WOT. I feel it is
too derivative of the D&D system, which is too inflexible
to truly represent the One Power. This system has not been
well tested, so I cannot speak to game balance, but I'll post
any problems I encounter as we play our campaign. The system
makes use of Ishamael's Weave Pool system, so I think him for
that. I like it a lot and, without it, I could not have
formulated this system. In the write-up, I also use two Weaves
that I found online, but I have modified them so that they use
my new system. Thank you to those of you who wrote the
original weaves. I hope you all like the system, but please
punch as many holes in it as you can. Thanks.
One
Power Channeling System By Philosopher
Jack
New ability score: All Channelers have a
new ability score called Power. Power is an overall measure of
their potential with the one power. It is generated during
character creation and may never be increased. The power may
be decreased, however, through severing and restoration. To
generate the Power ability score, roll 1D10. Player characters
receive a bonus of +1 to the roll. In addition, characters who
are deemed Ta’varen by their DM’s may also receive a +1
modifier. A power rating may never exceed 10. A character’s
power rating represents the highest level weave that she may
cast. For example, an Aes Sedai with a power rating of 7 can
only cast 7th level weaves without the aid of an angreal,
overchanneling, or by linking. A character may not cast higher
level weaves than her class level limit allows regardless of
her power level. Likewise, she may not overchannel above her
power level, except though the use of angreal or linking.
Power rating also determines how difficult a weave is to
resist. The Difficulty Class of a saving throw is 10 + weave’s
level + ˝ power rating (round up). An Aes Sedai with a power
rating of 8 would have a saving throw DC of 16 when casting a
2nd level weave (10 + 4 + 2).
Weaves granted per
level: Initiate weaves per level are determined using
table 3-5 in the WOT manual. Wilder weaves are determined by
using table 3-8. However, Ishamael’s Weave Pool system is used
to determine weaves available per day. See text below for an
explanation of the Weave Pool system (thanks
Ishamael):
Ishamael’s Weave Pool System
The
Weave Pool system functions in most ways identicle to the
system already estabolished in the Wheel of Time Role Playing
game produced by Wizards of the Coast. This system was
designed to better simulate how the One Power function in the
series of novels the game was based off of. Changes to the
existing system are as follows:
The Slot
Pool
All channeling characters have Weave Pool. The
number of slots in the pool is determined by adding up all the
slots granted under the Initiate’s and Wilder’s Weaves per day
table. The value of each slot is as fallows:
0 lvl: ˝
slot (Round down.) 5th lvl: 5 slots 1st lvl: 1 slot 6th
lvl: 6 slots 2nd lvl: 2 slots 7th lvl: 7 slots 3rd lvl:
3 slots 8th lvl: 8 slots 4th lvl: 4 slots 9th lvl: 9
slots
Example: Kale, a Wilder has three 0 level slots,
two 1st level slots, and two 2nd level slots and one 3rd level
slot. To determine his slot pool, he adds one slot from his 0
levels slots, two from his 1st level slots, four from his 2nd
level slots and 3 from his 3rd level slot. He now has a slot
pool of 10 weave slots. (1+2+4+3=10)
Casting of
Weaves
Casting of weaves is done the same way as
described in the original rules. If you want to cast a 4th
level Fireball, you simply burn 4 weave slots. The 4 slots are
deducted from the weave pool.
0 level weaves are
handled differently. The channeler may make a Concentration
check (DC:20) to attempt to weave the 0 level power at no
cost. If he fails, he must spend 1 slot. You must have at
least one slot in your pool to attempt to use a 0 level
slot.
Overchanneling and Angreals
Overchanneling
is different in that you do not have to be out of slots to
attempt it. At any time, you may attempt to overchannel to get
a higher level effect.
Example: You have a weave pool
of 10. You want to cast a 4th level Fireball. You may spend 3
slots and attempt to overchannel. If successful, you cast the
Fireball at 4th level and still have 7 weave slots in your
pool.
Angreal and Sa’angreal are not changed. You
simply get to add their level bonus to whatever your trying to
weave.
Example: You have a +2 angreal and want to cast
a 7th level weave. You need only use 5 slots. Additionally,
you may also attempt to overchannel. This could possibly
reduce the cost to 4-2 slots.
CAUTION: This system
potentially makes channeler classes much more versatile. It
was created to more accuratly imitate the One Power as it was
described in Robert Jordan’s novels and little attention was
given to game balance. Use only if you are not overly
concerned with the power level of the channeling classes in
your campagn. Gamemasters are strongly encouraged to look over
this system before letting players use it.
Bonus
weaves:
Bonus weaves are no longer detemined using
Primary Ability Stats. Instead, consult Table 1-1: Ability
Modifiers and Bonus Weaves and find the character’s power
rating in the ”Modifier” column, ignoring the ”Score” column.
This number indicates the number of bonus weaves available to
the character. For example, if an Aes Sedai has a power rating
of 4, you would read accross the +4 modifier column to find
her bonus weaves. This may result in fewer bonus weaves than
the original system, but with Ishamael’s Weave Pool system,
channelers maintain their power and versatility.
New
Feat
Overpower Weave
You can
utilize more of your raw power to prevent your targets from
resisting your weaves. Benefit: You may add +1 to the DC of
your weave, up to your maximum power level. For example, An
Aes Sedai with a power of 6 would normally have a DC of 15
when casting a 2nd level weave (10 + 2 + 3). When using
Overpower Weave, the DC is increase by one to 16. Special:
You may gain this feat multiple times as long as your DC
modifier does not exceed your power level.
Modified
Weaves:
The following are examples of new weaves
(player created) modified to use the Power Rating system.
Thanks to those who wrote these weaves.
Weave
Deflection (Warding) [Spirit] (Common) Level:
3+ Casting time: See text Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10
ft./round) Target: One weave Duration:
Instantaneous Saving throw: Special Weave resistance: No
This weave is used to deflect harmful weaves cast by other
channelers. Only weaves that directly affect objects or
people, such as Fireball, Shield or Cutting Lines of Fire may
be deflected. Stationary weaves, such as Fiery Sword, Current
or Wand of Fire may not be deflected. Weave deflection must be
cast at a level equal or greater to the weave being deflected.
To use this weave, an action must be held ready. When an
opponent casts a weave you wish to deflect, make opposing
concentration checks, where both channelers add their power
rating. If you succeed, the weave will be deflected from its
intended target. With a success of 10 or more, the weave can
be directed to a different target at the deflecting
character’s discretion. A success of 15 or more allows the
deflecting character to retarget the weave back at the
original caster. A failure means that the weave hits its
intended target.
Cut Weave (Warding) [Spirit]
(Rare) Level: See Text Casting Time: 1 action Range:
Medium (100ft + 10ft./level) Target: One weave Duration:
Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Weave Resistance: No
This weave fashions a knife made of pure Spirit and
attacks any weave it’s directed at, be they just forming,
tied-off or held. The casting level of this weave must be
higher than the weave it is used against. The weave does not
need to be identified, but you must know the weave is being
cast first. To cut a weave, make an opposing concentration
check, where both channelers add their power level. A success
instantly unravels or cuts a held or tied-off weave. If used
as a ready action to sever a weave as it is being formed, the
weave is not formed, but the weaving channeler still loses the
appropriate Weave Points. +2 Casting Levels: You may sever
a weave of the opposing gender, if you know a weave is being
formed.
From:
Bellingham, WA | Registered: Jul 2002
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WizO_Autumn
Member # 49814
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posted July 23, 2002 04:00 PM
Moved to
the One Power discussion
board
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RGaudreau
Member Member # 9806
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posted July 23, 2002 08:10 PM
The
moderator said this was moving to the One Power board, but I
didn't see it there, so I thought I'd post a couple of
comments here.
First, I think I'd recommend changing
the die roll a PC makes for the Power stat. I'd hate to be
stuck with a Power rating of 2 if I wanted to play a character
who could become a formidable channeler. Plus, the linear
nature of the roll means there are just as many people with
power 10 as there are with power 1. More, in fact, because
some people get bonuses to the roll. You might go with
something like 2d4+2 for PCs (to give a range from 4-10, with
the average being 7) and 3d4-2 for NPCs (range is from 1-10,
with the average being 5.5). Obviously, for signature NPCs,
you can set their Power at whatever you like.
Second, I'd consider using the PC's prime
stat as part of the DC calculation for resisting weaves. Sure,
more powerful weaves might be harder to resist, but so would
*more skillfully woven* weaves, and that's ultimately what a
high prime stat represents, superior skill with manipulating
the weaves. I'm not sure that 10 + stat + weave level + 1/2
Power is right, 'cause then the DCs would be off the charts,
but maybe 10 + 1/2 stat + 1/2 weave + 1/2 Power? I have no
idea if that's comparable, but I still think the PC's stat
should figure in somehow.
-------------------- Roger
Alix-Gaudreau Prodigal GM, returned to the fold
From:
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Philosopher
Jack Member Member
# 95890
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posted July 23, 2002 08:20 PM
RGaudreau,
Thank you for your response. I agree
that a player who envisions their character as a powerful
weaver would be disappointed with a low role. I'll give some
thought as to how to fix this problem. A D8 might be more
feasible for PC's, considering their bonuses.
I
considered allowing the primary stat to modify saving throws,
but I decided at the end to completely divorce the system from
ability stats. After all, there are many examples of
characters in the RJ novels who are excellent channelers, but
who obviously lack wisdom or intelligence. As for experience
being just as important as power with regard to channeling, I
agree. However, I see the PC level as their measure of
experience and skill with the OP, not their primary ability
stat.
I'll massage the numbers on the power rating a
bit and see if I can come up with something a bit more
palatable. I may, using DM's discretion, allow a re-roll on
the power rating if a player is unhappy with his result. After
all, it's about playing the role, not the power. Thanks again
for your inciteful comments.
Philosopher Jack
From:
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
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posted March 06, 2003 06:54 PM
Holy Thread
Resurection!
You could make a feat for adding more
power levels, "Skilled Weave" could give a +1 or +2 to the
power level, each number above 10 could make the weaves cost
less to cast.
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SoemanSnowlocke Member Member
# 110411
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posted March 09, 2003 09:32 PM
I was going
to use the Slot Pool system for my campaign, and was trying it
and liking it until I made a 10th level Aes Sedai NPC with 69
slots! Now that is a ton of Fireballs and other high powered
weaves! I just don't think it is balanced enough, but your
ideas do sound intersting for an alternate channeling system,
Jack.
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
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posted March 09, 2003 10:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SoemanSnowlocke: I
was going to use the Slot Pool system for my campaign, and
was trying it and liking it until I made a 10th level Aes
Sedai NPC with 69 slots! Now that is a ton of Fireballs and
other high powered weaves! I just don't think it is balanced
enough, but your ideas do sound intersting for an alternate
channeling system, Jack.
6d6+10 (16 - 46) 11 times with one 3d6+10 2d6+10 (2
- 22) 34 times
It really ain't that much. Also when
thinking of NPC's you can always assume that they don't have
their full slot pool going into a fight (think that they might
have cast other weaves earlier in the day). Also, remember
this is a "tenth level" Aes Sedai, that ain't exactly a novice
eh? Also, with a reflex based save for 1/2 it isn't as over
powering anymore.
You could balance it by making each
weave cost an extra point I guess. But this system still beats
the normal slot system, I mean how would it be possible for a
level ten Aes Sedai to cast a fireball weave yet having been
incapable to cast a simple "Heat" weave? This system I feel
represents their "power" a lot better.
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SoemanSnowlocke Member Member
# 110411
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posted March 09, 2003 11:43 PM
Oops, I
didn't mean 10 lvl Aes Sedai. She was Initiate 5/Aes Sedai 5.
But I do see your point, Aggro. Maybe I just didn't try it out
long enough?
[ March 09, 2003, 11:44 PM: Message
edited by: SoemanSnowlocke
]
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
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posted March 10, 2003 01:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by
SoemanSnowlocke: Oops, I didn't mean 10 lvl Aes
Sedai. She was Initiate 5/Aes Sedai 5. But I do see your
point, Aggro. Maybe I just didn't try it out long
enough?
Ahhh, I see the difference now.
Try it out a bit, think of it this way when
considering your characters: An Aes Sedai may very well be
quite powerfull, but from the books it seems that they don't
constantly bogart their strength purelly for battles, they use
it in offhand matters like pouring tea and heating beverages.
They use it for assessing a situation before acting. They use
the power for many things not even related to direct
combat.
Try it out a bit longer, I feel the slot pool
system really represents a charcters raw "strength" in the One
Power.
Also remember, these people wield the most
powerfull force in existence (So far as we know), I would give
them a wee bit of leeway on what they can and cannot do
BTW: did you check out my "Rush" weave?
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Ma'caldazar
Member Member # 131598
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posted March 10, 2003 11:54 PM
why not
roll power as all other stats 4d6 and take the tre best and
then subtract 8 to give a number betwean 2 and 10
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
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posted March 11, 2003 11:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ma'caldazar: why not
roll power as all other stats 4d6 and take the tre best and
then subtract 8 to give a number betwean 2 and
10
Because it would suck *** to make a male channeler and
find that he can only cast 2nd level weaves? Ability points
can't be raised very high and limiting an ability that gets
better and stronger with practice would be kinda silly
especially considering that characters become stronger in the
one power much faster than they become stronger in other
abilities.
EDIT: Whereas going by the current method
with the slot pool system more accurately represents skill and
power (the slot pool is power, the channeler level is
skill).
[ March 11, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message
edited by: Aggro - Thingy ]
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SoemanSnowlocke Member Member
# 110411
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posted March 11, 2003 10:44 PM
I think I
will use it, or at least try it out a bit longer. Thanks for
the advice .
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
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posted March 11, 2003 11:12 PM
I have a
problem with any system where the author says "This system is
more powerful but more accurately reflects the novels." That
is a unbias critique. Fact is no system will accurately
reflect the novels.
The Chaos Mage would be a good way
to do Channeling, but that is a different concept all together
(it is basicly 4 types of spells, you build them and take a
point of subdual for every 5 points in the DC if you make the
DC or if you fail the DC 1 point of real damage for every 5
points, or if you botch it, get a one, you drop to -1 hp and
take another step on The Path *shudder* you get a bonus
to the check equal to your Chaos Mage level plus charisma
modifier.)
But i happen to like the original system, it
prevents players from converting all level 0's, 1st's, and
2nd's into high level weaves, which also makes the Overchannel
ability stupid. Why risk being severed if you can just turn
your 6 level 1 weaves into a level 6 weave?
This
doesn't make channelers much more versatile. Channelers are versatile because they have a
wizards' ability to know any spell (weave in this case) and
the sorcerers' ability to spontaneously cast spells (weaves in
this case)!
It makes them more uber and make any that
TAKES a non-channeler class a fool if they play in a game with
any channeling characters or
NPC's.
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From:
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Ma'caldazar
Member Member # 131598
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posted March 12, 2003 12:04 AM
quote:
Because
it would suck *** to make a male channeler and find that he
can only cast 2nd level weaves? Ability points can't be
raised very high and limiting an ability that gets better
and stronger with practice would be kinda silly especially
considering that characters become stronger in the one power
much faster than they become stronger in other abilities.
you didn't understod me i meant that you make it one of
the orginal stat rolls then you could asign the highest to the
one power. for those not starting as chanelers or expres an
idea to multiclass later make the GM roll a d10 and if he roll
10 make him seacretly roll a one power stat.
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
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posted March 12, 2003 08:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SoemanSnowlocke: I
think I will use it, or at least try it out a bit longer.
Thanks for the advice .
the collective rejoices!
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
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posted March 12, 2003 09:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ma'caldazar:
quote:
Because it would suck *** to make a male channeler and
find that he can only cast 2nd level weaves? Ability
points can't be raised very high and limiting an ability
that gets better and stronger with practice would be kinda
silly especially considering that characters become
stronger in the one power much faster than they become
stronger in other abilities.
you didn't understod me i meant that you make it one
of the orginal stat rolls then you could asign the highest
to the one power. for those not starting as chanelers or
expres an idea to multiclass later make the GM roll a d10
and if he roll 10 make him seacretly roll a one power
stat.
But it still doesn't represent the channelers ability
to grow sronger and more skilled through use and study. The
current system (using wisdom and intelligence for the main
scores) reflects skill when coupled with advancment in levels
but doesn't really show "power", I mean, using the slot system
and lets say you have used all your level 3 spots you can now
cast blade of fire at 5th level but are too drained to cast it
at a lower level..... Whereas the slot pool system still shows the concept
of skill but also shows the concept of power and channeling it
through a person, a level 5 weave costs 5, a level 1 costs 1,
a level zero can cost zero lady luck smiles on you that day,
etc.
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
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posted March 12, 2003 01:25 PM
The way it
is now works for a game. The "new way" is a derivative of the
Power Point system, but you neglect that Psionic Power Points
are less than the sum of the spell level slots times
quantitity.
You may have tested this method with
channeler verse channeler, but what about channeler verse
non-channeler? The Non-channeler will have their *** handed to
him/her in a BIGGER sling. After a while a +1 level push is
nothing because it is low DC concentration check and it
continues to where a +2 push isn't much (Skill Emphasis
(Concentration) +3, Wilder Overchannel +5, Lvl +3 ranks,
Prestige Classes if any). Suddenly a weave level 6 fireball is
level 4 or even 3 (if they have all the affinities). This
destroys the Channeler's one weakness: they can be
overtaxxed.
And being able to do a level 0 weave at
concentration DC 20 means that a person with a +2 angreal can
cast fireball an unlimited amount of times a day (in order to
maintain, let alone acquire, any angreal, you have to be a
high enough level to keep others from taking it from you),
Level 0 weave (DC 20), +2 Angreal, heck, if they made a DC 20
check, they can make the DC 15 overchannel +1! so now you have
a Level 3 fireball at will! This is hands down the best
ability in the game, even if there there rampant Magic
Flaming, Freezing, Shocking arrows (+1d6 of each type of
elemental) because you don't even have to make a ranged touch
attack! Or someone starts getting a bit close... Ward Against
People. Fireball through it!
Why not use Mana or some
other refills during the day idea? you basicly turned a
rest-recharge system into mana points! Mana is for computer
games because those are real time games. If a spellcaster had
to wait a night to recast spells, they would suck! "Yeah, I
killed everything here... up my spells are gone, better go
back to town and sleep."
The rules are a representation
of mechanics behind a screen: Game Mechanics: Joseph
channels a level 4 fireball at the trollocs. For (4d6 + 8 fire
damage) 23 damage. Killing them. What is said:
Joseph concentrates and pulls strands of air, fire, and
spirit. He winds them together into a red bead; Joseph sends
it towards the charging trollocs and it explodes among them.
The trollocs smoldered inside the burnt circle.
My main
reason against it: It isn't needed and it unbalances an
already skewed game.
And to those of you that use the
weak arguement "Accuracy is more important than balance," any
game needs to be as balanced as possible. Every loophole will
be abused. Game Masters are important because they are
(hopefully) unbiased mediaters that will bend or break rules
to keep the game going. But WotC, and any other game company,
can't publish games that are recklessly unbalanced or the game
is no fun. All this "New One Power Channeling System" does is
make PC Channelers more Uber, it removes their one built in
deficiency, and one common deficiency. Channelers have a
limited natural ability, overchanneling can extend it but they
can only overchannel when they have no weave slots that can
successfully do it (even if they use an angreal, they can't
use a 1st level slot and a +2 angreal than overchannel +1 for
a 4th level slot if they have a 2nd open). That is the built
in deficiency. The common one is for players to play each
round like the only one in the day. That is not a game flaw,
that is a Game Master flaw to allow them to do this, as it too
removes the built in defiency. The game is already Channeler
driven! At level 2 a Wilder can use Fireball! And at level 3
they have 3rd level weave slots!
I think this board
should be renamed "Wheel of Time, A.K.A. How to make a
Channeler more Uber." This is why I avoid the Wheel of
Time board, it is filled with "variants" that ruin a good game
concept (and it actually does represent the novels a lot
[excluding the plot line of prophicies of the dragon]!).
People complaining about Wilder/Initiate multiclasses seem to
come from people that used Initiates and don't want to take a
feat and multiclass out. In fact the only thing in the game
that doesn't make sense is Intellegence powering Intiate's
channeling!
The funny thing is, that there wouldn't be
any complaints about a "bad system" if it weren't for WotC
putting this game out. Stop biting the hand that feeds
you.
[ March 12, 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited
by: JosephKell
]
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Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
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you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
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posted March 12, 2003 02:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell: The way
it is now works for a game. The "new way" has actually bend
put forth before, as a derivative of the Power Point system,
but you neglect that Psionic Power Points are less than the
sum of the spell level slots times quantitity.
You
may have tested this method with channeler verse channeler,
but what about channeler verse non-channeler? The
Non-channeler will have their *** handed to him/her in a
BIGGER sling. After a while a +1 level push is nothing
because it is low DC concentration check and it continues to
where a +2 push isn't much (Skill Emphasis (Concentration)
+3, Wilder Overchannel +5, Lvl +3 ranks, Prestige Classes if
any). Suddenly a weave level 6 fireball is level 4 or even 3
(if they have all the affinities). This destroys the
Channeler's one weakness: they can be overtaxxed.
The
rules are a representation of mechanics behind a
screen: Game Mechanics: Joseph channels a level 4
fireball at the trollocs. For (4d6 + 8 fire damage) 23
damage. Killing them. What is said: Joseph
concentrates and pulls strands of air, fire, and spirit. He
winds them together into a red bead; Joseph sends it towards
the charging trollocs and it explodes among them. The
trollocs smoldered inside the burnt circle.
::Shrug:: the way I look at a it, if a weave drains 10
units of available units, then no matter what slots you have
for what levels, it will still cost 10 units, you you can
channel 5 10 units weaves then you have effectively 50 units
at your disposal. The weave don't come from seperate limited
sources do they? Is there a different source of power for
level 1 weaves as compared to level 2 or level 5 weaves?
::Shrug:: Slot pool seems to solve this problem rather
nicely.
Der! Don't you think someone who can harden air
and toss about fire wouold have a wee bit of an edge on
someone who can't? They can always be overtaxed, just so
happens that at higher levels they are less taxed for the same
weaves. Channelers are supposed to be balanced by other
channelers, balancing by non-channelers can only be
accomplished with groups of non-channelers. Basically,
channelers are more powerful than non-channelers, this is a
fact. WoT makes it perfectly clear that non-channelers are
deathly afraid of channelers and even more-so of the male
ones. I mean, come-on, they broke the world......... that has
to count for something? Balefire anyone? why not just remove
that weave because you can destroy anyone with it. Bottom
line, Channelers are a class of their own, they are leaps and
bounds more powerfull than non-channelers.
The slot
pool system better represents a channelers abilities and
better represents their "breaking point" where they just have
no more left in them to continue. As such it is a better
system for behind the scenes rules.
EDIT: Regarding
mana
Why not? because there is no precedent for
channelers being able to recharge on a whim without resting.
This way if a channeler gets 4 hours of sleep he only
rejuvenates 50% of his total slot pool.
[ March
12, 2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Aggro - Thingy
]
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted March 12, 2003 03:14 PM
The slot
pool system allows channelers to overchannel EVERY weave! That
is like having "Weave Slot Cost Reduction"!!!!! Like having a
built in angreal.
And how do you know that it "better"
reflects the novels? The real world has game mechanics too you
know, it is all just auto-calculated for you.
The only
way to make it harder to save up points is if all the
overchannel DC's went up by 10 or even 15! And even then. The
game works great with weave slots. "If it aint broken, don't
fix it." There is no justification for changing it. Heck, I
would love to use a Wilder in D&D3! Channeling beats out
magic any day.
Even if they added an armor
channeling failure!!!! Overchanneling, spontaneous
casting, ability to learn any weave and double bonus slots
more than makes up for the Extra Affinities/Talents I must
take, heck I would be happy stuck with just Fire (or Air) and
Spirit! I would be more than a match for any wizard or
sorcerer. Able to heal, kill, destroy, travel, defend,
counterweave, trap... The only thing I couldn't do is buffing
spells... but who needs them when I can just throw level 2
fireballs all day (concentration check DC 25: +5 Wilder, +3
Skill Emphasis (Concentration), +5 wisdom modifier, 11 ranks
in Concentration = 24!)? Yes that is only 2d6 + channeler
level, but it is basicly the Innate Spell-Like Ability feat in
tome and blood (requires you to devote a spell slot 8 levels
higher to it), but rather than use up an 10th level slot
permenently, I just make a concentration check and hope I
don't get a 1! Because the only way to fail at level 8, is if
I botch (then I might be screwed), even a 2 will beat
the DC! At level 8! Now imagine a Level 14 channeler (*cough*
Rand *cough cough*) 6 levels higher.
And that is
without using the weave pool!!
Channelers own
already.
[ March 12, 2003, 07:23 PM: Message
edited by: JosephKell
]
-------------------- Instant Message me @
JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
California | Registered: Aug 2002 |
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
|
posted March 13, 2003 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell: The slot
pool system allows channelers to overchannel EVERY weave!
That is like having "Weave Slot Cost Reduction"!!!!! Like
having a built in angreal.
And how do you know that
it "better" reflects the novels? The real world has game
mechanics too you know, it is all just auto-calculated for
you.
The only way to make it harder to save up points
is if all the overchannel DC's went up by 10 or even 15! And
even then. The game works great with weave slots. "If it
aint broken, don't fix it." There is no justification for
changing it. Heck, I would love to use a Wilder in D&D3!
Channeling beats out magic any day.
Even if
they added an armor channeling failure!!!!
Overchanneling, spontaneous casting, ability to learn any
weave and double bonus slots more than makes up for the
Extra Affinities/Talents I must take, heck I would be happy
stuck with just Fire (or Air) and Spirit! I would be more
than a match for any wizard or sorcerer. Able to heal, kill,
destroy, travel, defend, counterweave, trap... The only
thing I couldn't do is buffing spells... but who needs them
when I can just throw level 2 fireballs all day
(concentration check DC 25: +5 Wilder, +3 Skill Emphasis
(Concentration), +5 wisdom modifier, 11 ranks in
Concentration = 24!)? Yes that is only 2d6 + channeler
level, but it is basicly the Innate Spell-Like Ability feat
in tome and blood (requires you to devote a spell slot 8
levels higher to it), but rather than use up an 10th level
slot permenently, I just make a concentration check and hope
I don't get a 1! Because the only way to fail at level 8, is
if I botch (then I might be screwed), even a 2 will
beat the DC! At level 8! Now imagine a Level 14 channeler
(*cough* Rand *cough cough*) 6 levels higher.
And
that is without using the weave pool!!
Channelers own
already.
How does it better reflect the novels? Channelers CAN
overchannel every single weave, but doing that comes with a
risk. I suggest you review page 163 again, overchanneling with
the system implies that they can attempt to overchannel for 2
reasons:
1. No more weave slots, this implies that in
said "slot pool system" this will only occur when all point
from the pool are expended or that you have inssuficient
points for a weave.
2. Higher level weave, this makes
the weave cost more and still carries the same risks as
normal.
Therefore, I conclude that you idea of
overchanneling is flawed.
I know that the real world
has "game mechanics" and I also understand the idea of having
a access to a source of power, imagine it like electricity,
you have say 50 killowatts a day, does it matter if you meet
that limit using light bulbs or arc welders? They both draw
from the same source, they just cost different amounts, now
would you thinkthat if you couldn't turn on a lightbulb, that
you would still be able to use an arc welder? ofcourse not. If
you can use an arc welder you obviously have enough energy
left for a few light bulbs.
once again
::Shrug::
At level 2 you don't have many fireballs and
at level 10+ you deserve to be high and mighty.
I
believe that doing it this way will better represent tha
ability to channel, I'm not concerned with balance as an GM
worth his salt will balance out high powered characters with
high powered NPCs.
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aleshandre
Member Member # 27286
|
posted March 13, 2003 12:23 PM
Hey, JK,
remember this is from a guy who in response to negative
comments about his weave to enhance physical attributes; said,
"I give a rat's ass about what the books say". some people
just want it their way no matter what...Then there are
munchkins and powergamers. ![[Wink]](Wizards_Com Boards New One Power Channeling System (1)_fichiers/wink.gif)
-------------------- Stupidity is not a
crime, so you're free to go. Normal people frighten me.
I've never heard of freinds or relatives of serial killers
saying, "He was crazy, I knew he was going to snap sooner or
later and start killing people". They always seem to say, "He
was such a nice normal young man", etc. Atleast with
crazy people, you know to watch your back! My web page, new
& improved: http://geocities.com/aleshandre@sbcglobal.net/
From:
temple,tx,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
|
posted March 13, 2003 03:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aleshandre: Hey, JK,
remember this is from a guy who in response to negative
comments about his weave to enhance physical attributes;
said, "I give a rat's ass about what the books say". some
people just want it their way no matter what...Then there
are munchkins and powergamers.
Actually my thoughts extend less to the book
and more to just the general idea of access to
power.
Why would I use the books in my discussion this
time? cause last time the entire arguement was "That isn't in
teh books!!!!". I'm not a powergamer or a munchkin, I just
think the slot system sucks *** for this character
class.
[ March 13, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message
edited by: Aggro - Thingy ]
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Mar 2003 | IP: Logged
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JosephKell
Member Member # 99447
|
posted March 13, 2003 05:10 PM
Actually
you can't overchannel every weave slot. You can only
overchannel if you don't have a slot free of that level or a
higher level slot that can be overchanneled less to get the
same effect. I know the overchanneling rules.
Example:
Level 9 Wilder has access to 0 to 6 slot weaves. 6/4/3/3/2/1/1
(does not include bonus slots)
The Wilder wants to
channel a level 6 fireball, the wilder MUST use his/her sixth
level slot first to channel the weave. After using up his or
her only 6th level weave slot, to channel another level 6
fireball, he or she may only use a 5th level slot
overchanneled once (once as in +1 level overchannel, +2 would
be twice). At no time may they overchannel a slot that isn't
their highest.
[ March 14, 2003, 02:49 PM:
Message edited by: JosephKell
]
-------------------- Instant Message me @
JonERPG on the AIMer
Visit AielManSpear
-If you cast Meteor
Swarm to avoid wasting your REALLY good spells... -If your
character sheet is longer than the Player's Handbook... -If
you have a magic item that can destroy the world...with four
charges left... -If the God of Destiny asks you what will
have next... ...you might be a Munchkin.
From:
California | Registered: Aug 2002 |
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CSBone
Member Member # 8295
|
posted March 15, 2003 06:01 AM
Philosopher
Jack, this is a neat idea, but there needs to be as serious
limiter of some variety to slow channelers down. A good
gamemaster and a good gaming group can be that limiter, but
I've seen spell point systems go bad in a hurry and a half
once a certain level of points is reached.
Not being a
wet blanket kind of guy, I have two
suggestions.
Sugestion One: Increase the point cost of
casting Weaves. The Psi Handbook idea of the next odd for cost
isn't bad. This would allow a channeler to burly through 0th
level Weaves on a DC 20 Concentration Check. Fail it and they
cost 1 point. 1st level Weaves cost 1. 2nd level Weaves cost
3. 3rd , 5 4th, 7. 5th, 9. 6th 11. 7th, 13. 8th, 15. 9th,
17...and so on. This makes the cost jump up in a hurry but let
someone beef around the lower level stuff without much
problem. There is a small breakdown in the midrange, just
because the effectiveness of certain spells is high in
comparison with the power of the weave, but my second
sugestion might fix that.
Suggestion Two: The maximum
number of points you can burn on a spell without
over-channeling is your channeler level plus your Int bonus.
If you are out of points you can't overchannel at all. If they
want extra points after they are out they can use Int and Wis
as points. Points lost in this manner heal at 1 Attribute
point per day of either one or the other. This puts some hard
stops on the abilities of channelers using your system but
gives some serious versatility in the low range. Also it gives
an overchanneling mechanic with repercussions that make the
attempt something characters will think twice about...after
all, Balefire should not be something even a high level
channeler can contemplate without
risk.
-------------------- As always, your mileage
may vary.
From:
Lancaster, New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
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Aggro - Thingy
Member Member # 130567
|
posted March 15, 2003 12:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JosephKell: Actually
you can't overchannel every weave slot. You can only
overchannel if you don't have a slot free of that level or a
higher level slot that can be overchanneled less to get the
same effect. I know the overchanneling
rules.
Example: Level 9 Wilder has access to 0 to 6
slot weaves. 6/4/3/3/2/1/1 (does not include bonus
slots)
The Wilder wants to channel a level 6
fireball, the wilder MUST use his/her sixth level slot first
to channel the weave. After using up his or her only 6th
level weave slot, to channel another level 6 fireball, he or
she may only use a 5th level slot overchanneled once (once
as in +1 level overchannel, +2 would be twice). At no time
may they overchannel a slot that isn't their
highest.
Which means that when using the slot pool system you
actually are prevented from overchanneling to an even greater
degree that that of the regualar slot system.
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